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Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

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Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Oldartform on Tue 14 Jun - 0:19

Going on public opinion of the Mcs at the moment, dare any of us imagine what will happen if SY clear them of any involvement in Maddie`s disappearance. It doesn`t bear thinking about I know, but what if?

I`ve always thought they`d up sticks and disappear to South America like most criminals do - because their life surely wouldn`t be worth living in this country anymore. They`ve probably been secreting money away for this event anyway, maybe via Halligen.


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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  claire ant on Tue 14 Jun - 0:36

Oldartform wrote:Going on public opinion of the Mcs at the moment, dare any of us imagine what will happen if SY clear them of any involvement in Maddie`s disappearance. It doesn`t bear thinking about I know, but what if?

I`ve always thought they`d up sticks and disappear to South America like most criminals do - because their life surely wouldn`t be worth living in this country anymore. They`ve probably been secreting money away for this event anyway, maybe via Halligen.


I don't know about South America, but I think most English speaking countries know very well who the McCann's are and their departure from England would start tongues wagging where ever they landed and attempted to set up residence. Those who did not know the McCann's before would hear stories and start checking the internet and the story would be front and centre all over again. I think the expression is ..."You can run but you can't hide", and that seems fitting in this case. In fact, I suspect that it would be worse for them if they attempted to leave England. Claire Ant

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Angelique on Tue 14 Jun - 0:36

Oldartform

Well - I'm glad you brought this up and - yes- it's a possibility which I have been thinking about.

They must have been doing something with all the cash they have got from the Fund, media and newspaper articles. So no it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that they do steal away after the investigation is over and done with. It cant end any other way IMO. I cant see any charges being brought against the McCanns in this Country and the Portuguese won't do anything unless the McCanns return. Even if a body were to turn up at this late stage it would not be of any use. This is looking like it will be the final scenario. Poor Madeleine.

I think the reason we don't see much of Gerry at the moment is probably to do with the Hospital where he works. They have presumably suggested to him to keep his head down.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  dumouchelwolf on Tue 14 Jun - 1:13

I can't imagine it and if by some fluke they get away with this.

Then all faith in the belief that the SY are the best to deal with this case hits rock bottom.

IF sy do the job correctly and efficently and look at all papers etc concerning this case then they should know that the Macs are telling a few porkies

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Dimsie on Tue 14 Jun - 1:39

I don't really understand how SY can 'clear' anyone - that's not usually the job of the police. People can only be cleared if they're charged and taken to court, then they're either cleared or convicted OR if it's known exactly what happened and when it happened and it was impossible for the suspect to have had anything to do with the crime. If SY can tell us when Madeleine disappeared and who took her, and how and why she was taken, then that will be excellent police work. But if they can't do that, then no one is cleared, anyone with the means of removing Madeleine from that apartment is still a possible suspect (and that could apply to a lot of people).

I honestly think many people are hoping for too much from this review; it may well be that at the end of it the case will simply be shelved again and any information gathered will be filed away for possible future use. I hope I'm wrong, but even if they suspect strongly that such-and-such happened, they won't be able to proceed with any charges without strong proof.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  whatsupdoc on Tue 14 Jun - 7:43

Agreed, Dimsie. The Review can't clear the M's. It can look at all the available evidence and draw a conclusion and that's about it.

With the main players being the parents and their friends, the answer must "lie" with them...there is nobody else involved...no break-in...no jemmied shutters.

Answers to all the questions have been muddled to confuse us. I think rounding them all up for proper questioning would prove quite revealing.


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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  kitti on Tue 14 Jun - 7:52

What did SY say about the visit to PDL in 2007?


I'm quite sure that IF SY came to any different scenario than the PJ.... We Would off heard about it.


PJ and LP came to the same conclusion, in fact, it was the BRITISH that came to the concusion FIRST that Madeleine was dead....so how can SY come to any other conclusion.....they can't .



