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Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

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Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  halfamo on Thu 22 Jul - 13:41

I found this finding by the CPS astounding how they can come to the conclusion that the policeman who struck Mr Tomlinson played no part in his death is amazing.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  AnnaEsse on Thu 22 Jul - 14:01

halfamo wrote:I found this finding by the CPS astounding how they can come to the conclusion that the policeman who struck Mr Tomlinson played no part in his death is amazing.

I just checked on Sky News cos that shocked me and it's true, the police officer played no part in this man's death.

Sky News

(It's persisting down here now! The Heavens have just opened up!)

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  Guest on Thu 22 Jul - 14:07

halfamo wrote:I found this finding by the CPS astounding how they can come to the conclusion that the policeman who struck Mr Tomlinson played no part in his death is amazing.

It is rather worrying isnt it. It doesnt really help in establishing public trust in the police, which appears to be at an all time low. The Raul Moat fiasco clearly indicated an anti police sentiment. The police where recently conducting enquiries in my area, and not a single one of my neighbours was prepared to cooperate (and ones an ex conservative MP)

I had the misfortune to watch a program on police traffic cops yesterday evening, and I hate to say it, but many of the officers involved came across as little more that ignorant bullies. A number actually expressed delight at the fact they where able to drive around at high speed in a BMW !. I'd expect that type of attitude from a 15 year old joy rider, not a 40 year old officer.

The police did everything in their power to surpress this story. We are expected to believe that CCTV cameras had been turned off on the instruction of the police. So we pay BILLIONS for CCTV to be installed, and on the day of a major demonstration at which trouble was expected, and the police tooled up, senior police give the instruction to turn it off !. Soory, I dont believe a word.

Had it not been for independant video evidence we'd be none the wiser of the events of that day. Ironically, the people responsible for the collection of that evidence broke the law by filming police officers assaulting a members of the public.

We are supposed to have policing by consent in the UK. They do an increasingly difficult job, but failing to take responsibility when things go wrong, and the increasingly agressive stance from badly trained officers is going to end in tears.

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as above

Post  halfamo on Thu 22 Jul - 14:22

AnnaEsse wrote:
halfamo wrote:I found this finding by the CPS astounding how they can come to the conclusion that the policeman who struck Mr Tomlinson played no part in his death is amazing.

I just checked on Sky News cos that shocked me and it's true, the police officer played no part in this man's death.

Sky News

(It's persisting down here now! The Heavens have just opened up!)

It started raining here yesterday but does'nt feel any cooler .

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as above

Post  halfamo on Thu 22 Jul - 14:34

Hare wrote:
halfamo wrote:I found this finding by the CPS astounding how they can come to the conclusion that the policeman who struck Mr Tomlinson played no part in his death is amazing.

It is rather worrying isnt it. It doesnt really help in establishing public trust in the police, which appears to be at an all time low. The Raul Moat fiasco clearly indicated an anti police sentiment. The police where recently conducting enquiries in my area, and not a single one of my neighbours was prepared to cooperate (and ones an ex conservative MP)

I had the misfortune to watch a program on police traffic cops yesterday evening, and I hate to say it, but many of the officers involved came across as little more that ignorant bullies. A number actually expressed delight at the fact they where able to drive around at high speed in a BMW !. I'd expect that type of attitude from a 15 year old joy rider, not a 40 year old officer.

The police did everything in their power to surpress this story. We are expected to believe that CCTV cameras had been turned off on the instruction of the police. So we pay BILLIONS for CCTV to be installed, and on the day of a major demonstration at which trouble was expected, and the police tooled up, senior police give the instruction to turn it off !. Soory, I dont believe a word.

Had it not been for independant video evidence we'd be none the wiser of the events of that day. Ironically, the people responsible for the collection of that evidence broke the law by filming police officers assaulting a members of the public.

We are supposed to have policing by consent in the UK. They do an increasingly difficult job, but failing to take responsibility when things go wrong, and the increasingly agressive stance from badly trained officers is going to end in tears.

