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Those wretched curtains again.

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Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Wintabells on Wed 18 Jan - 1:19



So, according to this version, she went in to do her chechhh... then noticed the kids' door was more open than before ('could Matt have left it like that?') so she went to close it and it slammed, so she checked if the patio door was open (why? she's going straight back out isn't she?) so then she 'went back...just to open the door a little bit'. So, thus far, she seems to have no intention of actually checking her children are all present and correct and living and breathing, but wants to simply make sure their door is left at the correct degree of open-ness and then go back out.

Anyway, she happened to glance at M's bed and then realised she couldn't work out if she was in it or not, kept looking for 'what felt like minutes' and then realised she wasn't there. Went to see if M had gone into parents' room and then returned to the kids room. As she went back in, the curtains blew up and she saw that the shutters were up and the window was open, blah blah blah.

Firstly, I thought she originally said that she was puzzled by the childrens' bedroom door being more open than it had been left (no mention of her thinking it may have been Matt who did this) and secondly.... how come she didn't notice, whilst she was puzzling about whether or not Madeleine was in her bed for 'what felt like minutes', that the bloody window was open??




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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  jinvta on Wed 18 Jan - 4:41

Kate's story regarding how she found the room and when she noticed the window was open are constantly changing. According to her witness statement of 4 May:

"At around 10pm, the witness came to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed, but unlocked, as already said, and immediately noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.

Faced with this altered situation, she verified that the twins were in their beds, unlike Madeleine, who had disappeared. The cover was neatly pulled back and the toys were on the pillow as usual. After searching the whole apartment thoroughly, and already quite scared and unnerved, she returned to the restaurant, and alerted her husband and the rest of the group to the disappearance. The group immediately headed to the club, and set about searching in all the buildings, swimming pool, tennis courts etc... as well as in the apartment with the help of employees. At the same time, they contacted the authorities, which would later arrive."

So according to this statement, she immediately noticed the open window and open curtains (not blowing curtains), and it was this "altered situation" which made her think about checking to see if the kids were in their beds. This is a very badly told lie, which changes every single time Kate tells it.

It is also very interesting to note that Kate's witness statement of 6 September ends just before her check, to be continued the next day. The next day, 7 September, she is declared an arguida and the line of questioning starts with her 10 pm check:

"She now possesses arguida status, and the rights and duties that assist her are explained to her, and she is subject to TIR [“termo de identidade e residência”, the lowest coercion measure that is automatically applicable, and consists of stating one’s name and residence].

She is informed of the facts that befall her, and said that she does not wish to make a statement.

When asked, on the 3rd of May 2007, at around 10 p.m., when she entered the apartment, what she saw and what she did, where she searched, what she handled, she did not reply."

I believe that the PJ clearly know that the 10 pm check is completely fabricated.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Panda on Wed 18 Jan - 6:01

Kate mentions Matthew Oldfield going into the apartment at 9.30pm, but he says he didn"t , that he listened at the window. Now I presume he means the
childrens bedroom , but that would have had the shutters down and if he listened from the Patio Door how far away from the childrens Bedroom is that?

If any of the children were crying he would have heard before reaching the Patio Door, Mrs Fenn heard from upstairs.!!

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  jinvta on Wed 18 Jan - 6:13

Panda, Matthew claims that he listened at the window at his 9:00/9:05 check and that he did enter the apartment through the unlocked patio door at his 9:30 check. He even claims to have seen the twins breathing, yet somehow didn't notice the window and curtains wide open as Kate claims to have seen. Personally, I don't believe that he conducted either of these checks.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Panda on Wed 18 Jan - 6:31

jinvta wrote:Panda, Matthew claims that he listened at the window at his 9:00/9:05 check and that he did enter the apartment through the unlocked patio door at his 9:30 check. He even claims to have seen the twins breathing, yet somehow didn't notice the window and curtains wide open as Kate claims to have seen. Personally, I don't believe that he conducted either of these checks.

Morning jinvta, how could Matthew claim a check at 9pm when Gerry was supposed to have checked at the same time . In the documentary made by Mentorn and shown on Channel 4, Oldfield says he didn"t go into the apartment but listened at the window. I seem to remember it was Oldfield who supposedly returned to Portugal to change his statement and Kate deliberately lied to Piers Morgan. I believe the Book cover was used to create a
timeline for the McCanns , Oldfield and OBrien before the Police arrived which is why the call to the Police Station was timed at 10.41pm.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  jinvta on Wed 18 Jan - 6:45

Matthew can claim whatever he wants, but it doesn't mean it is true. He does in fact claim a 9:00 check, which in later statements turned into a trip to hurry up the Paynes in which he just happened to listen outside all windows. He even claims to have been insulted that Gerry would get up to go check when Matthew had just returned and claimed to have listened outside the McCanns window and everything was quiet. Matthew is a bold-faced liar and I believe him to be the weak link in the diabolical plot. He would be sure to break down under further questioning.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Panda on Wed 18 Jan - 7:00

jinvta wrote:Matthew can claim whatever he wants, but it doesn't mean it is true. He does in fact claim a 9:00 check, which in later statements turned into a trip to hurry up the Paynes in which he just happened to listen outside all windows. He even claims to have been insulted that Gerry would get up to go check when Matthew had just returned and claimed to have listened outside the McCanns window and everything was quiet. Matthew is a bold-faced liar and I believe him to be the weak link in the diabolical plot. He would be sure to break down under further questioning.

