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Could there have been an abductor?

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  margaret on Tue 21 Feb - 13:17

kathybelle wrote:
There is no proof Madeleine was abducted and in my opinion, the McCanns should have been made to stay in Portugal, until they could prove she was abducted. If they couldn't prove she was abducted, then they should have been charged with being more involved with Madeleine's disappearance. The McCanns have been allowed to call all the shots in this case and they will keep on calling the shots, until someone grows a backbone and does what should and would have been done, back in 2007, if members of the British and Portuguese Governments, hadn't intervened.


I understand your anger but l'm glad the onus is not on oneself to prove innocence!!

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  AnnaEsse on Tue 21 Feb - 13:18

mossman wrote:Off topic but i did not want to start a new thread in case this has been discussed in detail at another time prior to my joining.

I note another family by the name of Gorod were in the Ocean Club at the same time as the McCanns and live close to and are / were at the time known to Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien. It seems they had hired a car for the duration of their weeks holidays, a grey opel corsa. I have seen it stated that Jane Tanner met with them on the Monday, i think, but I did not check yet to see if JT herself confirmed this.

Then, from the mccannpjfiles.co.uk :


Another witness with the surname da Silva - Maria Manuela Martins da Silva - said was visiting the sister of her boyfriend in another Ocean Club apartment (Block 6, Apartment 5) during the afternoon and evening of 3 May. From the ground floor kitchen window of that apartment, there was a direct view across to the back windows of the apartment occupied by Madeleine McCann [Source: Police Files 02 - Processos Volume II, Pages 469 to 470a].

Unusually, some five days later, Maria was able to recall the exact time she left that apartment - 9.58pm. She says she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time, and she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge. Maria da Silva left with her boyfriend in a green Opel Frontera, parked in the private parking area of Block 6. As they drove away, she recalled seeing a small car, perhaps grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment. By coincidence the route taken by GNR officer, Pedro Miguel Esteves Fernandes and the Search & Rescue dogs in the early hours of 4 May, lost track of Madeleine's scent in the private parking area of Block 6.



So we have a small grey car parked in the car park close to 5a close to 10.00pm on 3rd May and a grey car hired by a family who were known to JT and ROB in the UK and quite possibly met with them on the Monday in PDL.

There was also a reference here in the last few days to the possibility of ROB having been in a car (other than the mccan hired renault).

So there is a possibility at least they could have had access to a car during the holiday.

As I just came across this I found it interesting, my apologies and feel free to delete if this has been discussed before.

I don't recall reading that, mossman. Interesting. Thank you.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  ann_chovey on Tue 21 Feb - 14:03


Thanks for the reminder mossman, I'd clean forgotten that one.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  mossman on Tue 21 Feb - 14:15

This family seem to have been able to keep a very low profile but they did indeed meet JT. From her statement 10th May:-

In the tourist complex last Sunday, 30 April, she net a copule she knew from Exeter, Jim and C. G., with their son of 20 months, B.G. She knew they had travelled on the same day as her, on a different flight. Asked, she relates that they had a hired car, not knowing the brand, model or colour. He (Jim) liked to surf and that was why he had hired the car.

It seems they flew to Faro from Bristol on 28th April.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  margaret on Tue 21 Feb - 14:23

mossman wrote:This family seem to have been able to keep a very low profile but they did indeed meet JT. From her statement 10th May:-

In the tourist complex last Sunday, 30 April, she net a copule she knew from Exeter, Jim and C. G., with their son of 20 months, B.G. She knew they had travelled on the same day as her, on a different flight. Asked, she relates that they had a hired car, not knowing the brand, model or colour. He (Jim) liked to surf and that was why he had hired the car.

It seems they flew to Faro from Bristol on 28th April.

Wonder if it was grey and JT had asked for a favour....

