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NHS doctor was on trial for murder

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NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  mara thon on Sat 13 Nov - 16:16

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20101113/thl-nhs-doctor-was-on-trial-for-murder-d831572.html

A doctor worked at two NHS hospitals while waiting to stand trial for killing a patient in Spain, it has been revealed.

Marcos Hourmann, 51, originally from Argentina, was able to continue working as a surgeon in the UK even after being found guilty of killing a patient in Spain.

He even went on to work as a police surgeon in the UK, reportedly earning £10,000 a month, despite his conviction in Spain for manslaughter.

Hourmann was able to flout the rules in the UK and lead a double life because of lax European laws. European countries have no legal obligation to alert their neighbours when medical staff receive convictions.

Hourmann carried out a mercy killing on an 82-year-old female patient whom, he claimed, had asked to die. He gave her a lethal potassium chloride injection, identical to that used in the USA to administer the death penalty. Initially charged with murder in 2005, He then came to the UK looking for employment while awaiting trial.

He worked at West Suffolk Hospital, Bury St Edmunds, as an accident and emergency medic from February 2006 to August 2007. He then moved on to Prince Philip Hospital, Llanelli, in south Wales, where he worked until July 2008. He then moved on to work as a surgeon for Dyfed Powys Police, in Carmarthenshire, both before and after his conviction.

Hourmann, who was born in Argentina and now lives near Aberystwyth, west Wales, kept his conviction secret. He was only suspended from his police job after information was provided by an anonymous whistle-blower last month.

"Dyfed Powys Police has a contract with an external agency for the provision of police surgeons," a spokesman for the force said. "We are liaising with them in relation to this matter and are investigating the circumstances surrounding this issue. The doctor has been suspended pending the results of the investigation. We also understand that this matter is being dealt with by the GMC and we will abide by its findings accordingly"

A spokesman for the West Suffolk Hospital NHS Trust, said: "The Trust can confirm that this individual worked in our accident and emergency department from February 2006 to August 2007. All the appropriate pre-employment checks were made by the Trust prior to him taking up his appointment."

A Carmarthenshire NHS Trust spokesman, said: "We can confirm that the doctor did work at Prince Philip Hospital for a brief period between 2007 and 2008. All the necessary pre-employment checks were undertaken."

.........................

It appears that medical personnel can quite literally get away with just about anything.

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  widowan on Sat 13 Nov - 16:44

what do you expect, it is the fault of those swarthy Europeans and their lax laws!

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  Arguida on Sat 13 Nov - 16:48

I don't really see the problem. There is nothing to indicate that he isn't a good and competent doctor.

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  mara thon on Sat 13 Nov - 18:08

quote........Hourmann was able to flout the rules in the UK and lead a double life because of lax European laws. European countries have no legal obligation to alert their neighbours when medical staff receive convictions..unquote


I think you are missing the point Arguida, the above is the point and in my own opinion a worrying point.

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  Guest on Sat 13 Nov - 18:18

As far as I can see, having a conviction (of any sort) does not automatically prevent you being employed within NHS - they will take the nature of the offence into account in deciding whether to offer you the job or not:

Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) checks: Employers may ask for a CRB check depending on the type of work you will be doing. The CRB disclosure will reveal if an individual has a criminal record. The employer will then make an informed decision on whether or not to appoint that individual.

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/working_join.shtml


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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  docmac on Sat 13 Nov - 18:36

Nothing wrong with mercy killing imo. In fact I am a strong advocate of the practise. If it did not happen on British soil it is irrelevant - to me anyhow. As someone stated it has no bearing on the doctor's ability.

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  Arguida on Sat 13 Nov - 18:53

mara thon wrote:quote........Hourmann was able to flout the rules in the UK and lead a double life because of lax European laws. European countries have no legal obligation to alert their neighbours when medical staff receive convictions..unquote


I think you are missing the point Arguida, the above is the point and in my own opinion a worrying point.

I agree there are too many incompetent doctors who move in order to be able to continue practice. I think we recently had a Canadian butcher who went to practice in the U.K. or visa versa. Not enough information flowing and too many confidentiality clauses to protect the doctor and not the public.

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  Luz on Sat 13 Nov - 20:26

widowan wrote: what do you expect, it is the fault of those swarthy Europeans and their lax laws!.

Exactly! We, continentals are terrible, didn't you know? We eat little children at breakfast, not like you islanders that eat raw eggs.

[The first time I was served breakfast in Britain I was served poached eggs, I was a kid and felt sick, since then I never touched an egg again]

Arguida wrote:I don't really see the problem. There is nothing to indicate that he isn't a good and competent doctor.

