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Tip off anyone?

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  kathybelle on Thu 8 Dec - 8:48

marxman wrote:
Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:Just a point! If - having undertaken their 'review' of the case the Met find something that the PJ seriously overlooked in their investigations - would that be sufficient for the PJ to re-open the case would you know????

Hi NoStone I would think any evidence which the PJ did not investigate at the time , after almost 5 yrs would be worthless. However, if
there were enough clues the PJand SY could work together to try to investigate but it would not be sufficient to re-open the case unless
Madeleine was found dead or alive.IMO of course.

Hi NoStone and Panda

The point I was attempting to whittle-out was that it may
exactly be the investigative relationship between the two
national police services that has created the correct operational timing
and political momentum to bring this case to resolution.

GA, when he was co-ordinator, requested from the UK, a raft
of important information, banking, medical and other sensitive
security information. This was denied. Therefore, the case
stalled and could not be ignited without this data.

Therefore, I believe, that the information held by various UK
agencies, and freely available to SY may result in the 'tip-off'
that re-opens and resolves this case.

I also believe that many Brit and Portuguese politicians,
and high ranking police members of both countries, suspect
major criminal activities but quite rightly hesitate to settle
for lesser convictions.

Moreover, being an eternal optimist, I think that the time
that has evolved so far is really nothing considering a crime
that may 'make our jaws hit the floor'. Time is on the investigation
side.Remember the last question, and only question Kate felt
comfortable to answer of the 49? It may come to bite her.

All just my opinion of course.



Sorry Marxman, I have to disagree with you on the point where you say that the police from both countries, would be hesitant to settle for lesser convictions. The offences that the PJ were going to charge to McCanns with, were not as you put it lesser convictions. They were offences of neglect, which were made more serious, because if the McCanns were telling the truth and the PJ couldn't prove they weren't, Madeleine disappeared, while the McCanns were out and because she and her siblings were left unsupervised.

I am not and have never been a police officer, but I was married to a police officer, who served in the force during the 60's and 70's, until he was invalided out, for health reasons. I'll give an example into the way they worked in the UK and still do, if the police documentaries are true. The would charge someone with an offence and if they suspected the offender, was involved with other offences, they would keep investigating. If the police hadn't found anything by the time the offender went to court, the offender would be dealt with and if found guilty either fined or jailed, for the offences he committed so far.

The police could find evidence, that the jailed offender had committed and they would then bring charges against the jailed offender. If was proved, that the offender had committed those offences, would mean that he would have days, months or years, added to his current jail sentence. Some offenders have actually served their sentence in jail, then been re-arrested as they left the prison and prosecuted for offences they have committed, that have only just come to light.

The Portuguese authorities take the welfare of their children more serious than the British authorities do. For instance in this country, UK citizens are given nothing more than a slap on the wrist, if they are found to have left their children unsupervised when they go out, sometimes for a few hours.

Shortly after the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance, became public knowledge, a Portuguese born poster, who lived in the UK posted a couple of cases on a forum that I visited. One of the cases was about a Portuguese man who left his child outside of a shop in its pram, while he nipped in for a spot of shopping. He was reported and later jailed for that offence.

So going back to the point of the McCanns being prosecuted for neglect and the more serious charge of Madeleine disappearing while she was left alone. If the police worked on your theory, the McCanns would never face charges of the offences they've committed so far, which carry long prison sentence, if the police could not find evidence that the McCanns either gave Madeleine away or killed her.

It wouldn't surprise me if the McCanns were never charged with those offences, but in my opinion that would be for the same reason they weren't charged back in 2007, corruption by people within the British and Portugues authorities.

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  Panda on Thu 8 Dec - 9:02

Kathybelle, I read there was a case for child neglect in Portugal carrying a 1 year prison sentence which would certainly have applied to the McCanns . However, the case for neglect causing harm carried a 10 year sentence which the PJ were opting for and the "neglect"
charge was allowed to lapse.

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  kathybelle on Thu 8 Dec - 9:09

Panda wrote:Kathybelle, I read there was a case for child neglect in Portugal carrying a 1 year prison sentence which would certainly have applied to the McCanns . However, the case for neglect causing harm carried a 10 year sentence which the PJ were opting for and the "neglect"
charge was allowed to lapse.

Hi Panda, that is for child neglect, but the McCanns were going to also be charged with a more serious offence, because if they were speaking the truth, Madeleine disappeared when she was left unsupervised. This offence carries a much longer jail sentence. This is the offence they would have been charged with, if the British Government hadn't intervened.


Last edited by kathybelle on Thu 8 Dec - 9:22; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Afterthought)

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  kathybelle on Thu 8 Dec - 9:10

Panda wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
Panda wrote:
kitti wrote:The mccanns excuse for asking for the archiving off the case was because they were made arquidos and the pj or no other force was looking for Madeleine so Mitchell reported that the archiving was so the mccanns could look for her themselves and employ private detectives ....that was the mccanns excuse for the archiving.

Morning Kitti, that"s B****hit....the McCanns hired Metodo 3 much against the Portugese directive that they do not allow secondary
investigation. It was Ribiero who turned a blind eye to it and Metodo 3 were hired BEFORE the McCanns were made arguidos. I think the
PJ archived the case because they felt every avenue had been explored and the McCanns were interfering too much.

Good morning Panda. In your opinion, was Goncalo Amaral telling lies, when he said publicly that the McCanns demanding the archiving the case? Or as he put it the process of the investigation.