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  tigger on Tue 21 Feb - 14:26

kathybelle wrote:In my opinion Madeleine could never have been abducted, or even walked out of the McCanns unlocked apartment and I'll tell you why. When the police arrived at the McCanns apartment, both of the McCanns were in the apartment along with members of the Tapas group. At least one of the McCanns, plus some of the Tapas group would have been out searching for Madeleine, had she genuinely gone missing. The fact they were busy getting their stories straight, instead of searching for Madeleine, shows that Madeleine was taken out of the apartment, dead or alive, by one of the McCanns, or by someone known to the McCanns with their blessing.

I believe every single one of the Tapas 7 knows what has happened to Madeleine and if she was dead or alive, because even if the McCanns didn't want to search for her, they would have searched for her. All the kids could have been left in one apartment with one of the Tapas group and then the rest of them could have gone to look for Madeleine. The fact they didn't do anything, shows to me that they do know what happened.

I also believe Gordon Brown was involved with this case, before the police arrived at the apartment, because it was less than 24hrs after Madeleine disappeared, when Gerry said he had spoken to Gordon Brown and he had given him his own personal telephone number and told him he could ring him any time day or night.

When the police arrived at the apartment, the McCanns behaviour aroused suspicion in them. The McCanns told the police that Madeleine had disappeared while they were dining in the Tapas Bar and she had been left unsupervised. That was a crime and the crime was made more serious because Madeleine had supposedly disappeared as a result of their neglect.

The police should have arrested the McCanns, especially as they had never looked for Madeleine and lied about the shutter. The police didn't arrest the McCanns and I think that it was because they were told not to. I believe Gordon Brown had already set the wheels in motion that would prevent the McCanns from facing any charges.

I believe the arguido status that was given to the McCanns was nothing more than a paper excercise. An arguido is supposed to have regular contact with the police and limited freedom. The McCanns passports were given back to them and they were given a police escort to the airport and allowed to return home to the UK. The McCanns have also been allowed to call all the shots and anyone who dares speak out against them publicly, is likely to face a lawsuit. Which is what is happening to Goncalo Amaral and Tony Bennett.


That's my girl! At last I can agree with every single word you posted here.
They were secure in their protection, even though they'd completely messed up the fake abduction. The expression containing the words p..up and brewery come to mind.
When Gerry told the family it was a 'disaster', he was talking about the conflicting timelines, the far-too-close Smiths sighting and the unexpected Jeremy Wilkins. On top of that the GNR didn't recognize the freemason's call for help and the shutters refused to cooperate. Not a successful evening.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  chrissie on Tue 21 Feb - 14:28

If I remember correctly, they only came under the spotlight when JG returned the car to the hire company alone at the end of the holiday. The hire company alerted the PJ as there was a baby seat in the car and he was on his own.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  mossman on Tue 21 Feb - 14:41

[/quote] Wonder if it was grey and JT had asked for a favour....[/quote]

Margaret - it was grey When i searched there are some references to it being blue, on different forums that came back through google but below is from the pj files:


Processos Volume 11

Pages 2726 to 2737

Letter 6 August 2007 regarding a diligence re: rental car of James Gorrod, along with copy of
vehicle rental contract

Today and under orders from higher authority, the signatory went to the premises of the SIXT rent-
a-car company in the Faro airport, in order to identify and locate the vehicle that will have been
rented on 28 April 2007 by an individual named James Gorrod.
At the counter of the said rent-a-car [company] it was confirmed that on the referred date, at
20h06, there was delivered to the referenced person [personal details given] an Opel Corsa, colour
grey, licence 75-AG-62.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  ann_chovey on Tue 21 Feb - 14:47

mossman wrote:
Wonder if it was grey and JT had asked for a favour....[/quote]

Margaret - it was grey When i searched there are some references to it being blue, on different forums that came back through google but below is from the pj files:


Processos Volume 11

Pages 2726 to 2737

Letter 6 August 2007 regarding a diligence re: rental car of James Gorrod, along with copy of
vehicle rental contract

