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jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Sat 9 Jul - 23:15

fedrules wrote:I agree that Jo probably knew her killer, but, from what I've read she was unusually fit and would surely have put up a struggle if someone tried to force her out of the flat? Unless there were two people who could overpower her? Jo was apparently a keen rower and, according to her mother, used to challenge her boyfriends to arm wrestle, so we can conclude that she was strong enough not to be an easy victim for any attacker. Perhaps this is why the police have envisaged the possibility of two perpetrators ? It also seems to rule Mr J out, unless he somehow caught her unawares. However, it is also true that any strong man will always be a match for a woman..like you say, it's all very puzzling. It is also very hard to imagine what motive anyone would have to kill Jo..unless she was the victim of an unhinged person whose motives are difficult for normal people to guess.
''

The speed with which she was attacked is an oddity here. I did not know she walked in those boots all the way home, a mile, and clearly was wandering at least that far for the cider and pizza. That is a long walk out in the cold, but say it took her ten minutes to walk home, and she got there at 850 that doesn't leave long to throw purse on the counter, kick off boots, remove coat and get the cider open and drink half of it, before she was screaming. That makes it seem like someone was lying in wait and could have surprised her, however, even tho VT knew she was going to be alone he didn't have a key to their flat I shouldn't think-- so it is more likely he knocked on the door and was invited in and then very quickly things went shockingly wrong from both their perspectives.

That invitation to come in invokes all kinds of possible scenarios that do not include pre meditated murder, what if they were having an affair and a lover's spat? Or if he wanted to take the friendship further into romance, and she did not. She may have invited him over too as long as she was looking for male company with her BF out of town, let's have some pizza and watch a movie since both our OH's are going to be out. Nothing wrong with that necessarily but "hey come in for some pizza" might be taken by this guy as an indicator that she wanted him in bed. Of course if she did not and resisted this advance she might have "caused" him to snap if he has some kind of fragile ego.

I wonder if he has a string of such things behind him or if this is the first... he could hardly have planned to RAPE her and get away with it unless he also killed her and hid the body and as he didnot have aplan to hide the body I think it is not likely that he did plan this killing and with that being the case the rape makes no sense as such - he wouldn't have dared to hope he could rape her, not kill her, and get away with it, it's not like she wouldn't be able to identify himm - it would have had to be a slightly less clear cut scenario blurring the lines between them like date rape - he felt they were on a date and she did not and rejected him with some force or temper - fought him and he snapped and got more angry and physical and grabbed her throat -

OR he is a serial killer in the making. Killed her because he simply wanted to kill a woman and then terrorize a community leaving the body out for them to find and cooly eating the pizza himself and taking the box away with him ...

the fact the crown rejected the guilty to manslaughter plea makes me think they think they have this guy as a cold blooded killer who planned to do it and the two things that seem to feed that theory IMO are the missing food and the short length of time she had at home before the attack - it just doesn't seem consistent with anything other than an assault. Not missed signals and a fight but a surprise attack...



Last edited by widowan on Sun 10 Jul - 0:02; edited 1 time in total

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Sat 9 Jul - 23:40

http://www.bdp.com/en/About/6111-Celebrating-50-Years/Tour-De-BDP/?parentpageid=200&category=139

Interesting charity event BDP did for her, they cycled all around the UK and have photos of it. they had matching t shirts done up etc. and the money is going to the Red Cross, RSPCA and Missing People.

The photos are very nice, they did the cycling from May 5-26 although in Abu Dhabi apparantly got a little head start due to the heat. Those outlying offices cycled round their own environs bu t the UK ones went al the way around the UK and people gave money for them, they have a list of the contributors. They were in Liverpool...

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  Panda on Mon 11 Jul - 8:54

Widowan

I was as shocked as everyone when Tabak was arrested and couldn"t understand how he could spend Christmas with his girlfriend and her Family, then
the New Year with his family apparently appearing normal. He is considered a quiet upstanding gentleman.

