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Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May

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Post  mara thon on Mon 23 Apr - 11:24

Well if all that doesn't tell you just how biased this programme will be then I don't know what will.
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Post  mossman on Mon 23 Apr - 11:25

That whole discssion further endorsed one simple thing for me. There is no credible argument to be put forward in support of the abduction theory. Not one person who spoke in the McCanns defence could state a single, simple fact that could cast doubt on the alternative to abduction.

It says it all really.
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Post  pennylane on Mon 23 Apr - 11:26

The End Is Nigh wrote:
pennylane wrote:
The End Is Nigh wrote:
Justiceforallkids wrote:coomments are back!!!


Not many ............ Currently down to TWO

It's funny, if you stayed connected.... all the old comments and the new ones are there to see. Once you come out and go back in you lose them. I've still got them in one connection.

That's your Browser's Cache.

Oh I see, thank you TEIN. That explains why when I tried sorting them into highest rated first, they all dissolved before my very eyes. Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 294124
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Post  Oldartform on Mon 23 Apr - 11:29

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Ah well we knew it was too good to last but at least we know that the sceptics far outweigh those in the "you will obey" brigade.

Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 294124

You`re spot on with that NBY - Costello couldn`t have sounded more like a brainwashed robot if he`d tried - reminded me of a dalek - just like that troll we had on here a few months back. He actually kept going non-stop for 12/13 hours, maybe more.


Last edited by Oldartform on Mon 23 Apr - 11:37; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Oldartform on Mon 23 Apr - 11:34

pennylane wrote:
The End Is Nigh wrote:
Justiceforallkids wrote:coomments are back!!!


Not many ............ Currently down to TWO

It's funny, if you stayed connected.... all the old comments and the new ones are there to see. Once you come out and go back in you lose them. I've still got them in one connection.

Pennylane - is it possible for you to copy and paste the last lot and post them on Jill`s? I have tried but my computer won`t do it?

PeterMac had already copied the first ones.
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Post  pennylane on Mon 23 Apr - 11:36

Oldartform wrote:
Not Born Yesterday wrote:Ah well we knew it was too good to last but at least we know that the sceptics far outweigh those in the "you will obey" brigade.

Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 294124

You`re spot on with that NBY - Costello couldn`t have sounded more like a brainwashed robot if he`d tried - reminded me of a dalek - just like that troll we had on here a few months back.

Yesterday an indignant Costello said he would report Dr David Payne........ well about bloody time I thought! Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 25346


Last edited by pennylane on Mon 23 Apr - 11:53; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Guest on Mon 23 Apr - 11:37

These pros all seem to be so humourless - I don't know how anyone can survive in this world without being able to laugh sometimes; not something that the McCanns have a problem with!

The similarity with them and people brainwashed by religious sects is very apparent in my opinion.
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Post  Justiceforallkids on Mon 23 Apr - 11:39

Not Born Yesterday wrote:These pros all seem to be so humourless - I don't know how anyone can survive in this world without being able to laugh sometimes; not something that the McCanns have a problem with!

The similarity with them and people brainwashed by religious sects is very apparent in my opinion.

i agree they are very cultlike say like the waco cult type etc
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Post  Oldartform on Mon 23 Apr - 11:41

Not Born Yesterday wrote:These pros all seem to be so humourless - I don't know how anyone can survive in this world without being able to laugh sometimes; not something that the McCanns have a problem with!

The similarity with them and people brainwashed by religious sects is very apparent in my opinion.

Yep - have thought that for ages myself - creepy, particularly when you see what happened to Bren undergoing her `conversion` - shudder shudder.



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Post  pennylane on Mon 23 Apr - 11:43

Oldartform wrote:
pennylane wrote:
The End Is Nigh wrote:
Justiceforallkids wrote:coomments are back!!!


Not many ............ Currently down to TWO

It's funny, if you stayed connected.... all the old comments and the new ones are there to see. Once you come out and go back in you lose them. I've still got them in one connection.

Pennylane - is it possible for you to copy and paste the last lot and post them on Jill`s? I have tried but my computer won`t do it?

PeterMac had already copied the first ones.

Oh dear, I'm afraid not. I tried sorting them into "highest rated" in order to copy the most popular ones, but they disappeared. Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 284844
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Post  Oldartform on Mon 23 Apr - 11:46

pennylane wrote:
Oldartform wrote:
pennylane wrote:
The End Is Nigh wrote:
Justiceforallkids wrote:coomments are back!!!


Not many ............ Currently down to TWO

It's funny, if you stayed connected.... all the old comments and the new ones are there to see. Once you come out and go back in you lose them. I've still got them in one connection.

Pennylane - is it possible for you to copy and paste the last lot and post them on Jill`s? I have tried but my computer won`t do it?

PeterMac had already copied the first ones.

Never mind, thanks for trying anyway - I`m sure someone has done it.

Oh dear, I'm afraid not. I tried sorting them into "highest rated" in order to copy the most popular ones, but they disappeared. Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 284844

Never mind, thanks for trying. I`m sure someone has managed to save them.


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Post  pamalam on Mon 23 Apr - 12:02

Showing 10 of 157 comments








The Slave



I am looking forward to this. I only pray that it will be based on FACTS. And not McCann 'spin'. Will you be showing footage of the dogs? If not, why not? If this turns out to be yet another propaganda exercise by Clarence Mitchell I will never forgive Panorama. I will never take you seriously again. Is it even ethical to have any input from the detective in charge? Could it compromise any upcoming legal action? Will we get any closer to the truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I await with growing anticipation. I like Bilton.


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MOM OF TWO



So far the BBC has only followed the McCann couples' version of what happened on 3.5.07 so I don't expect this to be any different sadly. Perhaps they could mention that Kate & Gerry didn't physically search that night but still found time to selectively delete calls from their mobile phones. I agree The Slave if panorama doesn't refer to the excellent EVRD dogs and their alerts ONLY on the McCanns' property (no where else) and now they should include the conviction of Susanne Pilley's murderer, a case which RELIED on EVRD dog evidence.


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GaryJames1



What a pathetic comment.


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The Slave



Before you dismiss my comment I suggest you read the police files. Especially the 'Rogatory ' Interviews. I have. A twelve year old could work out that some massive porkies have been told.


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dannybohy



And your comment is...what?


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Suspicious Minds



I really hope this is the beginning of establishing the truth, not just the press reiterating what the Mccanns say, after all their version of events has been proven to be at best inconsistent. The dogs, the neglect, the different versions of stories from all the Tapas group, the hire car, the running off back to the UK, the failure to answer 40 key police questions - I could go on.

If she WAS abducted surely the best way to establish that would begin with obtaining the TRUTH from those that were looking after her and involved in the situation. If Panorama fail to show these facts then they will be a laughing stock - many of us out here in the UK have well researched the background and facts of the case so far...If my child was missing I would be providing as much reliable information as I could as to her last movements, the circumstances in which she came to be missing and helping the police in any way I could, not setting up a magical mystery fund, getting t-shirts and wrist bands printed and meeting the pope.

If I left my car unlocked and my handbag sat on the seat and someone stole it - I would not be covered by my insurance due to not giving my handbag due care and attention, i know the risks so wouldn't do it... just saying.


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1 day ago
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The Slave



Will we or will we not get to find out how any redblooded male could fail to remember that the fragrant Ms.Healy was wearing only a towel when he popped in?
I would..and I'm female.


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1 day ago
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Blondie



Let us hope that Panorama will examine the facts...the dogs' alerts , the inconsistencies in the Tapas7 statements, Hope this is not another pro McCann whitewashing affair. The public need to know the truth. What really happened this little girl in PDL?


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1 day ago
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dannybohy



I wonder if they will mention the time and money being spent by the Mccanns suing people who have spoekn out againt them , those who feel the Mccanns are not telling the truth?. An inquest into the Mccann `fighting` fund itself would prove very interesting, seeing as it was the public who paid into it?. But then if the UK police are doing the job right im sure they have already done this? and im sure they will be helping the PJ to get hold of the Medical records and Credit card details that the Mccann would not supply? and will Panarama ask why the McCann wont freely hand over this information?. Ask why did they take the time in the first day to delete calls and texts?. Why they claimed one minute that the twins where drugged by an abductor but wouldnt let anyone test them afterwards to make sure they ok?.


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EliCollapse



A child vanishes under mysterious circumstances

The closest people to her at the time cannot give an accurate account of the circumstances surrounding her disappearance

Two of the worlds best trained dogs are brought in and detect remains of a cadaver in places and on items only belonging to the closest people connected to the missing child

The findings of the DNA results don’t appear to have been interpreted in the context of other evidence in the case

Inconsistencies in the statements of those closest to the victim are evident for all to see and have never been cleared up

One of the parents refuses to answer questions regarding the circumstances surrounding their own daughters disappearance

The parents of the victim are made prime suspects and leave country in a blink of an eye

The group involved refuse to cooperate with a request to return to do a reconstruction

The parents launch a campaign to bring down anyone who publically questions their version of events

Anyone care to fill in the blanks ?





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dannybohy



@ Eli. YOu got it all nice and clear there, apart from perhaps mentioning Jane Tanners remarkable changing statement of events, why she didnt tell Mccanns about the abductor that night? Why she appears to have said the person looked the opposite of Robert Murat, and then seemingly had no problem with finger pointed at Robert Murat?. All feels like anything to make people look the other way?!. Seeing as thats the only (very flimsy and easy to discount) evidence of any abduction is very important to have Jane Tanner questioned properly.


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Eli



The hypothesis of an abduction as supported by the McCann’s does not rationalise the evidence that is in the original police files.


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dannybohy



with regards to the last Panorama programme on the Mccanns, the PJ has not changed its opinion on where the truth lies, has Panorama changed its view?, or are they going to delivery another sympathetic Mccannogramme disguised as hard hitting review of facts?. The last presenter did not stay objective in my opinion. The Police forces didnt coem to their conclusions lightly! or without very good reason. The last programme tried to make out the PJ turned suddenly on the mccanns in a one of interview just because Kate was alone at the time. Present the facts, not misrepresemt them to fit your own agenda. There is not ` Tenious` about the case against them, bu tonly they can help clear this up, one way or another! willingly or unwillingly as the case may be. ALso interested to see if the Police inspector is going to try and tell us that they are seriously stil looking into abduction scenarios?...

two theories from Panorama alst time. THe Abduction one can be easily discounted with a bit of research, that leaves one theory guys?