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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Oldartform on Tue 14 Jun - 9:52

Dimsie wrote:I don't really understand how SY can 'clear' anyone - that's not usually the job of the police. People can only be cleared if they're charged and taken to court, then they're either cleared or convicted OR if it's known exactly what happened and when it happened and it was impossible for the suspect to have had anything to do with the crime. If SY can tell us when Madeleine disappeared and who took her, and how and why she was taken, then that will be excellent police work. But if they can't do that, then no one is cleared, anyone with the means of removing Madeleine from that apartment is still a possible suspect (and that could apply to a lot of people).

I honestly think many people are hoping for too much from this review; it may well be that at the end of it the case will simply be shelved again and any information gathered will be filed away for possible future use. I hope I'm wrong, but even if they suspect strongly that such-and-such happened, they won't be able to proceed with any charges without strong proof.

Hello Dimsie - I didn`t really use the right word - no, SY can`t `clear` them, but they could still come out looking whiter than white and misrepresenting the outcome.

I believe their report is not going to be made public anyway, but I assume they will have sight of the report as they were the ones that asked for it. Seems odd when they are the main suspects as far as the PJ are concerned.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  nospinnaker on Tue 14 Jun - 10:08

I can't see the Scotland Yard effort leaving the McCanns as 'Whiter than White'. That would be a massive task, and the only way it could be accomplished would be the discovery of poor Madeleine, her return to the parents, and the credible prosecution of whoever was responsible for her abduction. Quite a challenge, so much so that it's not going to happen any day soon.

The McCanns depend upon the 'abduction' and the likelihood of Madeleine still being alive for their freedom and their reputation. The Fund Ltd relies on those things too; the moment Madeleine is declared dead the fund dies. So the dodgy doctors will continue the act for as long as they can cling on to it.

Scotland Yard - or at any rate whichever organisation performs the enquiries - has a very high profile case on its hands. Everyone will be watching. The ongoing enquiry will, quite rightly, not be fed to the press, nor will it be fed to Team McCann. They will of course pretend that it is, they'll likely pretend that they're actually in charge of the investigation, with plenty of opportunity for Clarence to reprise his 'Pretendy Cop' press conference act.

The end game has to be better than a fudge, and it doesn't have to end with a conviction. Merely a pronouncement, backed by evidence of sufficient strength to convince the public, if not a jury, that Dr Amaral's theories were in all likelihood correct, would be quite sufficient to shut the pair up and send them scurrying back home with their tails between their legs. Such a pronouncement from Scotland Yard, or from a government minister would carry the gravitas required to satisfy most people.

They can't end up whiter than white. You can't polish, well, you can't polish the McCanns, can you?

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Oldartform on Tue 14 Jun - 10:15

Nospinnaker - thanks for that - you seem to have clarity of mind. Yes, I suppose its pretty set in stone that they will do the `pretendy` bit.

Anyone know if there`s been any reports of the SY fellas arriving in Portgual yet?


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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Me on Tue 14 Jun - 11:59

whatsupdoc wrote:Agreed, Dimsie. The Review can't clear the M's. It can look at all the available evidence and draw a conclusion and that's about it.

With the main players being the parents and their friends, the answer must "lie" with them...there is nobody else involved...no break-in...no jemmied shutters.

Answers to all the questions have been muddled to confuse us. I think rounding them all up for proper questioning would prove quite revealing.


And that’s the scam that Carter Ruck have used on all opponents to press. To use the final PJ report as confirmation they have been “cleared”.

As has been pointed out elsewhere a civil servant (the prosecutor who wrote the final report) can’t clear anyone, only a judge and a court can. No judge or court has done this.

Which is why Carter Ruck have been unsuccessful in closing down blogs. And whilst we’re on the subject of Menezes’ report which carter Ruck use as the exoneration stick with which to frighten off dissenters, lest we forget this nugget from said “McCann exoneration report”:

"...in order to form as firm a conviction as possible about what was seen by Jane Tanner and the others involved and, eventually, to dismiss once and for all & any doubts that may subsist concerning the innocence of the missing child's parents."