My theory is they met on the way home, Jo invited him in for a drink ,he was her neighbour and there would have been nothing untoward about this.
Maybe they had both had a lot to drink and it got a bit amorous and out of hand. What happened in the Flat only Tabak knows but the charge his
Lawyer wanted to submit was manslaughter , but the CPS said there was sufficient evidence to go for Murder......we will just have to wait for the
hearing in October to know more.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  wjk on Mon 11 Jul - 9:34

Panda, mybe you know the answer to this?
If they go for murder and he's found not guilty, what happens about the manslaughter? He's admitted it but wasn't charged with it.
Will he be imprisoned for manslaughter because he admitted it?
I don't remember a case like this before.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  Panda on Mon 11 Jul - 10:31

wjk wrote:Panda, mybe you know the answer to this?
If they go for murder and he's found not guilty, what happens about the manslaughter? He's admitted it but wasn't charged with it.
Will he be imprisoned for manslaughter because he admitted it?
I don't remember a case like this before.

No, wjk, neither do I and think the CPS , with all the pressure and , you know who I mean being supected , they felt they had enough evidence to
charge Tabak with Murder. We don"t yet know what evidence they have, I would suspect very little or Tabak would have been charged sooner. Wasn"t
it a phone call from a crying female who alerted them.? If the Jury decide there is insufficient evidence to prove the crime was pre-meditated, since he
has admitted Manslaughter he can be charged with that presumably. His Lawyer must have had a reason for not opting for "not guilty" so Tabak must
have confessed but the Lawyer is opting for the lesser sentence.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  wjk on Mon 11 Jul - 12:08

Panda wrote:
wjk wrote:Panda, mybe you know the answer to this?
If they go for murder and he's found not guilty, what happens about the manslaughter? He's admitted it but wasn't charged with it.
Will he be imprisoned for manslaughter because he admitted it?
I don't remember a case like this before.

No, wjk, neither do I and think the CPS , with all the pressure and , you know who I mean being supected , they felt they had enough evidence to
charge Tabak with Murder. We don"t yet know what evidence they have, I would suspect very little or Tabak would have been charged sooner. Wasn"t
it a phone call from a crying female who alerted them.? If the Jury decide there is insufficient evidence to prove the crime was pre-meditated, since he
has admitted Manslaughter he can be charged with that presumably. His Lawyer must have had a reason for not opting for "not guilty" so Tabak must
have confessed but the Lawyer is opting for the lesser sentence.

Maybe they have the sock and pizza box now, but I still don't see how any of that could be used to prove murder. They must be pretty sure they have enough, to not except manslaughter. It will be very interesting to see what comes out in court.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Mon 11 Jul - 19:07

They have circumstantial evidence to prove it or help prove it I believe. The timeline is of critical importance. If they had no prior agreement to meet, and she only had ten minutes in her apt before the attack that caused the screaming, that is really not time enough to get amorous and have a falling out. That seems more like an attack. Although I am not sure if the time is 9 PM of the scream or just "close to 9 PM" - if she invited him in, a bit drunk from the 2 hours in the pub with no dinner (evidently, since she was getting a pizza) and they were there maybe he did come up behind her and nuzzle her or touch her or do something that she over reacted to or he took as over reaction and it escalated. I mean you don't even need her to be drunk for that.

Also they have cause of death. Strangulation is not a fast thing like losing your temper and hitting someone and causing them to die by hitting their head, or a gun shot. It takes a long time. As well, if it were found to have been done by ligature that tells you taht this likely was planned out at least a moment ahead of time.

In the US premeditation does not have to mean you planned this for weeks or hours - intent canned be formed in an instant. To grab someone by the neck in a blind rage and then look down and see "what have I done" is not the same as finding something to put around their neck. I would hav thought the freezing weather would keep the body fresh and it would be easy to tell if this was a manual strangulation or with ligature.

Also, what was their relationship? If they can get her BF to say she thought he was creepy or he was stalking her, that is one thing - if they often had a meal or glass of wine together and she kind of had a flirtation going, that is going to be very different at least it woudl be in the US, the defense lawyer would use that.

Because he just drove 3 miles and dumped her by the road on the dog walking path I can't see this as a pre planned thing, he did not even know her BF was going to be out of town until the Ll told him that afternoon.