If he has claimed all that why the Hell didn"t the Pj order a recon before the McCanns left Portugal ?, For starters the Paynes had their own Baby Monitor
and were on a floor above.! Secondly the Tapas 7 could never have refused to attend, at the expense of the PJ because Madeleine's disappearance
was still very fresh and the recon would only have taken a few hours. Sadly any chance of finding out what happened is now lost and the McCanns know it
that's why they can continue to lie.


Last edited by Panda on Wed 18 Jan - 8:22; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  gillyspot on Wed 18 Jan - 7:47

jinvta wrote:Panda, Matthew claims that he listened at the window at his 9:00/9:05 check and that he did enter the apartment through the unlocked patio door at his 9:30 check. He even claims to have seen the twins breathing, yet somehow didn't notice the window and curtains wide open as Kate claims to have seen. Personally, I don't believe that he conducted either of these checks.

From Matthews' rogatory

" So I approached the room but I didn't actually go in because you could see the twins in the cots and one of the, you could see the twins in the cots because they're in with, sort of the cots were in the middle of the room with sort of a gap of about sort of maybe a foot between the two, the cots had sort of got that fabric end and sort of a mesh side, so you could see the sides and you could see them breathing and there were two there and it was all completely quiet. And the other things you could see in the room, there was a, there was another bed at the back underneath the window at the far side and you could see the end of the bed, another bed here. And because I was looking for, well people say, well why didn't you go in the room, why didn't you check on Madeleine"


How could he have seen the twins "breathing" without seeing Madeleine in her bed as her she was closest to the door?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_15.jpg


Also if you look the brown cot doesn't have mesh ends so he couldn't have seen a toddler "breathing" through it.




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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Panda on Wed 18 Jan - 8:31

Morning gillyspot, thanks for finding Oldfields' interview. After reading that I"m sure he returned to Portugal to amend it.

Kate is such a blatant liar it is no wonder her role in the Mentorn production using an American Actress bearing a striking resemblance to her ended up on the cutting room floor. Kate says in the Piers Morgan interview that she only opened the door slightly, not to let too much light in which might wake the
children,,, yet Oldfield says he could see the cots.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  kathybelle on Wed 18 Jan - 9:02

The mother of one of the Tapas group said each couple only checked their own children, but if this wasn't true, why were all these people checking on the McCanns children as well as their own? On the night Madeleine disappeared, someone was supposed to have checked the children at 21:00hrs, Gerry said he checked them at 21:05, someone checked them at 21:30. I don't know if someone was supposed to have checked the children at 21:45, but Kate said she checked them at 22:00hrs, when she "discovered" Madeleine was missing.

Does anyone know if the McCanns checked the Tapas groups children? After all Madeleine was the eldest of all the children and as far as I am aware, some were younger than the twins and one was even ill.

I don't believe any of the stories about the checks, a waiter from the Tapas Bar, said that some nights none of the group left their tables to check on their children. Of course he too could have been telling lies. The only true fact in this case is, Madeleine has disappeared without trace.

A reward of over £1million hasn't tempted anyone to come forward with information, other than the ones who supplied false information. The McCanns never mention the reward, which was pledged by newspaper groups, wealthy business people, celebrities and a couple of footballers.

The McCanns and their extended family, are using the fund money to assist their finances and no one seems to be bothered.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Panda on Wed 18 Jan - 9:51

kathybelle wrote:The mother of one of the Tapas group said each couple only checked their own children, but if this wasn't true, why were all these people checking on the McCanns children as well as their own? On the night Madeleine disappeared, someone was supposed to have checked the children at 21:00hrs, Gerry said he checked them at 21:05, someone checked them at 21:30. I don't know if someone was supposed to have checked the children at 21:45, but Kate said she checked them at 22:00hrs, when she "discovered" Madeleine was missing.

Does anyone know if the McCanns checked the Tapas groups children? After all Madeleine was the eldest of all the children and as far as I am aware, some were younger than the twins and one was even ill.

I don't believe any of the stories about the checks, a waiter from the Tapas Bar, said that some nights none of the group left their tables to check on their children. Of course he too could have been telling lies. The only true fact in this case is, Madeleine has disappeared without trace.

A reward of over £1million hasn't tempted anyone to come forward with information, other than the ones who supplied false information. The McCanns never mention the reward, which was pledged by newspaper groups, wealthy business people, celebrities and a couple of footballers.

The McCanns and their extended family, are using the fund money to assist their finances and no one seems to be bothered.

Morning Kathybelle, Yes , the McCanns do seem to lead a charmed life......leave their children young children unattended every night until one goes
missing . No charge of neglect , set up a Company to receive generous donations from the public, make a load of money from interviews and
write a risque novel to make even more money, all the time garnering Friends and Supporters in High places, not bad going eh????