Today and under orders from higher authority, the signatory went to the premises of the SIXT rent-
a-car company in the Faro airport, in order to identify and locate the vehicle that will have been
rented on 28 April 2007 by an individual named James Gorrod.
At the counter of the said rent-a-car [company] it was confirmed that on the referred date, at
20h06, there was delivered to the referenced person [personal details given] an Opel Corsa, colour
grey, licence 75-AG-62.[/quote]

(from comments on Joana Morais site) http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/03/news-recap-amaral-mccanns-halligen-and.html

A small grey car was spotted outside the McCann apartment about 10pm by a Maria Da Silva, meeting her boyfriend.
The Garrods' grey Opel Corsa 75 AG 62 hire car was searched by the PJ - but not used to transport M, as it was one of the cars checked out by the dogs. Address used to hire it was a London, not Exeter address.
Charlotte Gorrod owner of apt. C5C in PdL. Hubbard in AptC5E

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  Autumn on Tue 21 Feb - 15:11

AnnaEsse wrote:
mossman wrote:Off topic but i did not want to start a new thread in case this has been discussed in detail at another time prior to my joining.

I note another family by the name of Gorod were in the Ocean Club at the same time as the McCanns and live close to and are / were at the time known to Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien. It seems they had hired a car for the duration of their weeks holidays, a grey opel corsa. I have seen it stated that Jane Tanner met with them on the Monday, i think, but I did not check yet to see if JT herself confirmed this.

Then, from the mccannpjfiles.co.uk :


Another witness with the surname da Silva - Maria Manuela Martins da Silva - said was visiting the sister of her boyfriend in another Ocean Club apartment (Block 6, Apartment 5) during the afternoon and evening of 3 May. From the ground floor kitchen window of that apartment, there was a direct view across to the back windows of the apartment occupied by Madeleine McCann [Source: Police Files 02 - Processos Volume II, Pages 469 to 470a].

Unusually, some five days later, Maria was able to recall the exact time she left that apartment - 9.58pm. She says she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time, and she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge. Maria da Silva left with her boyfriend in a green Opel Frontera, parked in the private parking area of Block 6. As they drove away, she recalled seeing a small car, perhaps grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment. By coincidence the route taken by GNR officer, Pedro Miguel Esteves Fernandes and the Search & Rescue dogs in the early hours of 4 May, lost track of Madeleine's scent in the private parking area of Block 6.



So we have a small grey car parked in the car park close to 5a close to 10.00pm on 3rd May and a grey car hired by a family who were known to JT and ROB in the UK and quite possibly met with them on the Monday in PDL.

There was also a reference here in the last few days to the possibility of ROB having been in a car (other than the mccan hired renault).

So there is a possibility at least they could have had access to a car during the holiday.

As I just came across this I found it interesting, my apologies and feel free to delete if this has been discussed before.

I don't recall reading that, mossman. Interesting. Thank you.

Thanks mossman, haven't come across that before. Did the Gorrods make statements I wonder?

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  mossman on Tue 21 Feb - 15:13

thank you ann_chovey. still interesting that it was included in the car "line up", i suppose.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  Autumn on Tue 21 Feb - 15:21

Kate McCann and the maids evidence.
The maids evidence is important as Kate McCann damn well knows. Many staff members it is true were sacked after this incident ...Maria da Silva will be able to stand in court and announce the McCanns had two cots but in seperate rooms the morning of May 2nd.... the McCanns staged an abduction by moving both cots into the same room for the night of May 3rd.

With this bogus mail and involving the Royal family, were they trying to discredit Maria da Silva ?
Maddie 'kidnapped by maid', says email

By Sadie Gray
Sunday, 30 September 2007
Madeleine McCann may have been kidnapped by a disgruntled maid in revenge for her sacking by the Praia da Luz resort where the three-year-old disappeared 150 days ago, according to a tip-off received by British police.