He's have known his dna was on her body - he's not stupid - he left it where it could be found and the dna still on it. As the neighbor he would be a suspect. Someone who planned this out and planned to get away with it (as you would) would not have done that. He'd have dumped her in the river or driven further away or the like.

Do we know, was the crying woman a myth or really did someone snitch on him? Could be his GF, the gal whose flat he had keys to or someone from her work who called to say "I spoke to Jo and she had said this creepy guy next door was always contriving to meet her in the hall on the way to the mailbox, or looked at her weirdly - and made her uncomfortable" -

alternatively could be a co worker saying "she was having an affair with this Dutch guy she thought was brilliant, he lived next door and no one knew that but Jo confided in me" -

They could put 2 and 2 together and get 4 as well as anyone else with the dna match and the kind of car he either rented or borrowed that night, once they had a tip...

I wonder if it was his GF because he was ruled out initially - possibly because she gave him an alibi then thought better of it and called them crying to say she WASNT in that night with him. Why would she do that after lying at first though. maybe she did get some inkling from him or see some scratches or something that weren't explained to her satisfaction. Or she could have come home and found that pizza box in their trash and realized where it came from - !

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Mon 11 Jul - 19:24

wjk wrote:
Panda wrote:
wjk wrote:Panda, mybe you know the answer to this?
If they go for murder and he's found not guilty, what happens about the manslaughter? He's admitted it but wasn't charged with it.
Will he be imprisoned for manslaughter because he admitted it?
I don't remember a case like this before.

No, wjk, neither do I and think the CPS , with all the pressure and , you know who I mean being supected , they felt they had enough evidence to
charge Tabak with Murder. We don"t yet know what evidence they have, I would suspect very little or Tabak would have been charged sooner. Wasn"t
it a phone call from a crying female who alerted them.? If the Jury decide there is insufficient evidence to prove the crime was pre-meditated, since he
has admitted Manslaughter he can be charged with that presumably. His Lawyer must have had a reason for not opting for "not guilty" so Tabak must
have confessed but the Lawyer is opting for the lesser sentence.

Maybe they have the sock and pizza box now, but I still don't see how any of that could be used to prove murder. They must be pretty sure they have enough, to not except manslaughter. It will be very interesting to see what comes out in court.

If the sock was used to strangle her then you have the murder weapon - and at least some premed as the sock did not get off her foot and around her neck without some notion of using it to kill her.

If they have the pizza box from his friend's flat or his own - that shows he is pretty cold blooded. To go and rifle through her fridge after killing her accidentally doesn't make any sense. Eating would be the last thing on your mind. But you sometimes hear of killers, especially serial ones and predators like rapists going into the victim's kitchen and making a snack or taking some food or drinks.

I wonder if she DID invite him in. Because of that call to the old BF she hadn't seen in 2 years. Maybe she wasn't as happy with Greg as her parents thought. So she asked him over for a nightcap and a bite. With her BF out, to do that would be seen as a come on by many men especially with his own GF out of the house. then feels he has a right to sex with her because "rape is just a woman changing her mind" or some sexist nonsense like that so when she pushes him off maybe he hits her and at some point realizes he is engaged in a sexual assault and that she will indeed call cops and press charges.

He could also have had a disguise on like ski mask or whatever and attacked her in the passage since evidently they have some private entrance area common to them that is not seen by others, maybe he thought he could attack her undetected as to his identity, have his way with her and run away altho that seems unlikely to have fooled anyone.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Mon 11 Jul - 19:27

In the US he could be charged with any number of crimes and the jury could find reasonable doubt as to one of them - the higher one - but find him guilty of the lesser ones. So you can be charged with Murder 1. (premed homicide) and also manslaughter (you caused but did not intend to cause their death) and then the jury can decide what has been proven.

I suppose they will charge him with both and try to prove the murder, if they do not they can fall back on the crime he already tried to plead guilty to? Or in the UK is it one choice and that's it?