And let’s not forget what the judges in the Amaral case said:

"What is certain is that since the start of the investigation, there were incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements, the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them, the movements of people immediately after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?), etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the aforementioned sniffer dogs."

"Where Amaral differs from the Prosecutors who wrote the dispatch, is in the logical, police-work-related and investigative interpretation that he [Amaral] makes of those facts."

We need, the judges say, to stress the following: the facts that led to the applicants' constitution as arguidos within the inquiry were later on not sufficiently valued by the Public Ministry's Prosecutors to lead to a criminal accusation, but those very same facts, seen from a different angle, may lead to a different conclusion from that of the prosecutors.

Suggestive data ("indications") that were deemed to be insufficient in terms of evidence in a criminal investigation, can be appreciated in a different way, in an interpretation that can legitimately be published as a book, as long as the interpretation does not offend any fundamental rights of anyone involved. In our view that said interpretation does not offend the applicants' rights."

So the only time a court has had a proper look at the evidence they have hardly cleared the McCann’s have they? They’ve simply stated the evidence against them is not sufficient, (we know that), that the case is incomplete (we know that), as a result of an unwillingness of the main witnesses (the Tapas 9) to take part in a reconstruction and submit to further questioning (we know that).

The point of this is that surely any police force investigating the information that’s in those files will come to exactly the same conclusions as the PJ (UK police), prosecutors and Judges.

The only credible lead for further investigation is the McCann’s and their friends.

Any other conclusion will be a spectacular whitewash given the evidence that’s there at the moment.

The problem that SY have is that the files are in the public domain. We have the same information they have. So if they come to any other conclusion based on the information they are working from then they will be quite easily caught out and exposed.

I can’t see any way that this “review” helps the McCann’s because there is nothing in there that clears them, only information that points a finger and then adds further suspicion by highlighting their inconsistences and their abject refusal to straighten those inconsistences out to allow the case to move forward.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  duncanmac on Tue 14 Jun - 13:20

Surely SY will have access to all the files, including the witheld files.
There is obviously information of interest in them that we do not know.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  fred on Tue 14 Jun - 13:30

duncanmac wrote:Surely SY will have access to all the files, including the witheld files.
There is obviously information of interest in them that we do not know.

And that is what the Mccanns have been wanting to get their grubby paws on since the case was shelved.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  mummy45 on Tue 14 Jun - 13:41

I don't think that is the purpose of this though. Clear them of what? I think it may open their eyes to certain things and I too hope the with held info will be available as this is the ONLY thing the McCanns have ever been interested in in terms of a review. They have covered their arses on other matters via the stupid book but they need the withheld information to complete the job.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  kitti on Tue 14 Jun - 14:37

They won't be able to rest until they get the withheld files....simple as that.

How can they.....imagine if someone had something on you and you knew they had something ....what would you do......


A....go away and forget about it


B....be very worried that some time down the line this information will come out so do everything you could to get your hands on it.


I don't think I could live everyday waking up and thinking ......this could be the day....

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Angelique on Tue 14 Jun - 14:40

kitti wrote:They won't be able to rest until they get the withheld files....simple as that.

How can they.....imagine if someone had something on you and you knew they had something ....what would you do......


A....go away and forget about it


B....be very worried that some time down the line this information will come out so do everything you could to get your hands on it.


I don't think I could live everyday waking up and thinking ......this could be the day....

kitti

I hope what you say is true - that someone can't live everyday waking up and thinking - perhaps today's the day I fess up!

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  duncanmac on Tue 14 Jun - 15:05

This is the reason they continue to stay in public view.
They know that whilst Mr Amaral and the undisclosed files are still at large they will never be in the clear.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  mummy45 on Tue 14 Jun - 15:18

I think they are trying to double bluff the public and the police ie Anyone who was really guilty would just disappear from the public view By being so visible and 'out there' they are hoping to convince us all

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  A_T on Tue 14 Jun - 20:56

dumouchelwolf wrote:I can't imagine it and if by some fluke they get away with this.

