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Pat Brown update

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  LJC on Fri 4 Nov - 14:44

Panda wrote:
Justiceforallkids wrote:
Christine wrote:I don't understand why Pat goes for libel. Could anyone explain?

i guess because they had her book censored ?

When Pat Brown was interviewed on T.V. she said her theory was based on the information available,a bit like Amaral, I suppose both would have to prove Madeleine is dead, as the McCanns keep saying "there is no evidence that she is dead." A Judge would make a decision on the known evidence and the
law of averages I suppose since neither can prove their theories.

The only way death can be proved, as I see it, is if the police charge the McCanns with a 'no body murder' and bring a case outlining the evidence to hand before a Judge. The fact that this has never happened means there is insufficient evidence, or that the evidence is corrupted by distortion and would never stand up in a court of law. We just have to hope that SY can unearth some new evidence to bring about a 'no body murder' charge.

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  mumbles on Fri 4 Nov - 16:38

Christine wrote:I don't understand why Pat goes for libel. Could anyone explain?

That question has been bugging me all day... so I did some searching.

This is from Pat's blog:
In the end, the issue remains between the McCanns and Pat Brown and a court of law should either party wish to go there as to whether the Profile of the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann is libelous or their claims that my book is libelous are libelous!

And there we have it. ( I think)

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Colonel Fabien on Fri 4 Nov - 16:39

Panda wrote:
Justiceforallkids wrote:
Christine wrote:I don't understand why Pat goes for libel. Could anyone explain?

i guess because they had her book censored ?

When Pat Brown was interviewed on T.V. she said her theory was based on the information available,a bit like Amaral, I suppose both would have to prove Madeleine is dead, as the McCanns keep saying "there is no evidence that she is dead." A Judge would make a decision on the known evidence and the
law of averages I suppose since neither can prove their theories.

Wrong, neither party has to prove Maddie is dead or alive. This is about libel. I presume that the McCanns' lawyers wrote libellous things about Pat Brown in their correspondance with Amazon. This is just my opinion. For the book ban neither party had to prove Maddie's death or not. The point is not relevant to the case.

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Colonel Fabien on Fri 4 Nov - 16:42

Just read what Pat Brown wrote in her blog. The McCanns' lawyers claimed her book was libellous and had it taken off of Amazon for that reason. It seems logical that their claim could be libellous.

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  wjk on Fri 4 Nov - 17:22

Colonel Fabien wrote:Just read what Pat Brown wrote in her blog. The McCanns' lawyers claimed her book was libellous and had it taken off of Amazon for that reason. It seems logical that their claim could be libellous.
So, because they said the book was libellous, that means they made a libellous comment about Pat?

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  gillyspot on Fri 4 Nov - 17:50

It is really though I suppose. I think Pat is just as interested in justice for Madeleine. The "Pros are saying it is because of the money but at £2 per book (even by internet) she is hardly making a fortune out of it. Particularly when at the same time Kate's "novel" was priced at £14. Also Amazon would have wanted at least £1 out of the £2 from Pat for admin charges.

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  NoStone on Fri 4 Nov - 18:49

Will Pat testify in Amaral's defence!!!???? If so - WOW! - that really would give him a great chance of defending the Mc's claim against him.

So, the Mc's are left with a choice, go ahead with the case against Amaral and possibly loose and then face Pat's actions, or withdraw from suing Amaral and save all the fund's resources (money) to defend against Pat!?

In a way the case against Amaral now becomes a 'must win' case as it would give them the money and something of a legal argument to use to defend themselves aganst Pat's case. All-in-all the cosy world the Mc's have enjoyed behind the cloak of secrecy is rapidly becoming more a case of the emporor's clothes!!

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Panda on Fri 4 Nov - 19:33

NoStone wrote:Will Pat testify in Amaral's defence!!!???? If so - WOW! - that really would give him a great chance of defending the Mc's claim against him.

So, the Mc's are left with a choice, go ahead with the case against Amaral and possibly loose and then face Pat's actions, or withdraw from suing Amaral and save all the fund's resources (money) to defend against Pat!?

In a way the case against Amaral now becomes a 'must win' case as it would give them the money and something of a legal argument to use to defend themselves aganst Pat's case. All-in-all the cosy world the Mc's have enjoyed behind the cloak of secrecy is rapidly becoming more a case of the emporor's clothes!!

Hi NoStone, I understand Pat is going to Portugal and presume she will meet Amaral to discuss information he has which she might need. Amaral won
the injunction appeal because his theory that Madeleine died in 5a was one of the theories in the PJ Final Report. Colonel Fabien said earlier that no
one has to prove whether Madeleine is dead or alive to prove Libel so presumably Pat will use the same argument, that the theory is in the PJ Report.
I presume the McCanns will have to prove that Amaral"s Book hindered the search for Madeleine,,,,,,,how do they do that? Did everyone stop who
read the Book which is published in Portugese, so every English speaking Country could carry on searching???

