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BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

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Post  Fern Fri 20 Apr - 21:57

Autumn wrote:
Fern wrote:
Autumn wrote:

Fern, I believe the dogs therefore I would carry on walking. What would you do?

Would you really ?

So no matter how much the child resembled Madeleine, even if you saw the fleck in her eye, you would still simply turn a blind eye and walk on by based on YOUR opinion of the dogs ?

That is so very sad Autumn.

What fleck in her for Pete's sake? Even the McCanns are playing this down now. So just how close to you suggest a stranger should get to a child? Very close if they can peer into the child's eye. Think about the ideas you may be putting into people's heads before posting up irresponsible and potentially dangerous tips for the publc. This isn't a game of Where's Wally you know.

You're being silly now Autumn and rather dramatic if I may say so.

I haven't made any suggestions whatsoever that ANYONE should chase after children let alone get close enough to look into their eyes.

You've made it clear that you have placed Madeleines fate in the findings of the dogs despite even Martin Grimes himself not committing himself 100%.

That says it all for me.

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Post  ELI Fri 20 Apr - 22:03

Fern wrote:
Autumn wrote:
Fern wrote:
Autumn wrote:

Fern, I believe the dogs therefore I would carry on walking. What would you do?

Would you really ?

So no matter how much the child resembled Madeleine, even if you saw the fleck in her eye, you would still simply turn a blind eye and walk on by based on YOUR opinion of the dogs ?

That is so very sad Autumn.

What fleck in her for Pete's sake? Even the McCanns are playing this down now. So just how close to you suggest a stranger should get to a child? Very close if they can peer into the child's eye. Think about the ideas you may be putting into people's heads before posting up irresponsible and potentially dangerous tips for the publc. This isn't a game of Where's Wally you know.

You're being silly now Autumn and rather dramatic if I may say so.

I haven't made any suggestions whatsoever that ANYONE should chase after children let alone get close enough to look into their eyes.

You've made it clear that you have placed Madeleines fate in the findings of the dogs despite even Martin Grimes himself not committing himself 100%.

That says it all for me.


I think he believes they indicated to the scent of a cadaver though.

"False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated operationally or in training. In six years of operational deployment in over 200 criminal cases.......... "
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Post  Autumn Fri 20 Apr - 22:04

Fern wrote:
Autumn wrote:
Fern wrote:
Autumn wrote:

Fern, I believe the dogs therefore I would carry on walking. What would you do?

Would you really ?

So no matter how much the child resembled Madeleine, even if you saw the fleck in her eye, you would still simply turn a blind eye and walk on by based on YOUR opinion of the dogs ?

That is so very sad Autumn.

What fleck in her for Pete's sake? Even the McCanns are playing this down now. So just how close to you suggest a stranger should get to a child? Very close if they can peer into the child's eye. Think about the ideas you may be putting into people's heads before posting up irresponsible and potentially dangerous tips for the publc. This isn't a game of Where's Wally you know.

You're being silly now Autumn and rather dramatic if I may say so.

I haven't made any suggestions whatsoever that ANYONE should chase after children let alone get close enough to look into their eyes.

You've made it clear that you have placed Madeleines fate in the findings of the dogs despite even Martin Grimes himself not committing himself 100%.

That says it all for me.


Now my turn to ask you a question Fern. The dogs' findings indicated that a dead body had been in Apartmentment 5A so how do you explain this given that there have been no reports prior to Madeleine's disappearance, of anyone dying there?
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Post  Fern Fri 20 Apr - 22:05

ELI wrote:

Well then if they got into a car I would have the make model and hopefully the registration to pass on, the same applies if they went into bus or train station, a house, hotel, store or wherever. Fact is you wouldn't just let them walk off would you like erm Billy supposedly did. Nor would anyone in their right minds publicize the location for fear of putting the childs life in danger would they?

Yes, obtain as much information as possible whilst being very discreet and then most importantly, act on it straight away.

