Missing Madeleine
Come join us...there's more inside you cannot see as a guest!

Statement Analysis

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Statement Analysis

Post  interested on Sun 27 Nov - 1:38

An analysis of Kate McCann's diary will be forthcoming at seamusoriley.blogspot.com. The announcement is dated Saturday, November 26, 2011. The diary notes are posted; the analysis will be on a new post. Expect this will be of interest.

interested
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 2423
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  ProfessorPlum on Sun 27 Nov - 16:13

Who is he?

ProfessorPlum
Rookie
Rookie

Female
Number of posts : 139
Age : 59
Location : The wild side of life.
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-02-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  interested on Sun 27 Nov - 18:15

Peter Hyatt seeks to discern truth from deception and has a website and a talk radio show where he has covered many high profile cases, including the Amanda Knox case, among many others. His website is linked to "50 facts about the Maddie case that the British media are not telling you" (Jill Havern).

interested
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 2423
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  interested on Sun 27 Nov - 19:32

Forgot to mention the "comments" are very interesting and the majority appear to be from readers who are very familar with the McCanns' deception.

interested
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 2423
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  ann_chovey on Sun 27 Nov - 19:52

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/

comment: Why does she repeatedly ask God yo bring her back? Wouldn't she ask God to keep her baby safe, and ask for his help finding her? It sounds like she's pleading with God to bring her back...to life.

correct. i.m.o.

ann_chovey
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Female
Number of posts : 2516
Location : France
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  interested on Fri 2 Dec - 19:26

With so many cases in the news I notice Peter Hyatt has not had a chance to up-date his November 26 announcement re Kate McCann's diary. For those of you who may not as yet visited his website, you may be interested to read the comments which have accumulated. You will find them listed under the November Archive (found on the right hand side of the page) and under the sub-heading "Announcement: Kate McCann's Diary". I am looking forward to this analysis of the case as well as Pat Brown's interest. I've always thought the more U.S. attention the better.

interested
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 2423
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  interested on Sun 4 Dec - 20:18

Statement Anaysis has a report on what is becoming too familiar, another missing child supposedly abducted or stolen during a carjacking while in the care of her father. The father has reportedly failed a polygraph.

interested
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 2423
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  interested on Mon 5 Dec - 0:11

Statement Analysis: Diary of Kate McCann Part 1 has now been posted at the link above provided by ann chovey on Sunday, 27 November, 2011. Sorry, I can't "do" links and thank you to ann chovey for providing same.

interested
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 2423
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  HiDeHo on Mon 5 Dec - 1:26

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/

Sunday, December 04, 2011Statement Analysis: Diary of Kate McCann Part I
The following is analysis of the diary of missing Madeleine McCann's mother's diary.


A diary is a form of communication, therefore, it is subject to analysis. Anything that is intended for communication can be set to analysis.


Statement Analysis, in all its forms, is not wooden, but it is fluid. Local dialect, expressions, education level, and so on, are all part of the analysis; but none of these things exempt the subject from analysis. Many seek to excuse or 'give a pass' of one way or another, by employing one of these topics. If someone communicates through sarcasm, we will recognize not only the sarcasm, but the words chosen, as they do not come from a vacuum.


In texting, we are able to employ ongoing techniques of analysis, recognizing patterns.


Please note that everyone has an internal, subjective, personal dictionary, and it is the SCAN technique of Statement Analysis that seeks to 'break the code' of the internal, personal, subjective dictionary, for the purpose of understanding.


Here is an example of applying principle in a fluid manner:


When a statement begins without a pronoun, it is very likely to be a deceptive statement. This is something police find regularly. "Went to the store..." begins without a pronoun, and it is an indication that the subject wishes to distance himself from the topic.


In texting or emails, we find that pronouns are often missing.


Does this negate analysis?


No.


Since texting or emailing often does not use pronouns, but abbreviations, our principle of analysis is to note the pronouns always:


If an email, for example, begins without a pronoun, we will not flag this for deception but we will note when a pronoun does, actually, appear, as highly significant.


In diary writing, we note names, spelling, and abbreviations.


When Kate writes, "M" referring to her daughter, we should seek to learn what causes her to write out the full name of her daughter in other entries. Pronouns (and proper names) remain important, as we seek to identify the subject's baseline of writing. If, for example, the email is known to have few pronouns, we recognize that this can be the norm; so that when a pronoun does suddenly appear, it should be flagged as important.


Education, intelligence, dialect, culture, and so on, does not negate analysis. Nor does writing styles.


Next, we know that pronouns and verb tenses are learned very early in life, with some pre dating speech ("my, mine" can be communicated from very young children even before annunciation is clear). By the age of 5 (or an adult with cognitive disabilities who functions as a 5 year old) understands past, present, and future.


We may make adjustments as we go along, but if the purpose of the writing or speaking is to communicate, analysis can be done.


In understanding this case, we will be doing over time, more analysis, particularly if the original interrogation transcripts become available.


Some of the analysis questions:


Why was the diary written? What is its purpose?
When was the diary written?
Intended audience?


We will note such principles as order, priority and substance.

Diary Notes - May 2007
Autumn on Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:22 pm
THURSDAY, MAY 3: Milk and biscuits for the kids. I left them with this and books and games and went to have a quick shower/wash my hair. M tired—sitting on my lap—I read the story of Mog.

Note "left" as a verb; generally speaks to as missing information, 70% time, 30% sensitive. The 70% time usually indicates a sense of rushing or being hurried. The 30% sensitive is the unknown. The context here shows a slight increase in tension:


Note "sitting"; When body posture enters a statement, there is often an increase in tension, therefore, we flag "sit, sat, stood, standing, sitting" and so on, as sensitive for a possible increase in tension. She "left" them with milk and biscuits;
Next note the inclusion of "shower/wash" in a statement often is associated with sexual abuse. Please note that this is not a statement, but a diary. Therefore, we ask, "why does the subject feel it is important enough to mention? Is this a theme? Does a pattern emerge?


We will call attention to things regarding statement, then seek to learn why they are in a diary. Was the tension due to rushing through the shower, washing of hair, and reading to M?


Note the children are referenced first by "kids".
Next, note "M" is the initial of her daughter. Note where she is called "M"


Note, however, that no other child is specified by name nor initial.



Brush teeth. To the bedroom with the kids. M pulls away and puts her head on pillow. Kisses goodnight for M. Pulled the door to as far as possible without shutting it. Silence.

Dry hair. Put make-up on. Glass of wine. Restaurant.

Note that "brushing teeth" is rarely found in statements and usually indicates withheld information about personal relationship; often domestic violence.


Why the need to include brushing teeth in a diary, since brushing teeth is something always done by all of us?


This should be considered sensitive.

Note "kids" mentioned again, but no name of the kids other than "M"


Why are the other children not mentioned by name?


Note what did not happen as important: she finds it important to tell us that she did not close the door.


"M pulls away" is interesting. Why did M pull away? From whom or what did she pull away?


Why do the other kids not have names or initials used?


Note that dry hair, make up and restaurant all have to do with subject; not child.


FRIDAY, MAY 4: No sleep, Gerry and I started looking through the streets around 06.00 as it was starting to get light. Nobody around. Why not? Desperate.

Minutes seem like hours. Outside of the apartments masses of people asking questions about that night and for descriptions of Madeleine. Long day.

Note "Gerry and I" is used. Since this is a diary, why not use the pronoun "we"?
Note all the dropped pronouns as a consistent pattern. Diary writing is brief, so we will assume that the shortest sentence is the most likely, including dropped pronouns. Therefore, why "Gerry and I"?


Next note that something is reported to have started ("started looking" and "starting to get light") but without completion.


Note as important, the name "Madeleine" is used here, rather than "M". What is the contextual difference?


"M" is at home, read to, put to bed.
"Madeleine" is missing.


Note people asking questions should be something natural and expected.
Note "long day" as unexpected. It is unexpected that a mother of a missing child would have thoughts on her own care with the words "long day" rather than what Madeline might be going through.

Nobody from the police introduced themselves. Nobody offered us a drink or food. All the police dressed informally and smoking. No sympathy was shown and far from inspiring.

Note the order:


1. Nobody from police introduced themselves.
2. Nobody offered her drink or food.
3. The clothing/appearance of police, and their habit of smoking
4. No one offered sympathy.
5. Far from inspiring.


As yourself: if you were writing a diary about your missing child, what might be the first thing you write about? What might not enter into your thinking?


The order above suggests a very strong concern about the subject herself.


I believe my statement would have been around 15.00 and such. They allowed G to come in with me but seated behind me. Translator present.

The police officer who took us by car to the station was the one asking the questions and afterwards typed the answers on a typewriter. Morose.