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  wjk on Mon 11 Jul - 21:45

Hi widowan, you can see at the bottom of this link, the set out of the flats. The doors for each flat are on the opposite sides if the building, so no common entrance.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/01/21/jo-yeates-murder-cops-arrest-dutch-neighbour-in-dawn-swoop-115875-22864357/

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  wjk on Mon 11 Jul - 22:05

As this report says, he put in a plea of manslaughter which wasn't excepted by the crown. It also says the prosecution rejected his manslaughter plea.
That to me reads like he's being charged with murder alone.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jo-yeates-neighbour-admits-manslaughter-but-faces-murder-trial-2279797.html

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  wjk on Mon 11 Jul - 22:08

As for the pizza box. I think the police were looking for the box because they had seen Jo with it on the CCTV. This was before her body was found and they didn't know whether Jo had had time to eat it or not. After the autopsy, they knew she hadn't ate it. Maybe they found the box with the pizza still in it in Tabaks freezer?

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  Panda on Mon 11 Jul - 22:15

wjk wrote:As this report says, he put in a plea of manslaughter which wasn't excepted by the crown. It also says the prosecution rejected his manslaughter plea.
That to me reads like he's being charged with murder alone.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jo-yeates-neighbour-admits-manslaughter-but-faces-murder-trial-2279797.html

As far as I remember there was a small semen stain on Jo"s clothing so if they matched it to Tabak all it proves is they might have had sex. He doesn"t
own a car but as far as I remember he was caught on camera driving over Clifton Bridge...another mystery to mull over, at least this will have an
outcome though.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  wjk on Mon 11 Jul - 22:19

Panda wrote:
wjk wrote:As this report says, he put in a plea of manslaughter which wasn't excepted by the crown. It also says the prosecution rejected his manslaughter plea.
That to me reads like he's being charged with murder alone.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jo-yeates-neighbour-admits-manslaughter-but-faces-murder-trial-2279797.html

As far as I remember there was a small semen stain on Jo"s clothing so if they matched it to Tabak all it proves is they might have had sex. He doesn"t
own a car but as far as I remember he was caught on camera driving over Clifton Bridge...another mystery to mull over, at least this will have an
outcome though.

Hi Panda, hope your fit and well!
I remember it as being saliva on her chest, under her clothes?

ETA link. DNA mentioned at the bottom of the article.
Also a good lay-out plan of both Tabaks and Jo's flats.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3363615/Jo-Yeates-Dutch-neighbour-nicked.html

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Tue 12 Jul - 1:17

wjk wrote:Hi widowan, you can see at the bottom of this link, the set out of the flats. The doors for each flat are on the opposite sides if the building, so no common entrance.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/01/21/jo-yeates-murder-cops-arrest-dutch-neighbour-in-dawn-swoop-115875-22864357/

I se that - I must have misunderstood the comment I read on here where someone of their neighbors had said they had an area that was somehow adjoining that no one would have seen or heard anything. I thought it was like a joint covered car park or something.

How hard would it be for an architect to "unblock" that door? Unless it was cement or bricked in surely it is a matter of getting the deadbolt keys, jemmying those locks or removing the door from its hinges. He could have done this and been lying in wait for her, she comes home, kicks off the outwear and opens a cider, wanders in to her room - or he wanders out - and the scream -


why did no one in the upper floors hear this? They must have done if someone across the street did.

But I think she would surely answer the door to him after all how safe would you feel, it's your architect neighbor you've done joint work with before. I would open the door to any of my male neighbors unless they were obviously drunk or something, or staggering around with a hatchet or the like.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Tue 12 Jul - 1:32

Panda wrote:
wjk wrote:As this report says, he put in a plea of manslaughter which wasn't excepted by the crown. It also says the prosecution rejected his manslaughter plea.
That to me reads like he's being charged with murder alone.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jo-yeates-neighbour-admits-manslaughter-but-faces-murder-trial-2279797.html

As far as I remember there was a small semen stain on Jo"s clothing so if they matched it to Tabak all it proves is they might have had sex. He doesn"t
own a car but as far as I remember he was caught on camera driving over Clifton Bridge...another mystery to mull over, at least this will have an
outcome though.