I doubt very much that many still hold that Madeleine is still alive especially after almost 5 yrs however I for one wouldn't walk on by if the likeness was that shocking and turn my back based on my inexperienced interpretation of the dogs findings.
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Post  ELI Fri 20 Apr - 22:09

Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:

Well then if they got into a car I would have the make model and hopefully the registration to pass on, the same applies if they went into bus or train station, a house, hotel, store or wherever. Fact is you wouldn't just let them walk off would you like erm Billy supposedly did. Nor would anyone in their right minds publicize the location for fear of putting the childs life in danger would they?

Yes, obtain as much information as possible whilst being very discreet and then most importantly, act on it straight away.

I doubt very much that many still hold that Madeleine is still alive especially after almost 5 yrs however I for one wouldn't walk on by if the likeness was that shocking and turn my back based on my inexperienced interpretation of the dogs findings.

I agree, and this is what gives this 'sighting' less credability and the knowledge that it wouldn't be splashed all over the news.

As for the dogs, I have not as yet found any reason to doubt their findings.

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Post  Autumn Fri 20 Apr - 22:16

Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:

Well then if they got into a car I would have the make model and hopefully the registration to pass on, the same applies if they went into bus or train station, a house, hotel, store or wherever. Fact is you wouldn't just let them walk off would you like erm Billy supposedly did. Nor would anyone in their right minds publicize the location for fear of putting the childs life in danger would they?

Yes, obtain as much information as possible whilst being very discreet and then most importantly, act on it straight away.

I doubt very much that many still hold that Madeleine is still alive especially after almost 5 yrs however I for one wouldn't walk on by if the likeness was that shocking and turn my back based on my inexperienced interpretation of the dogs findings.

You said earlier that is was a shame the lads didn't have a camera with them to get a photo of the child. Parents now need permission to take photos at their child's school events such as plays. Strangers taking photos of other people's children is quite possibly illegal and could certainly bring them to the attention of the police.
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Post  Fern Fri 20 Apr - 22:16

ELI wrote:

I think he believes they indicated to the scent of a cadaver though.

"False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated operationally or in training. In six years of operational deployment in over 200 criminal cases.......... "

I have no intention at all in trying to discredit these fantastic dogs.

Martin Grimes made several references to cadaver odour and the most important areas in my opinion were the parents room and items of clothing however without evidence to substantiate these indications, I am unable to them as 100% proof.

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Post  ELI Fri 20 Apr - 22:25

Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:

I think he believes they indicated to the scent of a cadaver though.

"False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated operationally or in training. In six years of operational deployment in over 200 criminal cases.......... "

I have no intention at all in trying to discredit these fantastic dogs.

Martin Grimes made several references to cadaver odour and the most important areas in my opinion were the parents room and items of clothing however without evidence to substantiate these indications, I am unable to them as 100% proof.


You must mean the interpretation of the evidentiary samples or should I say JL's ' opinion '. The Forensic report is very confusing as is the analysis in the GBFS report however it's clearer in that report to see how wording is used to manipulate results.
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Post  Fern Fri 20 Apr - 22:26

Autumn wrote:
Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:

Well then if they got into a car I would have the make model and hopefully the registration to pass on, the same applies if they went into bus or train station, a house, hotel, store or wherever. Fact is you wouldn't just let them walk off would you like erm Billy supposedly did. Nor would anyone in their right minds publicize the location for fear of putting the childs life in danger would they?

Yes, obtain as much information as possible whilst being very discreet and then most importantly, act on it straight away.

I doubt very much that many still hold that Madeleine is still alive especially after almost 5 yrs however I for one wouldn't walk on by if the likeness was that shocking and turn my back based on my inexperienced interpretation of the dogs findings.

You said earlier that is was a shame the lads didn't have a camera with them to get a photo of the child. Parents now need permission to take photos at their child's school events such as plays. Strangers taking photos of other people's children is quite possibly illegal and could certainly bring them to the attention of the police.

Its not illegal Autumn, can you just imagine the implications if that was the case ie when visiting a theme park for example with your own children and attempting to take a picture WITHOUT capturing another child in the background ?

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Post  Fern Fri 20 Apr - 22:34

ELI wrote:

You must mean the interpretation of the evidentiary samples or should I say JL's ' opinion '. The Forensic report is very confusing as is the analysis in the GBFS report however it's clearer in that report to see how wording is used to manipulate results.