Note "G" is used here for Gerry, using the shortest possible.
Note the asking of questions has now been repeated in the short diary, making question asking a sensitive topic.
Note "with" between people shows distance;
note the body posture mentioned.


We left the police station around 7.30pm to 8pm. After 15 minutes we received a call from the PJ saying we had to go back but they didn't tell us why. We turned around and flew back at around 200 kilometres an hour. Once again frightening. Did they find her? Please God. Is she dead? Prayers. We arrived—they showed us a photo of a girl they'd forgotten to show us from the close circuit TV footage. Not M. Devastating.

Note the entrance of the pronoun.
"We left..." rather than the usual short, "Left". Note in this entry how pronouns return to use:
the word "we" has a heavy usage here. Why the need for emphasis now?
Note that Madeleine is now "M" again as referred to incorrectly as a picture.
We continue to note the context. While being fed, or put to sleep, and regarding a photo: M
When missing, Madeleine.
Note the questions as important:
Did they find her?
Is she did?


Note that in these two questions, there is a change of verb tense?


Did they find her?
Was she dead? is not used, but "is she dead?"
Note "devastated" does not use a pronoun, though this entry has much used.

SATURDAY, MAY 12: Madeleine is four years old. Day at resort with holiday group. Special Mass for Madeleine at 18.00 in Praia da Luz.

Here, on her birthday, she continues to be "Madeleine" which is a longer writing in a diary than the initial "M"

MONDAY, MAY 14: I slept well last night after a not very good end of the day, frustration with the FLO asking me where would my little M be.

Note the pronoun used here to describe her sleep whereas above it is "no sleep."
Note here the use of the initial, "M"

I got up at 06.50. I dealt with some trifles and got myself ready for the statement to the press at 08.00.

Note the repeated use of "I" here; no shortcuts as before. There is an inconsistency in pronoun use.

I tried to put on a slightly more presentable and "healthy" air. Gerry again gave a great performance.


Note "I" and "Gerry", rather than no pronoun and "G"

end of part 1

HiDeHo
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Female
Number of posts : 1541
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-29

http://madeleinemccann.aimoo.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  frencheuropean on Mon 5 Dec - 9:16

Fascinating and very well deduced from the language patern.

"When Kate writes, "M" referring to her daughter, we should seek to learn what causes her to write out the full name of her daughter in other entries" :
Perhaps she writtes M. when she has to lie about what happened because it's too difficult to associate the full name, the full personnality of her daughter with a huge lie. In this aspect, "Madeleine" should be written when the background is more vague and the memory of the real drama not too close.

frencheuropean
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1187
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-11-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  Christine on Mon 5 Dec - 10:54

To me, this whole diary looks as it is a task for Kate to write it. She wants the world to know how much she cares about Madeleine, but there are no feelings. I think she spend a few minutes every day, glad it is done.

Christine
Golden Poster
Golden Poster

Female
Number of posts : 968
Location : Belgium
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  frencheuropean on Mon 5 Dec - 12:07

Not that innocent: she manages to plant some details invented to reinforce the abduction's theorie. For example, the strange remark about the precise position of the door, is only, imo, made to match their claim, in their statements, that someone ( "the abductor") opened the door between their departure and the Gerry's checking.

frencheuropean
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1187
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-11-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  frencheuropean on Mon 5 Dec - 15:47

Apparently "seamus o realy" is a fictionnal name. Some mention the name of Peter Hyatt who hosts a show?
More info?

frencheuropean
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1187
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-11-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  interested on Mon 5 Dec - 16:19

Interesting comments can be found at the website mentioned above; particularly those from "Hobnob".

interested
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 2423
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  margaret on Mon 5 Dec - 18:39

Diary Notes - May 2007
Autumn on Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:22 pm
THURSDAY, MAY 3: Milk and biscuits for the kids. I left them with this and books and games and went to have a quick shower/wash my hair. M tired—sitting on my lap—I read the story of Mog.

Note "left" as a verb; generally speaks to as missing information, 70% time, 30% sensitive. The 70% time usually indicates a sense of rushing or being hurried. The 30% sensitive is the unknown. The context here shows a slight increase in tension:


Note "sitting"; When body posture enters a statement, there is often an increase in tension, therefore, we flag "sit, sat, stood, standing, sitting" and so on, as sensitive for a possible increase in tension. She "left" them with milk and biscuits;
Next note the inclusion of "shower/wash" in a statement often is associated with sexual abuse. Please note that this is not a statement, but a diary. Therefore, we ask, "why does the subject feel it is important enough to mention? Is this a theme? Does a pattern emerge?

---

Where's the evidence to support that statement! Couldn't he offer a link to somewhere else confirming that?

I take that with a large pinch of salt, you can make anything you want out of 'statement analysis' - unless this is what you do for a living in which case he should not be afraid to say who he is and in what capacity he knows this.

margaret
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Female
Number of posts : 4406
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 5 Dec - 20:28

margaret wrote:Diary Notes - May 2007
Autumn on Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:22 pm
THURSDAY, MAY 3: Milk and biscuits for the kids. I left them with this and books and games and went to have a quick shower/wash my hair. M tired—sitting on my lap—I read the story of Mog.

Note "left" as a verb; generally speaks to as missing information, 70% time, 30% sensitive. The 70% time usually indicates a sense of rushing or being hurried. The 30% sensitive is the unknown. The context here shows a slight increase in tension:


Note "sitting"; When body posture enters a statement, there is often an increase in tension, therefore, we flag "sit, sat, stood, standing, sitting" and so on, as sensitive for a possible increase in tension. She "left" them with milk and biscuits;
Next note the inclusion of "shower/wash" in a statement often is associated with sexual abuse. Please note that this is not a statement, but a diary. Therefore, we ask, "why does the subject feel it is important enough to mention? Is this a theme? Does a pattern emerge?

---

Where's the evidence to support that statement! Couldn't he offer a link to somewhere else confirming that?

I take that with a large pinch of salt, you can make anything you want out of 'statement analysis' - unless this is what you do for a living in which case he should not be afraid to say who he is and in what capacity he knows this.

I agree. I don't know how or why those words are often associated with sexual abuse. Brushing teeth associated with sexual abuse? Doesn't he say that too? No, I don't understand that.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

AnnaEsse
Administrator
Administrator

Female
Number of posts : 18459
Age : 105
Location : Casa Nostra
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-09-23

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  frencheuropean on Mon 5 Dec - 23:01

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/peter-hyatt

It's his blog. There is a photo of him and his wife 'Heather). Next talkshow, apparently on sunday the 11th. Could be interesting Anna to ask him to explain further some of his assertions.

frencheuropean
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1187
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-11-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  kitti on Tue 6 Dec - 7:48

Look at the statement off amanda Knox and when it is broken down it is plain as the nose on your face that she murdered Meredith and if your remember the part where she sat in the other room with her hands over her ears.....I believe she is telling the truth about that....as stated, she probably didn't cast the fatal wound that finally finished merediths life...but she did everything before that.

kitti
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Female
Number of posts : 13376
Age : 106
Location : London
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-06-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  interested on Tue 6 Dec - 16:30

When Amanda Knox was released, it was reported her Italian (ex?) boyfriend would be going to visit her in the U.S. before Christmas. I always thought that would be to get their story straight before publishing their books. Now that she has a new boyfriend in the States, the proposed visit is off but I read yesterday that she has signed with an agent who is shopping her book in the U.S. and her former boyfriend is expected to have his published in Italy. I won't be buying either one but will be interested in reading the reviews and the highlights of each.

interested
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 2423
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  interested on Thu 8 Dec - 3:16


Statement Analysis: KATE McCANN DIARY PART 2 has been posted, Wednesday, December 7, 2011.

Part 2 will be of interest to those who read Part l previously.

Note the comments which are encouraged.

interested
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 2423
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  Annabel on Thu 8 Dec - 5:32

Statement Analysis: Kate McCann Diary Part 2

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/

Annabel
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Female
Number of posts : 3528
Location : Europe
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  frencheuropean on Thu 8 Dec - 10:23

Here the text. Some comments are also interesting:

4,053,145


Wednesday, December 07, 2011Statement Analysis: Kate McCann Diary Part 2
Following on we answered about four questions. I almost responded to the first one asking how we were, but I didn't. I did answer a question on our possible return home. I replied that obviously I didn't even think about that. Anyway, it seemed to have gone well. After breakfast and our having left S and A, we went to church to pray in silence. Very good, calming.

3 lines cover answering questions.


Note "we" and "about" four questions; not an exact answer. Note the change to "I" which is stronger, telling us what wasn't done; always important.
Note that "obviously" is used when the subject wants us to take for granted something without questioning.