An anonymous informant named the ex-employee in a detailed email sent to Prince Charles's official website, claiming she acted out of bitterness towards the resort's operator, Mark Warner Ocean Club, said the News of the World.

British police called the email "significant", and said the details they had been able to check had proved to be correct. Now Leicestershire Police are trying to trace the writer, and have passed the information to Portuguese detectives.

The McCanns' spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said they were "encouraged" by the development.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/maddie-kidnapped-by-maid-says-email-404008.html


http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com/2011/05/kate-mccann-and-maid.html

Maria da Silva's sighting of the grey car could be another reason to try and discredit her.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  ann_chovey on Tue 21 Feb - 15:32

mossman wrote:thank you ann_chovey. still interesting that it was included in the car "line up", i suppose.

Yes, it was first 'on' as can be seen in this video along with the other vehicles.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  Autumn on Tue 21 Feb - 15:38

From http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/category/CAR-During-Holiday-1-965944.html

Having gone to the counter of the Easyjet (Portway) airline in Faro airport it was confirmed that the
referenced person arrived in Faro on 28 JULY ??? [April] 2007 at 20h00 on the flight from Bristol,
being accompanied by Charlotte G. and according to the reservations also by a child whose
identity is not known because it is not recorded on the reservation.
The referenced people returned on the flight of 6 May, destination Bristol, and left at 10h25.
The document/receipt relating to both flights were furnished and are attached to this document.


So the Gorrods picked up their rental car on 28th April but were booked in to start their holiday on 30th April.

Where did they stay for 2 days before arriving at the MW Resort?

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  mossman on Tue 21 Feb - 15:49

ann_chovey wrote: Yes, it was first 'on' as can be seen in this video along with the other vehicles.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

If you don't mind my asking, do you know how long scent would remain in a car ? I am aware of the amount of knowledge you have about this case from reading your posts and am taking the easy way out - asking you instead of searching !

I suppose my point is if it did not remain in something like a car for an extended period of time, the cars were examined by the dogs in August, but Madeleine would have been in this car early May. The McCann car is different obviously because they were not in possession of it until later than that.


Autumn, yes this is why I find this family interesting. They travelled on the same date but seem to have taken quite some time to arrive in PDL but as yet i have not found it documented that this was questioned. They also met with at least Tanner and O'Brien early on in the holiday. They had access to a car during that time, a car that now i find quite evidently was of interest to the police given that it appeared in the sniffer dog line up. Yet there appears to be very very little mention of them anywhere, let alone statements. I happened across them quite by accident this morning and when it was clear they had a grey car something clicke about what I had read some time ago about one being in the car park.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  Autumn on Tue 21 Feb - 16:06

mossman wrote:
ann_chovey wrote: Yes, it was first 'on' as can be seen in this video along with the other vehicles.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

If you don't mind my asking, do you know how long scent would remain in a car ? I am aware of the amount of knowledge you have about this case from reading your posts and am taking the easy way out - asking you instead of searching !

I suppose my point is if it did not remain in something like a car for an extended period of time, the cars were examined by the dogs in August, but Madeleine would have been in this car early May. The McCann car is different obviously because they were not in possession of it until later than that.


Autumn, yes this is why I find this family interesting. They travelled on the same date but seem to have taken quite some time to arrive in PDL but as yet i have not found it documented that this was questioned. They also met with at least Tanner and O'Brien early on in the holiday. They had access to a car during that time, a car that now i find quite evidently was of interest to the police given that it appeared in the sniffer dog line up. Yet there appears to be very very little mention of them anywhere, let alone statements. I happened across them quite by accident this morning and when it was clear they had a grey car something clicke about what I had read some time ago about one being in the car park.

Hi mossman according to info on the Gorrod car its described as blue in the mccannfiles but grey in the PJ files.

As you say there appears to be very little about them. A couple of years ago on JH Forum I was looking for info about them but hardly anything to be found. What little I did come across was mainly on Hideho's excellent site which has a lot of early stuff which has now gone. As you say mossman, James and Charlotte Gorrod are a couple of interest and have started a thread to see what else we can gather about them and their visit to PDL.