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Chris on Wed 18 Jan - 11:09

I have never understood why the light levels in the room wouldn't immediately cause alarm if the shutter was raised. Isn't there a street light on the corner of the street opposite the bedroom side of the apartment.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 18 Jan - 11:16

Chris wrote:I have never understood why the light levels in the room wouldn't immediately cause alarm if the shutter was raised. Isn't there a street light on the corner of the street opposite the bedroom side of the apartment.

If the street light had been making the room lighter, wouldn't Kate McCann have noticed that immediately?

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  pennylane on Wed 18 Jan - 11:18

AnnaEsse wrote:
Chris wrote:I have never understood why the light levels in the room wouldn't immediately cause alarm if the shutter was raised. Isn't there a street light on the corner of the street opposite the bedroom side of the apartment.

If the street light had been making the room lighter, wouldn't Kate McCann have noticed that immediately?

Yep! Another, in a long list of reasons, for TM to give the reconstruction a very, very wide berth!

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 18 Jan - 11:20

pennylane wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
Chris wrote:I have never understood why the light levels in the room wouldn't immediately cause alarm if the shutter was raised. Isn't there a street light on the corner of the street opposite the bedroom side of the apartment.

If the street light had been making the room lighter, wouldn't Kate McCann have noticed that immediately?

Yep! Another, in a long list of reasons, for TM to give the reconstruction a very, very wide berth!

Apart from noticing the door being slightly more open, I'm sure she would have noticed that the room was a lot lighter if the shutters had been up and the window open before the billowing curtains alerted her to it.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  pennylane on Wed 18 Jan - 11:41

AnnaEsse wrote:
pennylane wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
Chris wrote:I have never understood why the light levels in the room wouldn't immediately cause alarm if the shutter was raised. Isn't there a street light on the corner of the street opposite the bedroom side of the apartment.

If the street light had been making the room lighter, wouldn't Kate McCann have noticed that immediately?

Yep! Another, in a long list of reasons, for TM to give the reconstruction a very, very wide berth!

Apart from noticing the door being slightly more open, I'm sure she would have noticed that the room was a lot lighter if the shutters had been up and the window open before the billowing curtains alerted her to it.

Not to mention the chill and whiff of fresh air in the room and hall.

Kate's arm movements are exactly the same each time she tells the story... there's the forward 'whoosh' hand/arm movements of the curtains blowing open; the 'heil hitler' type sign of the shutter being up, and the cross body arm movement of the window supposedly drawn across....

There's enough movements there to make up a new dance up.......'The Funky Shutter!'


Last edited by pennylane on Wed 18 Jan - 12:06; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Guest on Wed 18 Jan - 11:45

@pennylane



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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  pennylane on Wed 18 Jan - 11:50

The End Is Nigh wrote:@pennylane



It is such a black comedy isn't it?

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  matthew on Wed 18 Jan - 11:58

Goverment ordering a review of 3.5 million pounds !!& how much would it cost to send all those involved back with expences including loss of earnings?...very good point of the extra light in the room,also the point of matthew seeing the twins breathing & not seeing madeleine...madeleines bed was nearest the door & i would think he would have to enter the room to see the twins breathing??



as the door opens from left to right ive always thought madeleine would be the first child you would see




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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Jean-Luc on Wed 18 Jan - 17:12

Does anyone know were the windows in the bedroom sliding windows (as the patio doors) or did they open on a hinge? I cannot see clearly from this photo.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  pennylane on Wed 18 Jan - 17:17

Jean-Luc wrote:Does anyone know were the windows in the bedroom sliding windows (as the patio doors) or did they open on a hinge? I cannot see clearly from this photo.

Sliding windows, like the patio doors.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Jean-Luc on Wed 18 Jan - 17:22

pennylane wrote:
Jean-Luc wrote:Does anyone know were the windows in the bedroom sliding windows (as the patio doors) or did they open on a hinge? I cannot see clearly from this photo.

Sliding windows, like the patio doors.

Than you Pennylane, I have also just seen this with a photo of Paulo Rebelo.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Panda on Wed 18 Jan - 17:29

I remember seeing a photo of Madeleine"s bed and thought it was on the same side as the Window?

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  kathybelle on Wed 18 Jan - 17:57

matthew wrote:Goverment ordering a review of 3.5 million pounds !!& how much would it cost to send all those involved back with expences including loss of earnings?...very good point of the extra light in the room,also the point of matthew seeing the twins breathing & not seeing madeleine...madeleines bed was nearest the door & i would think he would have to enter the room to see the twins breathing??



as the door opens from left to right ive always thought madeleine would be the first child you would see




I remember Kate saying that Cuddle Cat had been placed on a shelf above Madeleine's bed. I have seen different angles of the bedroom that the children slept in and try as I may, I can't see a shelf anywhere in the room, let alone above Madeleine's bed. Incidently Gerry said the soft toy was left on Madeleine's bed after she was taken.

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

Post  Guest on Wed 18 Jan - 18:01

She might be "cowering" somewhere?????????

Why would she be cowering, as opposed to just hiding?

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Re: Those wretched curtains again.

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