Note "S and A" now has the other children mentioned.


After getting back I decided to go running—for the first time since THE day (already 11 days ago). I knew that it was going to be physically difficult, but I also knew that I wasn't going to give up, because it was for Madeleine and also because the level of pain is far higher now.


No cameras or journalists, which was great. I went running towards the beach and then along it and again climbed that hill so steep —without stopping! (I carried a photo of M in my hand to keep me going.) On the last hill past the tennis courts my legs completely weak, but I managed to keep myself walking. I managed to reach the apartment then time to stop—to think—I felt really quite calm.

Note that the subject has 7 lines dedicated to her running with strong use of "I" as central. This is unexpected in a missing baby case.
Note how often the pronoun "I" is used. The context is her running and her emotions (self). This should be noted in comparison when pronouns are missing.


WEDNESDAY, MAY 23: Gordon Brown called and spoke with Gerry -very kind and giving encouragement.


Feeling a bit emotional afterwards.

Full name; important person. Note "Gerry" rather than abbreviation.


SATURDAY, MAY 26: We went to an amusement park with the kids. Some phone calls, emails etc. Not a very good day for either the two of us—some dark thoughts/ frustrations/ desperation creeping in. Some tears.


Note "kids" are now not mentioned by name.


I love you so much XXX


SUNDAY, MAY 27: Clarence spoke to us about a possible trip to the Vatican. It seems that it really is going to happen—main story on the news!


Spoke to Dad. I went for a walk to the beach with Sean and Amelie. Frozen. Beach—slippery, wet feet.

This is the first entrance where the children's names are used. Note that "I" and the word "with" show the furthest distance. The lack of mentioning of the children and now the distancing language is noted.



We all had dinner when we got back to the apartment.


We have to keep looking. We have to find you beloved xxxxx.


"We have to keep looking" is a reminder to keep searching for her child. This is also unexpected as a mother would not need to remind herself in a diary: leading us to ask to whom this is written.






WEDNESDAY, MAY 30: The kids went to bed again around 9pm!!! Low point of tonight—becoming desperate/without hope because of the lack of information. They are acting like they have no leads at all. Very worried.

Unknown as to why the sentence "the kids went to bed again around 9pm" would receive three exclamation marks.
"Very worried" has no pronoun, which is unusual since the diary uses pronouns in large amount, especially the use of "I" associated with running, above. This is unexpected and a weak assertion of being "very worried" and will cause doubt.


Tomorrow it will be 4 weeks since Madeleine was taken. Four weeks since we saw our special little girl. We are not certain that we will ever see her again, but know that we have to keep up our hope and strength—for the others, at least. Exhausted.

this is troubling:
1. Note Madeleine "was taken" is passive and not "kidnapped" which is stronger.
2. Note the absence of the pronoun, "I" in relation to Madeleine is highly unexpected by a mother.
3. Note how often "we" is used
4. Note "our" special little child uses "our", something often seen where a step parent is involved, or divorce is discussed.
5. Note that this is inconsistent: "we" are not writing the diary, but "I" am
6. Note that when the subject speaks of herself, there are more lines, but when she writes of Madeleine, there are less.
7. Note "but know" is missing pronoun: "but I know" would be stronger; here it is not even "we know"


The diary should be either written by one or written by two, and the change back and forth will cause some to question the veracity of the subject: is the subject writing to keep a record of her emotions, her activities? Is it therapeutic?


Or: Is this an attempt to persuade readership?


I love you so much, Madeleine. You must come back! X

"You" must come back; not "I" must get you back, etc








Diary Notes - June 2007


FRIDAY, JUNE 1: Quite fed up...I can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear of pain. How can I go on knowing that her life could have ended like this?

It is quite unexpected for a mother who thinks her child was "taken" to accept that her life may have ended, so soon after the event. This is similar to a parent of a missing child speaking of the child in the past tense. It is one thing to have doubts and fears (see below) but this is a rhetorical question.


This week I have been quite overtaken by black thoughts. Please, God, bring her back.


Here, she asks God to bring her back, rather than direct to Madeleine to come back


Bedtime is becoming more and more of a challenge.

frencheuropean
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1187
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-11-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  frencheuropean on Fri 9 Dec - 9:32

Some posters carry on, in the comment section, the analyse, with their own interpretation and it's very often interesting and relevant:
...........................................................................................................................................................................
40 comments:

Hobnob said...
"Following on we answered about four questions. I almost responded to the first one asking how we were, but I didn't. I did answer a question on our possible return home. I replied that obviously I didn't even think about that. Anyway, it seemed to have gone well. After breakfast and our having left S and A, we went to church to pray in silence. Very good, calming."


"Following on we answered about four questions. I almost responded to the first one asking how we were, but I didn't"
Anything mentioned in the negative is a red flag.
Why does she specify about 4 questions?
I can understand her saying we answered a few questions if a lot were answered, 4 is fairly specific.
She tells us we answered about 4 questions, does this mean there were other qustions we didn't answer.
Who is the we she is referring to? Her and gerry, her and her attorney? she doesn't tell us so we can't assume.

I almost responded to the first one asking how we were, but I didn't.
Note the pronouns.
They were asked how 'WE' were but 'I' didn't answer.
Why refuse to answer an easy question on how they were feeling?
When they tell us what they didn't do it is sensitive. Why is how they are feeling a sensitive issue?
Did they not know how parents of a missing child would feel? If so why are they note feeling the emotions a parent of a missing child would feel?
Because Madeleine is isn't missing.
They know where she is and therefore there was no abduction.

I did answer a question on our possible return home.
A strong statement, she takes ownership. Why could she answer this but not one on their feelings?

I replied that obviously I didn't even think about that.
Obviously is used to convince the listener of a fact. it is also sensitive.
She is telling us that returning to home is on her mind? She also tries to distance herself from the thought of returning home

Anyway, it seemed to have gone well.
Anyway is used as a way to skip time. What is the it that seemed to have gone well? she doesn't tell us so we can't assume.
However, look at what she told us. WE answered about 4 questions but we aren't told how many questions were asked, does she mean it went well that they didn't answer questions? the questions are in relation to their missing daughter so their non co-operation went well. they weren't arrested. She doesn't tell us if the questions would help find their daughter.

After breakfast and our having left S and A, we went to church to pray in silence. Very good, calming.
Big skip in time, what happened when they got home?
We have reverted to initials for the twins why? Does she have a problem bonding with her kids so depersonalises them?
She doesn't tell us where she left thr twins or with whom. Given the claim their daughter was abducted why are they not doing what any other parent would do and be extra protective? How do they know their kids won't be taken? How do they know that the person who 'abducted' Madeleine isn't working at the place they left the kids at? Did they leave the kids home alone again?

we went to church to pray in silence. Very good, calming
Ehy the praying and why does she specify in silence?. What was very good? She doesn't tell us so we can't assume. Dropped pronouns in regard to very good and also calming.

Wed Dec 07, 07:42:00 PM EST
Châtelaine said...
Peter & Heather, perhaps you should also read Kate's book [bewk] "madeleine" in underscore and by "Kate McCann" with capitals, to start with.
Pat Brown had been on the wire ever since 2007, but really "jumped in" after she'd read the book [bewk].

Wed Dec 07, 08:01:00 PM EST
Châtelaine said...
I should add that the "bewk" is an inside joke, because of their respective whining accents :-)

Wed Dec 07, 08:02:00 PM EST
Hobnob said...
After getting back I decided to go running—for the first time since THE day (already 11 days ago). I knew that it was going to be physically difficult, but I also knew that I wasn't going to give up, because it was for Madeleine and also because the level of pain is far higher now.
No cameras or journalists, which was great. I went running towards the beach and then along it and again climbed that hill so steep —without stopping! (I carried a photo of M in my hand to keep me going.) On the last hill past the tennis courts my legs completely weak, but I managed to keep myself walking. I managed to reach the apartment then time to stop—to think—I felt really quite calm

After getting back I decided to go running—for the first time since THE day (already 11 days ago).
The day as opposed to the NIGHT she was allegedly absucted?
So 11 days after her daughter goes missing she is back to normal and goes running.
This doary was sypposed to be given to Madeleine when she is found to show her what her parents did to find her. To show how much everyone misses her. Instead we get went running.

I knew that it was going to be physically difficult, but I also knew that I wasn't going to give up, because it was for Madeleine and also because the level of pain is far higher now.
Why is her running important for Madeleine?
She isn't out searching day after day for her. She can't find time to run but not to physically search?
What level of pain is higher? the pain of her missing daughter or the pain from running because it was physically difficult?
She doesn't tell us so we can't assume.