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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  ann_chovey on Tue 21 Feb - 16:29

mossman wrote:
ann_chovey wrote: Yes, it was first 'on' as can be seen in this video along with the other vehicles.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

If you don't mind my asking, do you know how long scent would remain in a car ? I am aware of the amount of knowledge you have about this case from reading your posts and am taking the easy way out - asking you instead of searching !

I suppose my point is if it did not remain in something like a car for an extended period of time, the cars were examined by the dogs in August, but Madeleine would have been in this car early May. The McCann car is different obviously because they were not in possession of it until later than that.


Autumn, yes this is why I find this family interesting. They travelled on the same date but seem to have taken quite some time to arrive in PDL but as yet i have not found it documented that this was questioned. They also met with at least Tanner and O'Brien early on in the holiday. They had access to a car during that time, a car that now i find quite evidently was of interest to the police given that it appeared in the sniffer dog line up. Yet there appears to be very very little mention of them anywhere, let alone statements. I happened across them quite by accident this morning and when it was clear they had a grey car something clicke about what I had read some time ago about one being in the car park.

Hi mossman, I'm no expert but this case has always interested me as we were living in Ireland at the time. Attracta was killed in December, the dogs sniffed late February.

http://www.martinharran.com/openstate.htm

On February 20, 2004, police employed the use of the Victim Recovery Unit dogs from England, which were highly trained to detect and alert handlers to the presence of human remains. A video without sound was shown in the court showing a Springer Spaniel dog examining two cars and a small van before being taken to the Lantra that had been driven by Hamilton and subsequently burned out, allegedly maliciously.

The video clearly showed the spaniel examining the other vehicles without reacting, and as soon as it entered the Lantra it began barking and refused to get out. Its search of the vehicle focused on the front passenger and rear seats.

Further forensic examination was carried out in the rear and passenger compartments of the vehicle and blood was detected from material taken from the car for examination. A car mat from the rear of the car was also shown to contain blood, and because of that, the investigation focused on Hamilton, Mr Mooney said, which included a comprehensive search of the property at Concess Road and in particular the sites of fires in the garden.


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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  kathybelle on Tue 21 Feb - 18:20

Panda wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
Panda wrote:Morning kathybelle, not sure whether your interpretation of "arguido" is correct. The status is given if a person refuses to answer questions on the grounds it would incriminate her/him. At this stage the McCanns were merely being interviewed.

Good morning Panda. When the McCanns were made arguidos, I didn't know what the status meant, so I looked it up on the internet. I checked again just before I made the post and it is still as it was back in 2007. I was lead to believe that a person is made an arguido, because they are suspected of being involved in a crime and charges are likely to follow. I also read that they have to attend a police station at a time specified by the police and they have their movements restricted. I also read that a person can ask for arguido status, because it gives them the right to remain silent and the right to have a lawyer present, when they are questioned.

Robert Murat's lawyer, said Mr Murat asked for arguido status, because more than once, he was taken in for questioning as a witness and couldn't have a lawyer present. After extensive searches at the home and garden of Mr Murat's mother and a thorough investigation of Mr Murat by the police, the PJ were satisfied he had no involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine. Mr Murat said he expected to be released from the status and when he wasn't, he said he wished he had never asked for the status in the first place.

The difference between the behaviour of Robert Murat, when he was made an arguido and the McCanns when they were made arguido, is Robert Murat answered every question that was put to him and he complied with the other terms of the arguido status. The McCanns on the other hand left the country the day after they were made arguidos, but as I said previously, I believe the arguido status issued on the McCanns, was nothing more than a paper excercise.

There has got to be a reason why the McCanns have been treated with kid gloves since Madeleine disappeared. If they were speaking the truth, when they said they left their children unsupervised, each time they went out, they committed a crime and the crime was made worse because Madeleine disappeared. As I said previously, the police should have arrested them once they admitted what they did, but for reasons best known to the police, they didn't arrest them.