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LizzyF



Let's hope we don't hear the word 'abduction' except when referring to the McCann's version of Madeleine's disappearance.


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22 hours ago
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LizzyF



Remember, Panorama, 'You can fool some of the people all of the time and you call fool all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.'


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21 hours ago
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Don Reed



It will be interesting to see how a Scotland Yard inspecter can comment impartially on a case that has not been resolved. He obviously cannot show any bias for or against the parents` stories.


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21 hours ago
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Dulcibelle



Please, Panorama, have regard to your reputation. If this programme is to be more recycled McCann/Mitchell propaganda, pull it from the schedule now. There are too many of us who have read the PJ files, despaired at the constant litigation, laughed ourselves sick at Clarencce Mitchell's pretendy press conferences, and wondered why on earth this little British citizen doesn't merit a proper investigation into her fate, starting with some intensive questioning of the adults on whose care she was relying.


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20 hours ago
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Blondie



Excellent Dulcibelle. I do so hope somebody form the BBC is listening, The majority of viewers are in the category you describe so succinctly.

Not expecting too much though. I am too used to being let down to get my hopes up..


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Dr SilvermanCollapse



Will there be an apology from the BBC to the ex-lead Investigator, Dr Amaral, for bleeping out his speech? It was clear that he was not using profanity, BBC East Mids were well aware of what he actually said ("Speak to the McCanns") yet they tried to discredit him anyway. I do hope that this latest Panorama is not yet another propaganda piece to promote an "abduction" without one shred of evidence.


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19 hours ago
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mossie



the comments below speak for themselves.

do not let madeleine down again and screen another fictional story.

tell the truth, report what is in those police files.


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18 hours ago
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cherrylight



This week a man was convicted of murdering Suzanne Pilley in Scotland.
Some of the strongest evidence against him was from the findings of Cadaver Dogs.
In many ways the case of Madeleine McCann threw up stronger and more compelling evidence against her parents.

The fact that they are still at large, have become millionaires, they have ruined decent people's lives, have attempted to destroy the reputation of professional people who are only trying to find out what happened to this little vulnerable child.

They have destroyed a tourist industry in a region which never asked for this negative and false reporting. They have lost countless people their jobs at a time when they as a pair are accumulating wealth.

There is a story to be told about Madeleine McCann. If this programme is another cover up brought about by forces that will be exposed at some stage, then may god forgive you all because there is a scandal here that is getting bigger the more people (media) try to cover it up. It is no longer blind ignorance it is becoming a large criminal conspiracy. Let's hope that the BBC will restore some pride in journalism and avoid becoming another culprit/suspect in something that is never going away until it is resolved.


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17 hours ago
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Paul Costello



I have never heard such utter rubbish about the case of a missing child. The comments above, I believe, are from a small number of people who are slapping each other on the back in one of the notorious anti-McCann forums on the internet. They are rejoicing in finding another place in which to show their warped view of the parents of missing Madeleine.

What kind of people are these who have commented here with lies and sheer nastiness directed at the parents of Madeleine McCann? And yes I will back up that claim that they are posting lies with the facts to show I am correct.

They are completely ignoring the fact that the Attorney General in the archival report at the end of the Police Investigation in Portugal stated that the parents were NOT guilty of abandoning their children and that there was NO evidence of any crime committed by the parents or the other arguido in the case.

Madeleine's parents have not destroyed the tourist business of the Algarve. The very idea is preposterous. It is a ridiculous lie.

The cadaver dog was not supported in any way by forensics in the case.

The parents have not become millionaires. That is a lie. They have set up a fund which is devoted to the searching for their child and the limitation of damage to the search for their daughter by those profiting from books and booklets which put forward preposterous "theses".

The very idea that Chief Inspector Redwood is only on the programme as part of a PR exercise organised by Clarence Mitchell is ludicrous.

The idea that there should be no inconsistencies in dozens of police statements shows the author of that little gem has not a clue about the reality of complex police investigations.

The amateurish claim that "the hypothesis of an abduction ... does not rationalise the evidence that is in the original police files" completely ignores the evidence from a large number of people that there were strangers hanging around the area, that the apartments had been targeted by thieves shortly before the disappearance, and most significantly that there were WITNESSES who saw a child being carried away from the scene. All of this is in the files. The deliberate ignoring of such clear evidence from the files is typical.

The parents have launched no campaign to bring people down other than those despicable people (newspapers, ex police, stalkers etc.) who have deliberately profited from publishing theories about them and their daughter which are not supported by the evidence in the Police Files.Any normal parent would do the same in the situation. I have followed the Leveson Inquiry and have watched there as the sources of the most bizarre and more importantly wrong theories have been pointed back to leaks from Portugal. No wonder the parents are determined to clear their name and get the search for Madeleine back on track to find what really happened.

I trust that your Panorama programme next Monday will discuss with CI Redwood the current review by Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciara in a full and frank way, showing the way in which the Review is picking up on the best and worst of past investigations and showing how they are moving forward with the hope of discovering what precisely happened to Madeleine McCann in 2007 and a real conclusion to the case.

I truly despair when I read the kind of thing I have read in some of these comments from people who spend hours daily on forums (and have done for years) applauding each other for their hateful comments about this family who suffered the trauma of the loss of their daughter. They are acting like a lynch mob, using their amateurish reading of badly translated files to pronounce that they know what happened. They don't. Only the person or persons directly involved know that. And I hope your programme will make that clear.



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17 hours ago
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cherrylight



So Mr Costello, you obviously have info from being directly involved?
The dogs were never evidence but they are intelligence.
They cannot be ignored.
In the wardrobe, at the window, beyond the window, in the car boot, in the villa.
I applaud your attempts to please your employers.
You argue about the information in the files.
Believe me I know what is in the files.
"You lie with as many teeth as you have in your mouth"


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16 hours ago
in reply to Paul Costello
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cherrylight



Oh and Mr Costello, the witnesses of abduction that you refer to can't obviously be referring to the SMITH family because Mr Smith thought he saw Gerald McCann carrying a child.


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16 hours ago
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Paul Castello



You really are not doing yourself any favours with this kind of ridiculous hateful ranting.

I am not involved in this case in any way other than as an online commentator. Your inept attempt at suggesting that I (or anyone else for that matter) is paid to comment here is childish in the extreme. I suggest before you make such libellous statements you post some kind of evidence, though what that might be as you are utterly wrong in your lie about me I cannot imagine.

The dogs were not supported by any forensics which identified cadaver odour from Madeleine McCann. And the dog handler himself said that this would be absolutely necessary.

You forget that there were a number of Smith family statements. Only one of which suggests the possibility that the adult could have been Gerry McCann. None of the others do. There was also another perfectly credible witness who saw a child being carried in PDL that night.

The implication you have made that I have not read the files while you have is simply wrong. I have read them, largely in the direct Portuguese rather than in the extremely flawed (in a very large number of cases) translations. It appalls me that people are basing their hateful comments on flawed translations of the files. I am glad that both Scotland Yard and the McCann family have commissioned professional translations because only then can you see what is actually being said and not what a group of self-interested amateurs have told you is being said.

I have posted no lies at all unlike you with your silly over the top nonsense about the McCanns destroying Portugal's tourist trade. When you post such nonsense to support your hateful claims about the parents of a missing child you show what your real motives are.

Perhaps the Panorama programme will shed light on the very flawed initial investigation of the disappearance co-ordinated by a man who was at the time himself being investigated for collusion in the torture of a witness in another missing child case? Yes that man was Goncalo Amaral who was convicted of falsifying evidence/perjury while a serving police officer in that case and who later went on to write a book about his theories regarding the McCann case which though they do not agree with the contents of the police files has allowed him to pocket over a million euros.

It strikes me as very odd that this tiny number of vociferous anti-McCanns rely so heavily on a convicted liar for their ideas. Very odd indeed.



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16 hours ago
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cherrylight



Bless you sir.

Extraordinary effort.


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16 hours ago
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The Slave



Paul, Calm down, mate! If the McCanns are as innocent as you claim they are , why oh why did Kate Healy NOT answer the 48 questions put to her? If my child had gone missing and I genuinely didn't know where she was I would be prepared to answer any question put to me, even if it made me look like a bad mother, because at the end of the day your child is far, far more important than your reputation.
Why did Mathew lie? Why did Payne lie? Because one read of the Rogatory interviews will demonstrate without a SHADOW OF A DOUBT that they DID!
Why would they do that? When the life of an innocent three year old was at stake. You have to ask yourself that question.
Why would the parents make such a big deal about the alleged Coluboma 'as a good marketing ploy' only a couple of years later to say 'it was only a brown fleck'? Now a child either does or does not have a Coluboma. Did Madeleine ( or Maddie....check Gerald's original facebook page for confirmation that she WAS called Maddie at home) have this condition or not? It isn't mentioned in description given to Interpol. Just a brown fleck and she also has a birthmark on her knee. Strange . Still keep on chipping in if it makes you feel better.


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4 hours ago
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Dr David Payne



Paul keeps chipping in without ever addressing the pertinent questions asked by the disbelieving public... just like the McCanns themselves.


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4 hours ago
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Eli



"They are completely ignoring the fact that the Attorney General in the archival report at the end of the Police Investigation in Portugal stated that the parents were NOT guilty of abandoning their children and that there was NO evidence of any crime committed by the parents or the other arguido in the case."
Paul Costello

Lets not also forget what the Attorney General made quite clear in the archival .... That there is NO evidence to support the McCann's claim that an abduction took place !
If you are taking the AG’s word as gospel then you must also believe that the abduction theory is not plausible.