No cameras or journalists, which was great.
Why is no media great?
Is it because she is running rather than searching?
Was madeleine somewhere along her running route so she could see if the site had been disturbed by animals or weather?

I went running towards the beach and then along it and again climbed that hill so steep —without stopping! (I carried a photo of M in my hand to keep me going.)
So she carries a photo of Madeleine to keep her running but not to search?
Why the change of language?
her decision to go running was for Madeleine ( missing) but M when she has a picture in her hand (Home/family, physical proof of her child)

On the last hill past the tennis courts my legs completely weak, but I managed to keep myself walking. I managed to reach the apartment then time to stop—to think—I felt really quite calm
Managed is sensitive since she repeats it twice in relation to walking and reaching the apartment.
Why the need to tell us she reached the apartment?Is it sensitive?

then time to stop—to think—I felt really quite calm
Dropped pronouns time to stop what?
who is thinking and what about?
She uses extra words in relation to being calm. The sentence works weall as felt calm so why the extra words? she is trying to convince us, She wasn't feeling calm at all> Why does she need to tell us she feels calm?

Wed Dec 07, 08:25:00 PM EST
Hobnob said...
WEDNESDAY, MAY 23: Gordon Brown called and spoke with Gerry -very kind and giving encouragement.
Feeling a bit emotional afterwards.
Why would gordon brown be calling the parents of a missing toddler? he didn't do it for other missing children.


With is distancing, why was gordon distant with gerry? did he suspect they were involved ot was it a favor that was called in?

very kind and giving encouragement
no pronouns so who was very kind and couraging? gerry or gordon?

Feeling a bit emotional afterwards.
Again no pronoun so who was feeling a bit emotional? What emotions were being felt?
Why was the feeling amotional after the talk with gordon?
There are huge gaps timewise here, what else did they fo that day? did they do anything at all?
No mention is made of physically searching so we can't assume it happened.

SATURDAY, MAY 26: We went to an amusement park with the kids. Some phone calls, emails etc. Not a very good day for either the two of us—some dark thoughts/ frustrations/ desperation creeping in. Some tears.
Which kids? theirs or someone elses? she doesn't tell us so we can't assume.
She doesn't tell us who made the phone calls or why. were they search related or chitchat?
the same with the emails, who from and in relation to what?

Not a very good day for either the two of us—some dark thoughts/ frustrations/ desperation creeping in
what dark thoughts, what frustrations, what desperation? she doesn't tell us so we can't assume.
Still no mention of actual physical searching so what is frustrating her? The fact madeleine hasn't been found? the fact the PJ think they are involved and aren't buying the abduction claim.
There are no pronouns in rerlation to the thought,frustration and desperation. She isn't taking ownership of the emotions so we can't either.

Some tears
Whose tears and why?
She doesn't take ownersgip of the tears niether can we. Some tears could be 4-6, she tells us some rather than lots which is what i would be expecting from a mom with a missing child.

I love you so much XXX
SUNDAY, MAY 27: Clarence spoke to us about a possible trip to the Vatican. It seems that it really is going to happen—main story on the news!
Spoke to Dad. I went for a walk to the beach with Sean and Amelie. Frozen. Beach—slippery, wet feet.
She doesn't tell us who she loves so much so we cam't assume.

Clarence spoke to us about a possible trip to the Vatican
. It seems that it really is going to happen—main story on the news!
Go this is all about her and gerry meeting the pope, not one mention of Madeleine.
Why is she happy the vatican trip will be the main news rather than Madeleine being missing?
because it is and always has been about kate and how she thinks she is perveived by others. it is all appearance, how she looks, who she meets rather than finding Madeleine. Madeleine is an afterthought.

Spoke to Dad. I went for a walk to the beach with Sean and Amelie. Frozen. Beach—slippery, wet feet.
Missing pronoun. Who talked to dad and which dad?
For the first time we see the names of the twins in full. Why the change in language? They are going to the beach. We will look to see where she changes how she refers to them..
Who had the wet feet?

Wed Dec 07, 08:47:00 PM EST
Blaze said...
The diary was written for the public and also to use for her future book..

Why she thinks telling the public that she is able to consume a meal..groom..run..sleep well ..and carry on as if nothing has happened will convince them that she had nothing to do with "M's" disappearance is beyond me.. Her explanation points reminded me of Patsy Ramsey..

Wed Dec 07, 08:57:00 PM EST
Hobnob said...
We all had dinner when we got back to the apartment.
We have to keep looking. We have to find you beloved xxxxx
Why the need to tell us they all had dinner, wouldn't it be normal? Is she trying to convince us that they aren't leaving the twins home alone? Is she trying to convince us they are a normal family?

We have to keep looking. We have to find you beloved xxxxx
They havn't been looking though. Everyone else and their dog has. LE, expats. locals and tourists are out everyday searching whilst she and gerry go running and meet the pope.
Looking is not the same as searching. looking is passive as if there is no rush. Searching implies there is a rush, a reason to find the missing thing.
She doesn't refer to her by name, just as beloved.
Madeleine is missing from the whole entry. Why? this all should be about what they did to find her, instead it is all about kate and gerry and occasionally th twins.

WEDNESDAY, MAY 30: The kids went to bed again around 9pm!!! Low point of tonight—becoming desperate/without hope because of the lack of information. They are acting like they have no leads at all. Very worried.
Here we don't have names just the kids. which kids?
Why is 9pm worthy of 2 exclamation marks? we know kate finds bedtime problematic.
Whi is acting like they have no leads? she doesn't tell us so we can't assume.
Notice no pronoun with very worried. She doesn't take ownersip of the worry so we can't either.
She uses the word acting in relation to leads, does she think they have leads but aren't telling?
Why is she worried about their acting? Does she think the PJ know or suspect her and gerrys' involement

Low point of tonight—becoming desperate/without hope because of the lack of information.
No mention at all of what was being done during the day to find Madeline, why?
Dropped pronouns again. Who is becoming desperate and without hope? herself, gerry or the PJ.
She tells us it because of the lack of information? Who is witholding information? kate and gerry or the PJ?
She doesn't take ownershipof the emotions so we can't either
The pj suspect kate and gerry of involvement so won't tell them what they know. Kate and gerry and not co-operating fully with the PJ by telling the truth regarding checks etc.

Tomorrow it will be 4 weeks since Madeleine was taken.
Four weeks since we saw our special little girl.
We are not certain that we will ever see her again, but know that we have to keep up our hope and strength—for the others, at least. Exhausted.
Taken is passive and weak, Why not say abducted?
Taken can also mean dead as in she was taken from us by cancer etc.
Notice she uses Madeleine in relation to missing.
Look also at the pronouns used. What i would expect to see it I as most mothers would say.
Why does she need to mimise ownership of Madeleine, why share it with another by using WE
Anything is the negative is a concern.
Why is she admitting already they may not see her again? They were telling everyone she was abducted and there was no evidence she had come to serious harm and other children had been rescued months and years down the line.

but know that we have to keep up our hope and strength—for the others, at least
Dropped pronoun in relation to knowing. Who knows they have to keep their hope and strength up?
Who do they have to keep their hope and strength up for?
The others. Who are the others? she doesn't tell uus so we can't assume.
What she doesn't tell us is they have to keep their hope and strength up for Madeleine? Why?
Surely if your child is missing you have to be strong for them. If your child is dead you don't have to be strong for them but you do for others suc as family and friends. Madeleine si dead and she knows it.

Wed Dec 07, 09:17:00 PM EST
Jo said...
No cameras or journalists, which was great. I went running towards the beach and then along it and again climbed that hill so steep

Does she mention climbing this hill previously in her diary? Why does she say she climbed it again?

Wed Dec 07, 09:35:00 PM EST
Hobnob said...
Diary Notes - June 2007
FRIDAY, JUNE 1: Quite fed up...I can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear of pain. How can I go on knowing that her life could have ended like this?
Why would she be fed up thinking about Madeleine? Her daughter has allegedly been abducted and she is fed up.
Any innocent mom of a missing chil would be thinking about them constantly, are they alive, are they hurt, are they scared, are they being looked after?
Did she think with Madeleine gone they would be a happy family? Madeleine gone is still Madeleine the problem.

about her fear of pain.
This is extremely concerning.
No one likes pain. Why does she think about Madeleine having a fear of pain?
What painful thing was being done to her to cause her to have a fear of it?
Is kate telling us of physical or sexual abuse?
Remember kate told us she checked to see if Madeleine was cowering in the wardrobe.
Why cowering and not hiding?
People cower in fear. Was madeleine cowering because of her fear of pain?