There is no proof Madeleine was abducted and in my opinion, the McCanns should have been made to stay in Portugal, until they could prove she was abducted. If they couldn't prove she was abducted, then they should have been charged with being more involved with Madeleine's disappearance. The McCanns have been allowed to call all the shots in this case and they will keep on calling the shots, until someone grows a backbone and does what should and would have been done, back in 2007, if members of the British and Portuguese Governments, hadn't intervened.


Afternoon kathybelle,

I seem to remember reading that Kate's Lawyer was with her when she was being interviewed and it was on his advice that she opted for arguido status.

I must admit, after 11 hrs at the Police Station and having to reply to some inane questions I can underatand why Kate rebelled. I'm sure one of our Portugese Members can translate "arguido" properly.

Hi Panda

Regarding the questions Kate was asked, some of them may have been inane to some people, but in the eyes of the PJ, they were relevant to the investigation. Kate should have answered all of them, especially when she was told that by refusing to answer them, she was hindering the investigation.

As for Kate rebelling, because she was questioned for 11hrs, my heart bleeds for her (NOT). My heart truly bleeds for Madeleine, who will have suffered mentally and probably physically, before and if she was alive, after she was removed from apartment 5a.

You may or may not be right when you say that Kate opted for arguido status, but whether she did or didn't, doesn't alter the fact that after Kate and Gerry were made arguidos, they were given back their passports, given permission to leave Portugal and given a police escort to the Algarve airport, so they could catch a flight to the UK. I'll always believe, that the arguido status that was given to the McCanns, was only a paper excercise.

I believe the PJ wanted to make the McCanns arguidos and wanted them to remain in Portugal, while they prepared charges against them, but as Goncalo Amaral said, they were prevented from doing so, because of intervention by the British Government.




Last edited by kathybelle on Tue 21 Feb - 18:43; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  mossman on Tue 21 Feb - 18:23

[quote="ann_chovey"]

Hi mossman, I'm no expert but this case has always interested me as we were living in Ireland at the time. Attracta was killed in December, the dogs sniffed late February./quote]


Thank you

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  dazedandconfused on Tue 21 Feb - 18:47

kathybelle wrote:
Panda wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
Panda wrote:Morning kathybelle, not sure whether your interpretation of "arguido" is correct. The status is given if a person refuses to answer questions on the grounds it would incriminate her/him. At this stage the McCanns were merely being interviewed.

Good morning Panda. When the McCanns were made arguidos, I didn't know what the status meant, so I looked it up on the internet. I checked again just before I made the post and it is still as it was back in 2007. I was lead to believe that a person is made an arguido, because they are suspected of being involved in a crime and charges are likely to follow. I also read that they have to attend a police station at a time specified by the police and they have their movements restricted. I also read that a person can ask for arguido status, because it gives them the right to remain silent and the right to have a lawyer present, when they are questioned.

Robert Murat's lawyer, said Mr Murat asked for arguido status, because more than once, he was taken in for questioning as a witness and couldn't have a lawyer present. After extensive searches at the home and garden of Mr Murat's mother and a thorough investigation of Mr Murat by the police, the PJ were satisfied he had no involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine. Mr Murat said he expected to be released from the status and when he wasn't, he said he wished he had never asked for the status in the first place.

The difference between the behaviour of Robert Murat, when he was made an arguido and the McCanns when they were made arguido, is Robert Murat answered every question that was put to him and he complied with the other terms of the arguido status. The McCanns on the other hand left the country the day after they were made arguidos, but as I said previously, I believe the arguido status issued on the McCanns, was nothing more than a paper excercise.

There has got to be a reason why the McCanns have been treated with kid gloves since Madeleine disappeared. If they were speaking the truth, when they said they left their children unsupervised, each time they went out, they committed a crime and the crime was made worse because Madeleine disappeared. As I said previously, the police should have arrested them once they admitted what they did, but for reasons best known to the police, they didn't arrest them.

There is no proof Madeleine was abducted and in my opinion, the McCanns should have been made to stay in Portugal, until they could prove she was abducted. If they couldn't prove she was abducted, then they should have been charged with being more involved with Madeleine's disappearance. The McCanns have been allowed to call all the shots in this case and they will keep on calling the shots, until someone grows a backbone and does what should and would have been done, back in 2007, if members of the British and Portuguese Governments, hadn't intervened.


Afternoon kathybelle,

I seem to remember reading that Kate's Lawyer was with her when she was being interviewed and it was on his advice that she opted for arguido status.

I must admit, after 11 hrs at the Police Station and having to reply to some inane questions I can underatand why Kate rebelled. I'm sure one of our Portugese Members can translate "arguido" properly.

Hi Panda

Regarding the questions Kate was asked, some of them may have been inane to some people, but in the eyes of the PJ, they were relevant to the investigation. Kate should have answered all of them, especially when she was told that by refusing to answer them, she was hindering the investigation.

As for Kate rebelling, because she was questioned for 11hrs, my heart bleeds for her (NOT). My heart truly bleeds for Madeleine, who will have suffered mentally and probably physically, before and if she was alive, after she was removed from apartment 5a.

You may or may not be right when you say that Kate opted for arguido status, but whether she did or didn't, doesn't alter the fact that after Kate and Gerry were made arguidos, they were given back their passports, given permission to leave Portugal and given a police escort to the Algarve airport, so they could catch a flight to the UK. I'll always believe, that the arguido status that was given to the McCanns, was only a paper excercise.

I believe the PJ wanted to make the McCanns arguidos and wanted them to remain in Portugal, while they prepared charges against them, but as Goncalo Amaral said, they were prevented from doing so, because of intervention by the British Government.



I don't think the questions she refused to answer were inane and I would have thought that she would be more than willing to do anything to assist the investigation rather than "rebelling" and sending text messages.

dazedandconfused
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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  Claudia79 on Tue 21 Feb - 19:54

Kate McCann was not questioned for 11 hours. Not even close. A huge amount of that time was due to the need for translators. As for the 'inane' questions, it is not up to suspects to decide which questions are asked by the Police.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  MaryB on Tue 21 Feb - 20:12

Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  T4two on Tue 21 Feb - 21:32

MaryB wrote:Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

So what conclusions do you draw from the fact that nearly 5 years on one could have expected the abductor to have struck again, but it hasn't happened. Luck, or perhaps there just isn't an abductor 'out there' as they say, waiting to strike again?

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  Autumn on Wed 22 Feb - 0:07

Panda wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
Panda wrote:Morning kathybelle, not sure whether your interpretation of "arguido" is correct. The status is given if a person refuses to answer questions on the grounds it would incriminate her/him. At this stage the McCanns were merely being interviewed.

Good morning Panda. When the McCanns were made arguidos, I didn't know what the status meant, so I looked it up on the internet. I checked again just before I made the post and it is still as it was back in 2007. I was lead to believe that a person is made an arguido, because they are suspected of being involved in a crime and charges are likely to follow. I also read that they have to attend a police station at a time specified by the police and they have their movements restricted. I also read that a person can ask for arguido status, because it gives them the right to remain silent and the right to have a lawyer present, when they are questioned.

Robert Murat's lawyer, said Mr Murat asked for arguido status, because more than once, he was taken in for questioning as a witness and couldn't have a lawyer present. After extensive searches at the home and garden of Mr Murat's mother and a thorough investigation of Mr Murat by the police, the PJ were satisfied he had no involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine. Mr Murat said he expected to be released from the status and when he wasn't, he said he wished he had never asked for the status in the first place.