" and most significantly that there were WITNESSES who saw a child being carried away from the scene. "
Paul Costello

If you are referring to Jane T. here I strongly suggest that you read her statement and consider how she could have possibly seen someone carrying a child off at the time she claims when she also claims that she was still sat at the table in the Tapas Bar when Kate Mc was talking about how long Gerry Mc had been away from the table doing his check, and even quotes what was said ! Or are you talking about the witness who described the person carrying a child as being Gerry Mc., who couldn't possibly be the same person JT saw unless he carried the child around the streets of PDL for a considerable time. ... Oh but lets not forget the Mc's attempt in their own documentary to make it appear to be one and the same person.

" The cadaver dog was not supported in any way by forensics in the case. "
Paul Costello

According to the handler and trainer in his official report the cadaver dog has never false alerted in training or operational work, to date.

Also Mark Harrison National Search Adviser for Missing persons Searches and Homicides in his report listed cases of success that offered a guarantee of reliability. And he asserted that if the dogs came to signal Maddie’s death, then it would be a fact.

(Edited by author 15 hours ago)


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16 hours ago
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Paul CastelloCollapse



Where in the report did the AG state there is no evidence of abduction? Page number? As I recall he claimed that there was no way that what could happen could be determined and all options were possible.

Your patronising attempt to suggest that I have not read those statements is amusing. I have read them with a great deal of care and with some understanding of the nature of witness statements. There are discrepancies as there always are in statements. That fact does not in any way prove that they are not largely accurate.

And your claim that Mr Smith described the person as "being Gerry McCann" shows wilful ignorance on your part. You know as well as I do that he did no such thing. He stated that there was a chance it was him. And it is important to recall that he was the only one of four witnesses who believed that. He was not backed up in that suggestion by any of the others. All evidence must be looked at in a case and balanced, it should not be cherry-picked and misrepresented as you have clearly done with that incorrect comment you have just made.

I repeat however what the Attorney General did say. He was categorical in that there was no abandonment of the children by the McCann parents and categorical in that there was no evidence of any crime by the McCanns. Not insufficient evidence but NO evidence.



Dr Silverman



In the case that you can understand Portuguese, Mr Costello or Castello, you will be so kind as to confirm that Dr Amaral did not use profane language towards the McCanns, and therefore deserves an apology from the BBC and all the other tabloid hacks who have deliberately misquoted and libelled him.


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15 hours ago
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Paul Castello



From the video clip I have seen of that I am not able to determine conclusively what Goncalo Amaral actually said.

I see you are not able to deny that he is a convicted liar of course. Can you explain why you implicitly believe in what such a man says when he disgraced his own role of police officer by conspiring to cover up actual torture of the mother of another missing child? What makes you think he is not lying about the McCann case as well?


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15 hours ago
in reply to Dr Silverman
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Dr Silverman



Then I would suggest you read the BBC website, Mister Castello or Costello, where the BBC admit themselves that an official complaint against them was upheld. Dr Amaral did in fact say "Fala com os McCann" and it is there in writing. As you tell us that you can read and understand Portuguese, perhaps you will confirm what this means. And if you would like a second opinion, Martin Brunt of Sky was also present at the time, and confirms it on his own blog over at the Sky site.


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15 hours ago
in reply to Dr Silverman
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Paul Castello



I was asked if I could confirm it. I stated honestly that I cannot. Perhaps these other people had access to better copies of the film or better speakers.

The issue is irrelevant, as far as I am concerned, to the matter in hand which is the review of the Madeleine McCann case.


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15 hours ago
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Dulcibelle



From the Portuguese Attorney General's Archiving Report, and referring to the reconstruction of the evening of May 3 which the Portuguese Police had wanted to carry out, but which the McCanns and their friends refused to attend:

"We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified."

I can highly recommend googling Blacksmith Bureau and Dr Martin Roberts for enlightenment on the holes in the McCann case.

(Edited by author 15 hours ago)


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15 hours ago
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Paul Castello



That phrase (in context) states that the refusal of the friends of the McCanns to return for the reconstruction damaged the prospects of the parents of Madeleine to prove what they claimed.

Not surprisingly, of course, it avoids mentioning that this refusal was done on specific legal advice in light of the possibility that the parents of Madeleine were being set up by the investigating team.

The flawed conclusions of Amaral's team regarding the DNA for example (as illustrated in his own claims about the DNA in his book) show that there were reasons to refuse the request for a reconstruction at that time.

There was, of course, a much better time for a reconstruction immediately after the disappearance but it was Goncalo Amaral and his team who refused it then, though the parents were perfectly willing then. His grounds for refusal included that he would have to close Portuguese airspace and that it would upset other holidaymakers.


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15 hours ago
in reply to Dulcibelle
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Dr Silverman



Maybe Duarte Levy stole it.


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15 hours ago
in reply to Paul Castello
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Paul Castello



Stole what? Are you suggesting that Duarte Levy committed some kind of offence? How is that claim of yours relevant to the Madeleine case review?

Incidentally what point are you trying to make by pretending not to be able to read my name? Why are you being so silly? What game are you playing? Do you need glasses?


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15 hours ago
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Dr Silverman



I was just saving you the trouble, Nick.


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15 hours ago
in reply to Dulcibelle
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DulcibelleCollapse



It sounded to me as though he said "Fala com McCanns" which would have been a logical response to the question he was being asked at the time. ("Speak with the McCanns" for those readers not fluent in Portuguese.)


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15 hours ago
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Paul Castello



To some it sounds like an obscenity in English (and I believe Goncalo Amaral speaks a modicum of English), to others a Portuguese phrase as you state. I cannot hear it clearly enough to decide.


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15 hours ago
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Dr Silverman



Dear Mister Castello or Costello,
Let us suppose for one moment that Dr Amaral lied. Did the Portuguese Attorney General also lie? Two highly regarded Cadaver Dogs and their handlers? The Irish family? The rest of the Portuguese investigation? The Leicestershire officers?
What makes you think that each and every one of these people are also liars? How much of a conspiracy theory are we supposed to believe?


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15 hours ago
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Paul Castello



We know that Goncalo Amaral lied, He was convicted and found guilty (even after appeal) of lying in a missing child case. He lied about the torture of the mother in that case and is currently still serving his sentence.

I don't believe any of the others have lied. None of them though has ever said (as Goncalo Amaral has) that the parents were guilty of any crime,. Not the Attorney General, not the dogs, not the Smiths, not the Leicestershire Police. Of the people you mention only Goncalo Amaral has stated that the parents were involved in the disappearance of their child. Unfortunately he has not given any proof of that claim and at the libel trial which is due to open in September he may rue that fact.

What lies are you suggesting all these other people have told because I have never seen a lie from any of them? So, no I am not suggesting any of them have lied.


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15 hours ago
in reply to Dr Silverman
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Dr Silverman



In that case, Mister Paul whatever-your-name-is, you must be agreeing that there was no evidence of abduction and that the case to answer was the concealment of a death and a body. Because those were the conclusions not only of Dr Amaral, but the entire Portuguese investigation in conjunction with Leicestershire Police. They are not looking for anyone else. The Portuguese AG himself said that the McCanns forfeited the opportunity to clear their names completely. Which of course you will be able to read and verify for yourself as you tell us you can undertand Portuguese.


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15 hours ago
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Paul Castello



Again you pretend not to be able to read my name. What is the matter with you? You are making yourself look silly.

And your presumption of what I am saying is so wide of the mark that I think you really do have problems reading here. I challenge anyone to find anything in what I have posted that even vaguely agrees with that presumption of yours.

Where did the AG say any such thing about the McCanns? If you are referring to this phrase, "We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified." then you really have to go back and read it in context more carefully. It places no blame whatsoever on the McCanns if you care to read it properly. It is referring to the actions of others which caused the McCanns case some damage.

I think you have been caught out by the stilted phrasing in the English translation. Its accurate but not clear English. An example of the problems I highlighted earlier.



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15 hours ago
in reply to Dr Silverman
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Dr Silverman



Oh I can read perfectly well, Mr Costello/Castello. It seems to be yourself who has difficulty in remembering what your own name is.


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3 hours ago
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Paul Castello



It is worth repeating the following.. There is nothing whatsoever in the final report of the Attorney General of Portugal which suggests any crime by the parents of Madeleine McCann. He specifically points out they did not abandon their children and he specifically points out that there is NO evidence which points to any crime committed by them.

He is critical about the refusal of the friends to return for a reconstruction but doesn't make it clear that this refusal was on legal advice and that his own investigation team led by Goncalo Amaral had refused to do a reconstruction when it really could have counted in the first few weeks after the disappearance.

Goncalo Amaral was a very odd choice for co-ordinator of the Madeleine Investigation. He was being investigated at the time for involvement in the torture of the mother of another missing girl (never found) at the time and was later convicted criminally for his involvement in that case. He is currently serving his sentence for that crime which he committed while a serving police officer.

I am appalled that so many here rely for their "lynch mob" style claims about the parents of Madeleine on the thesis of this ex-policeman whose lies have seen him get a criminal record in a similar case. He has not yet shown any evidence for his claim that the parents of Madeleine being involved in her disappearance (claims made in the book he earned a million euros from for his personal use) and may rue making such claims when the libel trial about that book begins in September.

I am also appalled that these people come here and make outrageous claims about the parents of Madeleine based on what is clearly their poor interpretation of flawed translations of complex legal documents. They assume that every statement in a police investigation must match perfectly with every other (something anyone with ten minutes experience of actual police work would tell them is ridiculous). They assume that the garbled translations are accurate representations of what was said. They assume that the amateurs who translated these documents had no agenda for spending hours doing so.

The fact is that, as the Attorney General stated, there is not sufficient evidence of any kind to point to any conclusion in the case. No-one knows what happened, not the police officers, not the general public and not even these people who claim so often to have "read the files". He makes the point that there is a likelihood that Madeleine is no longer alive but does not rule out the possibility she is and I believe anyone with goodness in their hearts will not simply presume she is dead and harangue the parents but like Kate and Gerry will hope that she is someday found alive and reunited with them.

