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Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

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Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  Loopdaloop on Sun 18 Mar - 12:58



An angel's face is still, goes the saying, because there are no lies inside. Now scientists have revealed there is scientific truth behind the notion.

Click HERE to view 'face-off: The The tell-tale signs on killer Tracie Andrews’ face' graphic

Researchers have established for the first time that five tell-tale facial muscle groups, including those activated by grief, behave differently in people who are lying.

Psychologists examined the facial movements of 52 people who had appeared on television in a number of countries, including the UK, to appeal for the return of someone who was missing. In half the cases analysed they were lying, and were later convicted of murder. The researchers found that the stress of dealing with so-called high-stakes lies meant they were unable to control some muscle movements.

The videos of 26 liars and 26 genuine people who made televised pleas for the safe return or information leading to an arrest in the murder of their relative were gathered from news agencies in Australia, Canada, the UK and the US. The liars had all been convicted eventually on overwhelming physical evidence, including DNA.

The researchers, from the University of British Columbia, analysed more than 20,000 frames of the appearances and found marked differences between the two groups.

They homed in on when the interviewee made a direct appeal to the (supposed) perpetrator to release the missing person; to the missing person to make contact, or to the public for information. Then they focused on muscles associated with sadness, happiness and surprise – the frontalis, corrugator supercilii, orbicularis oculi, zygomatic major and depressor anguli oris.

Their results showed that the "grief" muscles – the corrugator supercilii and depressor anguli oris – were more often contracted in the faces of people who were genuine. The liars were more likely to show subtle contraction of the zygomatic major – masking smiles – and full contraction of the frontalis, frowning – in a sign of failed attempts to appear sad.

In cases in the UK include Tracie Andrews, above, 27, who stabbed her fiancé, Lee Harvey, to death during an argument in their car near Alvechurch, Worcester in 1996. She subsequently appeared in a televised press conference, with Harvey's mother, in which she claimed he was killed by a man in a road-rage attack. Andrews was sentenced to life imprisonment at Birmingham Crown Court in July 1997.

John Tanner, Paul Dyson, Fadi Nasri and Gordon Wardell all made similar appeals, lying to the cameras after killing their partners or having them killed. They were all found subsequently found guilty and jailed.

The study – "Darwin the detective: Observable facial muscle contractions reveal emotional high-stakes lies" – concludes that there is an evolutionary component to lying, and people lie on average twice a day. "While interpersonal deception often is highly successful, signs of covert emotional states are communicated clearly to the informed observer," the researchers said. "The present study investigated, for the first time, the action of specific facial muscles speculated to reveal falsified sadness on the faces of individuals deceptively pleading for the return of a missing relative who they recently had murdered.''

In its paper, published last week, the team concluded: "Our findings support the notion that the human face is indelibly stamped with the tale of our humble origin and attempts to mask our emotions are likely to fail when engaging in a consequential act of deception.''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/your-face-gives-the-game-away-when-you-lie-says-study-7576428.html

The Full study is on here : --> http://www.ehbonline.org/ if anyone has access.

My thoughts imediately turn to the Mccann's and what they made of them. The lead author is on twitter; Does anyone who is on there want to message her and ask her thoughts on the Mccann's? Perhaps invite her to give her opinion anonymously on here?
https://twitter.com/#!/leannetenbrinke


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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  T4two on Sun 18 Mar - 13:50

Interesting readers' comments:

Dorothy Gale

Have they analysed the footage of Kate McCann making her appeal?

Like
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12 hours ago

derekcolman

I doubt if the Portuguese police have, but I'm pretty sure the British cops now investigating the case would have done so.

Oh dear! Obviously a couple of those 'Internet nutters'

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  Loopdaloop on Sun 18 Mar - 15:02

T4two wrote:Interesting readers' comments:

Dorothy Gale

Have they analysed the footage of Kate McCann making her appeal?

Like
Reply

12 hours ago

derekcolman

I doubt if the Portuguese police have, but I'm pretty sure the British cops now investigating the case would have done so.

Oh dear! Obviously a couple of those 'Internet nutters'

I like how other peoples first thoughts are how this connects to the Mccann's !!

They had "26 liars and 26 genuine people" The questions is: Did they include the Mccann's? IF not why not...
Did they have problem A> morally and B> due to carter ruck deciding which section to put them in!

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  Loopdaloop on Sun 18 Mar - 15:09

I registered and added my piece.
I wonder if it will stay there?


Loopdaloop
The Study looked at 26 'Genuine' people and 26 'liars' : They use High Profile people including people from the UK.

The question is did they use the Mccann's which are definitely high profile. If they did, which category did they put them in? or if they didn't...

Why not.... ? as there is 'no evidence to suggest they have anything to do with the disappearance of their daughter' in which case they should be in the 'genuine' side of the study? If they're not... is this suggestive of the researchers making a value judgement of them?

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  Chris on Sun 18 Mar - 15:44

Loopdaloop wrote:
T4two wrote:Interesting readers' comments:

Dorothy Gale

Have they analysed the footage of Kate McCann making her appeal?

Like
Reply

12 hours ago

derekcolman

I doubt if the Portuguese police have, but I'm pretty sure the British cops now investigating the case would have done so.

Oh dear! Obviously a couple of those 'Internet nutters'

I like how other peoples first thoughts are how this connects to the Mccann's !!

They had "26 liars and 26 genuine people" The questions is: Did they include the Mccann's? IF not why not...
Did they have problem A> morally and B> due to carter ruck deciding which section to put them in!


I doubt they included the Ms in their test data. If you are looking for differences you would use subjects who have been proven to be lying and those shown to be truthful.

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  Loopdaloop on Sun 18 Mar - 15:49

Chris wrote:
I doubt they included the Ms in their test data. If you are looking for differences you would use subjects who have been proven to be lying and those shown to be truthful.

However, from the Mccann's point of view they would consider themselves to be 'vindicated' and the whole world should consider them to be 'genuine'.
Yet they are not included. Perhaps they should be asking why.....

I think their non inclusion is positive and shows that the researchers evidently didn't feel the same way as the mccanns and is indicative of a wider reflection of public and professional feelings towards them!

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  cherry1 on Sun 18 Mar - 17:48

The police will no doubt be consulting body language experts as well as handwriting experts imo

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  T4two on Sun 18 Mar - 17:49

Loopdaloop wrote:
Chris wrote:
I doubt they included the Ms in their test data. If you are looking for differences you would use subjects who have been proven to be lying and those shown to be truthful.

However, from the Mccann's point of view they would consider themselves to be 'vindicated' and the whole world should consider them to be 'genuine'.
Yet they are not included. Perhaps they should be asking why.....

I think their non inclusion is positive and shows that the researchers evidently didn't feel the same way as the mccanns and is indicative of a wider reflection of public and professional feelings towards them!

Yes, I agree with your assessment. Of course the researchers didn't include the McCanns as perfect examples of people telling the truth - how could they?

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  Chris on Sun 18 Mar - 18:36

Loopdaloop wrote:
Chris wrote:
I doubt they included the Ms in their test data. If you are looking for differences you would use subjects who have been proven to be lying and those shown to be truthful.

However, from the Mccann's point of view they would consider themselves to be 'vindicated' and the whole world should consider them to be 'genuine'.
Yet they are not included. Perhaps they should be asking why.....

I think their non inclusion is positive and shows that the researchers evidently didn't feel the same way as the mccanns and is indicative of a wider reflection of public and professional feelings towards them!

My point was that you wouldn't include any person unless lies or otherwise were beyond dispute. What would be interesting is if they applied their findings to cases less than clear cut - or one anyway.

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  MaryB on Sun 18 Mar - 19:58

There's an article about it in the Mail on line. Doesn't that picture of John Tanner remind you of a certain someone.

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 18 Mar - 20:11

MaryB wrote:There's an article about it in the Mail on line. Doesn't that picture of John Tanner remind you of a certain someone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116664/Why-face-lie-The-uncontrolable-tell-tale-signs-deceit-high-stakes-deceptions.html

In those photos, Tracie Andrews just looks stroppy, as though she's about to headbutt somebody!

I wonder about the timing of such articles. Coincidence maybe or maybe letting some folks know that videos might be being studied!

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  flower on Sun 18 Mar - 20:38

AnnaEsse wrote:
MaryB wrote:There's an article about it in the Mail on line. Doesn't that picture of John Tanner remind you of a certain someone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116664/Why-face-lie-The-uncontrolable-tell-tale-signs-deceit-high-stakes-deceptions.html

In those photos, Tracie Andrews just looks stroppy, as though she's about to headbutt somebody!

I wonder about the timing of such articles. Coincidence maybe or maybe letting some folks know that videos might be being studied!

Well thought of AnnaEsse - you may have something there! Let's put it this way - if I was involved I would be sick to the stomach at these sort of reports!!

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 18 Mar - 20:51

flower wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
MaryB wrote:There's an article about it in the Mail on line. Doesn't that picture of John Tanner remind you of a certain someone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116664/Why-face-lie-The-uncontrolable-tell-tale-signs-deceit-high-stakes-deceptions.html

In those photos, Tracie Andrews just looks stroppy, as though she's about to headbutt somebody!

I wonder about the timing of such articles. Coincidence maybe or maybe letting some folks know that videos might be being studied!

Well thought of AnnaEsse - you may have something there! Let's put it this way - if I was involved I would be sick to the stomach at these sort of reports!!

There are plenty of videos to analyse!

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  Panda on Mon 19 Mar - 7:54


The McCanns refused to take a lie detector test....although Sousa, the Detective employed by CBS to go the PDL and find out what was happening said he didn't think lie detectors were 100% conclusive.

This was amongst the comments, I wonderied if it was our Stevo who wrote the book 'Faked Abduction'

I have to take up issue with the topic headline....Why your face can't lie" I remember the likes of Tony with smug grin on face walking on stage to the music with words THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER. I remember the likes of DAVE before the last election saying he would give us a referendum on EU stitch up the people treaty. The words swivel eyed springs to mind. .... and yes a face can lie to the gullible.
- Stevo, London uk, 18/3/2012 17:10
Click to rate Rating 72 Report


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116664/Why-face-lie-The-uncontrolable-tell-tale-signs-deceit-high-stakes-deceptions.html#ixzz1pXxshRE6

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 19 Mar - 7:56

Panda wrote:
The McCanns refused to take a lie detector test....although Sousa, the Detective employed by CBS to go the PDL and find out what was happening said he didn't think lie detectors were 100% conclusive.

This was amongst the comments, I wonderied if it was our Stevo who wrote the book 'Faked Abduction'

I have to take up issue with the topic headline....Why your face can't lie" I remember the likes of Tony with smug grin on face walking on stage to the music with words THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER. I remember the likes of DAVE before the last election saying he would give us a referendum on EU stitch up the people treaty. The words swivel eyed springs to mind. .... and yes a face can lie to the gullible.
- Stevo, London uk, 18/3/2012 17:10
Click to rate Rating 72 Report


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116664/Why-face-lie-The-uncontrolable-tell-tale-signs-deceit-high-stakes-deceptions.html#ixzz1pXxshRE6

Doesn't the report on lying faces suggest that the faces of liars show their smile muscles engaged most of the time?

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  marxman on Mon 19 Mar - 8:39

Just out of interest, and as a dog lover.(own 3 dogs)
It has been well documented and researched that
our canine chums have been reading faces forever!
So I would suggest that there is very credible evidence
that your face maybe a window to your soul.
However, I would also suspect that Gerry would deem
this also 'unreliable'.
http://mia-carter.suite101.com/study-says-dogs-detect-emotions-on-human-faces-a75900

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  Estelle on Mon 19 Mar - 9:23

The saying is that "the eyes are the windows to the soul."

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

Post  Panda on Mon 19 Mar - 9:57

AnnaEsse wrote:
Panda wrote:
The McCanns refused to take a lie detector test....although Sousa, the Detective employed by CBS to go the PDL and find out what was happening said he didn't think lie detectors were 100% conclusive.

This was amongst the comments, I wonderied if it was our Stevo who wrote the book 'Faked Abduction'

I have to take up issue with the topic headline....Why your face can't lie" I remember the likes of Tony with smug grin on face walking on stage to the music with words THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER. I remember the likes of DAVE before the last election saying he would give us a referendum on EU stitch up the people treaty. The words swivel eyed springs to mind. .... and yes a face can lie to the gullible.
- Stevo, London uk, 18/3/2012 17:10
Click to rate Rating 72 Report


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116664/Why-face-lie-The-uncontrolable-tell-tale-signs-deceit-high-stakes-deceptions.html#ixzz1pXxshRE6

Doesn't the report on lying faces suggest that the faces of liars show their smile muscles engaged most of the time?

Like the rictus grin Gerry had when uestioned by Jeremy Paxman. Wasn't the ear tuggingalso considered a sign of lying.?

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Re: Darwin the Detective "How Face Muscles reveal High Stake Lies"

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