I bet he is a magnificent doctor, the fact that he is a murderer is just secondary - maybe UK is lacking physicians like we do in Portugal, and so you have to take anyone that is able to use a stethoscope.

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  docmac on Sat 13 Nov - 21:06

I still agree with arguida. The article is far too emotive imo. For starters, the method described is incorrectly and very simplistically portrayed, suggesting almost a cruel and painful procedure. It is not, and if it were no civilized country would allow pets to be put down, for the method is identical.

Mercy killings (I personally do not consider this to be murder) occur daily in every country in the Western world - they are very widely performed in the UK by the way - and are employed especially in elderly patients in the final throes of terminal illness and also in extremely ill neonates with poor expected outcomes - the method used in the latter case is completely different. If the legal system in the country is not progressive on the issue these assisted deaths are necessarily hidden from view, just as they are in the UK.

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  docmac on Sat 13 Nov - 21:40

Marcos Hourmann was the duty doctor when Carmen Cortiella was taken to A&E at a hospital in Tarragona, Spain, with heart problems on March 28, 2005. After a massive heart attack the 82-year-old suffered internal bleeding, the doctor’s trial heard. Mrs Cortiella’s family consented to the doctor treating her with painkillers and sedatives, but he also injected a fatal dose of potassium chloride. Hourmann insisted that Mrs Cortiella had told him twice she wanted to die, saying: ‘I thought the humane thing to do was to cut short her suffering.’

He was backed by the dead woman’s son and daughter, who refused to support his prosecution.

But a hospital spokesman said: ‘He acted outside the law and we had to report him.’

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  widowan on Sat 13 Nov - 21:43

There is nothing wrong with it if there is nothing illegal about it, but alas it cannot always be down to the doctor deciding. The patient should decide if they are over 18 at least.

Right to life should mean the right as an adult to choose to end your own life, after 82 years, if you choose to do so, especially if ill - or if terminally ill, at any time.

Why should someone have to suffer so the right to lifers can make a point that every second you draw breath is not in fact your right but their right, to choose how much agony you have to go through.

I don't think mercy killing is murder - have had close relative move to a state where it is not illegal specifically because she was terrified that if she stayed here in the South she would be forced to suffer and prolong that suffering, down to a pro-life agenda.

We recently had a child here forced to suffer the most imaginable pain, dying of leukemia - it was painful to read about, for a ten year old I can't even imagine what the last few weeks of his "life" were like - he was forced to undergo painful debilitating treatment in an already wracked body and the parents used him as their 'rock' because he 'never complained'. He never complained probably because he was unconscious a good deal of the time or vomitting blood - and the obvious conclusion that he was dying was not discussed, he never got to say good bye or to have his parents discuss what must have been a terrifying prospect for him - I am dying and my parents are too afraid to even talk with me about it. No chance to hear about some kind of afterlife, no chance to die peacefully but hooked up to yet another treatment.

I would not put a cat through that, much less a loved one.

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  Angelique on Sun 14 Nov - 1:23

This is a very emotive subject - no one wants anyone to go through terrible pain at or near the end of their life. As has been said - would you let an animal suffer like this - no I couldn't let this happen to animal, much less a human being. But for a good reason the law says that people should not be helped to commit suicide. Not because they are unfeeling but because they fear that it will be abused and relatives of perhaps an aging person may be inclined to resort to this if they feel they are a burden.

I don't know what I would do until I am in this situation so I can neither support or abhor what this Doctor did.

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 14 Nov - 9:10

Luz wrote:
widowan wrote: what do you expect, it is the fault of those swarthy Europeans and their lax laws!.

Exactly! We, continentals are terrible, didn't you know? We eat little children at breakfast, not like you islanders that eat raw eggs.

[The first time I was served breakfast in Britain I was served poached eggs, I was a kid and felt sick, since then I never touched an egg again]

Arguida wrote:I don't really see the problem. There is nothing to indicate that he isn't a good and competent doctor.

I bet he is a magnificent doctor, the fact that he is a murderer is just secondary - maybe UK is lacking physicians like we do in Portugal, and so you have to take anyone that is able to use a stethoscope.

My four-year-old grandson can use a stethoscope. Maybe it's time he earned his keep!

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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

Post  mara thon on Sun 14 Nov - 10:12

My reason for posting the article was not what this particular doctor had done, but this sentence:

quote ....European countries have no legal obligation to alert their neighbours when medical staff receive convictions....unquote

Therefore it appears to me that if an applicant doesn´t mention any conviction of any kind, then it is quite likely nothing will be checked out.


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Re: NHS doctor was on trial for murder

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