As for the PJ exploring every avenue, I keep saying that Goncalo Amaral and a senior Portuguese police officer, both said that the British Government intervened, when the PJ wanted to bring charges against them. I will find that information I am sure, in the archived pages on the Joana Morais board.

Morning kathybelle, to be honest I never read that Amaral suggested that it was the McCanns who demanded the archiving and wouldn"t even know where to look for such info. Remember, we were getting information from the British Press which always has to be
taken with a pinch of salt. One interesting report if you can find it, is the departure of Almeida who was apparently removed from the
investigation because of his outspoken views on the McCann claim that Madeleine was abducted.

It looks like I am the only poster on here, who followed the court case, between the McCanns and Goncalo Amaral, live on the Sky Website in 2010. If I wasn't I'm sure that the information I have given more than once, would be verified by others who watched the court case.

Good morning Panda, I never read newspapers, because as it has been proved time and time again, they distort the truth.

Here is the link where Goncalo Amaral says the McCanns demanded the archiving of the process of investigation.
http://www.gerrymccann-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2009/09/pj-chief-inspector-report-sept-2007.html

The information is on the right hand side of the page.

It looks like you have to sign in to read this link, so if you type in your search box, NHS:The McCanns Abuse of Power, you will come to the information.



Last edited by kathybelle on Thu 8 Dec - 9:19; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  Panda on Thu 8 Dec - 9:17

kathybelle, I did point out the higher charge "However, the case for neglect causing harm carried a 10 year sentence which the PJ were opting for and the "neglect" charge was allowed to lapse"

thanks for the link but when I tried it you have to be a member of the Blog to read it,

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  duncanmac on Thu 8 Dec - 9:18

Just found this in the archives.

Aug 8 2007

Phone intercepts confirm Maddy's death

Intercepted telephone calls and emails between the McCanns and their friends have "confirmed the death of Madeleine" say police, according to one Portuguese newspaper today. The intercepts are said to have been made in a joint operation conducted by Portuguese and British police officers.

Diario de Noticias reports investigators have already concluded that the missing four-year-old was killed in the apartment where she slept in Praia da Luz.

It says that Maddy's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann (right), and their friends who were holidaying at the Ocean Club, will be brought in for further questioning. Police are awaiting new tests from the McCanns' Renault Scenic.

According to another paper, Jornal de Noticias, police want to examine inconsistencies in the statements of Kate and Gerry McCann, who were interviewed separately late into the night early on in the investigation. In particular, they want to focus on a three-hour period in which only the McCanns saw Madeleine.

Respected news agency Lusa quotes one police source saying that they think "there's light at the end of the tunnel" and that the authorities have "an idea of what could have happened" to the four-year-old.

Police have known "for a month" that Madeleine had died in the apartment, it is widely reported. The tabloid newspaper 24 Horas says that the police are looking for Madeleine's body in the sea, helped by English sniffer dogs. They have intensified searches around the nearby town of Lagos and along the Algarvian coast, it says.

Blood found in the apartment two days ago has arrived in Britain for DNA analysis: a result can be expected inside 48 hours.

http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?a ... tName=Hill
_________________
Justice for Maddie and the twins!

This was sent to me by 2345 who has a copy of the original broadcast.



Live Report - 7th September - for BBC News 24

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebral fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". Also ... "Sousa himself also told of this very find mist of spray that was found in the apartment".

This piece of information was released only once that night. This was the day the McCann’s were interviewed and named as suspects; the FSS information was made known to McCann’s by Police who gave Jane Hill the information for media release.

For your own information, cerebral/spinal fluid are layman's terms for medical term - "cerebrospinal fluid" - the serum like fluid that bathes the ventricles of the brain and cavity of the spinal chord".

Reports in DX articles after Jane's report referred to cerebral fluid as spinal fluid - same thing, plus blood (scrubbed with cleaning fluid) and syringe. In addition, forensics and results of corpse specimen material in the wheel well.

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  kathybelle on Thu 8 Dec - 9:36

Panda wrote:kathybelle, I did point out the higher charge "However, the case for neglect causing harm carried a 10 year sentence which the PJ were opting for and the "neglect" charge was allowed to lapse"

thanks for the link but when I tried it you have to be a member of the Blog to read it,

Hi Panda, we seem to be going round in circles. The charges the PJ wanted to bring against the McCanns, were not for causing Madeleine harm, they were because Madeleine disappeared, while she was left unsupervised by the McCanns. There is a name for this charge and I think child abandonment is part of the name of the charge. Goncalo Amaral admitted making mistakes in the early part of the investigation and one of the mistakes that were made, was not arresting the McCanns, the minute they said they were out when Madeleine disappeared and that she and their other two children were left unsupervised.

Regarding the link, I edited the link to say that you wouldn't be able to access the link, but if you typed in your search box NHS: McCanns Abuse of Power, you would come to the information.

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  marxman on Thu 8 Dec - 9:45

kathybelle wrote:
marxman wrote:
Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:Just a point! If - having undertaken their 'review' of the case the Met find something that the PJ seriously overlooked in their investigations - would that be sufficient for the PJ to re-open the case would you know????

Hi NoStone I would think any evidence which the PJ did not investigate at the time , after almost 5 yrs would be worthless. However, if
there were enough clues the PJand SY could work together to try to investigate but it would not be sufficient to re-open the case unless
Madeleine was found dead or alive.IMO of course.

Hi NoStone and Panda

The point I was attempting to whittle-out was that it may
exactly be the investigative relationship between the two
national police services that has created the correct operational timing
and political momentum to bring this case to resolution.