His GF has a car, he lives with her, so for all intents and purposes he DOES have a car. He also had the keys to the flat and presumably the vehicle of this Emily person who was in Chile. The accountant.

I feel like it is uncommon for a young woman to have a 4 by 4 - big truck like that?

They said dna would found on her breasts, jeans and stomach area on her clothes and I felt like that was saliva not semen. They had said he might have got it on her in moving the body and I would doubt that semen would be a result of that, maybe sweat though. Especially if hed just frantically cycled across town to get this truck.

The dna on the breasts probably says he was either assaulting her or they were snogging and she decided she did not want to go further at the same time that he decided that he DID. I cannot imagine the horror of inviting a guy that you know and are friendly with, if for a Friday night drink or to share a pizza since he's on his own as are you, you sit on the couch to have that and all of a sudden he is trying to get your clothes off or lunging in to do something unexpected and unwelcome. He was strong enough to strangle her. I feel like she tried to struggle and get away and may have punched him a crippling blow to the neck or clawed him off her long enough to make a run for the door and he got her by the ankle and pulled her back in, her sock came off.

I don't know how he would shut her up fast enough to have only the two screams right in a row - people take a while to die of strangulation and she must have been fighting and kicking - they said he came back and "cleaned up" though. So tipped over furniture or the like would have been put to rights and the pizza or other mess tidied up and maybe that door resealed or relocked if that was the way he got in.

i'm leaning towards the "narcissist who could not handle rejection and snapped" motif however, except that there was such a short period of time.

But how could he think he'd pounce on her and rape her and get away with it? He'd have to kill her to keep her from talking.

I dont get how it could be anything like premeditated - that he set out to kill her all along - but will go look at the time when the screams were heard. The closer they are to 850 PM the less likely VT and Jo had a chance to have any kind of altercation that would spur this fight and more likely he attacked her because quiet and smart or not, he's a psychopath.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Tue 12 Jul - 1:52

8:40pm – leaves Tesco Express on Regents Street in Clifton. Buys Tesco Finest Mozzarella, Tomato & Basil Pesto pizza (£4.50). (notes: unfrozen, 6-8 mins to cook)
9:00pm – Landlord Chris Jeffries says he saw three people, one may have been Joanna. (He has since said that he did not see Joanna that night)
9:00pm – woman opposite steps outside from a Xmas party to have a cigarette. Heard two short, sharp screams. As it was Xmas season she thought it was probably revellers. Joanna’s flat was obscured by trees, but the screams came from that direction

How can something have gone so wrong in five or ten minutes? She left Tesco, it's a ten minute walk anyhow and looks like it could be a mile - I can't walk a mile in ten minutes! I guess if she was a good walker she could do it but still for those screams to have been her being attacked it leaves very little time for him to have gotten invited in, settled on the couch or what not and got down to business and got rejected.

This must be why they think this is a murder... obviously with ligature strangulation...


She obviously was killed in her home because you don't leave with one sock and one bare foot even as a hostage. And if he had no access to the GF's car then he'd have had to force her to leave on foot.

I think he cycled away to get the car of someone - someone who probably later called police realizing what the emergency was. Or his GF backed out of alibi;ing him.

Will be interesting to see if the light colored 4 by 4 has any bearing or if some groundskeeper saw a truck that had nothing to do with this murder near that area.

They don't need cell phone pings or the like although they probably have them.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  wjk on Tue 12 Jul - 8:35

Maybe Tabak met her shortly after she came out of Tesco? Walked with her for the mile home, wouldn't take no for an answer when they got to her front door, she screams, he pushes her into the flat and kills her. Remember, they took the door off and took it to do a thorough forensic test on it.
Was it a text messsage or phone call to the friend she hadn't seen for a while? Not that she couldn't have phoned or text while he was walking along next to her.

widowan, can you point me to where it says she knew Tabak before? I've searched but can't find it! I know I'm not asking much in this short thread

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Tue 12 Jul - 19:01

wjk wrote:Maybe Tabak met her shortly after she came out of Tesco? Walked with her for the mile home, wouldn't take no for an answer when they got to her front door, she screams, he pushes her into the flat and kills her. Remember, they took the door off and took it to do a thorough forensic test on it.
Was it a text messsage or phone call to the friend she hadn't seen for a while? Not that she couldn't have phoned or text while he was walking along next to her.