Regardless of any reports Eli, the evidence just isn't there to substantiate the dogs findings AT THE MOMENT however given how quickly developements are being made in the forensic field, its only a matter of time before a clearer picture emerges.

This of course depends entirely on what samples have remained intact.

Make no mistake, my ONLY concern is for Madeleine and my only hope is that someday the person/s involved in her fate are brought to justice whoever they may be.
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Post  Autumn Fri 20 Apr - 22:38

@Fern. I still think it worrying that you believe it ok for any Tom Dick or Harry to go around taking photos of children on the pretext they may be Madeleine. So anyone taking pics of other people's children, say on the beach, could say 'Oh I thought it was Madeleine'. Or what if a well-meaning person who believes they've seen Madeleine and takes the child's photo is reported to the police by the parents. The parents may even attack the person. I'm just concerned that someone will end up getting hurt.

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Post  ELI Fri 20 Apr - 22:47

Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:

You must mean the interpretation of the evidentiary samples or should I say JL's ' opinion '. The Forensic report is very confusing as is the analysis in the GBFS report however it's clearer in that report to see how wording is used to manipulate results.

Regardless of any reports Eli, the evidence just isn't there to substantiate the dogs findings AT THE MOMENT however given how quickly developements are being made in the forensic field, its only a matter of time before a clearer picture emerges.

This of course depends entirely on what samples have remained intact.

Make no mistake, my ONLY concern is for Madeleine and my only hope is that someday the person/s involved in her fate are brought to justice whoever they may be.

Fern I've no intention of going into the in's and out's of the DNA analysis on here other than pointing out that in order to state that there were enough components for someone to identify an individual, those components had to match that particular individuals reference sample. As for the GBFS conclusions, they are based on comparing hair samples to the NDNAD, rather than known reference samples.
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Post  Fern Fri 20 Apr - 22:55

Autumn wrote:@Fern. I still think it worrying that you believe it ok for any Tom Dick or Harry to go around taking photos of children on the pretext they may be Madeleine. So anyone taking pics of other people's children, say on the beach, could say 'Oh I thought it was Madeleine'. Or what if a well-meaning person who believes they've seen Madeleine and takes the child's photo is reported to the police by the parents. The parents may even attack the person. I'm just concerned that someone will end up getting hurt.


How many times do you believe this happened over the past 5 years Autumn ?

So we've gone from my initial comment that I felt it was a shame this lad didn't take a pic if he felt the resemblance was good enough to report to authorities, to a child being chased by teenagers and now to taking pictures of children on a beach. I can see where this is heading Autumn so I'll leave you to it.





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Post  Panda Fri 20 Apr - 23:00


Why oh why does the British Press toady to the McCanns all the time????? do they really think it sells more papers to print this stuff? The Public is
more intelligent than they think. I have no respect at all for the Mccanns the way they have betrayed the memory of their Daughter for money, they have no conscience .
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Post  Fern Fri 20 Apr - 23:03

ELI wrote:
Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:

You must mean the interpretation of the evidentiary samples or should I say JL's ' opinion '. The Forensic report is very confusing as is the analysis in the GBFS report however it's clearer in that report to see how wording is used to manipulate results.

Regardless of any reports Eli, the evidence just isn't there to substantiate the dogs findings AT THE MOMENT however given how quickly developements are being made in the forensic field, its only a matter of time before a clearer picture emerges.

This of course depends entirely on what samples have remained intact.

Make no mistake, my ONLY concern is for Madeleine and my only hope is that someday the person/s involved in her fate are brought to justice whoever they may be.

Fern I've no intention of going into the in's and out's of the DNA analysis on here other than pointing out that in order to state that there were enough components for someone to identify an individual, those components had to match that particular individuals reference sample. As for the GBFS conclusions, they are based on comparing hair samples to the NDNAD, rather than known reference samples.

Thats fine Eli as its the wrong thread for starters plus its getting late for me.

Very briefly, where were these samples you mention collected from ?
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Post  Claudia79 Fri 20 Apr - 23:06

If I saw someone I don't know specifically taking a picture of my child or any child closely related to me that person would be eating through a straw for a fortnight!
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Post  Fern Fri 20 Apr - 23:07

Panda wrote:
Why oh why does the British Press toady to the McCanns all the time????? do they really think it sells more papers to print this stuff? The Public is
more intelligent than they think. I have no respect at all for the Mccanns the way they have betrayed the memory of their Daughter for money, they have no conscience .