GA, when he was co-ordinator, requested from the UK, a raft
of important information, banking, medical and other sensitive
security information. This was denied. Therefore, the case
stalled and could not be ignited without this data.

Therefore, I believe, that the information held by various UK
agencies, and freely available to SY may result in the 'tip-off'
that re-opens and resolves this case.

I also believe that many Brit and Portuguese politicians,
and high ranking police members of both countries, suspect
major criminal activities but quite rightly hesitate to settle
for lesser convictions.

Moreover, being an eternal optimist, I think that the time
that has evolved so far is really nothing considering a crime
that may 'make our jaws hit the floor'. Time is on the investigation
side.Remember the last question, and only question Kate felt
comfortable to answer of the 49? It may come to bite her.

All just my opinion of course.



Sorry Marxman, I have to disagree with you on the point where you say that the police from both countries, would be hesitant to settle for lesser convictions. The offences that the PJ were going to charge to McCanns with, were not as you put it lesser convictions. They were offences of neglect, which were made more serious, because if the McCanns were telling the truth and the PJ couldn't prove they weren't, Madeleine disappeared, while the McCanns were out and because she and her siblings were left unsupervised.

I am not and have never been a police officer, but I was married to a police officer, who served in the force during the 60's and 70's, until he was invalided out, for health reasons. I'll give an example into the way they worked in the UK and still do, if the police documentaries are true. The would charge someone with an offence and if they suspected the offender, was involved with other offences, they would keep investigating. If the police hadn't found anything by the time the offender went to court, the offender would be dealt with and if found guilty either fined or jailed, for the offences he committed so far.

The police could find evidence, that the jailed offender had committed and they would then bring charges against the jailed offender. If was proved, that the offender had committed those offences, would mean that he would have days, months or years, added to his current jail sentence. Some offenders have actually served their sentence in jail, then been re-arrested as they left the prison and prosecuted for offences they have committed, that have only just come to light.

The Portuguese authorities take the welfare of their children more serious than the British authorities do. For instance in this country, UK citizens are given nothing more than a slap on the wrist, if they are found to have left their children unsupervised when they go out, sometimes for a few hours.

Shortly after the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance, became public knowledge, a Portuguese born poster, who lived in the UK posted a couple of cases on a forum that I visited. One of the cases was about a Portuguese man who left his child outside of a shop in its pram, while he nipped in for a spot of shopping. He was reported and later jailed for that offence.

So going back to the point of the McCanns being prosecuted for neglect and the more serious charge of Madeleine disappearing while she was left alone. If the police worked on your theory, the McCanns would never face charges of the offences they've committed so far, which carry long prison sentence, if the police could not find evidence that the McCanns either gave Madeleine away or killed her.

It wouldn't surprise me if the McCanns were never charged with those offences, but in my opinion that would be for the same reason they weren't charged back in 2007, corruption by people within the British and Portugues authorities.

Hello Kathybelle and thankyou for your response.
I understand what you say and I agree with you regarding individual responsibilities and conviction of wrong doing. However, I
was exploring the possibility of criminal 'activities' as in a collective sense, meaning that they sought to capture and negate
the entire criminal enterprise, if such an entity exists. Convicting individuals maybe a lesser result when something much bigger,
and more sinister is lurking behind. Many observers including GA have noted the huge political and economic
might that a merely couple has mustered, so, something big must be supporting this charade.

marxman
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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  Panda on Thu 8 Dec - 10:09

kathybelle wrote:
Panda wrote:kathybelle, I did point out the higher charge "However, the case for neglect causing harm carried a 10 year sentence which the PJ were opting for and the "neglect" charge was allowed to lapse"

thanks for the link but when I tried it you have to be a member of the Blog to read it,

Hi Panda, we seem to be going round in circles. The charges the PJ wanted to bring against the McCanns, were not for causing Madeleine harm, they were because Madeleine disappeared, while she was left unsupervised by the McCanns. There is a name for this charge and I think child abandonment is part of the name of the charge. Goncalo Amaral admitted making mistakes in the early part of the investigation and one of the mistakes that were made, was not arresting the McCanns, the minute they said they were out when Madeleine disappeared and that she and their other two children were left unsupervised.

Regarding the link, I edited the link to say that you wouldn't be able to access the link, but if you typed in your search box NHS: McCanns Abuse of Power, you would come to the information.

Thanks kathybelle

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  kathybelle on Thu 8 Dec - 10:12

marxman wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
marxman wrote:
Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:Just a point! If - having undertaken their 'review' of the case the Met find something that the PJ seriously overlooked in their investigations - would that be sufficient for the PJ to re-open the case would you know????

Hi NoStone I would think any evidence which the PJ did not investigate at the time , after almost 5 yrs would be worthless. However, if
there were enough clues the PJand SY could work together to try to investigate but it would not be sufficient to re-open the case unless
Madeleine was found dead or alive.IMO of course.

Hi NoStone and Panda

The point I was attempting to whittle-out was that it may
exactly be the investigative relationship between the two
national police services that has created the correct operational timing
and political momentum to bring this case to resolution.

GA, when he was co-ordinator, requested from the UK, a raft
of important information, banking, medical and other sensitive
security information. This was denied. Therefore, the case
stalled and could not be ignited without this data.

Therefore, I believe, that the information held by various UK
agencies, and freely available to SY may result in the 'tip-off'
that re-opens and resolves this case.

I also believe that many Brit and Portuguese politicians,
and high ranking police members of both countries, suspect
major criminal activities but quite rightly hesitate to settle
for lesser convictions.