The difference between the behaviour of Robert Murat, when he was made an arguido and the McCanns when they were made arguido, is Robert Murat answered every question that was put to him and he complied with the other terms of the arguido status. The McCanns on the other hand left the country the day after they were made arguidos, but as I said previously, I believe the arguido status issued on the McCanns, was nothing more than a paper excercise.

There has got to be a reason why the McCanns have been treated with kid gloves since Madeleine disappeared. If they were speaking the truth, when they said they left their children unsupervised, each time they went out, they committed a crime and the crime was made worse because Madeleine disappeared. As I said previously, the police should have arrested them once they admitted what they did, but for reasons best known to the police, they didn't arrest them.

There is no proof Madeleine was abducted and in my opinion, the McCanns should have been made to stay in Portugal, until they could prove she was abducted. If they couldn't prove she was abducted, then they should have been charged with being more involved with Madeleine's disappearance. The McCanns have been allowed to call all the shots in this case and they will keep on calling the shots, until someone grows a backbone and does what should and would have been done, back in 2007, if members of the British and Portuguese Governments, hadn't intervened.


Afternoon kathybelle,

I seem to remember reading that Kate's Lawyer was with her when she was being interviewed and it was on his advice that she opted for arguido status.

I must admit, after 11 hrs at the Police Station and having to reply to some inane questions I can underatand why Kate rebelled. I'm sure one of our Portugese Members can translate "arguido" properly.


Yes I recall that, like a pair of rebellious schoolgirls, Justine Mguiness claimed that both she and Kate whiled away the hours giggling and texting to people outside the police station. Shame they weren't given lines to write out - 'I must take this seriously and co-operate with the police in finding Madeleine'.

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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Post  kathybelle on Wed 22 Feb - 0:47

MaryB wrote:Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

There is no way on God's earth that Madeleine was abducted and only the brainwashed will believe she was. The McCanns were the ones who started this fairy tale and that was to cover their tracks.

Let's start with the lies the McCanns have told to save their own skins. After the McCanns told the police Madeleine had been abducted, the police asked them how the abductor entered the apartment. The McCanns said the apartment was locked and the only way the abductor could have entered and exited the apartment, was through the shutter, which had been jemmied by the abductor. The shutter was examined by a police officer and a Warner official and found to be intact. The McCanns then admitted they left their apartment unlocked. In the space of a few minutes, the McCanns had told 3 lies.

The McCanns and their friends, didn't bother looking for Madeleine, instead they trampled all over what was a crime scene and used the pages of Madeleine's book, to get their stories straight. Kate had told the police the shutter was closed when she and her husband went out, but open when she returned to check on the children. The shutter was checked for fingerprints, but the only fingerprints on the shutter, belonged to Kate McCann. There was enough evidence in the apartment to show Madeleine was harmed. An attempt had been made to clean the carpets and walls, but unfortunately whoever cleaned the carpet and walls, didn't do a good job, because residue was still there. Also there was blood that came from Madeleine, behind the sofa. The curtains had also been washed.

Then there was the cadaver scent on Kate McCanns clothing and two items of Madeleine's clothing. Cuddle Cat also had cadaver scent on him. Cat. Kate said the cadaver scent on her clothing was from 6 deaths she attended, in the 1½ days she worked before she went on holiday. She said the soft toy had cadaver scent on it, because she always took it to work with her. Jon Corner bought Cuddle cat for Madeleine's birthday and he gave her the soft toy, just before they left for PDL, because he wasn't going to see her on her birthday. I never saw any explanation for the cadaver scent on Madeleine's clothing. Incidently there was no cadaver scent on Gerry's clothing or Sean and Amalie's clothing.

Sorry Mary B. you really do need to read the files and scour the internet for transcripts of the McCanns interviews or better still, go to "You Tube" and listen to the McCanns interviews. Once you have done this, you will soon see why the McCanns are more involved with Madeleine's disappearance than neglect and you will soon see that the abduction story is nothing but a fairy tale.


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Re: Could there have been an abductor?

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