The press are a law unto themselves Panda and its not all been favourable for the McCanns hence why they made a donation to the fund for over stepping the mark.

They are greedy and ruthless with little thought of the hurt it may cause PROVIDED they sell more papers.

I gave up years ago on them.
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Post  matthew Fri 20 Apr - 23:09

HAS THERE BEEN ANY CASE WHERE A CADAVER DOG HAS ALERTED TO A MISSING PERSON & THEN AT A LATER DATE HAS THE MISSING PERSON TURNED UP?
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Post  cherry1 Fri 20 Apr - 23:12

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not to my knowledge
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Post  Guest Fri 20 Apr - 23:14

Has there ever been a case where someone has been convicted without a body being found and then at a later date the supposed victim turns up?
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Post  Panda Fri 20 Apr - 23:17

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Has there ever been a case where someone has been convicted without a body being found and then at a later date the supposed victim turns up?

Not to my knowledge NBY, but I do remember the couple who faked their own death and went to Panama , bought a Property and lived there for several
years , even their Sons thought they were dead.!!
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Post  ELI Fri 20 Apr - 23:18

Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:
Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:

You must mean the interpretation of the evidentiary samples or should I say JL's ' opinion '. The Forensic report is very confusing as is the analysis in the GBFS report however it's clearer in that report to see how wording is used to manipulate results.

Regardless of any reports Eli, the evidence just isn't there to substantiate the dogs findings AT THE MOMENT however given how quickly developements are being made in the forensic field, its only a matter of time before a clearer picture emerges.

This of course depends entirely on what samples have remained intact.

Make no mistake, my ONLY concern is for Madeleine and my only hope is that someday the person/s involved in her fate are brought to justice whoever they may be.

Fern I've no intention of going into the in's and out's of the DNA analysis on here other than pointing out that in order to state that there were enough components for someone to identify an individual, those components had to match that particular individuals reference sample. As for the GBFS conclusions, they are based on comparing hair samples to the NDNAD, rather than known reference samples.

Thats fine Eli as its the wrong thread for starters plus its getting late for me.

Very briefly, where were these samples you mention collected from ?


I believe it was originally stated that there was a full match found in the apartment and that in the in a first scientific approach, the possibility of a compatibility between Madeleine's DNA profile and some of the residues that were collected (among which those that existed in the Renault Scenic vehicle that was rented by the McCanns, were in great quantity), was apparent - 15 -19 genetic markers.


“In the sample collected in the boot area of the vehicle, 15 of the identified
DNA components coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann, this of [having] 19 components.”

“With respect to the trace evidence recovered behind the sofa all the confirmed
DNA components coincide with corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann.”


Last edited by ELI on Fri 20 Apr - 23:25; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Guest Fri 20 Apr - 23:20

Panda, that was John Darwin - only he faked his death, not his wife. I'm pretty sure there's never been a case as mentioned before in the U K but I can vaguely remember hearing of one somewhere else.
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Post  Fern Fri 20 Apr - 23:25

ELI wrote:

I believe it was originally stated that there was a full match found in the apartment and that in the in a first scientific approach, the possibility of a compatibility between Madeleine's DNA profile and some of the residues that were collected (among which those that existed in the Renault Scenic vehicle that was rented by the McCanns, were in great quantity), was apparent - 15 -19 genetic markers.

I don't think I can recall a full match being obtained from 5A Eli however had it been, then surely this would be 'normal' considering Madeleine had stayed there from Sat to Thurs ?

I've always thought it odd that there wasn't a conclusive match found in 5A.

Yes I can remember the initial claim of the 15 - 19 markers from the Scenic however I've not seen the actual report itself have you ?

I can though clearly recall Martin Brunt announcing on Sky News that a 100% DNA match had been found (before he retracted that statement).
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Post  Fern Fri 20 Apr - 23:26

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Panda, that was John Darwin - only he faked his death, not his wife. I'm pretty sure there's never been a case as mentioned before in the U K but I can vaguely remember hearing of one somewhere else.

It was 'canoe' related wasn't it.
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