Moreover, being an eternal optimist, I think that the time
that has evolved so far is really nothing considering a crime
that may 'make our jaws hit the floor'. Time is on the investigation
side.Remember the last question, and only question Kate felt
comfortable to answer of the 49? It may come to bite her.

All just my opinion of course.



Sorry Marxman, I have to disagree with you on the point where you say that the police from both countries, would be hesitant to settle for lesser convictions. The offences that the PJ were going to charge to McCanns with, were not as you put it lesser convictions. They were offences of neglect, which were made more serious, because if the McCanns were telling the truth and the PJ couldn't prove they weren't, Madeleine disappeared, while the McCanns were out and because she and her siblings were left unsupervised.

I am not and have never been a police officer, but I was married to a police officer, who served in the force during the 60's and 70's, until he was invalided out, for health reasons. I'll give an example into the way they worked in the UK and still do, if the police documentaries are true. The would charge someone with an offence and if they suspected the offender, was involved with other offences, they would keep investigating. If the police hadn't found anything by the time the offender went to court, the offender would be dealt with and if found guilty either fined or jailed, for the offences he committed so far.

The police could find evidence, that the jailed offender had committed and they would then bring charges against the jailed offender. If was proved, that the offender had committed those offences, would mean that he would have days, months or years, added to his current jail sentence. Some offenders have actually served their sentence in jail, then been re-arrested as they left the prison and prosecuted for offences they have committed, that have only just come to light.

The Portuguese authorities take the welfare of their children more serious than the British authorities do. For instance in this country, UK citizens are given nothing more than a slap on the wrist, if they are found to have left their children unsupervised when they go out, sometimes for a few hours.

Shortly after the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance, became public knowledge, a Portuguese born poster, who lived in the UK posted a couple of cases on a forum that I visited. One of the cases was about a Portuguese man who left his child outside of a shop in its pram, while he nipped in for a spot of shopping. He was reported and later jailed for that offence.

So going back to the point of the McCanns being prosecuted for neglect and the more serious charge of Madeleine disappearing while she was left alone. If the police worked on your theory, the McCanns would never face charges of the offences they've committed so far, which carry long prison sentence, if the police could not find evidence that the McCanns either gave Madeleine away or killed her.

It wouldn't surprise me if the McCanns were never charged with those offences, but in my opinion that would be for the same reason they weren't charged back in 2007, corruption by people within the British and Portugues authorities.

Hello Kathybelle and thankyou for your response.
I understand what you say and I agree with you regarding individual responsibilities and conviction of wrong doing. However, I
was exploring the possibility of criminal 'activities' as in a collective sense, meaning that they sought to capture and negate
the entire criminal enterprise, if such an entity exists. Convicting individuals maybe a lesser result when something much bigger,
and more sinister is lurking behind. Many observers including GA have noted the huge political and economic
might that a merely couple has mustered, so, something big must be supporting this charade.

Hi Marxman, well said. There is definitely something the McCanns are involved, with that has warrented their protection by the British Government and to some extent the British police. Although I don't believe it is the Met, because it is the Met who advised the PJ to make the McCanns arguidos.

The Government and the McCanns "friends in high places", were involved within the hour of the McCanns "finding" Madeleine gone. I remember Richard Branson getting very angry on television, when there was a chance the McCanns were going to be charged and prosecuted. He said he would pay for the best lawyers in the land, to represent the McCanns if they were prosecuted. He had already put £100k into the fund that was set up to find Madeleine.

On another note, I remember businessmen pledging money to add to the reward the newspaper groups were offering. I also remember those businessmen withdrawing their pledge, when the McCanns were made arguidos.

I have always wondered if the McCanns, some of their "friends in high places" and to some extent a member or members of the British Government, were or still are, part of a paedophile ring. I do believe that if the McCanns are eventually taken into custody and charged, they will squeal like pigs and name, names. Especially if there is a chance they will get a lighter sentence. As you say maybe this is what Scotland Yard are holding out for.

The McCanns have definitely lost their sparkle since the "Met" got involved. Gerry said they only partially got what they wanted, when David Cameron passed the conducting of the review over to the "Met". At the end of the review, Gerry and Kate may well get what they definitely don't want.... prosecution.

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  Panda on Thu 8 Dec - 10:16

duncanmac wrote:Just found this in the archives.

Aug 8 2007

Phone intercepts confirm Maddy's death

Intercepted telephone calls and emails between the McCanns and their friends have "confirmed the death of Madeleine" say police, according to one Portuguese newspaper today. The intercepts are said to have been made in a joint operation conducted by Portuguese and British police officers.

Diario de Noticias reports investigators have already concluded that the missing four-year-old was killed in the apartment where she slept in Praia da Luz.

It says that Maddy's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann (right), and their friends who were holidaying at the Ocean Club, will be brought in for further questioning. Police are awaiting new tests from the McCanns' Renault Scenic.

According to another paper, Jornal de Noticias, police want to examine inconsistencies in the statements of Kate and Gerry McCann, who were interviewed separately late into the night early on in the investigation. In particular, they want to focus on a three-hour period in which only the McCanns saw Madeleine.

Respected news agency Lusa quotes one police source saying that they think "there's light at the end of the tunnel" and that the authorities have "an idea of what could have happened" to the four-year-old.

Police have known "for a month" that Madeleine had died in the apartment, it is widely reported. The tabloid newspaper 24 Horas says that the police are looking for Madeleine's body in the sea, helped by English sniffer dogs. They have intensified searches around the nearby town of Lagos and along the Algarvian coast, it says.

Blood found in the apartment two days ago has arrived in Britain for DNA analysis: a result can be expected inside 48 hours.

http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?a ... tName=Hill
_________________
Justice for Maddie and the twins!

This was sent to me by 2345 who has a copy of the original broadcast.



Live Report - 7th September - for BBC News 24

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebral fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". Also ... "Sousa himself also told of this very find mist of spray that was found in the apartment".

This piece of information was released only once that night. This was the day the McCann’s were interviewed and named as suspects; the FSS information was made known to McCann’s by Police who gave Jane Hill the information for media release.

For your own information, cerebral/spinal fluid are layman's terms for medical term - "cerebrospinal fluid" - the serum like fluid that bathes the ventricles of the brain and cavity of the spinal chord".

Reports in DX articles after Jane's report referred to cerebral fluid as spinal fluid - same thing, plus blood (scrubbed with cleaning fluid) and syringe. In addition, forensics and results of corpse specimen material in the wheel well.

Thanks for this info duncanmac, the PJ went to Court to ask if the phone calls could be used in evidence at a Trial but the Court decided
it was too intrusive. I seem to remember a second report by the FSS saying the tests were inconclusive, they also said they destroyed
the samples because the PJ never asked for them to be returned.????

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  kathybelle on Thu 8 Dec - 10:18

Panda wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
Panda wrote:kathybelle, I did point out the higher charge "However, the case for neglect causing harm carried a 10 year sentence which the PJ were opting for and the "neglect" charge was allowed to lapse"

thanks for the link but when I tried it you have to be a member of the Blog to read it,

Hi Panda, we seem to be going round in circles. The charges the PJ wanted to bring against the McCanns, were not for causing Madeleine harm, they were because Madeleine disappeared, while she was left unsupervised by the McCanns. There is a name for this charge and I think child abandonment is part of the name of the charge. Goncalo Amaral admitted making mistakes in the early part of the investigation and one of the mistakes that were made, was not arresting the McCanns, the minute they said they were out when Madeleine disappeared and that she and their other two children were left unsupervised.

Regarding the link, I edited the link to say that you wouldn't be able to access the link, but if you typed in your search box NHS: McCanns Abuse of Power, you would come to the information.


Thanks kathybelle

Hi Panda, it's a pleasure. I'm not very good at explaining myself, I get really wound up with the way Madeleine, has appeared to have been pushed on the back burner in favour of her gruesome parents and it shows in my posts.

kathybelle
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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  pennylane on Thu 8 Dec - 10:52

kathybelle wrote:
marxman wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
marxman wrote:
Panda wrote:

Hi NoStone I would think any evidence which the PJ did not investigate at the time , after almost 5 yrs would be worthless. However, if
there were enough clues the PJand SY could work together to try to investigate but it would not be sufficient to re-open the case unless
Madeleine was found dead or alive.IMO of course.

Hi NoStone and Panda

The point I was attempting to whittle-out was that it may
exactly be the investigative relationship between the two
national police services that has created the correct operational timing
and political momentum to bring this case to resolution.

GA, when he was co-ordinator, requested from the UK, a raft
of important information, banking, medical and other sensitive
security information. This was denied. Therefore, the case
stalled and could not be ignited without this data.

Therefore, I believe, that the information held by various UK
agencies, and freely available to SY may result in the 'tip-off'
that re-opens and resolves this case.

I also believe that many Brit and Portuguese politicians,
and high ranking police members of both countries, suspect
major criminal activities but quite rightly hesitate to settle
for lesser convictions.

Moreover, being an eternal optimist, I think that the time
that has evolved so far is really nothing considering a crime
that may 'make our jaws hit the floor'. Time is on the investigation
side.Remember the last question, and only question Kate felt
comfortable to answer of the 49? It may come to bite her.

All just my opinion of course.



Sorry Marxman, I have to disagree with you on the point where you say that the police from both countries, would be hesitant to settle for lesser convictions. The offences that the PJ were going to charge to McCanns with, were not as you put it lesser convictions. They were offences of neglect, which were made more serious, because if the McCanns were telling the truth and the PJ couldn't prove they weren't, Madeleine disappeared, while the McCanns were out and because she and her siblings were left unsupervised.

I am not and have never been a police officer, but I was married to a police officer, who served in the force during the 60's and 70's, until he was invalided out, for health reasons. I'll give an example into the way they worked in the UK and still do, if the police documentaries are true. The would charge someone with an offence and if they suspected the offender, was involved with other offences, they would keep investigating. If the police hadn't found anything by the time the offender went to court, the offender would be dealt with and if found guilty either fined or jailed, for the offences he committed so far.

The police could find evidence, that the jailed offender had committed and they would then bring charges against the jailed offender. If was proved, that the offender had committed those offences, would mean that he would have days, months or years, added to his current jail sentence. Some offenders have actually served their sentence in jail, then been re-arrested as they left the prison and prosecuted for offences they have committed, that have only just come to light.

The Portuguese authorities take the welfare of their children more serious than the British authorities do. For instance in this country, UK citizens are given nothing more than a slap on the wrist, if they are found to have left their children unsupervised when they go out, sometimes for a few hours.

Shortly after the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance, became public knowledge, a Portuguese born poster, who lived in the UK posted a couple of cases on a forum that I visited. One of the cases was about a Portuguese man who left his child outside of a shop in its pram, while he nipped in for a spot of shopping. He was reported and later jailed for that offence.

So going back to the point of the McCanns being prosecuted for neglect and the more serious charge of Madeleine disappearing while she was left alone. If the police worked on your theory, the McCanns would never face charges of the offences they've committed so far, which carry long prison sentence, if the police could not find evidence that the McCanns either gave Madeleine away or killed her.

It wouldn't surprise me if the McCanns were never charged with those offences, but in my opinion that would be for the same reason they weren't charged back in 2007, corruption by people within the British and Portugues authorities.

Hello Kathybelle and thankyou for your response.
I understand what you say and I agree with you regarding individual responsibilities and conviction of wrong doing. However, I
was exploring the possibility of criminal 'activities' as in a collective sense, meaning that they sought to capture and negate
the entire criminal enterprise, if such an entity exists. Convicting individuals maybe a lesser result when something much bigger,
and more sinister is lurking behind. Many observers including GA have noted the huge political and economic
might that a merely couple has mustered, so, something big must be supporting this charade.

Hi Marxman, well said. There is definitely something the McCanns are involved, with that has warrented their protection by the British Government and to some extent the British police. Although I don't believe it is the Met, because it is the Met who advised the PJ to make the McCanns arguidos.

The Government and the McCanns "friends in high places", were involved within the hour of the McCanns "finding" Madeleine gone. I remember Richard Branson getting very angry on television, when there was a chance the McCanns were going to be charged and prosecuted. He said he would pay for the best lawyers in the land, to represent the McCanns if they were prosecuted. He had already put £100k into the fund that was set up to find Madeleine.

On another note, I remember businessmen pledging money to add to the reward the newspaper groups were offering. I also remember those businessmen withdrawing their pledge, when the McCanns were made arguidos.

I have always wondered if the McCanns, some of their "friends in high places" and to some extent a member or members of the British Government, were or still are, part of a paedophile ring. I do believe that if the McCanns are eventually taken into custody and charged, they will squeal like pigs and name, names. Especially if there is a chance they will get a lighter sentence. As you say maybe this is what Scotland Yard are holding out for.

The McCanns have definitely lost their sparkle since the "Met" got involved. Gerry said they only partially got what they wanted, when David Cameron passed the conducting of the review over to the "Met". At the end of the review, Gerry and Kate may well get what they definitely don't want.... prosecution.

Hi Kathybelle, I'm not sure the Met advising the PJ to make the Mc's arguidos, would be something to their detriment though? I remember reading long ago that the Mc's may have wanted to be made arguidos, as it meant they were safe from answering further questions.

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  Angelina on Thu 8 Dec - 10:57

Panda wrote:
duncanmac wrote:Just found this in the archives.

Aug 8 2007

Phone intercepts confirm Maddy's death

Intercepted telephone calls and emails between the McCanns and their friends have "confirmed the death of Madeleine" say police, according to one Portuguese newspaper today. The intercepts are said to have been made in a joint operation conducted by Portuguese and British police officers.

Diario de Noticias reports investigators have already concluded that the missing four-year-old was killed in the apartment where she slept in Praia da Luz.

It says that Maddy's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann (right), and their friends who were holidaying at the Ocean Club, will be brought in for further questioning. Police are awaiting new tests from the McCanns' Renault Scenic.

According to another paper, Jornal de Noticias, police want to examine inconsistencies in the statements of Kate and Gerry McCann, who were interviewed separately late into the night early on in the investigation. In particular, they want to focus on a three-hour period in which only the McCanns saw Madeleine.

Respected news agency Lusa quotes one police source saying that they think "there's light at the end of the tunnel" and that the authorities have "an idea of what could have happened" to the four-year-old.

Police have known "for a month" that Madeleine had died in the apartment, it is widely reported. The tabloid newspaper 24 Horas says that the police are looking for Madeleine's body in the sea, helped by English sniffer dogs. They have intensified searches around the nearby town of Lagos and along the Algarvian coast, it says.

Blood found in the apartment two days ago has arrived in Britain for DNA analysis: a result can be expected inside 48 hours.

http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?a ... tName=Hill
_________________
Justice for Maddie and the twins!

This was sent to me by 2345 who has a copy of the original broadcast.



Live Report - 7th September - for BBC News 24

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebral fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". Also ... "Sousa himself also told of this very find mist of spray that was found in the apartment".

This piece of information was released only once that night. This was the day the McCann’s were interviewed and named as suspects; the FSS information was made known to McCann’s by Police who gave Jane Hill the information for media release.

For your own information, cerebral/spinal fluid are layman's terms for medical term - "cerebrospinal fluid" - the serum like fluid that bathes the ventricles of the brain and cavity of the spinal chord".

Reports in DX articles after Jane's report referred to cerebral fluid as spinal fluid - same thing, plus blood (scrubbed with cleaning fluid) and syringe. In addition, forensics and results of corpse specimen material in the wheel well.

Thanks for this info duncanmac, the PJ went to Court to ask if the phone calls could be used in evidence at a Trial but the Court decided
it was too intrusive. I seem to remember a second report by the FSS saying the tests were inconclusive, they also said they destroyed
the samples because the PJ never asked for them to be returned.????

Hi Panda, those are 2 things I cannot understand in any way.

If there is anything that can prove the death of a child and those involved, how can that be too intrusive?

Why did the FSS destroy those samples....we've just had evidence in the Stephen Lawrence case re-examined after all those years. I thought evidence was kept where cases might be re-opened?

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  Oldartform on Thu 8 Dec - 11:28

gillyspot wrote:Sadly Oldartform that was me that said the review is not going to be transparent.

I have received a letter from high up within the Home Office and I have been advised that I will need a Freedom of Information Act request to get any information regarding the review.

No Gilly - I`m sure it wasn`t you. I`m sure I read it in the press, but thanks for highlighting their response.

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  Panda on Thu 8 Dec - 12:42

Angelina wrote:
Panda wrote:
duncanmac wrote:Just found this in the archives.

Aug 8 2007

Phone intercepts confirm Maddy's death

Intercepted telephone calls and emails between the McCanns and their friends have "confirmed the death of Madeleine" say police, according to one Portuguese newspaper today. The intercepts are said to have been made in a joint operation conducted by Portuguese and British police officers.

Diario de Noticias reports investigators have already concluded that the missing four-year-old was killed in the apartment where she slept in Praia da Luz.

It says that Maddy's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann (right), and their friends who were holidaying at the Ocean Club, will be brought in for further questioning. Police are awaiting new tests from the McCanns' Renault Scenic.

According to another paper, Jornal de Noticias, police want to examine inconsistencies in the statements of Kate and Gerry McCann, who were interviewed separately late into the night early on in the investigation. In particular, they want to focus on a three-hour period in which only the McCanns saw Madeleine.

Respected news agency Lusa quotes one police source saying that they think "there's light at the end of the tunnel" and that the authorities have "an idea of what could have happened" to the four-year-old.

Police have known "for a month" that Madeleine had died in the apartment, it is widely reported. The tabloid newspaper 24 Horas says that the police are looking for Madeleine's body in the sea, helped by English sniffer dogs. They have intensified searches around the nearby town of Lagos and along the Algarvian coast, it says.

Blood found in the apartment two days ago has arrived in Britain for DNA analysis: a result can be expected inside 48 hours.

http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?a ... tName=Hill
_________________
Justice for Maddie and the twins!

This was sent to me by 2345 who has a copy of the original broadcast.



Live Report - 7th September - for BBC News 24

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebral fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". Also ... "Sousa himself also told of this very find mist of spray that was found in the apartment".

This piece of information was released only once that night. This was the day the McCann’s were interviewed and named as suspects; the FSS information was made known to McCann’s by Police who gave Jane Hill the information for media release.

For your own information, cerebral/spinal fluid are layman's terms for medical term - "cerebrospinal fluid" - the serum like fluid that bathes the ventricles of the brain and cavity of the spinal chord".

Reports in DX articles after Jane's report referred to cerebral fluid as spinal fluid - same thing, plus blood (scrubbed with cleaning fluid) and syringe. In addition, forensics and results of corpse specimen material in the wheel well.

Thanks for this info duncanmac, the PJ went to Court to ask if the phone calls could be used in evidence at a Trial but the Court decided
it was too intrusive. I seem to remember a second report by the FSS saying the tests were inconclusive, they also said they destroyed
the samples because the PJ never asked for them to be returned.????

Hi Panda, those are 2 things I cannot understand in any way.

If there is anything that can prove the death of a child and those involved, how can that be too intrusive?

Why did the FSS destroy those samples....we've just had evidence in the Stephen Lawrence case re-examined after all those years. I thought evidence was kept where cases might be re-opened?

Hi Angelina, I can only assume it was U.K. Government interference. If you remember, Gordon Brown met with Socrates and signed the Treaty.......could it be that a word in Socrates ear was enough to ensure the phone calls would not be admissable and someone in
the FSS was told to destroy the samples.? The FSS was considered so incompetent that several Police Stations had access to their
own Forensic Departments, FSS was sold to an American Company as far as I remember. To be honest, there is so much Political intrigue
I wouldn"t trust anyone in Government. I also wonder what it is about the McCanns that they can manipulate the Government, Press
and Police.

Panda
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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  kathybelle on Thu 8 Dec - 21:29

pennylane wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
marxman wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
marxman wrote:

Hi NoStone and Panda

The point I was attempting to whittle-out was that it may
exactly be the investigative relationship between the two
national police services that has created the correct operational timing
and political momentum to bring this case to resolution.

GA, when he was co-ordinator, requested from the UK, a raft
of important information, banking, medical and other sensitive
security information. This was denied. Therefore, the case
stalled and could not be ignited without this data.

Therefore, I believe, that the information held by various UK
agencies, and freely available to SY may result in the 'tip-off'
that re-opens and resolves this case.

I also believe that many Brit and Portuguese politicians,
and high ranking police members of both countries, suspect
major criminal activities but quite rightly hesitate to settle
for lesser convictions.

Moreover, being an eternal optimist, I think that the time
that has evolved so far is really nothing considering a crime
that may 'make our jaws hit the floor'. Time is on the investigation
side.Remember the last question, and only question Kate felt
comfortable to answer of the 49? It may come to bite her.

All just my opinion of course.



Sorry Marxman, I have to disagree with you on the point where you say that the police from both countries, would be hesitant to settle for lesser convictions. The offences that the PJ were going to charge to McCanns with, were not as you put it lesser convictions. They were offences of neglect, which were made more serious, because if the McCanns were telling the truth and the PJ couldn't prove they weren't, Madeleine disappeared, while the McCanns were out and because she and her siblings were left unsupervised.

I am not and have never been a police officer, but I was married to a police officer, who served in the force during the 60's and 70's, until he was invalided out, for health reasons. I'll give an example into the way they worked in the UK and still do, if the police documentaries are true. The would charge someone with an offence and if they suspected the offender, was involved with other offences, they would keep investigating. If the police hadn't found anything by the time the offender went to court, the offender would be dealt with and if found guilty either fined or jailed, for the offences he committed so far.

The police could find evidence, that the jailed offender had committed and they would then bring charges against the jailed offender. If was proved, that the offender had committed those offences, would mean that he would have days, months or years, added to his current jail sentence. Some offenders have actually served their sentence in jail, then been re-arrested as they left the prison and prosecuted for offences they have committed, that have only just come to light.

The Portuguese authorities take the welfare of their children more serious than the British authorities do. For instance in this country, UK citizens are given nothing more than a slap on the wrist, if they are found to have left their children unsupervised when they go out, sometimes for a few hours.

Shortly after the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance, became public knowledge, a Portuguese born poster, who lived in the UK posted a couple of cases on a forum that I visited. One of the cases was about a Portuguese man who left his child outside of a shop in its pram, while he nipped in for a spot of shopping. He was reported and later jailed for that offence.

So going back to the point of the McCanns being prosecuted for neglect and the more serious charge of Madeleine disappearing while she was left alone. If the police worked on your theory, the McCanns would never face charges of the offences they've committed so far, which carry long prison sentence, if the police could not find evidence that the McCanns either gave Madeleine away or killed her.

It wouldn't surprise me if the McCanns were never charged with those offences, but in my opinion that would be for the same reason they weren't charged back in 2007, corruption by people within the British and Portugues authorities.

Hello Kathybelle and thankyou for your response.
I understand what you say and I agree with you regarding individual responsibilities and conviction of wrong doing. However, I
was exploring the possibility of criminal 'activities' as in a collective sense, meaning that they sought to capture and negate
the entire criminal enterprise, if such an entity exists. Convicting individuals maybe a lesser result when something much bigger,
and more sinister is lurking behind. Many observers including GA have noted the huge political and economic
might that a merely couple has mustered, so, something big must be supporting this charade.

Hi Marxman, well said. There is definitely something the McCanns are involved, with that has warrented their protection by the British Government and to some extent the British police. Although I don't believe it is the Met, because it is the Met who advised the PJ to make the McCanns arguidos.

The Government and the McCanns "friends in high places", were involved within the hour of the McCanns "finding" Madeleine gone. I remember Richard Branson getting very angry on television, when there was a chance the McCanns were going to be charged and prosecuted. He said he would pay for the best lawyers in the land, to represent the McCanns if they were prosecuted. He had already put £100k into the fund that was set up to find Madeleine.

On another note, I remember businessmen pledging money to add to the reward the newspaper groups were offering. I also remember those businessmen withdrawing their pledge, when the McCanns were made arguidos.

I have always wondered if the McCanns, some of their "friends in high places" and to some extent a member or members of the British Government, were or still are, part of a paedophile ring. I do believe that if the McCanns are eventually taken into custody and charged, they will squeal like pigs and name, names. Especially if there is a chance they will get a lighter sentence. As you say maybe this is what Scotland Yard are holding out for.

The McCanns have definitely lost their sparkle since the "Met" got involved. Gerry said they only partially got what they wanted, when David Cameron passed the conducting of the review over to the "Met". At the end of the review, Gerry and Kate may well get what they definitely don't want.... prosecution.

Hi Kathybelle, I'm not sure the Met advising the PJ to make the Mc's arguidos, would be something to their detriment though? I remember reading long ago that the Mc's may have wanted to be made arguidos, as it meant they were safe from answering further questions.

You're right Penny Lane, I also heard Robert Murat's lawyer say that he asked for arguido status, because it gave him certain rights, such as the right to have a lawyer present and the right to remain silent.

The difference between Robert Murat and the McCanns is, he cooperated fully with the PJ and when he received the arguido status, he didn't flee out of Portugal on the first available plane.

An arguido is supposed to attend the police station where they were made arguidos, at a time specified when they are made arguidos, but it's normally once a week. The McCanns were given a police escort to the airport and they didn't visit Portugal again until their arguido status had been lifted.

I always wondered why the British Government, didn't rush to help Robert Murat in the same way they helped the child neglecting McCanns.

I read that Robert Murat, regretted asking for arguido status. Once the police found he had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance and they returned all his property, he expected to be released from the status. The police said he would have to wait until the outcome of the McCanns arguido status, before he would be released from his status.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I read that the police didn't want to release him from his status, in case he spoke to the press.


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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  gillyspot on Thu 8 Dec - 22:04

Oldartform wrote:
gillyspot wrote:Sadly Oldartform that was me that said the review is not going to be transparent.

I have received a letter from high up within the Home Office and I have been advised that I will need a Freedom of Information Act request to get any information regarding the review.

No Gilly - I`m sure it wasn`t you. I`m sure I read it in the press, but thanks for highlighting their response.

Hi I have shared it on here. Here is the second page of my response from the Home Office. Look near the bottom

http://www.flickr.com/photos/70005991@N06/6358432617/

FOI required direct from the Home Office

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Re: Tip off anyone?

Post  NoStone on Thu 8 Dec - 22:32

duncanmac wrote:Just found this in the archives.

Aug 8 2007

Phone intercepts confirm Maddy's death

Intercepted telephone calls and emails between the McCanns and their friends have "confirmed the death of Madeleine" say police, according to one Portuguese newspaper today. The intercepts are said to have been made in a joint operation conducted by Portuguese and British police officers.

Diario de Noticias reports investigators have already concluded that the missing four-year-old was killed in the apartment where she slept in Praia da Luz.

This would explain why the Mc's are so adament that their phones were not hacked (how would they know?) as they would not want to stir up any interest in folks rooting about and finding the police hacked their calls - legitimately of course!!!

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Re: Tip off anyone?

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