Then all faith in the belief that the SY are the best to deal with this case hits rock bottom.

IF sy do the job correctly and efficently and look at all papers etc concerning this case then they should know that the Macs are telling a few porkies

But fibs about the checking and the muddled account of the night she vanished won't be enough for any prosecution. The police will have to prove a serious crime has been committed and unless there is some evidence we don't know about or SY find something new the result will be the same as the Portuguese investigation.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Dimsie on Tue 14 Jun - 22:51

A_T wrote:
dumouchelwolf wrote:I can't imagine it and if by some fluke they get away with this.

Then all faith in the belief that the SY are the best to deal with this case hits rock bottom.

IF sy do the job correctly and efficently and look at all papers etc concerning this case then they should know that the Macs are telling a few porkies

But fibs about the checking and the muddled account of the night she vanished won't be enough for any prosecution. The police will have to prove a serious crime has been committed and unless there is some evidence we don't know about or SY find something new the result will be the same as the Portuguese investigation.
True, and that's why I think the end result of this review may well be back to the case being shelved once again. I HOPE of course that something new comes to light, or that fresh thinking on some aspect of the case might bear fruit, but I'm realistic enough to know that it might not happen like that. One thing is certain though and that's that unless SY can prove - not just say they think - Madeleine was abducted, there's no way that will put paid to suspicions about what really might have happened to her. The Portuguese have made it clear they don't favour the theory of abduction over the other theories mentioned in the summing up, and the fact remains that it's their case, it's not a British one. If SY wish to persuade anyone that Madeleine was abducted, they'll have to prove it. If they say she wasn't abducted but instead died and her body removed, they'll have to prove that too. Otherwise, back to square one.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Angelique on Tue 14 Jun - 22:57

Dimsie

Good points - but you must admit its very neatly done is it not.

This is exactly what the McCanns and the Tapas7 wanted.

It will go nowhere either way.

Nicely parceled up and put back on the shelf.


I sincerely believe that this is what will happen. I don't want this - but what can we do. Whoever was in charge of manipulating this ending was extremely clever.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  squeaker on Tue 14 Jun - 22:59

Why don't conflicting stories count as evidence? Since the book, with history rewritten, there are lots of things that they have changed their minds about, as well as the famous jemmied/unjemmied shutters and the locked/unlocked door. If stories change, then there must be lies! Why are the key people allowed to lie and not be properly questioned?

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Angelique on Tue 14 Jun - 23:25

squeaker.

Yes this is the really annoying thing about this situation.

It doesn't matter about that fact that key people lie or even distort the truth anymore. The case won't re-open unless new evidence/body comes to light.

If the Portuguese request the Tapas9 to return for a reconstruction - the McCanns will deploy their extradition lawyers.

If anyone in this Country prints anything which throws up these inconsistences they will deploy their lawyers.




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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  aqeleega on Wed 15 Jun - 0:10

I have read elsewhere that the McCanns are saying on their official facebook page to send all relevant information to THEM and they will "pass it on" and that CEOP are directing people to Leicestershire Police not Scotland Yard.

I don't know what to think.

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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

Post  Oldartform on Wed 15 Jun - 0:11

We are all thinking that the PJ could be rather disgruntled at SY checking their work, but maybe its what they`ve been hoping for. Maybe its the only way they can bring the Mcs to justice, by luring the Mcs own country`s justice system into the case. It was always going to prove difficult for the PJ to bring a case once they`d escaped Portugal and as we know the friends wouldn`t go back for a re-construction and the PJ couldn`t force them.

Maybe there is more unreleased information - and the simple sharing of it with SY could do the trick. Yes, it could damage PJ egos a bit, but worth it to get the desired result. And it would also prove the PJ were right all along.


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Re: Can you imagine the public outcry if SY clear them

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