I simply wish that this programme on Panorama gives us an insight into what the Scotland Yard and Portuguese Police Combined Review which Madeleine's parents have begged for, is managing to achieve and that through its work we get closer to finding out what happened to the poor little child at the heart of the case.

(Edited by author 14 hours ago)


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14 hours ago
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The Slave



Thing is, Paul, the parents could have requested AT ANY TIME the reopening of the case. They didn't/haven't. Why do reckon that is then? I mean to say.... what normal parent wouldn't?
The opportunity has been there to ask for the reopening since it was archived.



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3 hours ago
in reply to Paul Castello
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Chinagirl



Bravo, Paul Castello! Pithy comments well-written.


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6 hours ago
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HannahCollapse



The McCanns have insulted peoples intelligence for long enough and it's high time this façade was brought to a just conclusion.

Jane Tanner is totally unconvincing with her alleged abductor sighting and alibi for Gerry McCann, and upon reading the McCanns absurd version of events, it comes as no surprise that the CSI blood and cadaver dogs marked death in the McCanns apartment and on their possessions. They refused to return for a reconstruction, whilst stating they would 'leave no stone unturned' to find their child. They have indeed left no stone unturned in begging for money, and suing all and sundry who dare point out the endless discrepancies in their bizarre version of events.

Spineless UK media and journalists have run with endless propaganda that comes straight from the McCanns hired mouthpiece Clarence Mitchell, and are still doing so to this day.

If Scotland Yard ignore the enormous discrepancies in the McCanns and friends versions of events, it will say all I need to know about British justice.

(imo)


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5 hours ago
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mossie



i for one would be encouraged if the programme will answer the following questions for me:
why do the mccanns think it is ok to leave three children under three alone for even five minutes, not to mention systematically for a period of hours over the course of a week;
why have they never returned to portugal to carry out a police reconstruction;
why were they so busy on the night that at least one of them could not go out and search;
why have they quite recently stated that they never made much of the colomba, please clarify is it there or not or is it a "fleck" as was recently described by Mrs Mccann;
why have they never officially written to the portugese authorities demanding the case be re-opened;
why were they not worried or show any concern about the alerts of the dogs in particular the cadaver dog. whilst i fully undertand they may not hold this particular method of investigation in any high regard, would they happily get on a plane when an explosives dog alerts to someting on that plane prior to take off;
why have they never, in so far as i am aware, made an international appeal for the man who mr smith saw that night or at least given it as much publicity as that of ms tanners sighting;
why are they tirelessly commencing litigation after litigation, much of which is aimed at what they themselves have called "internet nutters". surely the money and time would be better spent in aiding the search for their small child

there are many more questions i have, but they are too numerous to mention here.

in looking for answers to these questions i am in no way suggesting madeleines parents were complicit in what happened, so perhaps Mr Costello not everybody who has questions to ask should be described in the manner in which you speak below.


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5 hours ago
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Dr Silverman



Some FACTS of the case.

Kate McCann refused to answer 48 Police questions. Their friends refused to return to Portugal for an official Police reconstruction.

Two world-reknowned cadaver-scent dogs, now under contract to no less than the FBI, indicated the scent of cadaverine and blood in the McCann's apartment, car, and on their clothing.

Out of the millions of pounds that were raised for the McCann Limited Liability Company fund, only 13 % was spent on the actual search for the child. This is from their own accounts and cannot be disputed.

Photographs and videos have been removed from online newspapers at the request of the McCanns press office, as they looked "too happy" in the photographs.

Facebook pages have been merged with the official McCann one, again at the request of the family, without the consent or permission of the people on them.

Photographs of other missing children have been used in the McCanns campaigns, without the permission of the families - in one case, the family explicitly said not to do so, and the McCanns went right ahead and did it anyway.

Kate McCann did not physically search for her lost child that night and tells us this herself in a TV interview.

The McCanns put plans in place for a long term business strategy by the sixth day, although Madeleine could have been "found" at any time. Uncle John gave up a full time, well paid job to "manage" the company, despite having a family of his own to support.

Witnesses were "visited" by members of the campaign team, while an active investigation was still going on.

Each of these facts is well documented and can be proven. Perhaps those are the sorts of questions that you should be asking.



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4 hours ago
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Dr Silverman



@Paul Costello or Castello or Honestbroker or whatever your name is today - kindly keep your arrogance to yourself. I have not been caught out by anything, especially not the McCann spin doctor, and rubbish in the UK press. I also speak and understand Portuguese, probably every bit as well, if not a lot better, than you, considering that I actually lived there for a number of years and this was long before Google Translate.


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4 hours ago
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Eli



Timing is all important and being able to seize opportunities at the right moment is crucial to the success of anything. In 2007 the internet was still in its infancy and a relatively new place for many people and cyber space was a new frontier that was almost as daunting as the computer itself. The British government at the time promoted the use of this technology, subsidising and encouraging every household to get a computer and go online. Had Madeleine gone missing a couple of years earlier the whole dynamics of the McCann’s campaign would have been so different. The timing was perfect to use the internet as a platform to reach the general public and bring people together with a common purpose. Madeleine had touched the hearts of millions around the world, young and old, rich and poor and from all walks of life, almost everyone wanted to help. The internet proved to be a useful campaigning tool which motivated people to become involved and even group together, though there was a flipside to it which I don’t believe anyone anticipated. Communication via the internet pushes the boundaries we can explore. Our inquisitive nature is driven by curiosity, that emotion, the desire for new information and experiences, once aroused drives us to look for answers. The tragic story of Madeleine's disappearance is discussed globally by users of the World Wide Web on internet social media sites and it’s apparent that there are two camps, one which seems to accept the reports given by the McCann’s and their family and friends without question and another which challenged those reports. Curiously even in the early stages of the investigation it soon became apparent that to question or show any kind of disapproval with the McCann’s actions or state any differences of opinion regarding their account of the events was seen by some as more than just questioning and expressing concerns. It was as though it was seen as dissent or non conformism which had to be suppressed.

Someone once said the truth is more important than facts and it is becoming clearer by the day that facts in this case were few and far between. Right from the onset many of the reports emanating from both Portugal and Britain just didn’t marry up. It was almost as though two different versions of events were being told. Whether or not this was just poor journalism or a deliberate attempt from one or both sides to mislead the public is a question we may never truly know. I think it’s only fair to say that in most cases it is not unusual for there to be some variation in the accounts made, however many of these reports did appear to have been direct quotes of statements made to the media. These though were more than just simply conflicting reports, they contained crucial pieces of information which were detrimental to understanding what had actually occurred directly before and after Madeleine was reported to have gone missing. How it was possible that people so closely connected to the case were reporting conflicting stories was something that seems to be pushed to the back of many people’s minds. The emphasis was clearly focussed on Madeleine having been abducted and the anguish this had caused her family. In the early stages and to this day it isn't clear which reports are just sensationalism and drama and what is in fact the truth.

What is certain though is that there was continued criticism about Portugal and their Police force. The image being portrayed by certain people associated with the McCann family was one of a third world country with a blundering police force that didn’t seem to have a clue what they were doing. This image was quickly picked up on by many people who believed the McCann’s were somehow the victims of a lacking police force. The Portuguese police however were in fact doing exactly what any other police force would have done in those circumstances and that is to not only consider abduction as the only possible scenario but to also examine other possible alternatives. Anyone would have known beforehand that it is in fact normal police procedure to always look at the closest people connected to the victim and that includes parents. Of course we’ve already been told this was a blundering third world police force that had made numerous mistakes, so if you believed that, it would be no surprise then for them to get things wrong by suspecting something other than abduction happened. Considering figures show that Portugal had one of the lowest crime rates in Europe and that the Polcia Judiciaria are broadly equivalent to Britain’s very own Scotland Yard with detection rates only slightly below Britain, this really does make people wonder what exactly is going on.


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4 hours ago
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Dr David Payne



Google Gaspar statements.


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4 hours ago
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Paul Castello



Well it is clear in the statement of the male doctor involved he is adamant that he did not believe that the conversation was about the child Madeleine McCann. He completely denied the report of his wife. Such statements are just evidence and should be taken in context, should be properly discussed in court and the witnesses should be cross-examined to ensure reliability of the content.

The fact that you are taking one of the statements without having due regard to the other one which completely denies the first shows that you are simply trying to make things fit your biased view. I suggest you start to understand that is not how justice works in civilised society.

Nor is it normal for decent people in civilised society to assume the identity and use the name of a person and their photograph on the internet. In fact that is probably an illegal action. And the fact that you have done that shows that you are not a decent person.

I would ask the moderators to consider their own position in allowing you to use the identity of that doctor here when it is clear you are simply doing so to abuse the McCanns and their friends.


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1 hour ago
in reply to Dr David Payne



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Panda



Thank you for such an informative summary of events , I agree with all your
comments and hope like so many that justice for Madeleine will be done in the
end. Iam concerned that Andy Redwood is to appear on Panorama and wonder
what he can contribute? Will he say the Review has been completed and no
evidence of the PJ not following up sightings? Surely Theresa May should make
such an announcement since so much of Taxpayers money has been used.

The Press as usual are commenting on the latest "sighting" and are a disgrace,
I suspect Joe Public does not believe these made to order ridiculous stories and
hope the case will be closed by the Portugese Police so the Mccanns start
using their own money to continue the search for Madeleine.
.


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3 hours ago
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Paul Castello



You do understand that posting such libellous claims here in the UK is laying you open to a serious legal action. Do you actually have any evidence as you claim that these sightings are invented? If not why are you just inventing things yourself?


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1 hour ago
in reply to Panda



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Panda



My post appeared without a name and was directed at Dr. Silverman


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3 hours ago



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Don ReedCollapse



This is not really the place to argue points in this case but whether guilty or innocent, the public would probably not be questioning this affair if the McCanns had not set up a company within days of Madeleine`s disappearance and made plans for months ahead - Madeleine could have turned up the next day! This action, plus making millions and generating fame, of course, makes the public suspicious.
This comment section is surely just to discuss whether the Panorama programme (and Andy Redwood) can be impartial and not show bias one way or the other.