How can I go on knowing that her life could have ended like this?
Madeleine is dead? this is close, that is distant. Kate is close to Madeleine's life ending?
What is the this she refers to?
We look back and see a reference to a fear of pain, was the pain life ending? Was Madeleine sexually abused and died of her injuries. That would explain why they could nver allow an autopsy, what else would have been revealed?


This week I have been quite overtaken by black thoughts. Please, God, bring her back.
Bedtime is becoming more and more of a challenge
What kind of black thoughts? she doesn't tell us so we can't assume. We don't know if the thoughts are to do with what madeleine is suffering of if it is guilt as what she did and allowed to be done to her daughter.
bedtime will be more of a challenge because the twins will remember that their sister was abducted whilst they were all asleep, they would be scared the man miht come back and take them.
Also is it more of a chellenge because they now cannot sedate their kids and have to rely on them falling asleep naturally? if they had sedated them. the pj could have turned up unexpectedly and said we need to test the twins etc anf it would be game over.
It is telling that before Madeleine went missing the kids would all fall asleep miraculously dast and they could go out and leave them home alone. Now Madeleine is missing the kids won't go instantly to sleep.
Kate is finding this more and more stressful.

Wed Dec 07, 09:35:00 PM EST
l said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Wed Dec 07, 09:51:00 PM EST
l said...
Thank you Peter and Heather. I hope you will uncover something thru SA that will help Pat Brown when she searches in Portugal.
Gerry McCann also wrote an extremely self-involved blog early on as well. Seems to be a pattern with these two.
Kate's running and her sense of calm...would a parent of a missing child feel a sense of calm so soon after it happened? I don't believe so. I believe she felt a sense of peace momentarily after her therapeutic run because she was able to make the worries about the police inquiry and cover-up fade away for a second. For a parent of a kidnapped child, these worries would never fade away so soon! For a person involved in just a police inquiry...maybe...

Wed Dec 07, 10:01:00 PM EST
Anonymous said...
Following on we answered about four questions. I almost responded to the first one asking how we were, but I didn't. I did answer a question on our possible return home. I replied that obviously I didn't even think about that. Anyway, it seemed to have gone well. After breakfast and our having left S and A, we went to church to pray in silence. Very good, calming.

Anyway, it seemed to have gone well. It refers back to how they answered or avoided answering the questions. Refusing to answer how you feel about your daughter's "abduction" is a good thing? Also notice how Kate once again references Very good, calming. Kate seems to have a dire need for activities that calm her, but little to no regard for Madeleine. Very little of her entries are about Madeleine; her personality, sweet and poignant memories of how Madeleine acts; Madeleine's little sayings or things that painfully remind Kate of Madeleine and her absence. All the things that haunt and stalk loving parents of genuinely missing children.

Wed Dec 07, 11:22:00 PM EST
Anonymous said...
More Questions:
After getting back I decided to go running—for the first time since THE day (already 11 days ago). I knew that it was going to be physically difficult, but I also knew that I wasn't going to give up, because it was for Madeleine and also because the level of pain is far higher now.

How was the running "for" Madeleine? The "level of pain is far higher now"-higher than when? When Madeleine first "was taken"? Why is the level of pain far higher now?

No cameras or journalists, which was great. I went running towards the beach and then along it and again climbed that hill so steep —without stopping! (I carried a photo of M in my hand to keep me going.) On what other occasions did she run or climb this hill? Notice "M" is mentioned only after recounting her victory tackling the monster hill. Notice Madeleine is reduced to "M" and is tacked on as an afterthought, literally with parenthesis-almost perfunctorily. On the last hill past the tennis courts my legs completely weak, but I managed to keep myself walking. I managed to reach the apartment then time to stop—to think—I felt really quite calm Notice how Kate proudly recounts that her "legs completely weak" she "managed" to keep herself walking. She reiterates how proud she was of herself with "I managed to reach the apartment..". Notice how she stops herself with "stop", switches to "think", and quickly moves on to how she physically feels..."really quite calm". She would have been feeling a rush of endomorphins (a.k.a. "runner's high"). Why is Kate so concerned with feeling calm and so averse to answering questions about how she feels? Is exercising the only time she feels calm? If the run was "for Madeleine", why doesn't she address how proud Madeleine would have been of her, her persistence, etc.? How would Kate's run have mattered to or affected Madeleine?

Wed Dec 07, 11:40:00 PM EST
Anonymous said...
Still more questions:
We went to an amusement park with the kids. Some phone calls, emails etc. Not a very good day for either the two of us—some dark thoughts/ frustrations/ desperation creeping in. Some tears.

Not a very good day for either the two of us—some dark thoughts/ frustrations/ desperation creeping in. Some tears. Why "Not a very good day for either two of us"? Didn't she say they took the kids? Why are there no descriptions of how Sean and Amelie are reacting to Madeleine being missing? The deafening silence makes it seems as if: the twins are used to Madeleine being absent or their feelings/fears/emotional well-being doesn't matter, compared to Kate and Gerry. Kate, thus far, has yet to mention how the children are responding to their older sister and playmate being snatched in the middle of the night, from their shared bedroom. She never mentions them asking for Madeleine. Kate completely fails to address any of the trauma to the twins. She briefly mentions one "ruined day" because S and A kept crying and they had to stop four times on the way to their destination. The children are de-personalized at every turn.

Wed Dec 07, 11:53:00 PM EST
Petrusha said...
An observation. It's not SA, just a personal observation that grows to bother me more and more as I read excerpts from the diary on this site.

There's a fair amount of talk both of pain and of carrying on past/through pain. And ... it's not (I think) just cold-blooded self-centered sociopaths who are incapable of empathy, but also people who've been hurt and who have shut themselves down emotionally (but who do feel painful emotions at the core of their being).

Not sure which Kate is -- I'd guess she's one or the other -- but I have been wondering what her upbringing was. Did she learn to shut down her own feelings to survive? Is she accustomed to "pain"? (I hope not, for her kids' sake. Pushing through pain is appropriate for solidiers, but horrifying when expected of children.) What is her own background?

I could be off by a mile, but I'm wondering about this tonight as I read part II. At any rate, there's a lack of healthy emotion here, whether from nature or from nurture (or lack thereof).

Thu Dec 08, 12:17:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...
And more...
SUNDAY, MAY 27: Clarence spoke to us about a possible trip to the Vatican. It seems that it really is going to happen—main story on the news!
Spoke to Dad. I went for a walk to the beach with Sean and Amelie. Frozen. Beach—slippery, wet feet.

Notice the number of words used to describe this exciting phone call and the possibility of meeting the Pope (25 words, 1 exclamation mark, full sentences, conversational tone). Contrasting sharply, is the next paragraph about the beach trip with Sean and Amelie (20 words; 1 pronoun; choppy, abrupt sentences). Note the word "Frozen" is separate from the beach. Who or what is frozen? Kate? The children? The beach? Yet Kate describes the beach as slippery and someone has wet feet. How can their feet be wet if the water is frozen? The average temperature for Praia da Luz in May is 55-68 degrees F and the average water temperature is 64 degrees F (nothing would have been frozen)- per http://www.holiday-weather.com/praia_da_luz/averages/.

Thu Dec 08, 12:34:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...
Still more:
Tomorrow it will be 4 weeks since Madeleine was taken.
Four weeks since we saw our special little girl.
We are not certain that we will ever see her again, but know that we have to keep up our hope and strength—for the others, at least. Exhausted.

Along with "our", note the words "special" and "little "girl". Most parents regard their child as special, therefore it's a given...unnecessary in a diary. Note that Kate refers to Madeleine as "little girl"; not daughter. Note that Kate refers to her as "special" and yet, her diary makes no entries detailing what is/was special about Madeleine and rarely mentions her.

Thu Dec 08, 12:44:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...
Curious are Kate and Gerry, or one or the other, heavy drinkers? They may not consider themselves heavy drinkers, but it doesn't mean they are not.

I know the evening they report their child, Madeline, missing, there seems to be quite a lot of drinking with the adults out on the patio. Was alcohol a normal part of their lives?

Thu Dec 08, 12:46:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...
Diary Notes - June 2007
FRIDAY, JUNE 1: Quite fed up...I can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear of pain. How can I go on knowing that her life could have ended like this?

Scary that Kate specifically thinks about Madeleine's fear of pain. No one likes pain, so what makes Madeleine's fear of pain so noteworthy, memorable, and persistent? Why is Kate tying Madeleine to pain? Could have ended like what? In pain? How would Kate know that?