Hare i defended to the hilt the police in the Roaul Moat case but this leaves a nasty taste,i know its been reported that Mr Tomlinson may have had medical problems due to alchohol but even so i feel the heavy handed behaviour by the police musthave played some part in his death.This does'nt exactly instill confidence in the police.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  malena stool on Fri 23 Jul - 23:35

I find it obscene that the BBC, an allegedly unbiased News channel reported the assault on Mr Tomlinson as "He was pushed to the ground.' He was in fact 'punched to the ground' by the officer in question, with force enough to bring about an internal haemorrhage leading to his death.

It is immaterial that Mr Tomlinson perhaps had a condition which may have exacerbated a predisposition for him to bleed, if he hadn't have been struck he wouldn't have bled, full stop.

The officer was filmed assaulting a man walking home from a day's work with his hands in his pockets; this officer has apparently avoided answering any charges in a criminal court....... Any halfway competent lawyer representing the average hoody attired mugger should have a field day citing Mr Tomlinsonís case.

British Justice, once the Gold Standard that all civilised nations emulated is now seen not only to stink but stink in full colour on national TV.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 24 Jul - 7:37

malena stool wrote:I find it obscene that the BBC, an allegedly unbiased News channel reported the assault on Mr Tomlinson as "He was pushed to the ground.' He was in fact 'punched to the ground' by the officer in question, with force enough to bring about an internal haemorrhage leading to his death.

It is immaterial that Mr Tomlinson perhaps had a condition which may have exacerbated a predisposition for him to bleed, if he hadn't have been struck he wouldn't have bled, full stop.

The officer was filmed assaulting a man walking home from a day's work with his hands in his pockets; this officer has apparently avoided answering any charges in a criminal court....... Any halfway competent lawyer representing the average hoody attired mugger should have a field day citing Mr Tomlinsonís case.

British Justice, once the Gold Standard that all civilised nations emulated is now seen not only to stink but stink in full colour on national TV.

When I was working in residential child care with kids in the care of the local authority, most of the young people at one establishment were very vocal in confrontations with police officers who arrived to arrest them for various misdemeanours. I used to tell them that people come out of police vans looking battered and bruised, so wise up and shut up. They very rarely listened. I am glad that our police are not armed!

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  malena stool on Sat 24 Jul - 9:20

AnnaEsse wrote:
malena stool wrote:I find it obscene that the BBC, an allegedly unbiased News channel reported the assault on Mr Tomlinson as "He was pushed to the ground.' He was in fact 'punched to the ground' by the officer in question, with force enough to bring about an internal haemorrhage leading to his death.

It is immaterial that Mr Tomlinson perhaps had a condition which may have exacerbated a predisposition for him to bleed, if he hadn't have been struck he wouldn't have bled, full stop.

The officer was filmed assaulting a man walking home from a day's work with his hands in his pockets; this officer has apparently avoided answering any charges in a criminal court....... Any halfway competent lawyer representing the average hoody attired mugger should have a field day citing Mr Tomlinsonís case.

British Justice, once the Gold Standard that all civilised nations emulated is now seen not only to stink but stink in full colour on national TV.

When I was working in residential child care with kids in the care of the local authority, most of the young people at one establishment were very vocal in confrontations with police officers who arrived to arrest them for various misdemeanours. I used to tell them that people come out of police vans looking battered and bruised, so wise up and shut up. They very rarely listened. I am glad that our police are not armed!

I agree Anna, our police, since the 1980's miners strikes in general perform little better than inept, unprofessional government trained thugs, to arm them would potentially turn our streets into the OK corral.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 24 Jul - 9:36

malena stool wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
malena stool wrote:I find it obscene that the BBC, an allegedly unbiased News channel reported the assault on Mr Tomlinson as "He was pushed to the ground.' He was in fact 'punched to the ground' by the officer in question, with force enough to bring about an internal haemorrhage leading to his death.

It is immaterial that Mr Tomlinson perhaps had a condition which may have exacerbated a predisposition for him to bleed, if he hadn't have been struck he wouldn't have bled, full stop.

The officer was filmed assaulting a man walking home from a day's work with his hands in his pockets; this officer has apparently avoided answering any charges in a criminal court....... Any halfway competent lawyer representing the average hoody attired mugger should have a field day citing Mr Tomlinsonís case.