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3 hours ago
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Dr Silverman



If this programme is yet another propaganda piece, then it has a very great bearing on the guilt or innocence of any party. In fact it is called perverting the course of justice, by ensuring that the McCanns can never have a fair trial. And considering that over £3m of taxpayers money has been thrown at this case, then the public has every right to expect a fair result.


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3 hours ago
in reply to Don Reed
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Don Reed



Well hopefully this programme won`t pervert the course of justice. We`ll have to wait and see.


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3 hours ago
in reply to Dr Silverman
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Paul Castello



The company was set up in response to the influx of donations which had to be handled. Money was flooding in long before anyone called for donations and had to be dealt with properly. If they had simply kept it all with no accounts etc then they would have been criticised.



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1 hour ago
in reply to Don Reed



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comperedna



I do hope this program will take a serious look at all the possibilities of what could have happened to Madeleine. Almost everything in the press appears to have been filtered through 'approved spokesmen'. Abduction is only one of the hypotheses: the only one which receives official approval. As far as I know there is no evidence for it... other than that the child disappeared. If Scotland Yard and the Portuguese police are working closely together, and if all those there at the time, and all those who gave witness statements, are now willing to co-operate with the police, the situation could be clarified... Sorry, that should read... we might find out what really happened on May 3rd, or possibly a day or two earlier. The fact that 'no new evidence' has turned up is less worrying than might be thought. Lookee likee 'sightings' are fanciful and no help at all! There is masses of evidence... just awaiting for one or two major pieces of the jigsaw to be filled in, so that matters may proceed, and the case be fully reopened. Perhaps evidence previously deemed in-admissable may after all be included in the case? Perhaps one of those closely involved may have a rethink, and review his or her statement as to what happened? The case will never go away: it will remain as a cold case constantly discussed, particularly by anyone involved in, or concerned about child protection (or those concerned with libel law, or reputation management for that matter). It will be up for re-opening at any time until we do find what happened to the child. Perhaps, eventually, someone's conscience will trouble them so much that the full truth will come out... with enough evidence for a successful court case.


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2 hours ago
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Paul Castello



Indeed there were so many flaws in the original case that the re-opening of it would be wonderful news. That is exactly what Madeleine's parents have been hoping for because they saw at first hand the appalling mistakes that the PJ made.

Did you see the statement, for example, by the eye witness Keir Simmonds who saw the checkpoint at the border just a day or so after the disappearance give up because of the rain? Appalling police work which would be slammed by any decent person.


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1 hour ago
in reply to comperedna



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Carolina



Paul Castello: How many times does one have to correct you and point out that Gonçalo Amaral did not lead the investigation into either the Joana Cipriano case or the Madeleine McCann case. Why do you insist on repeating this inaccuracy. He was a coordinator and not an investigator. In Portugal it the juíz de instrução who leads any criminal investigation, he decides for example if the PJ can go look into a pet incinerator and question the owner or if they can bring in cadaver dogs or question other witnesses, etc. Gonçalo Amaral as a coordinator decides, after having received these indications from the judge, which inspectors will go, which cars they can use, how much money they take with them. He makes no decisions as to the actual investigation or which diligencies are to be carried out. He receives the reports from the inspectors after they have carried out their diligencies and he also makes reports about what they have said. His job is mostly paperwork at the desk. These functions are clearly defined and if he did anything without authorisation from the judge, it would have been null and void.
Furthermore, he did not make the decision not to carry out the reconstruction during the first days. That was a joint decision made by the police officers, the head of the PJ, Alípio Ribeiro and the Ministério Público and which was a big mistake.
As for Gonçalo Amaral's conviction, I must say that it is one of the strangest decisions I have heard of. He was convicted for false testimony based on the report he made regarding the incident with Leonor Cipriano in the PJ in Faro. This same report was based on what he was told by the other PJ inspectors, who were acquitted by the way, as he did not witness the incident. Very, very strange but not so unusual here unfortunately. The trial confirmed that Leonor Cipriano was tortured but no investigation has been called for in order to find out who did it since the defendents had been acquitted. Also, the judge ordered that Leonor be investigated for perjury!!!


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2 hours ago
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Paul Castello



I was perfectly clear that this man co-ordinated the investigation. Just as I am perfectly clear that he is a convicted criminal himself. In fact I believe he is the only convicted criminal involved in the McCann case.

You seem to think that his role was minimal. From his own book it is very clear that he disagrees with you.

You are making a very poor case for this man,

Can you explain then the logic for the authorities putting this man in such a responsible position in a missing child case on the very day that he was made an arguido because he was being investigated over corruption and torture claims in another very controversial missing child case? You may well be right and the Judge involved or whoever made such a crazy decision is also in part to blame.

But I fear that you are going over the top in your attempts to claim that Goncalo Amaral had almost no responsibility for anything.

As for the Cipriano case, it is clear that when things don't go right for your hero you simply choose to think they were wrong. But there are still legal cases to be heard and some of those will involve the police who were investigating. It is not over yet by any means. Goncalo Amaral may once again be called to account for his actions in that case even though he has already been convicted by one court for his false testimony and gone on to lose his appeal in a more senior court. It seems you think both these courts simply got it wrong. Mmmm?


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1 hour ago
in reply to Carolina



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Hannah



Interesting that the litigious McCanns or their friend Dr David Payne, have not sued Dr Katerina Gaspar over her allegations that she witnessed a depraved conversation between the two men on a previous holiday!


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2 hours ago
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Paul Castello



Interesting you only concentrate on the statement of the female doctor. Her husband was categorical that he did not believe the conversation was about Madeleine. Lynch mobs pick and choose the evidence and ignore everything which shows them to be wrong.


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2 hours ago
in reply to Hannah

pamalam
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Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 Empty Re: Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May

Post  pamalam on Mon 23 Apr - 12:05


BrenCollapse



Have you never heard of 'privilege'? That is why Dr David Payne can't sue the Gaspars because the statement they gave to police was under privilege. If you cast your mind back to the Select Hearing and Louise Mensch and Piers Morgan spat, what Louise said at the select committee was under privilege the moment she repeated it outside that select hearing room she could be sued for libel and defamation.

The same applies to the Gaspars, what they told the Police in their statements is under privilege, but should they repeat what they said in newspapers, comments or in public then Dr David Payne CAN sue for libel and defamation.

If Police Statements were not classed as being under 'privilege' half the world would sue people..

So there is your answer as to why he doesn't sue the Gaspars, it's because he legally can't at the moment and I am sure he would do if they repeated these allegations in public.


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43 minutes ago
in reply to Hannah

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Dr David Payne



Google McCann Intercalary report


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1 hour ago
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Paul Castello



Are you really Dr. Payne or are you simply being a very nasty person using that ID to abuse the real Dr. Payne?

You apparently are also using the photograph of the real Dr. Payne. What is your motive for doing that?

You appear to be one of the typical nasty people whose aim is to accuse the McCanns and their friends of crimes for which the Attorney General who has read the files I believe clearly says have no evidence against them of any crime?

What kind of disgusting game are you playing here with your probably illegal use of that doctor's name and photograph? I presume that you are aware that assuming someone's identity is a serious criminal offence.


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1 hour ago
in reply to Dr David Payne



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Sofia



Does anyone know why Amaral went into hiding on his court date last week?

Odd he didn't do his videoconferencing, but went on telly to back his crooked mate.


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1 hour ago
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Paul Castello



Can anyone explain why Goncalo Amaral is now listed as being a resident of a Police station in Lisbon? Has he been arrested?


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1 hour ago
in reply to Sofia



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Maureen Lang



I see that these people are still using Fantasy Names. And I very much doubt that Dr. David Payne would ever post in such circumstances, so his name is being abused. The statements made by The Gaspars did not correspond as they did not agree on the circumstances, so it is a lie to suggest that they did. And the statement of Katerina Gaspar was decidedly obtuse in so far as she very much only put her own interpretation on what she thought she might have heard. But I find it extremely difficult to believe that two fathers would have been discussing the sexual abuse of their daughters with a relative stranger sitting between them, as she has stated she was.


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1 hour ago
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Paul Castello



I have just suggested to the moderators here that they should consider seriously the legal position of allowing a person to assume a UK citizen's identity and post here.

Indeed you are absolutely right. One statement, made many years after the events involved by one of the witnesses is completely denied by the statement of her husband.

Those seeking to abuse the McCanns and their friends completely ignore this fact and like the lynch mob they truly are simply choose to pick the one comment they think supports their hate.

Civilised justice allows for proper consideration and cross-examination of witnesses in court. These haters with their lynch mob tactics simply do not understand or accept the rule of law.


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1 hour ago
in reply to Maureen Lang
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Maureen Lang



Indeed, Paul Costello. But Katerina Gaspar's statement would never have been considered in Court in the light of what her husband had to say, apparently quite independently. Although I suspect that she meant well, some several years later.
I also believe from what I have read in The Files that these statements were sent to The PJ considerably sooner than Goncalo Amaral admits to. They were just mixed up in the mess of information left on his supposedly Coordinating Desk.
The Gasper Statements will have been considered, and then discarded as totally unproven.


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1 hour ago
in reply to Maureen Lang
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Paul Castello



Exactly.

And questions would rightly have been asked as to why she did not report her concerns earlier. As a doctor she has a legal responsibility to report all concerns of abuse of children immediately.

It is a shame that the haters of the McCanns led by that individual here who has (illegally?) assumed a public figure's identity, are unable to actually understand the way the law works in a civilised society. Evidence is scrutinised carefully.

We all know about the lynch mobs who showed downright ignorance and confused paediatrician with paedophile. Well these lynch mobs haters of the McCanns are at the same level in their ignorance. They hear something, see something and cannot actually process it properly.


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52 minutes ago
in reply to Maureen Lang



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Richard



Before reading the discredited 'Intercalary report', people should be aware that the author Tavares Almeida was an arguido himself at time of writing because of his involvement in the torture of Virgolino Borges as detailed by Amnesty International.


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1 hour ago
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Paul CastelloCollapse



Just as the co-ordinator of the Madeleine McCann search was made arguido himself on 4th May (the first day after the disappearance of Madeleine) in another missing child case. As an arguido in that case involving the torture by the Portuguese Police to get a confession from the missing child's mother Goncalo Amaral was later charged, convicted and sentenced. He even lost an appeal in a higher court.

Why would the authorities in Portugal allow a policeman being accused of involvement in the torture of the mother of one missing child to take charge of another missing child case. Something is seriously not right in that.


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1 hour ago
in reply to Richard
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Dr David Payne



Discredited by whom? You?


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1 hour ago
in reply to Richard
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Dr David Payne



Conclusions:

From everything that we have discovered, our files result in the following conclusions:

A. the minor Madeleine McCann died in Apartment 5A at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, on the night of 3 May 2007

B. a simulation - a staged hoax - of an abduction took place

C. in order to render the child’s death impossible before 10.00pm, a situation of checking of the McCann couple’s children while they slept was concocted

D. Dr Gerald McCann and Dr Kate McCann are involved in the concealment of the corpse of their daughter, Madeleine McCann

E. at this moment, there seems to be no strong indications that the child’s death was other than the result of a tragic accident, yet;

From what has been established up to now, everything indicates that the McCann couple, in self-defence, did not want to deliver up Madeleine’s corpse immediately and voluntarily, and there is a strong possibility therefore that it was moved from the initial place where she died. This situation may raise questions concerning the circumstances in which the death of the child took place.


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1 hour ago
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Paul Castello



That is typical of the anti McCann haters.

You have posted above the result of the investigation at the stage when Goncalo Amaral was thrown off the case.

You have completely ignored the fact that the PJ carried on the investigation under the co-ordination of a man who unlike Goncalo Amaral was not being charged and convicted of criminal actions for involvement in torture of the mother of a missing child..

The result of the full investigation (not this interim report) had totelly different conclusions.

The FINAL report is clear that there was NO evidence of any crime by the McCanns and specifically states that they did NOT abandon their children.

It says for example.

"- Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively – the most dramatic – to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.

But therefore we do not possess any minimally solid and rigorous foundation in order to be able to state, with the safety that is requested, which was or were the exact and precise crime(s) that was or were practised on the person of the minor Madeleine McCann – apart from the supposed but dismissed crime of exposure or abandonment – or to hold anyone responsible over its authorship.


-To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated."

Your inability to tell the whole story is typical of the anti McCanns who just pick and choose anything they can find to support their hate of the parents of missing Madeleine.

Unfortunately for you that is not the way justice actually works. That is the way lynch mobs work and lynch mobs containing people like you who assume other people's identities to abuse them are despised by everyone who upholds justice. Only the nastiest elements of society believe your actions are justified.

And once again can you explain why you have assumed (illegally I assume) the identity of someone else to abuse the McCanns?


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1 hour ago
in reply to Dr David Payne
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Sofia



You are quoting Gonc files. Not the files that haven't been deliberately altered in translation.


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49 minutes ago
in reply to Dr David Payne



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Paul Castello



I find it quite horrifying that these haters rely for all their claims either on the word of the ex-cop who was convicted for lying/false testimony in a torture case or on the very flawed amateur translations of complex legal documents.

On that they base their hate and lynch mob ideas of warped justice.

Decent people understand these limitations and scrutinise everything carefully. They also understand that the word of the Attorney General of Portugal who found no evidence of any crime by the McCanns may be more reliable than that of a disgraced ex-cop, currently serving a sentence for false testimony who claims without providing any evidence that the McCanns disposed of their child's body. I know what I think and it isn't the same as these haters who are playing horrible games here assuming identities of people involved in the case to post their hateful lies.


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42 minutes ago
in reply to Sofia



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Richard



No point in quoting the discredited and outdated intermediate report written by Almeida, when the Attorney General of Portugal overturned it and cleared the McCanns of any crime without charge.

b) The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.


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1 hour ago



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Dr David Payne



The McCanns' odd cult-like supporters always quote the case of Joana Cipriano, to try and discredit Goncalo Amaral, but never tell her story. Her entry in Wikipedia sheds some light in why this may be: The investigation by the Polícia Judiciária ended with the conviction for murder of Leonor and João Cipriano, Joana's mother and uncle.[3] The prosecution claimed that Joana was killed because she saw her mother and João Cipriano, her mother's brother, having incestuous sex,[4] in accordance with the testimony of the stepfather of Leandro Silva, the common-law husband of Leonor Cipriano.[5] Leonor Cipriano confessed to killing her daughter. Her uncle confessed to having beaten her up after which she stood "quiet on the floor". He said he cut his niece's body in small pieces, put her in a fridge box, then put her inside an old car that was taken to Spain to be crushed and burned. When he was asked if he had sexually abused his niece he said in the presence of his lawyer "I did not harm her, I only killed her".[6]



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1 hour ago
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Paul Castello



When people assume (illegally?) the identity of a public figure using full name and photograph of that person to post abusively then it makes a complete mockery of free speech.

Your actions are disgusting.

Can you explain why you have done this?

Can you also explain your clear interest in paedophilia?

There is something very disturbing about you.


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1 hour ago
in reply to Dr David Payne
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Hannah



I urge readers here that have not thus far done so, to read Dr Katerina and Arul Gaspar's statements to the police for themselves.


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1 hour ago
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SofiaCollapse



I urge readers here that have not thus far done so, to read the real files and statements to the police for themselves.


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46 minutes ago
in reply to Hannah

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Richard



Why did Amaral refuse to hold a reconstruction in May 2007, the only time when one could have helped find Madeleine McCann?

He admitted it himself in his book, using the ridiculous excuse that airspace would have had to be closed.

Amaral should be called to account for that.


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1 hour ago
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Paul Castello



Don't forget one of Amaral''s other reasons for not doing a reconstruction when the parents of Madeleine were asking him to, was that it might upset other holidaymakers. How pathetic is that? What kind of Police response is that to the case of a missing three year old child?


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1 hour ago
in reply to Richard



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Panda




I didn't think it was up to Amaral to decide , he was a co-ordinator, there would have been somebody more Senior in charge I think.. I understand the PJ
rented 5a from June 2007 for one year......there surely would have been more
to gain to have a recon soon after that. It would only have lasted a day and
evening, all the OC staff would still have been working there and I cant imagine
Planes being that much of a hindrance.


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46 minutes ago
in reply to Richard



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Bren



About the reconstruction in May 2007 when Madeleine disappeared, in Goncalo Amarals book, he clearly states that the reconstruction was not carried out because the PJ decided against it... the McCanns wanted this reconstruction.

Then in June 2007 the PJ decided to hand the apartment back to the Owner and the Ocean club who let it out to four different families. Then in July they decided to bring in the dogs..

Now think about how many people that would have or could have walked in and out of that apartment before the dogs arrived.. Even one statement in the files states that one person bled in the apartment due to a shaving cut.

The McCanns are NOT at fault for there being NO reconstruction in 2007 the PJ are.


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30 minutes ago
in reply to Panda



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Sofia



Another question, why did Amaral not want the UK police anywhere near, till 3 months later?


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45 minutes ago
in reply to Richard



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Dr David Payne



The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007:

“I give this declaration in relation to the McCANN family who are currently in Portugal. The McCANN family is composed of Gerry McCANN, his wife, Kate McCANN and their three children, Madeleine, aged 4, and Sean and Amelie, who are twins and 3 years of age. As is abundantly clear, Madeleine is not with her family presently, and has been missing for the last two weeks.

“I will start by explaining that I am married to Arul Savio Gaspar and we have two daughters. I have been married to Savio for 11 years. We met when we were working together in Exeter about 14 years ago [1993]. I am a General Practitioner as was my husband. He continues to be a General Practitioner but is also a specialist.

“To explain how we know the McCann family, I would say that my husband knows Kate, as they both attended the University of Dundee between 1987 and 1992. At the time, Kate was known by the name of Kate Healey. I met Kate and Gerry on the occasion of their wedding around 1998 in Liverpool. Both Savio and I went to the wedding because Savio was an old friend of Kate; we were both invited to the event. From what I know, Savio did not know Gerry McCann before they married. From that time on, we met as friends, probably about three times a year and we would spend the weekend together.

“I would say we got to be close friends of Gerry and Kate. I remember that in 2002 or 2003, Savio and I spent a weekend with Gerry and Kate in Devon. We maintained contact with each other by ’phone. In 2002 or 2003 Savio and I were living in the Birmingham area and the McCanns were then in Leicester. In September 2005 Savio, me and ‘A’ [name of first child] (who was around one year and a half) holidayed in Majorca, with Kate, Gerry, Madeleine (who was about 2½ years old) and the twins, Sean and Amelie, who were only a few months old. I was pregnant with ‘B’ [name of second child]. There were also other friends of Kate and Gerry with us there. There was a couple, Dave and Fiona (the Paynes, I think). I believe they were married and had a daughter around one year old called Lily. I remember Fiona was pregnant on that holiday.

“There was another couple on the vacation: C_____ and D_____, whose surname I can’t remember. They had two boys (three years and one year old respectively) whose names I don’t remember. I did not know either of these two families before this holiday. I think it was Dave Payne who organised the trip and we stayed in a big house in Majorca. We were there for one week whilst the McCanns and the Paynes stayed for two weeks. I believe C_____ and D_____ and their two sons also stayed for one week.

“It was fun during the first two or three days. Probably around the fourth or fifth day there was an incident that stuck in my mind. I say this because I have thought about the particular incident I am about to describe many times since then.

“One night, when all the adults, that is, from those couples I have mentioned above, were all sitting around on a patio outside the house where we were all staying. We had been eating and drinking ‘Berbers’.
I was sitting between Gerry and Dave and I think both were talking about Madeleine. I can’t remember the conversation in its entirety, but they seemed to be discussing a particular scenario. I remember Dave saying to Gerry something about ‘she’, meaning Madeleine, ‘would do this’.

“While he mentioned the word ‘this’, Dave was doing the action of sucking one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, while with his other hand he was doing a circle around his nipple, with a circular movement around his clothes. This was done in a provocative way. There seemed to be an explicit insinuation about what he was saying and doing. I remember being shocked by that. I always felt it was something very weird and that it was not something anyone should say or do. I looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to gauge their reactions.

“I looked around as if saying: “Did someone else hear that, or was it just me?”. The conversations stopped for a moment, then we all began conversing again. Moreover, I remember Dave doing the same thing on another occasion. In saying this, I want to mention once again that it was during a conversation in which he was talking about an imaginary scenario, although I’m not sure. He again stuck one of his fingers in and out of his mouth and with the other hand he once again drew a circle around his nipple in a provocative and sexual way. I think he was referring to the way she, that is, his daughter Lily, would behave or what she would do. I think he did this later during this same holiday, but I’m not sure.

“The only time since then that I have been in the company of Dave and Fiona was several weeks after the holidays, when Savio and I met Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona in a restaurant in Leicester. I’m sure that he said what he said and made the gestures I have related, but [the second time] it could have happened in the restaurant in Leicester, although I do think it was in Majorca that I heard Dave say and do this for the second time. After the second occasion [when he made these gestures] I took it more seriously.

“I remember thinking whether he would look at my daughter and other little girls in a different way than I or others do. I imagined that he had perhaps visited internet sites related to little children. In a word, I thought that he could be interested in child pornography on the web. During our holiday in Majorca, each parent would bath the children in turn. I was keen to stay near the bathroom if Dave was bathing the children. I remember I said to Savio to be careful and to be close by if Dave was helping to bathe the children and my daughter in particular. I did this [stay hear the bathroom if Dave was bathing the children] quite obviously because hearing what he said had troubled me and I didn’t trust him bathing ‘A’ [our first child].

“When I heard Dave say this for the second time, it reinforced what I had already been thinking concerning his thoughts about little girls. During our stay in Majorca, Dave and his wife Fiona and their daughter Lily used to take Madeleine with them for the day in order that Kate and Gerry could rest a bit and had time just for the twins. I wasn’t worried about Madeleine’s safety, because Fiona and [another female adult] were there, as well as Dave. As already referred to, I was only with Dave and Fiona on one occasion, after [we were on holiday together in] Majorca. And I have not spoken to them at all since that time. In recent, we have seen the McCann family on occasions. These occasions coincide with the children’s birthdays – a time when we all get together.

“The first time I heard the terrible news regarding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on the radio, my thoughts raced immediately to Dave. I asked Savio if Dave was also on holiday with the McCanns in Portugal, but he didn’t know. I watched TV to catch the coverage of the news and eventually discovered that Dave was there with the McCanns.

“Then I saw him on TV a few days after Madeleine disappeared. I therefore believed that he was on holiday with the McCanns in Portugal. Today, Wednesday 16 May, 2007, at 3.40pm, I have given Detective Constable Brewer a page containing 2 photographic images. I am going to reference these images as: Ref KZG/1). I consent that these may be exhibited as required [by the police]. All these photographs were taken during our holidays in Majorca. In the photographs, Dave is wearing a white T-shirt and the woman in the photograph is his wife Fiona. The man that is holding the cup of wine in the photograph is _____”.



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1 hour ago
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Paul Castello



Odd you completely neglect that this doctor said nothing about this for years, though as a doctor she should have been aware that it was her legal duty to report any concerns she had about potential child abuse. Very odd that.

Even odder is the fact that you fail to mention that in the statement given by her husband who was also present he is categorical that he did not think the conversation concerned Madeleine McCann as his wife claimed.

You have simply picked the bit of the case which fits your perverse beliefs and posted that. It does neither you, nor the cause of justice any good to pretend that the opposing views do not exist. It shows your hate up for what it really is. Just a nasty obsession.

And this is proved by your (illegal?) assumption of a public person's identity to post this abuse. Your cowardice and nastiness is very obvious.


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1 hour ago
in reply to Dr David Payne
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Dr David Payne



Blame her, blame everyone else, just like the McCanns...


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1 hour ago
in reply to Paul Castello
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Paul Castello



I blame no-one. Your jumping to that conclusion is very indicative of your mindset.

I simply scrutinise the evidence in the way that all decent people do. I don't cherrypick it for what supports my view and then ignore the rest as you do.

Please explain your strange obsession with paedophilia.
Please expain why you have (illegally?) assumed the identity of a public person to make your posts here. What kind of thrill do you get out of that disgusting behaviour?


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1 hour ago
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RichardCollapse



The person who is pretending to be a doctor is not telling the truth about the Cipriano case. Amaral was unable to produce any evidence at all of his allegations. The only evidence against Leonor Cipriano was a confession gained by torture.

The blood-curlding allegations came from the imaginations of Amaral and Cristovao, etc.

The person pretending to be a doctor has also failed to mention that the PJ themselves are now taking action against Amaral, Cristovao and the others involved in the proven torture of her while in their custody.


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1 hour ago
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Dr David Payne



How many times has Leonor Cipriano now tried, unsuccessfully of course, to get the conviction for murdering her daughter overturned? Still, she has your support. You sound like the type who proposes marriage to prisoners on death row.


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1 hour ago
in reply to Richard
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Paul Castello



What kind of mentality allows a person to assume as that abuser of the McCanns and their friends has done, the identity of someone else. Not only is it probably illegal, it is probably a sign of some kind of obsessive mental disorder.

It is people like this nasty individual who have been abusing the parents of missing Madeleine McCann for so long. They are truly horrible individuals taking these obsessive and nasty actions to demonstrate the hate they feel.

They have no understanding or desire even to understand the real nature of justice in a civilised society.

They think their own abusive and probably illegal actions are the antithesis of justice. They are an internet lynch mob and as such have no place in decent society. Stealing identities is disgusting behaviour.


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1 hour ago
in reply to Richard



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Paul Castello



The woman was tortured. How can you not see that that is wrong?

Ah but you apparently do not see it as wrong to assume (illegally?) the full identity of a public figure. So how could you be expected to understand that support is not for her directly but for the rule of justice and the courts who have convicted those responsible for that torture.

Your complete ignorance of law, and of decency is very obvious.


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51 minutes ago
in reply to Richard
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Richard



The person pretending to be a doctor has failed to mention that the original supposed 'Gaspar statement' has never been seen.

The person pretending to be a doctor has failed to mention that the supposed translated version was illicitly passed to Portuguse media.


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1 hour ago
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Dr David Payne



By a policeman with a conscience.


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1 hour ago
in reply to Richard
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Paul Castello



Oh dear. It is so peculiar when you with your (illegal?) assumed identity talk about conscience.

You have no idea what the word means. That is clear from your disgusting and probably illegal actions here.



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37 minutes ago
in reply to Richard
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Panda



I think Dr. Gaspar made her Statement at Leicester Police Station but it was
apparently not sent to Portugal until November for some reason.

One thing puzzles me, why didn't Dr Gaspar ask at the time what the finger
licking meant, she is an educated Professional woman for goodness sake,
even when it happened a second time in the U.K. she said nothing.Her
Husband saw nothing offensive in the action , nor the bathing of the
children by their Father. BTW


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37 minutes ago
in reply to Richard



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Eli



It's good that the posters referring to the Attorney General 's final report are acknowledging the fact that he has also stated that there is no evidence to support the McCann's claim that madeleine was abducted.

Clearly they must support this fact / conclusion just as they support the rest of his findings.

(Edited by author 1 hour ago)


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1 hour ago
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Paul Castello



What the attorney general stated is that there is no clear evidence at all as to what happened. Your biased interpretation of that is very obvious. Why do you do that? Afraid that the truth doesn't actually fit with your hate theories?


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38 minutes ago
in reply to Eli



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MOM OF TWOCollapse



Yet the Attourney General did state that "We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified." Please explain how Kate & Gerry McCann can be shown as innocent when he has stated this.


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36 minutes ago
in reply to Paul Castello
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Richard



The right to a fair trial is supported by any civilized human being. The right not to be tortured by the police is supported by any civilized human being. No civilized human being has any time for internet lynch mobs whose figurehead is a disgraced ex-policeman.


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1 hour ago



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Paul Castello



It is truly strange that these people rely almost exclusively for their theories on the word of a disgraced ex-cop (Goncalo Amaral) who was convicted of lying in a case where the police tortured the mother of a missing child to get a confession from her. He is still serving his sentence for that crime but they never seem to understand that he is a confirmed liar.

Whatever they find, no matter how dubious the source, to back up their hate claims about the parents of missing Madeleine, they post with glee. They have no qualms at all, no understanding of the fact that justice demands proper scrutiny of claims.

And most importantly these haters (led here it seems by somebody who thinks it is funny/clever to (illegally?) assume the full identity of a public figure) have no understanding that the McCanns are in all civilised society considered innocent as they have never even been charged of any crime, let alone convicted. Indeed the Attorney General of Portugal is clear in the final report that there is no evidence of any crime against them.

Yet these haters ignore these facts. Disgusting people.

I hope that the Panorama programme on Monday exposes them as the very ill people they really are, spending their lives abusing the McCanns in this way.



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1 hour ago
in reply to Richard
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Dr David Payne



Three police teams from the UK and Portugal supported Dr Amaral's findings ans Scotland Yard's expert criminal profiler said Gerry McCann should be investgated for homicide. Slipped your mind -again??


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56 minutes ago
in reply to Paul Castello
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Paul Castello



You have just told a lie here. There were never three police teams claiming any such thing. One problem with that profiler's comment is that unlike the Attorney General of Portugal he didn't have access to files and statements and actual evidence. Shambolic profiling without those don't you think?

Anyway the important point is that there were never three police teams claiming what you say. If you want to continue saying this you really should try to prove it, but thats not going to happen is it?

It is just the same as your horrible little lie that you are Dr. Payne. You are not and your assumption of that man's identity to post lies here shows you up as a very obsessive person.