Thu Dec 08, 12:50:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...
______ O T ____________

Important story, worthy of discussion:

http://news.yahoo.com/ellie-gertz-adopted-then-relinquished-tore-families-apart-214806043.html

....."FASD affects about 40,000 newborns a year -- about one percent of all live births in the United States, according to the National Organization on Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (NOFAS). Two million adults are also affected by FASD.

Alcohol, like the carbon monoxide from cigarettes, passes easily through the placenta into the blood of a developing fetus, putting the child at risk. Because the fetus cannot break down the alcohol the way an adult can, its blood alcohol levels remain high for a longer period of time.

A fetus is most vulnerable in the first trimester and the extent of damage is determined by both the timing and pattern of alcohol use. The severity of the disorder can range from full-blown fetal alcohol syndrome, with facial deformities and growth deficiencies, to a spectrum of neurological disorders like Ellie's.

"Alcohol is a neurotoxin," said Tom Donaldson, president of NOFAS. "Why would you want to ingest any amount?"
"We see articles that say you can't tell a woman, even if she is pregnant, she can't have a drink on New Year's Eve or her anniversary or Christmas," he said. "Are you willing to take the risk? It's like saying to your child you can eat lead paint off just one window sill, but not four."

FASD is one of the leading causes of developmental disabilities and many doctors are not well-trained in diagnosis and few resources exist to help these children.
The disorder is still not recognized, although it is under consideration in the American Psychiatric Association's DSM-V.

When they reach the age of 18, an estimated 50 percent of those with fetal alcohol syndrome go on to have trouble with the law, according to recent articles published by the Harvard University journal, "Law and Psychiatry."
Many, like Ellie, have a normal IQ, but have poor executive-decision skills and maladaptive behavior.
"You are describing someone who doesn't understand right from wrong, doesn't learn from experience and is awkward in social situations," said Donaldson. "They act out."

The Gertz family first learned that Ellie had been exposed to alcohol in utero when the little girl was 3, after they received a letter from her uncle. Ellie's biological mother had abused crack cocaine, PCP, heroin and methamphetamine, but later doctors said alcohol had taken the greatest toll"......

Thu Dec 08, 12:50:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...
This week I have been quite overtaken by black thoughts. Please, God, bring her back.
Bedtime is becoming more and more of a challenge
Why only this particular week has Kate been overtaken by "black thoughts"? What are "black thoughts"? Why is she pleading to God? Because she is overtaken with "black thoughts" and "Bedtime is becoming more and more of a challenge". Note Kate doesn't plea to God on Madeleine's behalf: "Please God keep Madeleine safe.", "God, please be with Madeleine. Comfort her and give her peace. Please let her know we love her.", or "Please bring her quickly home.". She never once references asking God to speak to/change the heart of the kidnapper(s). Rather, she asks God to bring Madeleine "back". Back from where? Generally speaking, grieving family and friends will often ask God to please bring their deceased loved ones back.

Thu Dec 08, 12:58:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...
One for the road here:
Kate talks extensively about herself and her feelings, but never mentions Gerry or the twins' feelings. There are no entries about her & Gerry, together, discussing Madeleine and the pain of her "disappearance". That, coupled with few mentions of them doing things as a family, Kate's runs, and Kate being "with" the twins, leads me to conclude the marriage is not all that stable. Gerry seems to be MIA alot in her journal, maybe in her daily life. There are few references to her doing things with the twins; fewer still of Gerry doing things with the twins. So, where were the twins all those days? IT's as is they occasionally get trotted out to "have tea" with the busy parents. Just my opinion

Thu Dec 08, 01:07:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...
IMO the following words used by Kate are key:

1) "On the DAY". Madeliene didn't go missing that night. "On the day" is a huge slip of the pen by Kate. Maddy had already died during the "day" prior to Kate & Gerry going out for dinner that night.

2) "Cowering". Madeline was cowering in the closet, trying to get away, in terror of more pain as she was being brutalized and battered. She was scared, either trying to hide from the blows or fear of the intense pain from sexual abuse, or both; was she gagged to muffle her screams? Kate saw her fear in her eyes as Madeliene cowered and died.

3) "Fear of pain". How could Kate remember Maddy's "fear" of pain had she not witnessed Maddy's fear of pain? Everybody fears pain, pain hurts. Kate saw it. What pain? When? That day.

4) Past use of the word "vagina" making reference to Maddy's perfect little vagina. What distorted mother would make such a reference to her little daughter's vagina, and her missing, possibly at the hands of a pedophile? Sick.

Kate saw the fear in Maddy's eyes while she cowered that day.

NOBODY who could afford a vacation at a resort leaves a four year old and two toddlers alone in a strange place with the door unlocked while they go out for the evening; not even taking advantage of the free sitter service at the resort? This is unheard of and was planned by the McCanns to use as an excuse for a kidnapping to cover up what they had done.

You might hear of leaving small children alone in the slums of Detroit, or some such place; it's really not all that uncommon amongst drug addicts/alcoholics like Ronald Cummings; but a middle class, clear thinking, caring person/couple would not do such a thing. Even most prostitutes and uneducated single parents working the night shift provide a sitter whether they can afford one or not.

Did Kate & Gerry go out and leave a dead little Madeliene lying there with two toddler babies alone?

Did Kate put the three of them down for the night as if they were all three sleeping, having killed Maddy and sedating the twins, or did she or Gerry sedate all three and the drugs on top of Maddy's abuse killed her?

Had Kate & Gerry already disposed of Madeliene prior to going out for the evening, deliberately leaving the door unlocked so they could claim Maddy was kidnapped?

Is it a fact that one of/some of their dinner friends went back and saw the three kids sleeping, or what appeared to be Maddy sleeping, who was in fact dead? If three kids were seen as if sleeping, when did Kate & Gerry dispose of Maddy?

Where did they hide Maddy's body during the time period between that day/night and when they hauled her in the wheel well of the rental car several weeks later?

Of course, no one knows the answer to these questions, or do they? Your thoughts/opinions Peter or Heather? Tkx!

Anonymous 101

Thu Dec 08, 03:53:00 AM EST
Hobnob said...
Hi Anon

Note the word "Frozen" is separate from the beach. Who or what is frozen? Kate? The children? The beach?

Excellent catch.
She doesn't tell us what is frozen so we can't assume.

Having followed this case from day 1 and knowing that fluids were found in the hire car rented 25 days after Madeleine went missing, Goncalo Amaral the now retired lead detective in the case indicated the fluids found inficated a frozen body starting to defrost, which would fit in with the frozen comment.
It also fits in with kates description of Madeleine.

‘The truly awful manifestation of what I was feeling was a macabre slideshow of vivid pictures in my brain that taunted me relentlessly.
‘I was crying out that I could see Madeleine lying, cold and mottled on a big grey stone slab'.

Also in her book she wrote
"I told him about the awful pictures that scrolled through my head of her body, her perfect little genitals torn apart"

What parent would write such a thing in a book, especially given they claim theyre were told not to show emotions as the abducter would get their jollies from their suffering which is why they were so flat and expressionless.

Reading those two statements it reads not as someone imagining a scene and describing it but recalling an actual memory
kate's guilty conscience was and is in full swing and she will eventually crack under the strain.
She is trapped in a loveless marriage that was in deep trouble even before Madeleine went missing.
Missing children do not make a marriage stronger, far from it, the parents blame themselves and each other amd the majority of cases with missing children end in divorce or seperation.

Thu Dec 08, 05:12:00 AM EST
Lemon said...
Bianca's father on Nancy Grace:

D`ANDRE LANE / Nancy Grace (transcript snips)

GRACE: Where were you going the morning the car was carjacked?


LANE: I was on my way to her mother`s house at the moment the car was carjacked.


GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear you. Repeat?


LANE: I was on my way to her mother`s house moments before the car was carjacked.


GRACE: Now, I read something that you were on your way to see about your financial aid for your student tuition. Is that incorrect?


LANE: That is incorrect. That happened prior to all of this taking place. I`ve fully cooperated with the police and given them every bit of information that I could give them. I don`t know where you`re getting your information from, but that was prior, earlier on in the day. When the situation took place, we were on our way to her mother`s to get her more clothes so she could spend more time with her family.

(Break). . .

GRACE: Mr. Lane, you say your lawyer says that you have cooperated with police. What have you done to cooperate with police?


LANE: I`ve answered every question they`ve given me to the fullest extent that I could. I have done -- I sat down with a sketch artist. I tried -- the composite -- I gave them every -- all the information I could. I mean the situation -- everything happened so fast. The -- I mean there`s a gun pointed at me, my daughter is in the car. 