British Justice, once the Gold Standard that all civilised nations emulated is now seen not only to stink but stink in full colour on national TV.

When I was working in residential child care with kids in the care of the local authority, most of the young people at one establishment were very vocal in confrontations with police officers who arrived to arrest them for various misdemeanours. I used to tell them that people come out of police vans looking battered and bruised, so wise up and shut up. They very rarely listened. I am glad that our police are not armed!

I agree Anna, our police, since the 1980's miners strikes in general perform little better than inept, unprofessional government trained thugs, to arm them would potentially turn our streets into the OK corral.

In the mid-nineties, I took part in a peaceful demo in Liverpool in support of the dockers. It was a bright, sunny day and the atmosphere as we walked almost like a carnival: there were drummers and other musicians and the general feeling was light and bright. There came a point, as the procession went up a hill, when I realised that the music ahead had suddenly stopped and an eerie silence had settled in. The road curved at the top of the hill and as my group approached, the reason for the silence was obvious. Blocking the top of a side street was one of the most chilling sights I have ever seen. There, shoulder-to-shoulder, was a line of very tall police officers, totally in black, faces covered with tinted visors, shields and batons raised. After a few minutes, the music started up again, but if the aim was to intimidate, it sure put the wind up the people in the procession, at least for a short time.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  Panda on Sat 24 Jul - 12:53


I"m not sticking up for the Police , but most demonstrations nowadays end in violence, with yobbos lobbing
stones at Windows, setting fire to Cars , laying into the Police with anything to hand, shames the Demo and
the Organisers for not keeping an eye on things. Yes, the Police do use unneccesary violence at times but often
they are provoked.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 24 Jul - 12:59

Panda wrote:
I"m not sticking up for the Police , but most demonstrations nowadays end in violence, with yobbos lobbing
stones at Windows, setting fire to Cars , laying into the Police with anything to hand, shames the Demo and
the Organisers for not keeping an eye on things. Yes, the Police do use unneccesary violence at times but often
they are provoked.

I agree Panda. That particular demo, though, ended on a grassy area by the river, where musicians played in the sunshine and there was no trouble whatsoever.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  malena stool on Sat 24 Jul - 19:50

Panda wrote:
I"m not sticking up for the Police , but most demonstrations nowadays end in violence, with yobbos lobbing
stones at Windows, setting fire to Cars , laying into the Police with anything to hand, shames the Demo and
the Organisers for not keeping an eye on things. Yes, the Police do use unneccesary violence at times but often
they are provoked.
Panda. I agree but often times the police themselves provoke trouble as many old miners will testify. I have seen it myself first hand at football matches where high spirits were inflamed by poor or ill timed police tactics. I'm not saying all officers are bad or heavy handed but when blatantly obvious bully boy actions by one officer are seen by millions on national tv and allowed to go unpunished it leaves doubt as to just how unbiased the rule of law really is. imo

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 24 Jul - 20:04

malena stool wrote:
Panda wrote:
I"m not sticking up for the Police , but most demonstrations nowadays end in violence, with yobbos lobbing
stones at Windows, setting fire to Cars , laying into the Police with anything to hand, shames the Demo and
the Organisers for not keeping an eye on things. Yes, the Police do use unneccesary violence at times but often
they are provoked.
Panda. I agree but often times the police themselves provoke trouble as many old miners will testify. I have seen it myself first hand at football matches where high spirits were inflamed by poor or ill timed police tactics. I'm not saying all officers are bad or heavy handed but when blatantly obvious bully boy actions by one officer are seen by millions on national tv and allowed to go unpunished it leaves doubt as to just how unbiased the rule of law really is. imo

What about this, then, at a German festival? 15 people crushed to death in a tunnel.

Sky News

This is reminiscent of the Hillsborough disaster.

At least 15 people have been killed and up to 100 injured when mass panic broke out in a tunnel at Germany's Love Parade music festival.

Up to one million people have gathered in the city of Duisberg for the annual techno music event.

Reports said a stampede broke out in a tunnel after authorities tried to stop thousands of people from entering the area where the parade is being held, said German news agency DAPD.

Sunday Times correspondent Michael Woodward told Sky News: "People in a tunnel were completely crushed. They could not move forward, they could not move back.


"That is when the panic broke out," he said.

Emergency workers had trouble getting to the victims who were crushed.

Germany's Interior Ministry has ordered an inquiry.

Kate Connolly, of The Guardian, told Sky News: "Medical staff had to fight through the massive crowd to reach them."

She added: "Some eyewitnesses at the festival said they have seen bodies under white sheets."

Connolly told Sky how police had been careful not to tell the other festival-goers what had happened so as not to provoke any more panic.

She said: "There were 1.4 million revellers taking part in this festival and some 1,200 police there.

"But the question is whether the police really did understand how to control that many people."

She said the entire event had been fenced off and police removed the barrier after people were being crushed up against it.

"There are lots of people in the crowd who are saying the police seemed to be a complete loss as to what to do when this panic broke out."

Connolly went on: "I think the tunnel was just purely too narrow to cope with the numbers of people who took that short cut. It clearly was the case it should have been shut."

The Love Parade grew from a 1989 peace demonstration in Berlin into a huge outdoor celebration of club culture.

About 1.5 million people attended at its peak in 1999.

Since 2007 it has been held in the industrial Ruhr region of western Germany after suffering financial problems and tensions with city officials in Berlin.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  malena stool on Sat 24 Jul - 20:25

Words cannot begin to describe the horror those involved must have experienced, may those who lost their lives rest in peace and the injured effect a speedy and full recovery.

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as above

Post  halfamo on Mon 26 Jul - 14:38

This was a absolute tragedy , a dreadful waste of life thoughts go out to the familes of the dead and to those injured. A sad end to a tradition a parade that was supposed to represent peace and love.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  Lioned on Tue 3 May - 21:04

Inquest finds Ian Tomlinson 'Unlawfully Killed


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383094/G20-inquest-Ian-Tomlinson-WAS-unlawfully-killed-police-officer.html





Criminal proceedings could reopen against Pc Simon Harwood after jurors ruled he acted illegally, recklessly and dangerously in shoving Mr Tomlinson to the ground.

Pc Harwood used 'excessive and unreasonable' force in hitting Mr Tomlinson with a baton, the jury said. Mr Tomlinson posed no threat, they added.


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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  wjk on Tue 3 May - 21:28

I was so glad to hear this on the News today.
I hope Mr Tomlinsons family get justice.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  Lioned on Tue 3 May - 21:33

Indeed.The attack on Tomlinson was completely unprovoked,he was of no threat to anyone.

It is not the first time i have seen such an unprovoked attack by a Police officer.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  malena stool on Tue 3 May - 23:25

I don't seem to remember him being 'recklessly pushed to the ground'...Brutally and unnecessarily punched to the ground is a better description.

Wrap it anyway they like the man's death was brought about by the insane actions of a bully, albeit an overpaid aggressive egotist hiding behind a warrant card and a uniform... Let's hope the punishment fits the crime....

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  wjk on Wed 4 May - 10:07

And reading some background on this particular policeman, that's all he was/is, a bully!

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  Lioned on Wed 4 May - 16:33

'His' hearing is going to be held in public so i imagine the knives are being sharpened and hopefully he'll get taught a lesson which may serve to remind all the others that they can't hide behind their badge.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  margaret on Wed 4 May - 16:55

I acutally had a minor argument with a friend over this ages ago, she was not happy because l said the policeman should be struck off for what he did, I don't think she sees anything wrong in police. I'm not sure l ever convinced her someone walking away with their hands in their pockets posed no threat and didn't deserve being hit....

I did wonder if he was there for troublemaking but seeing the pictures of him trying to leave and being turned back towards the trouble upset me, l didn't realise he'd tried to leave before.

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  Guest on Wed 4 May - 18:55

Ian Tomlinson officer's hearing to take place in public
Decision by IPCC to hold PC Simon Harwood's disciplinary proceedings in open due to 'exceptional public interest'


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Paul Lewis
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 4 May 2011 18.45 BST
Article history



PC Simon Harwood arriving to give evidence at the Ian Tomlinson inquest. Harwood's gross misconduct hearing wil be held in public. Photograph: Sean Dempsey/PA

PC Simon Harwood, the police officer who inadvertently killed Ian Tomlinson at the G20 protests, will be forced to explain his actions for the second time in public after a rare move to hold his disciplinary proceedings in the open.

The Metropolitan police has been instructed by the national police watchdog to hold its gross misconduct hearing in public due to the "exceptional public interest" in the case.

The jury in the inquest into Tomlinson's death concluded on Tuesday that Harwood "unlawfully killed" the newspaper vendor, when he struck him with a baton and pushed him heavily to the ground in April 2009.

Harwood spent three days answering questions at the inquest, in which he maintained his actions were proportionate and justified.

The director of public prosecutions, Keir Starmer, is currently reviewing his decision last July not to bring criminal proceedings against Harwood, 43, a member of the Met's Territorial Support Group.

Harwood could now face prosecution for manslaughter, an imprisonable offence.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission said the Met had not objected to its decision to hold the hearing in public.

However the IPCC ruling went against the desires of Harwood and eleven other police witnesses, some of whom expressed concern over the impact that giving evidence in an open forum would have on their private lives.

"Over the past weeks the evidence from our investigation has been heard, tested and challenged at the inquest," said the IPCC commissioner for London, Deborah Glass.

"The verdict speaks for itself. The conclusion of the inquest is an important stage in the process but it is not the final one, particularly as the inquest does not Ė indeed cannot Ė determine accountability, which is a matter of exceptional public concern in this case. I have therefore decided that due to the gravity and exceptional circumstances of this case, the misconduct proceedings should be heard in public."

The only other police officers disciplined at a public hearing were censured over their failure to respond to 999 calls for help from Colette Lynch, a 24-year-old woman who days later was killed by her ex-partner Percy Wright. Two Warwickshire police officers were disciplined for their failure to follow procedure when it emerged Lynch, her mother and her brother had called officers dozens of times to say Wright had been threatening her.

In a statement, the Met said Harwood's disciplinary hearing would take place "as soon as possible" but did not give a date or any other details. "The timing of the hearing is decided by the chair of the panel who must first consider the findings of the inquest and consult with all parties before setting a date."

The disciplinary panel, which will have the power to sack Harwood, will be chaired by Met Assistant Commissioner Lynne Owens. The other members of the panel will be a senior police officer and a layperson.

The disciplinary charges against Harwood include that he struck Tomlinson with a baton and pushed him to the ground, and that "such dangerous actions inadvertently caused or contributed" to his death.

He is also accused of using force that was "not necessary, proportionate or reasonable in the circumstances".

Harwood is expected to contest the charges. He said after Tuesday's verdict that video evidence presented a "very different picture" to the impression he had when he struck Tomlinson near the Bank of England.

His lawyer Colin Reynolds said of his client: "In particular, he wishes that he had known then all that he now knows about Mr Tomlinson's movements and fragile state of health. PC Harwood did not intend, or foresee at the time, that his push would cause Mr Tomlinson to fall over, let alone that it would result in any injury."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/04/ian-tomlinson-officer-hearing-public?CMP=twt_gu

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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  Angelique on Wed 4 May - 22:41

Lioned

Thank you for this information and the video.

Having watched the whole of PC Simon Harwood's progress during the demonstration from his dereliction of duty by leaving his designated position by his vehicle to the point where he grabbed one demonstrator and dragged him straight into the door of another Police vehicle, to the assault on the cameraman and then the contact he had with Ian Tomlinson - I think it's fair to say he was extremely aggressive towards anyone he made contact with.

I was horrified when the CPS cleared him originally - and I feel so much sympathy for the family who had endure 2 years wait to get this result when it was patently obvious to anyone watching the footage that day that there was some thing wholly inappropriate with PC Simon Harwood's behaviour.

Let's hope that the Disciplinary Hearing is not a white-wash.


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Re: Ian Tomlinson the G20 and the CPS

Post  wjk on Thu 5 May - 14:45

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8495253/Dr-Freddy-Patel-investigated-by-GMC-following-Ian-Tomlinson-inquest.html

GOOD!

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