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Loveday on Fri 4 Nov - 21:15

Is it a crime to hinder the search?

Nobody is obliged to search for Madeleine. I could run out into the streets and shout 'Don't search for Madeleine McCann!' at the top of my voice for days on end if I wanted to. People don't have to listen to me.

Who do they think they are?

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  AnnaEsse on Fri 4 Nov - 21:28

Loveday wrote:Is it a crime to hinder the search?

Nobody is obliged to search for Madeleine. I could run out into the streets and shout 'Don't search for Madeleine McCann!' at the top of my voice for days on end if I wanted to. People don't have to listen to me.

Who do they think they are?

They are people who hindered the search for their own daughter by hiring detective agencies that had no previous experience of searching for missing children.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Panda on Fri 4 Nov - 21:47

They really have got a nerve!!! However, this wasn"t Carter Ruck advising the Mccanns, it was Ed Smethurst, a Corporate Lawyer who probably thought
up the plan and the McCanns were rubbing their hands at the thought of E1.2 million compensation

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  keepingmum on Sat 5 Nov - 11:28

AnnaEsse wrote:
Loveday wrote:Is it a crime to hinder the search?

Nobody is obliged to search for Madeleine. I could run out into the streets and shout 'Don't search for Madeleine McCann!' at the top of my voice for days on end if I wanted to. People don't have to listen to me.

Who do they think they are?

They are people who hindered the search for their own daughter by hiring detective agencies that had no previous experience of searching for missing children.
Gosh, I wonder why they would want to do that??

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  kitti on Sat 5 Nov - 12:47

Why is mr amarals book sold on amazon yet pat browns isn't.

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Panda on Sat 5 Nov - 13:00

kitti wrote:Why is mr amarals book sold on amazon yet pat browns isn't.

I would imagine it"s because Amaral"s book is not in English so would not be read by many in English Speaking Countries, besides which amarals" book is
the subject of a Libel case which has to be proved.

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Sat 5 Nov - 13:34

NoStone wrote:Will Pat testify in Amaral's defence!!!???? If so - WOW! - that really would give him a great chance of defending the Mc's claim against him.

So, the Mc's are left with a choice, go ahead with the case against Amaral and possibly loose and then face Pat's actions, or withdraw from suing Amaral and save all the fund's resources (money) to defend against Pat!?

In a way the case against Amaral now becomes a 'must win' case as it would give them the money and something of a legal argument to use to defend themselves aganst Pat's case. All-in-all the cosy world the Mc's have enjoyed behind the cloak of secrecy is rapidly becoming more a case of the emporor's clothes!!

Arh remember though NS Kate did informs us a while back that Adam Tudor at Carter Ruck are still working hard behind the scenes for no extra fee, so possible they could work for free helping them fight Pat, who knows

From Kate McCann's book, pages 289-290:

“Adam Tudor and his colleagues [at Carter-Ruck] continue to do a vast amount of work for us, without payment, most of it quietly, behind the scenes…”


Last edited by Lillyofthevalley on Sat 5 Nov - 13:46; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add)

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Sat 5 Nov - 13:38

Panda wrote:They really have got a nerve!!! However, this wasn"t Carter Ruck advising the Mccanns, it was Ed Smethurst, a Corporate Lawyer who probably thought
up the plan and the McCanns were rubbing their hands at the thought of E1.2 million compensation

Wonder what Carter Ruck think about the McCanns libel case against Snr Amaral, if this wasn't anything to do with them

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Angelique on Sat 5 Nov - 15:35

Lillyofthevalley wrote:
Panda wrote:They really have got a nerve!!! However, this wasn"t Carter Ruck advising the Mccanns, it was Ed Smethurst, a Corporate Lawyer who probably thought
up the plan and the McCanns were rubbing their hands at the thought of E1.2 million compensation

Wonder what Carter Ruck think about the McCanns libel case against Snr Amaral, if this wasn't anything to do with them

Panda

You know a fair amount about Corporate Law - what would be the grounds do you think?

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  NoStone on Sat 5 Nov - 20:53

Lillyofthevalley wrote:
NoStone wrote:Will Pat testify in Amaral's defence!!!???? If so - WOW! - that really would give him a great chance of defending the Mc's claim against him.

So, the Mc's are left with a choice, go ahead with the case against Amaral and possibly loose and then face Pat's actions, or withdraw from suing Amaral and save all the fund's resources (money) to defend against Pat!?

