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BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Panda on Sat 21 Apr - 0:34

cherry1 wrote:Very true Marxman, another example here.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1236642/Father-guilty-murdering-daughter-15-honour-killing.html


tragic report of a father who murdered his young daughter in an honour killing, he was convicted
of murder and the body has never been found.


the father got life.

That poor girl would have still been alive if the Police had done their job. after police repeatedly ignored her pleas for help

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1236642/Father-guilty-murdering-daughter-15-honour-killing.html#ixzz1scswyYye



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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  maive on Sat 21 Apr - 0:36

More info on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_conviction_without_a_body

There have been over 350 murder trials in the United States where the body has not been found.

More recent cases

More recently, absence of a body has been less of an obstacle to conviction for murder. For example, circumstantial evidence was originally deemed sufficient in the Australian "Dingo baby case", and in others such as Bradley John Murdoch and the murder of Thomas and Jackie Hawks. In the 2002 murder of Danielle Jones, the required circumstantial evidence was provided by forensic analysis of text messages sent by the accused.

In the Australian no-body murder of Keith William Allan evidence from forensic accountants established a motive for his murder. The chance police finding of one perpetrator driving Allan's car and the conduct of all perpetrators, in particular mobile telephone records, were also important factors in their conviction.[10]

The murder of Arlene Fraser is another such recent case, although the conviction of Nat Fraser was subsequently quashed in Fraser v HM Advocate.

However, the possibility of the supposed victim turning up alive remains. In 2003, Leonard Fraser, having allegedly confessed to the murder of teenager Natasha Ryan, was on trial for this, and other murders, when she reappeared after having been missing for four years.[11]

In 2012 in Scotland David Gilroy was convicted of the murder of Suzanne Pilley without a body.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Panda on Sat 21 Apr - 0:47



Who doesn't know about the Dingo Baby case, it had as much publicity as the Madeleine case around the World. It was only after the Mother had
served 4 years in Jail and her marriage had broken down that the baby's blood stained matinee jacket was found. The Mother went to Court to clear her name.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  maive on Sat 21 Apr - 0:55


Indeed Panda, I remember that case, especially the movie about that.. I was very young when I saw that but I have never forgotten the case..

More info on Fox: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,438661,00.html


Notable cases where the prosecution was able to get a conviction despite the homicide victim's body never being recovered:


覧覧

In the 1950s, West Palm Beach municipal Judge Joe Peel had earned a reputation for straddling both sides of the law. When Senior Circuit Judge Chillingworth, his superior and a pillar of the West Palm Beach community, disciplined him for representing both the husband and wife in a divorce, Peel hired a World War II veteran and moonshiner to kill Chillingworth. On June 15, 1955, Floyd "Lucky" Holzapfel and George David, bootleggers who relied on Peel for protection, abducted Chillingworth and his wife Marjorie, took them out into the ocean, killed them and dumped the bodies. Evidence at the Chillingworth house quickly ruled out robbery as a motive and investigators were stumped. But four years later, Holzapfel mentioned his role to a friend, who turned him in. Lincoln and Holzapfel were granted immunity in return for their testimony. Peel was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. Experts regard it as the first time a conviction was achieved without a body.


More recent cases:


An Alva, Okla., jury deliberated two hours in September 2007 before convicting Katherine Rutan in the murder of her 6-year-old son, Logan Tucker. Prosecutors said Rutan killed her son on June 23, 2002, so she could be with her boyfriend. Key evidence included a boyfriend who testified that she told him she wished she could kill her children and get away with it. Rulan's other son, Justin, told the jury that his mother took his brother into the woods and returned without him. She was sentenced to life in prison.

覧覧

Nina Reiser, wife of Linux software designer Hans Reiser, disappeared in September 2006 in Oakland, Calif. Nina, a Russian native, married Reiser in 1998 and filed for divorce a year later. The divorce was still pending when she disappeared, though she had already gained custody of the couple's two children. Hans Reiser claimed his wife had abandoned him and the children, but prosecutors said he had "motive coming out of his ears," including large child support payments and evidence Nina had an affair with his best friend. Reiser rejected a three-year plea deal to voluntary manslaughter, but four months after being convicted of first-degree murder last April he agreed to lead investigators to his wife's body in return for a lesser sentence. He is serving a 15-year-to-life sentence for second-degree murder.

覧覧

Tom Capano, a wealthy lawyer from a prominent Delaware family, immediately became a suspect when one of his mistresses, Anne Marie Fahey, went missing in 1996 shortly after she broke off their affair. But without a body, prosecutors were stymied until they successfully pressured Capano's younger brother to admit that he helped dump Fahey's body at sea after she had been fatally shot. Capano, who claimed the shooting was an accident, was convicted of murder in 1999 and is serving a life sentence.