I`ve been just trying to give them everything that I could. I don`t know what else they want from me but I`m giving them everything that they ask for. 



http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1112/06/ng.01.html

Thu Dec 08, 05:44:00 AM EST
Lemon said...
from Action News 7
D'andre Lane (father of Bianca Jones) quotes:

(snip)
“I had nothing to do with my daughter’s disappearance," Lane said. "I would never harm my children. My children are my life.”

(snip)
While his attorney, Terry L. Johnson, did not allow Lane to respond to more questions about the actual incident, Lane did talk about the hours leading up to the alleged carjacking and what happened inside his Mitchell Street house.

"She might of missed going to the potty," Lane said. "I might have spanked her bottom...It's just a parent being a parent."

Lane does admit to having a small paddle he uses to discipline his children, and while he may have used it on Bianca the night before she disappeared because of the potty incident, he says she was not abused.

*****

I find these statements by DL concerning.


http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/detroit/bianca's-father-d'andre-lane-opens-up-about-daughter's-disappearance#ixzz1fwIPiNsb

Thu Dec 08, 05:58:00 AM EST
Châtelaine said...
Anonymous at 01:07 AM:
“There are few references to her doing things with the twins; fewer still of Gerry doing things with the twins. So, where were the twins all those days? It's as if they occasionally get trotted out to "have tea" with the busy parents. Just my opinion”.

***

You're absolutely correct. They left the twins at the creche day in & day out, apart from the Saturdays, which Gerry in his blog announced as "family days". Well, I guess they had to, because Saturdays were change-over days at the holiday resort and the creche was closed ...

Thu Dec 08, 06:18:00 AM EST
unknown said...
'We all had dinner when we got back to the apartment.

We have to keep looking. We have to find you beloved xxxxx.'

Peter, I agree with your comment about the mother's statement 'We have to keep looking'

An innocent parent doesn't need a reminder of how important it is to her to find her missing child.

I think this woman writes the first line about eating and going home and realizes how everyday, how normal this routine may be perceived by the public/LE and reminds herself that they must keep up the facade of looking.

I think this mom appreciated the praying in silence because no one was asking her for a response and in silence she doesn't have to pray and no one is the wiser (except her and her Creator).

The pain received from running IMO is a lame form of penance. She carried Madeline's picture to remind herself of why she should endure the pain.

Because she knows she deserves pain for what has happened.

Thu Dec 08, 09:44:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...
@ Hobnob Thu Dec 08, 05:12:00 AM EST

To write a book about your missing child - for public consumption and profit - & include the horrible words you mention above is a low thing to do. Why would any mother want another soul to read those words about her own child much less write them herself? These people complaining of media intrusion is beyond farcical.

Over the years the McCanns have created a very lucrative industry from public donations, website merchandise, book and libel actions (God knows how much they've collected from the media). They claim the money is for the search but as the fund is cloaked in secrecy no one knows how it is actually spent.

Surprisingly, the McCanns are never challenged by the media but with the widespread corruption that exists throughout (UK) society and a two tier justice system; one for the rich (which includes expensive libel, defence & extradition lawyers and another for the rest of us )I guess anyone with money and influence can dupe the public.

Thu Dec 08, 09:45:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...
Regarding the comment above about fetal alcohol syndrome and adoption.

Over the years, I have come to know other parents who have adopted ,or fostered, children affected by drugs, alcohol, and abuse. Some were affected by all three.

When I read the words 'acting out', I wonder how many people really understand what that means.

It can be as simple as temper tantrums..other things are an inability to control behavior (they would talk to and go with anyone..or lash out at total strangers without provocation). Destruction of property, injuring other children..and harming/killing family pets was frequent.

As the children mature, 'acting out' can turn into many things. Drug and alcohol use, promiscuity, rages of anger. There is an internal pain that will not go away. Some of the connection in the brain that help control actions, and understanding consequences just are not there. They aren't broken, they just never formed.

Most families were involved in extensive therapy, and truly love these children, but the acting out eventually became intolerable for many.

One small child took to wandering the house at night..and the mother began sleeping outside the bedroom. This child had bent every piece of flatware in half, scratched eyes from family pictures of siblings, and one night the mother found the child with a raised fork over the eyes of her sleeping 3 year old.

These were often very young children..and the tendency is to not believe them capable of any of these actions. Sadly, the children themselves do not know what they are doing, they just do it. Talk, discipline (time outs) nothing works, and some parents found themselves approaching abuse as their frustrations and lack of support rose.

When I hear of adoptive parents mistreating, or killing in anger, this is what I think of. I can't think of anyone who could go through the adoption process, expensive and extremely time consuming, who would desire to abuse a child. Disruption is seen as a shameful failing, and some social workers make parents feel guilt over taking this measure. What results is often not good. Stress, divorce, problems with siblings, and worst of all a parent killing a child in anger and frustration can result.

One thing really never talked about is that while you love adopted children, sometimes the bond never really forms. If there are natural children in the home, the differences between personalities, and the effects of FAS, make parenting the children equally very difficult.

In some families, adoptive parents were never informed of the childs background issues. Testing was never performed until after adoption, because social workers cannot disclose what they don't know. They assume that once in the home, love will win. This can lead to a tragedy for all involved.

NOt all families are the same, neither are children. FAS, drugs and abuse affect everyone differently, but it is something to keep in mind. If you are adopting, be sure to ask more questions than you may be comfortable with. Ask for a thorough medical and psychological work up id the child is older. If an infant, seek counsel from professionals, and don't rely on what the worker says alone.

I am all for adoption, please don't misunderstand me. Just fully informed adoption, and fully prepared parents.

I think it interesting to read comments about permits for childbearing. No one is vetted for parenthood like adoptive parents, yet when things go wrong, they are often seen as evil and unloving. I think most are frustrated with no resources or understanding.

Thu Dec 08, 01:16:00 PM EST
Blaze said...
Anon said..."Why would any mother want another soul to read those words about her own child much less write them herself? These people complaining of media intrusion is beyond farcical."

------------

When I was following the case it came out (and I'm not sure how true it is).that the McCann's tried to adopt Madeleine out at one time...(long before she was reported as "missing")

And it is reported that in 2007 not long after Madeleine went missng the McC's made Madeleine a ward of the Courts...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2164743/Madeleine-McCann-parents-court-bid-for-information.html


"The Telegraph can also disclose that Madeleine was made a ward of court last summer at the request of the McCanns, to empower judges to act in her best interests in any legal dispute such as the case which is about to be heard.

Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns’ spokesman, said: “I can state that on the instigation of Gerry and Kate McCann Madeleine is a ward of the High Court of England and Wales. "

Thu Dec 08, 05:14:00 PM EST
Hobnob said...
LANE: I`ve answered every question they`ve given me to the fullest extent that I could. I have done -- I sat down with a sketch artist. I tried -- the composite -- I gave them every -- all the information I could. I mean the situation -- everything happened so fast. The -- I mean there`s a gun pointed at me, my daughter is in the car. 

I`ve been just trying to give them everything that I could. I don`t know what else they want from me but I`m giving them everything that they ask for. 


LANE: I`ve answered every question they`ve given me to the fullest extent that I could.
Why is there a limit on the fullness of answers he can give?
Is it because of consequences? If he answered fully he would implicate himself?

I have done -- I sat down with a sketch artist. I tried -- the composite -- I gave them every -- all the information I could.
Wow talk about choppy sentences, He starts and stops himself repreatedly indicating the topic is sensitive. What is the topic he is sensitive about?
Describing th 'carjackers'. This should not be sensitive if they existed. However, if they didn't exust he would be lying and stuck with how to decribe the indescribable.

When talking with the sketch artist (with indicates distance) he also uses the word sat indicating tension.
He tried and then stops himself, what did he try to do? Tried means he started but didn't finish. What was he trying? the composite.


Every what? he stops himself from finishing the sentence, why?
Look at what follows,all the information I could.
Restricting information, so what is the inforation he can't give them?
There were no carjackers. He is struggling to provide a description of an imaginary man so we can expect the generic bushy haired man, black/hispanic dude beloved of so many guilty parents.

I mean the situation -- everything happened so fast.
Trying to convince us the listener he is telling the truth and also slipping in a temporal laguna. What is the everything that happened so fast? the situation. Which situation? the one that actually happened or the one that really happened.

The -- I mean there`s a gun pointed at me, my daughter is in the car.
Again he stops himself, what was he going to say after the?
Again trying to convince us there was a gun.I wonder what he would say if asked to describe the gun?
Is he also telling us the fun was pointed at he daughter as well?
he takes ownership of the daughter.

I`ve been just trying to give them everything that I could.
Trying doesn't mean he is succeeding. He limits the everything he can give them. however he says he is trying so is he trying but not succeeding in limiting his information. Everytime he opens his mouth his gives LE more imformation, if not directly but via leakage.