widowan, can you point me to where it says she knew Tabak before? I've searched but can't find it! I know I'm not asking much in this short thread

Ugh, it's somewhere in the first six pages of this thread, his architecture firm was connected to the landscape one she worked at and it said that they had worked jointly on projects. I can't recall if that was a print article or via one of those clips, sorry;

Do you think it is a coincidence that he found out her OH would not be home and then managed to find her at Tesco to walk her home? They didn't call or text - her phone was found back at her apt wasn't it? The police would have checked that. He'd have had to know where she was to waylay her on her way home...

It makes sense he could have badgered her all the way home or trailed her and not taken no for an answe at the door however she had time to open and drink a half bottle of cider and to get her outerwear off so that doesn't make much sense from that standpoint.

Maybe he walked her home and then tried to come back and knock again, after being rejected the first time - had time to get irate and work himself up - and when she said I thought I told you to go away - he became unhinged.

I hate the idea of a woman walking that far in the dark even in the early night. I think it is most unsafe. But then I have a level of paranoia around that as I have a daughter, they never think anyone could bother or hurt them and that it's safe as there are people around but you are at the most risk at home, thru family and friends, that has been proven time and again.


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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Tue 12 Jul - 20:22

I do wonder how it came to be that a person across the way heard these screams - two of them did - but not her neighbors in the apts with her. In December when it is freezing I assume one closes the windows to not let heat leak out. That is how I do it. I know in Europe or at least in Germany people sometimes keep the window open as they feel the night air is beneficial in some way (an opinion I do not share when it is freezing cold outside!)

However if her screams rang out sharply and loudly enough for the guy to hear her scream "help me" and understand the words, I feel she must have either been attacked in the doorway with it open or have made her way to the door and got partly out of it before being dragged back in or something. it is very distressing to think of this but how else could that scream be so loud if the door or window wasn't open? PEople hear a woman scream and do not get involved. Bad practice.

Also that it was cut off so quickly, that doesn't somehow sound like escalating fisticuffs. I have a bad feeling about this now that the police rejected the manslaughter plea.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  wjk on Tue 12 Jul - 21:16

widowan wrote:
wjk wrote:Maybe Tabak met her shortly after she came out of Tesco? Walked with her for the mile home, wouldn't take no for an answer when they got to her front door, she screams, he pushes her into the flat and kills her. Remember, they took the door off and took it to do a thorough forensic test on it.
Was it a text messsage or phone call to the friend she hadn't seen for a while? Not that she couldn't have phoned or text while he was walking along next to her.

widowan, can you point me to where it says she knew Tabak before? I've searched but can't find it! I know I'm not asking much in this short thread

Ugh, it's somewhere in the first six pages of this thread, his architecture firm was connected to the landscape one she worked at and it said that they had worked jointly on projects. I can't recall if that was a print article or via one of those clips, sorry;

Do you think it is a coincidence that he found out her OH would not be home and then managed to find her at Tesco to walk her home? They didn't call or text - her phone was found back at her apt wasn't it? The police would have checked that. He'd have had to know where she was to waylay her on her way home...

It makes sense he could have badgered her all the way home or trailed her and not taken no for an answe at the door however she had time to open and drink a half bottle of cider and to get her outerwear off so that doesn't make much sense from that standpoint.

Maybe he walked her home and then tried to come back and knock again, after being rejected the first time - had time to get irate and work himself up - and when she said I thought I told you to go away - he became unhinged.

I hate the idea of a woman walking that far in the dark even in the early night. I think it is most unsafe. But then I have a level of paranoia around that as I have a daughter, they never think anyone could bother or hurt them and that it's safe as there are people around but you are at the most risk at home, thru family and friends, that has been proven time and again.


I don't think it would have been a coincidence, IF he met her outside Tesco. I'd think he'd followed her. Did she go straight to the pub from work? I can't remember, will go and check. I was just thinking if he was spotted in the pub, leaving shortly after her. If she was at home and went to the pub he could have followed her from there? If she was at work its less likely he would follow her. Anyway, just batting ideas about. Will go and check if she went straight to the pub from work.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  wjk on Tue 12 Jul - 21:37

It seems she went straight to the pub from work, so unless he knew where she worked, he didn't follow her from there.

widowan, did you see the original thread for Jo?
A bit more reading !
http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t13403-jo-yeates

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Wed 13 Jul - 14:56

wjk wrote:It seems she went straight to the pub from work, so unless he knew where she worked, he didn't follow her from there.

widowan, did you see the original thread for Jo?
A bit more reading !
http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t13403-jo-yeates

He did know where she worked. If they had worked on joint projects and even if the didn't, I would imagine with a nosy chatty landlord like they had it'd have been common knowledge that both Jo's partner and VT were architects and that their firms were sort of connected, or had a friendly working relationship.

If you look at the website for her and Greg's company, it's quite nice landscaping they do, this isn't like my "landscaping" gardener who is the lawn service man with a pair of hedge trimmers. They do big fantastic stuff, large buildings etc. And VT's business I believe also did large office complexes and sports venues and the like.

He could have followed her but thinking of why he would do that? He didn't need to follow her or stalk her, he lived next door. Although if he was just totally creepy and obsessed with her he could have done.

I'll go check out your other link!

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  widowan on Wed 13 Jul - 23:09

I went over that thread wjk! Not all of it - skipped from about page 6 to 35 and then to the end.

It was really interesting to see the comments in the light of what we know now. I was impressed with so many people's comments and their sleuthing - Alpine aster, loopdaloop etc but I have to cut this from t4two

The information we have appears to rule out a sexual motive by an opportunist or random killer. Are there people around who get a kick out of strangling young women when the opportunity presents itself without the need to sexually assault them? Well, yes there probably are, but thankfully few and far between and, they don't usually go to all the trouble of removing a body, only to leave it where it can easily be found a few miles away. Added to that, it has been pointed out by posters that an opportunist would hardly follow Jo home, murder her and then go and fetch a car to remove her body from the flat. The idea that such a person would then retain a sock as a trophy doesn't seem very likely either.
So, this narrows motive down to basically three. Financial, unrequited amorous advance or jealousy.
Since there is no indication of Jo being a millionairess who had made a will to leave her millions to a particular person, IMO we can rule out the financial motive. Burglary is probably a none starter too, since there is no sign of a break in and opportunist following home type of suspect has already been ruled out. If the police are convinced that the murder took place inside her flat because she was not wearing coat, footwear and missing one sock, then unrequited amorous advance or jealousy would seem to be frontrunners for motive. This narrows the suspects down to boyfriend, landlord, close neighbour or ... someone who hasn't appeared on the scene yet, such as an old boyfriend or someone who wanted to be the new boyfriend. I suspect the solution will be found in forensic evidence from the flat,

-----------------------------------------------------

as indeed it was - dna on the body, and the dna sweep - they might have said they were doing all the men in the area just to keep the suspect from thinking they were honing in on him, but you can bet they checked Jeffries and the BF and I would hope the neighbor VT.

People did not do a bad idea of narrowing it down when they had the same information as the cops did.

The pizza remains as mystery along with the motive although I think the unrequited amorous advance obviously is the way to go. The guy would have no reason to leap up and strangle her for no reason and there's unlikely to be a different one. Had he been an incpient serial killler and decided she'd be a good first target - because trusting and he knew her habits etc - he'd have planned better in terms of hiding the body as kitti said

someone mentioned the fact, and it is a fact police have notes as well, that people killed by strangers in their own home, don't have their body taken out of the home whereas people killed by someone who lives there or close by would do.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

Post  wjk on Wed 13 Jul - 23:19

It's a good read, isn't it.
I had a quick look over it earlier to remind myself of things that were said at the start.
Its amazing how much you forget over time.
It will be an interesting one to follow when it comes to court, for sure.

OT I wonder where T4two is?
Not seen him around for a while.

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Re: jo yeates - Updated:Tabak charged with murder

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