In a way the case against Amaral now becomes a 'must win' case as it would give them the money and something of a legal argument to use to defend themselves aganst Pat's case. All-in-all the cosy world the Mc's have enjoyed behind the cloak of secrecy is rapidly becoming more a case of the emporor's clothes!!

Arh remember though NS Kate did informs us a while back that Adam Tudor at Carter Ruck are still working hard behind the scenes for no extra fee, so possible they could work for free helping them fight Pat, who knows

From Kate McCann's book, pages 289-290:

“Adam Tudor and his colleagues [at Carter-Ruck] continue to do a vast amount of work for us, without payment, most of it quietly, behind the scenes…”

Perhaps Lillyofthevalley - but I think there is a difference between working quietly behind the scenes for free - and putting your reputation on the line by taking on a Criminal Profiler of Pat Brown's reputation on a much more straight forward argument!!!

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Annabel on Sat 5 Nov - 21:07

Old article from Spudgun

Madeleine McCann- AMAZON changes its mind on CENSORSHIP

http://spudgunsspoutings.blogspot.com/2011/07/normal-0-false-false-false-en-gb-x-none.html

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Panda on Sat 5 Nov - 21:12

Angelique wrote:
Lillyofthevalley wrote:
Panda wrote:They really have got a nerve!!! However, this wasn"t Carter Ruck advising the Mccanns, it was Ed Smethurst, a Corporate Lawyer who probably thought
up the plan and the McCanns were rubbing their hands at the thought of E1.2 million compensation

Wonder what Carter Ruck think about the McCanns libel case against Snr Amaral, if this wasn't anything to do with them

Panda

You know a fair amount about Corporate Law - what would be the grounds do you think?

Not sure what you mean Angelique but it was Ed Smethurst who went to Portugal with Gerry, presumably to discuss with Gerry"s Lawyer the Libel Suit.

Smethurst is the Corporate Lawyer for Brian Kennedy so might not be too clued up on Libel Law... which is why Amaral was able to get the injunction
lifted. I would think Carter Ruck would look at the charges, "the whole family ill, hindering the search "etc and say the case was weak. The one thing
to my mind was they forgot Amaral"s Book was in a foreign language which would limit the charge of hindering the search.

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  gillyspot on Sat 5 Nov - 21:28

The judge said that Amaral's book did not cause distress to the family as all the information was in the public eye anyway (or something like that).

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Dimsie on Sat 5 Nov - 21:39

Would these parents who complain about search-hindering be the same parents who spend their time on junkets from one foreign country to another - a sort of world tour - touting a book that in effect is Kate McCann's autobiography? So when are THEY searching for Madeleine then? There's no way they can complain about any lack of searching or anything hindering searching for their daughter when we haven't yet seen or heard of them doing any searching themselves. I'm sure selling Kate's life story is pretty lucrative and gets them plenty of happy travel away from home and family, but it certainly can't ever be called searching for their missing daughter.

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  ann_chovey on Sat 5 Nov - 21:49

Dimsie wrote:Would these parents who complain about search-hindering be the same parents who spend their time on junkets from one foreign country to another - a sort of world tour - touting a book that in effect is Kate McCann's autobiography? So when are THEY searching for Madeleine then? There's no way they can complain about any lack of searching or anything hindering searching for their daughter when we haven't yet seen or heard of them doing any searching themselves. I'm sure selling Kate's life story is pretty lucrative and gets them plenty of happy travel away from home and family, but it certainly can't ever be called searching for their missing daughter.

Very well put Dimsie, when the various 'sightings' have been made public all we get (usually from Clarence) is 'Kate and Gerry don't want to get their hopes up bla blah'...why not? If it were my child that were missing I'd be on the first plane. They usually are, except it's in the opposite direction to promote some fund raising event or similar. V. annoying and unhelpful i.m.o. What a pair they are.

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  Panda on Sat 5 Nov - 21:56

How can they possibly say they are searching for Madeleine when instead of paying the going rate for detectives experienced in searching for missing
children, they pay Detectives more experienced in money laundering? David Edgar has not come up with one clue since the Barcelona fiasco and the
Fund should not be paying him, but they have to keep him on, on a P/T basis as proof they are still searching.

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Re: Pat Brown update

Post  gillyspot on Sat 5 Nov - 21:58

This latest Indian non sighting really showed them up when the Indian Deputy Chief of Police said would be honoured but there was no child (to photograph of get DNA from) Yet Kate McCann (and Clarrie) said had seen the photo and it sadly wasn't Madeleine.

Shame no UK media has the guts to share this important nugget of information with us mere mortals.

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Re: Pat Brown update

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