What LE want is the truth about what happened and where his daughter is. He knows what else they want.
Instead of saying And i'm giving them everything they ask for implying complete co-operation, he says but meaning there are restrictions, he negates what comes after the word.
What comes after but and is negated?
Giving them everything they ask for.
He tells is he isn't giving them everything they ask for, What are they asking for? Where his daughter is and what really happened.

He murdered his daughter and dumped her body somewhere he is familiar with.Like all killers they tend to dump a body in a place they are familiar with and comfortable with.
I would be asking family and driends where he likes to hang out, his favorite places and i bet it will be within an hours drive.

Thu Dec 08, 05:28:00 PM EST
Anonymous said...
This is very interesting story-hah! Story, it is. Not just wealthy UK parents getting lawyers to help them get away with murder, it is rampant in USA these days. Classes about parenting really cannot help people who have no natural affection or love for their own kids. It is unGodly and unnatural to feel what these people are feeling. Alot are getting pregnant, enjoying the attention, then having to adjust their "adult time" to kiddo-time, just can't seem to give up their freedom, drugs,alcolol, and whatever, to make time for the important thing-the kid. I find it very disturbing to spend hours trying to educate them on parenting, when leaving the hospital with their newborn, when they are too busy texting, talking,socializing, to even appear to listen. Don't know what the answer is. Poor kids. Some don't have a chance.

Thu Dec 08, 05:35:00 PM EST
Hobnob said...
I wonder if the mccanns never bonded with any of their kids because they were IVF?

Even if they were all biologically kate and gerry's the process of IVF is expensive and hard on the body. I wonder why they needed IVF? kate no eggs? gerry low sperm count? it places a great strain on any marriage when a couple can't have kids naturally. there being a lot of guilt and blame on both sides.
It would be even harder if the kids weren't biologically theirs either. donor eggs. donor sperm or both.
Many have said the kids look like kate and gerry therefore they must be biologically theirs, not so. IN IVF the preference is to have the donors similiar in appearance to the natural parents. You aren't going to use eggs and sperm from black donors and implant them in blue-eyed blond parents, people will notice and ask what happned if they didn't know about IVF.
It is possible that not only is gerry not the father but that Madeleine and the siblings aren't related to each other either.
The clinics involved won't have made the onfo public and police would have needed warrants to check on who is related to whom.
The results could indicate why Madeleine apparantly wasn't considered part of the family and also eliminate the claim the fluids in the car came from the twins diapers.
Madeleine was nearly 4 and the twins were two which doesn't leave a lot of time between them, especially given that most IVF requires several cycles before a successful pregnancy.
Why the rush and How soom after Madeleines birth did they start the next rounds of IVF.
IVF is also very expensive and multiple cycles can drain any savings hence their financial difficulties. A huge mortgage, three toddlers and paying off the IVF as well as living the live of a professional couple with all that entails means they were probably living paycheck to paycheck.
Could that explains gerry's comment when told to cheer up on the bus to the resort" f**k off, i'm not here to enjoy myself"

Thu Dec 08, 05:51:00 PM EST
Châtelaine said...
Hobnob, with all due respect, I think it has been established that Kate & Gerry were natural father & mother ...

Thu Dec 08, 06:08:00 PM EST
shmi said...
With the mention of frozen and freezer, and the fluids in the trunk being same as if a body was frozen and then thawed.
When Peter first put up the diary (before analysys), I latched on to the idea of the freezer. No where did I find any info about a freezer. Just some slight mention on another blog. Nothing saying Gerry disposed of a freezer in the apt. they stayed at.

Does anyone know-was a freezer found? Were there signs of decomp? Did Gerry admit to dumping a freezer? Did he show LE where it was he dumped it?

Their statements are damning! But, it seems the freezer could be a piece of concrete evidence(especially if you discount the cadaver dog hits).

Low point of tonight—becoming desperate/without hope because of the lack of information

She is at a low point, not because Maddy has not been found, but because of the lack of information.

Thu Dec 08, 08:13:00 PM EST
MaryK said...
Hobnob:

I did not know the children were conceived thru IVF. My sister did that and it is expensive and quite painful with regards to the shots her husband had to give her in her hip on a daily basis for weeks. She was so bruised it looked like she had been beaten. Then surgery to remove the eggs. I cannot imagine going through this without
having a strong desire to parent. Even if the eggs and sperm were donor, once the pregnancy took hold and the baby grew, I cannot imagine not being sanguine about the outcome. I do think Maddy dies accidentally and a quick decision had to be made once her body was found. Once a story was chosen, the McCanns were married to it and it was full steam ahead.

Thu Dec 08, 08:20:00 PM EST
Hobnob said...
Châtelaine said...
Hobnob, with all due respect, I think it has been established that Kate & Gerry were natural father & mother
It hasn't been established that kate and gerry were and are the biological parents.
Although the public has access to all the rog statements etc, not all the files have been realeased to the public despite the case being shelved.

The mccanns went to court to try and force the PJ and also Leicestershire police to hande over all the files to do with the case. ( suspects like to know what evidence th police have so they can come up with a nelievable explanation.
They lost the case to see ALL the files on them but did manage to get some of the files released which were pretty much all the info they and their private detectives had provided to the PJ.
tens of thoussands of files were not trleased and amongst the files not released were the medical records of not only kate and gerry but Madeleine and the twins as well (the twins were conceiced in Amsterdam)
There is also a lot they claimed which is highly unbelievable such as neither of them had credits cards, bank accounts etc. Thy called in a few favors from the then labor government so that their medical records, finacial statements were either not released at all or a concise version was.

As it stands we do not know who the biological parents are of madeleine, Sean and Amelie.

It was reported early in the case that the bio father of Madeleine had been found in birmingham, nut like everything else the mccanns sat on the reports and denied, denied, denied.

What also arose suspicions was that gerry had to return to the UK to get a sample with Madeleine's DNA on it ( a pillow case form home) Why they didn't offer up her clothes, shoes or bedding i don't know. They also claimed that she didn't have a toothbrush either, which made many wonder if Madeleine had ever actually been present in the apartment at all.

Supporters claims that the kids all look like their parents and thus kate and gerry are the bio parents means nothing, since, donors would have chosen becuase of their similar appearance to the parents.

What was interesting to note is that despite have 3 toddlers in the house the police said it looked so clean as if there weren't kids there.
When cleaning up a crime scene it is not so much what is there and shouldn't be, but also what isn't there that should be.
Knowing how messy kids can be especially at their age why was so little evidence ff their presence.

Thu Dec 08, 09:11:00 PM EST
Hobnob said...
shmi said...
With the mention of frozen and freezer, and the fluids in the trunk being same as if a body was frozen and then thawed.
When Peter first put up the diary (before analysys), I latched on to the idea of the freezer. No where did I find any info about a freezer. Just some slight mention on another blog. Nothing saying Gerry disposed of a freezer in the apt. they stayed at.

Does anyone know-was a freezer found? Were there signs of decomp? Did Gerry admit to dumping a freezer? Did he show LE where it was he dumped it?

Their statements are damning! But, it seems the freezer could be a piece of concrete evidence(especially if you discount the cadaver dog hits).

Gerry posted on his blog that the apartment freezer had broken down so he dumped it and bought a new one.
Within minutes though (probably when he realised how incriminating it was) he deleted the comment.

He claimed he had taken the freezer to the dump where he met several supported and dumped it.

It was asked by thousands why would he feel the need to replace a freezer that wasn't his from a holiday apartment when all he should have done and what you and i would have done is call the apartmnt owner and let them know is was broken and ask for a replacement.

This then led to why the need to dispose of a freezer and the obvious conclusion was that something had been placed there that would contaninate it.
Dead bodies smell, they also leak fluids, so even though the body was frozen, it takes time to freeze and bodily fluids would have escaped, it would also have the smell of cadaverine and it would be hard to explain a cadaver dog reacting to a freezer in their apartment but not in anyone elses.

The fact that body fluids were found in the hire car 25 days after she went missing, the trunk had to be left open every night and passengers also noticed the smell indicates that Madekeine had been in there and was defrosting.

Gerry eventually stopped blogging and then deleted the blogs as people were seeing not only what his priorities were (himself, the tours, kate, media and the twins but Madeleine got little mention (the blogs are still available to read on pamalam's site

gerry mccanns blog entries

Thu Dec 08, 09:30:00 PM EST
shmi said...
Thanks Hobnob!

I agree that dumping a freezer in a place you rent is very suspicious behavior.

Was a freezer ever found by the police?

........................................................................................................................................................................

frencheuropean
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1187
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-11-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Statement Analysis

Post  Sponsored content Today at 10:10


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum