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Innocent Until Proven Guilty

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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Post  almostgothic on Tue 10 Jan - 11:49

20 Strange and Funny UK Laws

http://best-hoaxes.blogspot.com/2009/02/20-strange-and-funny-uk-laws.html

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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Post  Oldartform on Tue 10 Jan - 14:03

platinum wrote:
Oldartform wrote:
platinum wrote:

I also believe it is incumbent on all of us to respect that presumption even if we do not believe it or might be working to overturn it.

I do find this a weird turn of phrase which is the sort of dictum coming from the mouth of a priest or someone who feels her/himself superior. You may feel it is incumbent on yourself but I`m sure most people with their own minds do not believe it is incumbent on us to respect something or someone we have absolutely no belief in whether the law says so or not. If we did, we would be no more than robots and what sort of world would that be.


Well again I beg to differ (as is my right) but I think we should all respect the law. If we don't anarchy will ensue. And it is the law that people are presumed innocent until proven guilty. If you don't believe so try standing at the gates of Chelsea shouting that their captain is guilty of the crime of which he has been accused. See what happens. I bet the police would step in very quickly and quite rightly.

Anarchy is not necessarily a negative thing. Without rebellion the world would be ruled by despots. The Arab Spring is anarchic and only the despots themselves would think it negative. Yes, ideally the law is respected but obviously not when there is injustice.




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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Post  jejune on Thu 12 Jan - 1:13

"But in the UK Supreme Court Lord Phillips said today, "I see no reason
in principle why confiscation should not be based on evidence that
satisfies the civil standard, notwithstanding that it has proved
insufficiently compelling to found a conviction on application of the
criminal standard". Or to put it another way 'just because it cannot be proved that he did it, does not mean that he didn't do it'..."
http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/group-thread/presumption-innocence

"According to the U.S. Supreme Court, the presumption of the innocence
of a criminal defendant is best described as an assumption of innocence
that is indulged in the absence of contrary evidence (Taylor v. Kentucky,
436 U.S. 478, 98 S. Ct. 1930, 56 L. Ed. 2d 468 [1978]). It is not
considered evidence of the defendant's innocence, and it does not
require that a mandatory inference favorable to the defendant be drawn
from any facts in evidence. ..."
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/presumption+of+innocence

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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Post  Guest on Thu 12 Jan - 7:55

That's the first half-way sensible thing Leveson has said so far.

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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Post  NoStone on Thu 12 Jan - 11:08

jejune wrote:"But in the UK Supreme Court Lord Phillips said today, "I see no reason
in principle why confiscation should not be based on evidence that
satisfies the civil standard, notwithstanding that it has proved
insufficiently compelling to found a conviction on application of the
criminal standard". Or to put it another way 'just because it cannot be proved that he did it, does not mean that he didn't do it'..."
http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/group-thread/presumption-innocence

"According to the U.S. Supreme Court, the presumption of the innocence
of a criminal defendant is best described as an assumption of innocence
that is indulged in the absence of contrary evidence (Taylor v. Kentucky,
436 U.S. 478, 98 S. Ct. 1930, 56 L. Ed. 2d 468 [1978]). It is not
considered evidence of the defendant's innocence, and it does not
require that a mandatory inference favorable to the defendant be drawn
from any facts in evidence. ..."
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/presumption+of+innocence

Thanks JeJune. The Mc's and their supporters can no longer walk around as if they are innocent just because they have not been found guilty in a court of law - innocence is assumed until evidence shows up that they may be guilty at which point the assumption ends - and OMG - there is shedfuls of that following them around is there not?? Lets start with negligence.........

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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Post  Guest on Thu 12 Jan - 11:10

............. failing to properly assist the Police with their enquiries .............

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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Post  Velvet on Fri 13 Jan - 9:42

Claudia79 wrote:
Loopdaloop wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:

Well, if the person in question shares the McCann parenting style, they wouldn't probably notice the child was absent. Or notice it and be relieved. They could stay at the Tapas a bit longer.


Well Kate was 'renowned for her binge drinking' and staying out as long as she could!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483392/Kate-McCann-renowned-alcoholic-binges-university.html
Kate McCann was nicknamed 'Hot Lips Healy' during her carefree student days at Dundee University.

Kate Healy, as she was then, was 'renowned for alcoholic binges and dance till you drop nocturnal activities', according to her year book of 1992.
However friends say Kate, was one of the most popular students in the medical department and have spoke of their shock at the allegations made by the Portuguese police.
One former classmate, now a doctor, said: "Kate was great fun, always up for a laugh and a party. She was certainly more interested in going to the pub than she was in her studies. Although she seemed to pass her exams with ease."


Well, if she had no kids, she could do that until her nineties for all I care. Problem is she has kids. And one of them tragically paid for her parents' mistakes.

She has kids NOW. She didnt when she was a student and it was then when she was apparently renowned for binge drinking. Like many other students, I also would have been labeled as this. As a mother several years later however I am not, and I believe it to be true of Kate Mccann too. People seem to be bringing up her past as if she was the same after her children were born, which I believe to be untrue.

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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Post  margaret on Fri 13 Jan - 10:23

Velvet wrote:
She has kids NOW. She didnt when she was a student and it was then when she was apparently renowned for binge drinking. Like many other students, I also would have been labeled as this. As a mother several years later however I am not, and I believe it to be true of Kate Mccann too. People seem to be bringing up her past as if she was the same after her children were born, which I believe to be untrue.

But velvet, she shoved the kids in the creche every moment she could during the holidays and she went out as if she didn't have kids every night of her holiday. There were 8 bottles of wine consumed most nights at the tapas bar, if Kate wasn't drinking alot of it others were, and that makes them binge drinkers.

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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Post  Claudia79 on Fri 13 Jan - 14:59

Velvet wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
Loopdaloop wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:

Well, if the person in question shares the McCann parenting style, they wouldn't probably notice the child was absent. Or notice it and be relieved. They could stay at the Tapas a bit longer.


Well Kate was 'renowned for her binge drinking' and staying out as long as she could!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483392/Kate-McCann-renowned-alcoholic-binges-university.html
Kate McCann was nicknamed 'Hot Lips Healy' during her carefree student days at Dundee University.

Kate Healy, as she was then, was 'renowned for alcoholic binges and dance till you drop nocturnal activities', according to her year book of 1992.
However friends say Kate, was one of the most popular students in the medical department and have spoke of their shock at the allegations made by the Portuguese police.
One former classmate, now a doctor, said: "Kate was great fun, always up for a laugh and a party. She was certainly more interested in going to the pub than she was in her studies. Although she seemed to pass her exams with ease."


Well, if she had no kids, she could do that until her nineties for all I care. Problem is she has kids. And one of them tragically paid for her parents' mistakes.

She has kids NOW. She didnt when she was a student and it was then when she was apparently renowned for binge drinking. Like many other students, I also would have been labeled as this. As a mother several years later however I am not, and I believe it to be true of Kate Mccann too. People seem to be bringing up her past as if she was the same after her children were born, which I believe to be untrue.

So, she didn't go on holiday with three kids and return home with two? Did I just have a bad dream? Didn't her child disappear from the face of the Earth while she was eating and drinking happily while her three under four year old children were left to fend for themselves in a holiday apartment in a foreign country? Relieved to know it didn't happen.

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Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

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