覧覧

After Jami Shearer told her abusive husband, Steven, she was leaving him in September 1990, she disappeared. Steven, who had accused her of cheating on him with his friend, had told her he was going to kill her and had remarked that an area near their Seattle home was "a dumping ground for missing persons," friends later testified. Incidents of abusive behavior toward her were also document and records showed that Steven Shearer had also been actively using a dating service in the months before his wife's disappearance. His sister also testified that Steven Shearer had told her he had done something very bad. Police charged him with first-degree murder and, though prosecutors lacked a murder weapon or eyewitnesses, he was convicted nearly 10 years later and sentenced to 60 years in prison


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,438661,00.html#ixzz1sczKh3RL

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Panda on Sat 21 Apr - 1:25



Crikey maive, your'e a walking encyclopedia The dingo baby and JonBenet cases are the only two I remember.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  matthew on Sat 21 Apr - 1:52

Badboy wrote:
Not Born Yesterday wrote:Has there ever been a case where someone has been convicted without a body being found and then at a later date the supposed victim turns up?
THERE WAS A CASE IN CHARLES II TIME.
SOMEONE WAS HANGED,THE VICTIM TURNED UP LATER,SAID HE HAD BEEN SOLD INTO SLAVERY?

So quite recent then

A spokesman for the Mccanns said they were encouraged by this miscarriage of justice

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  mossman on Sat 21 Apr - 8:52

Did or do the portugese ever want to charge them with murder though ?

A thought struck me the other day. If Madeleine has died as a result of a fall, an accident, albeit an avoidable one, what official charges would there be ?

If it were a charge of let us say abandonment and concealing a body - is there a limitation on the time charges such as this can be brought ?

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  pennylane on Sat 21 Apr - 9:06

mossman wrote:Did or do the portugese ever want to charge them with murder though ?

A thought struck me the other day. If Madeleine has died as a result of a fall, an accident, albeit an avoidable one, what official charges would there be ?

If it were a charge of let us say abandonment and concealing a body - is there a limitation on the time charges such as this can be brought ?

I have wondered this too. I tried checking around some time ago to see if there was a limitation on 'neglect/abandonment' charges, because I was suspicious that TM were perhaps prolonging things with Dr Amaral, and their request for the review for this reason.... but I couldn't find a satisfactory answer.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 21 Apr - 9:12

Badboy wrote:
Not Born Yesterday wrote:Has there ever been a case where someone has been convicted without a body being found and then at a later date the supposed victim turns up?
THERE WAS A CASE IN CHARLES II TIME.
SOMEONE WAS HANGED,THE VICTIM TURNED UP LATER,SAID HE HAD BEEN SOLD INTO SLAVERY?

I think there is a more recent one in the Dr Crippen case. The body found in the cellar, which was said to be Crippen's wife, is now thought to have been male. He said his wife had gone to the US and there appears to be good evidence that she had.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  mariang on Sat 21 Apr - 9:39

No english boy of 18 would use the word 'drifter' - they would use the term tramp...... In my opinion the word 'drifter' is american!

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Oldartform on Sat 21 Apr - 10:06

mariang wrote:No english boy of 18 would use the word 'drifter' - they would use the term tramp...... In my opinion the word 'drifter' is american!

I wondered if he was even English with a name like Sousa.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Not Born Yesterday on Sat 21 Apr - 10:09

With acknowledgement to the Jill Havern forum, his full name is Billy Sousa Hughes which indicates that his mother is of Spanish origin.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  fred on Sat 21 Apr - 10:18

Not Born Yesterday wrote:With acknowledgement to the Jill Havern forum, his full name is Billy Sousa Hughes which indicates that his mother is of Spanish origin.

Or Portuguese, my neighbour is Sousa. I bet his mum is Latino as here you put your mothers maiden name then fathers last name.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Oldartform on Sat 21 Apr - 11:16

Not Born Yesterday wrote:With acknowledgement to the Jill Havern forum, his full name is Billy Sousa Hughes which indicates that his mother is of Spanish origin.


Cheers NBY

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Panda on Sat 21 Apr - 11:21



I remember reading that the charge for neglect in Portugal is 1 year in Prison, neglect causing harm is 10 yrs. the PJ supposedly let the neglect charge lapse because they wanted the "causing harm" charge which is quite obviously A FACT. Maybe this is where Gordon Brown stepped in .

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  mossman on Sat 21 Apr - 12:07

Panda wrote:

I remember reading that the charge for neglect in Portugal is 1 year in Prison, neglect causing harm is 10 yrs. the PJ supposedly let the neglect charge lapse because they wanted the "causing harm" charge which is quite obviously A FACT. Maybe this is where Gordon Brown stepped in .

Is there a legal timelimit under which these charges or others such as concealing etc can be brought though ? I would agree with you , th PJ definatley wanted to charge them with someting more than neglect.


Last edited by mossman on Sat 21 Apr - 12:07; edited 1 time in total

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Fern on Sat 21 Apr - 12:07

mossman wrote:Did or do the portugese ever want to charge them with murder though ?

A thought struck me the other day. If Madeleine has died as a result of a fall, an accident, albeit an avoidable one, what official charges would there be ?

If it were a charge of let us say abandonment and concealing a body - is there a limitation on the time charges such as this can be brought ?

To add to this Mossman, even without a body just who exactly would they charge and on what evidence ?

What was the motive ?

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  mossman on Sat 21 Apr - 12:11

Fern wrote:
mossman wrote:Did or do the portugese ever want to charge them with murder though ?

A thought struck me the other day. If Madeleine has died as a result of a fall, an accident, albeit an avoidable one, what official charges would there be ?

If it were a charge of let us say abandonment and concealing a body - is there a limitation on the time charges such as this can be brought ?

To add to this Mossman, even without a body just who exactly would they charge and on what evidence ?

What was the motive ?


I am no legal expert, hence my original question, but they absolutely abandoned Madeleine and as a result caused her harm. Somebody concealed her body, that I am sure is what the police were trying to prove, the who concealed her and where. That is the, as yet, unanswered question.

Their own words provide the evidence that she was left, we know from the results she came to harm. What they will not tell us is the truth of what happened thereafter.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Panda on Sat 21 Apr - 12:28

mossman wrote:
Panda wrote:

I remember reading that the charge for neglect in Portugal is 1 year in Prison, neglect causing harm is 10 yrs. the PJ supposedly let the neglect charge lapse because they wanted the "causing harm" charge which is quite obviously A FACT. Maybe this is where Gordon Brown stepped in .

Is there a legal timelimit under which these charges or others such as concealing etc can be brought though ? I would agree with you , th PJ definatley wanted to charge them with someting more than neglect.


Morning mossman I think the one year penalty lapsed but am very doubtful that the Mccanns could ever be charged with anything now unless some
irrefutable evidence is found. The Prosecutor went to a Judge yonks ago asking if there was sufficient evidence to charge the McCanns and go to Trial,
the Judge replied "show me the body".

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  mossman on Sat 21 Apr - 13:58

Panda wrote:
mossman wrote:
Panda wrote:

I remember reading that the charge for neglect in Portugal is 1 year in Prison, neglect causing harm is 10 yrs. the PJ supposedly let the neglect charge lapse because they wanted the "causing harm" charge which is quite obviously A FACT. Maybe this is where Gordon Brown stepped in .

Is there a legal timelimit under which these charges or others such as concealing etc can be brought though ? I would agree with you , th PJ definatley wanted to charge them with someting more than neglect.


Morning mossman I think the one year penalty lapsed but am very doubtful that the Mccanns could ever be charged with anything now unless some
irrefutable evidence is found. The Prosecutor went to a Judge yonks ago asking if there was sufficient evidence to charge the McCanns and go to Trial,
the Judge replied "show me the body".

Thanks Panda.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  fred on Sat 21 Apr - 14:51

Which judge said "Show me the body"?

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Panda on Sat 21 Apr - 15:21



Hi fred, I don't know, it was a Press report posted on here a long time ago, can't' remember the name of the Paper , sorry.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Badboy on Sat 21 Apr - 15:24

NOT CORREIA,ONLY GUESSING(OR DS)

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  Guest on Sat 21 Apr - 15:45

AnnaEsse wrote:
Badboy wrote:
Not Born Yesterday wrote:Has there ever been a case where someone has been convicted without a body being found and then at a later date the supposed victim turns up?
THERE WAS A CASE IN CHARLES II TIME.
SOMEONE WAS HANGED,THE VICTIM TURNED UP LATER,SAID HE HAD BEEN SOLD INTO SLAVERY?

I think there is a more recent one in the Dr Crippen case. The body found in the cellar, which was said to be Crippen's wife, is now thought to have been male. He said his wife had gone to the US and there appears to be good evidence that she had.

I have read that the wife sent a letter from the States to Winston Churchill (who was Home Secretary) at that time, he put it in his pocket and forgot about it. It would have cleared Crippen, who was hanged, and so it had to be hushed up to protect the Government. They recently took DNA from two of Cora Crippen's living relatives (an old lady of about 90 was one, I believe) and there was no match to the remains.

There was also evidence since unearthed that Dr Crippen performed abortions (which were illegal then) and that the body in the cellar could have been one of his "operations" gone wrong.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

Post  fred on Sat 21 Apr - 16:24

Panda wrote:

Hi fred, I don't know, it was a Press report posted on here a long time ago, can't' remember the name of the Paper , sorry.

Right so it might not be true, just more garbage from the pros? I can't see judge saying that tbh.

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Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

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