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40 minutes ago
in reply to Richard
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MOM OF TWO



Please reply to me. Remeber Attourney General said this "We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified." regarding K & G #McCann's innocence. Personally I can't see that he is saying that Kate & Gerry McCann are innocent - in fact quite the opposite. In your own time.


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28 minutes ago
in reply to Paul Castello



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Paul Castello



I suggest you re-read that passage in context. It does not bear out what you think it does. That passage is not a comment about Kate and Gerry McCann at all or hadn't you realised that fact?


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18 minutes ago
in reply to MOM OF TWO



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MOM OF TWO



I agree Amaral was convicted of lying but there was no evidence of torture of Cipriano - She who was found guilty of butchering her daughter - as she had spotted Cipriano in an incestuous relationship with her brother. - You support these? rather than let Madeleine McCann get her justice?


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23 minutes ago
in reply to Richard
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Paul Castello



The problem is that the only evidence against her was obtained under the torture which Goncalo Amaral was convicted of lying about.

What actual evidence of her involvement in the disappearance of her daughter can you point to?


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21 minutes ago
in reply to MOM OF TWO
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Sofia



"as she had spotted Cipriano in an incestuous relationship with her brother"

This is another Gonc lie!


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18 minutes ago
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comperednaCollapse



I find Paul Castello's comments rather odd. He assumes that anyone who keeps an open mind on what happened to Madeleine, and does not parrot the approved, orthodox 'seen every day on the front pages of the tabloids' viewpoint is a McCann hater, or a weirdo in some way. I resent this somewhat hysterical attitude, and certainly hope that the police DO keep an open mind, and that they reconsider ALL the evidence. Why would they not? I'm confident that they will. It's their job. Also, surely it was Kate and Gerry McCann themselves who claimed that their daughter had been abducted by paedophiles.


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54 minutes ago
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F








I uphold the law. I do not uphold lynch mob practices. I do not uphold the practice of assuming (illegally?) the identity of a public figure to post lies on a site such as this.

My posts are not hysterical as you claim. They are reasoned and carefully composed.

I am certain that the police will be keeping an open mind and I hope that the Panorama programme reflects this fact.

It is not demonstrating an open mind though as some have done here to post one of the G statements without pointing out that the other statement categorically denies the conclusions of the first.

It is not demonstrating an open mind to rely on the conclusions of a disgraced ex-policeman who has been convicted of lying and ignore the conclusions of the Attorney General of Portugal.

It is not demonstrating an open mind to post the interim findings of a police investigation without adding the fact that these conclusions were totally superseded by further reports.

It is not demonstrating respect for law to assume (illegally?) the identity of a public figure to post such biased claims as one person has done here.

Those are the actions of people who unlike me do not believe in genuine justice. They are the actions of an internet lynch mob.


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23 minutes ago
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Eli



Dr David Payne

"Three police teams from the UK and Portugal supported Dr Amaral's findings ans Scotland Yard's expert criminal profiler said Gerry McCann should be investgated for homicide. Slipped your mind -again??"

Thats intersting Dr DP, can you enlighten us further about the expert criminal profiler pls ?



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52 minutes ago
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Paul Castello



Yes, the profiler was giving a view. Unfortunately his view was not based on all the available evidence as was the view of the Attorney General of Portugal.

As for the three police teams supporting Amarals findings that is a lie.

Just as the claim that the poster is Dr. Payne is simply a lie. He is (illegally?( assuming that identity to play a game here. It is a disgusting thing to do.


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30 minutes ago
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Patricia Thompson



So are the police files which are in the public domain, a figment of internet lynch mobs' imagination?

(Edited by author 50 minutes ago)


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50 minutes ago
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Paul Castello



No they are evidence in the case. It is a strange way of working that has allowed them to be released for public viewing. That would not happen in the UK.

But they are evidence which has not been scrutinised properly. The reason for that is that the authorities in Portugal were clear that the PJ did not discover evidence of what actually happened to Madeleine. There is lots of evidence relating to the actions of people in PDL but none of it explains the disappearance.

There was no evidence of any crime by the people they appointed as arguidos. That is the conclusion of the report.



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32 minutes ago
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Richard



Could the person pretending to be a doctor please explain why he or she approves of the torture of women in police custody?


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48 minutes ago



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MOM OF TWO



Richard. Have you not realised that there is no evidence that Cipriano was actually tortured? But why digress from the McCann case. Madeleine McCann went missing & Kate & Gerry & their friends commonly known as T7 stories didn't add up - not once but many times. Amaral was only one detective in the case - Remember now you are abusing Ricardo Paiva (after an internet sting) - Does that make you feel better to ruin yet another family? Remember if Kate & Gerry McCann & their friends hadn't decided to change their stories in 2007 then justice would have been done then. Poor Madeleine :(


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42 minutes ago
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MOM OF TWO



Could the person pretending to be "Richard" please explain why he is in support of a child killer (actually a mother) who is now serving her sentence for the murder of her daughter - & all in the name of Kate & Gerry McCann - Poor Madeleine who deserves justice not LIES. This is just in my opinion of course. :(


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27 minutes ago
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Paul Castello



Could you explain why you think Richard is pretending to be the bearer of that name?



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20 minutes ago
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SofiaCollapse



They think everyone does what they do, Paul.


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16 minutes ago
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Eli



Richard

"Could the person pretending to be a doctor please explain why he or she approves of the torture of women in police custody"

Could you please tell us who was found guilty of this supposed torture, who was found to be responsible for the act of torture?


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46 minutes ago



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Trudi



There are thousands of people who like to see a resolution to this case. By analysing all available data and forming an opinion, individuals will still never know what actually happened and publicly disagreeing with each will not provide the answer.
There are certain people who know what happened and whether the full picture will emerge remains to be seen.
I personally find a lot of what I've read shocking and disturbing.
Let's hope the review of the case by Scotland Yard brings a satisfactory conclusion and provides answers.


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44 minutes ago
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Richard



The person pretending to be a doctor is failing to mention that the only person who claims the UK police support Amaral is Amaral, the disgraced ex-policeman convicted of perjuring himself in the course of covering up the torture of a woman.


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42 minutes ago



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Richard



One assumes that *mom of two* has proof of his or her allegations; it is passing strange that she or he should bring Paiva's name into this, as no-one else has.

Who is this 'you' he or she thinks he/she is addressing? Please clarify and provide proof of these allegations.


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38 minutes ago



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MOM OF TWO



I don't need to as McCann couple supporters have done this over the last month. IMO Ricardo Paiva simply did his job. He invited Kate & Gerry McCann to his house when he thought they were innocent of Madeleine's disappearance - then Kate shared her "dream" but the tide was turning against them anyway as Lee Rainbow a crack UK profiiler had already shared his concerns regarding the couple. Remember it was the UK police who helped the PJ to their conclusions.


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34 minutes ago
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anon



poor little maddie let down by her parents and so many other people


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37 minutes ago
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Eli



Paul Castello

"What the attorney general stated is that there is no clear evidence at all as to what happened. Your biased interpretation of that is very obvious. Why do you do that? Afraid that the truth doesn't actually fit with your hate theories?"

Do tell us Paul Castello do you believe that Madeleine was abducted ?, or do believe the Attorney General was wrong ???



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37 minutes ago
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comperedna



The blurb for this programme is totally fair and balanced, which is why I have bothered to post on here. I do hope the programme itself is as good. I feel pretty angry at times for being said to be ghoulish or 'a horrible nasty individual' in such an over the top accusatory manner, by the likes of one or two posters on here (true such persons are few) purely for not making unwarranted assumptions about the case, assumptions which have been expensively put out over and over again as facts by those with their own axes to grind... and the back up of expensive libel lawyers.


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36 minutes ago
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anon



Comperedna have you not learnt by now you are not allowed a opinion unless it is what the mcanns and their leaders approve of?? it is almost cult like very worrying that they care more aboout 2 grown adults who if they were a lower class would have been jailed poor little Maddie .......

(Edited by author 32 minutes ago)


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32 minutes ago
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SofiaCollapse



Drunken police driving their daughters around too, would have been prosecuted.


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26 minutes ago
in reply to anon
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Paul Castello



The cult is of those whose dependence on the word of a convicted ex-policeman for the basis of their claims. He was convicted of false testimony and that is disgraceful behaviour for a policeman.

Why people believe this man whose personal life is a complete shambles and who has never provided any evidence to back up his thesis is quite beyond me.


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18 minutes ago
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Richard



How typical of *mom of two* to twist the Attorney Genera's words to suit his/her own agenda!

At no time did the McCanns refuse to attend a reconstruction, as is shown clearly in the PJ files.

Public Ministry of Portimao
Case Section
Case 201/07 GALGS

Dear Sir
Public prosecutor

Kate Marie Healy arguida in the case referred to above, having been notified (page 3947) expresses her availability to participate in the reconstruction of the events on the second of the dates suggested, in other words on the 15 and 16th of next May. Her husband, Gerry McCann has also already expressed his availability.

Rogério Alves

Lawyer

Why does *mom of two* not feel similar outrage at Amaral's refusal to hold a reconstruction in May 2007 when it would have most helped Madeleine McCann? This simply provides more proof of the bias of the McCann-haters.



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anon



Who can forget page 126 was it not???


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31 minutes ago
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Maureen Lang



Page 129, actually. Can't you even get that right? It has been repeated often enough. Some hopes for your reading of The Files. And what Kate wrote was nothing more than might have happened in the process of the thoughts that she had to deal with. Only a very sick puppy would misconstrue what Kate was thinking. Or do you think that this wouldn't have occurred to you if God forbid your child was ever abducted.
Oh, sorry, I forgot. You keep your children chained to your side 24/7. Presuming that your children are unfortunate enough to have you as a parent.


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15 minutes ago
in reply to anon
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Richard



Please provide proof of your rather hysterical statements about Paiva, *mom of two*. You are the person who brought his name into this, please explain why.


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29 minutes ago
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MOM OF TWO



I don't do "hysterical statements" - Remember I look at your forums too. IMO Ricardo Paiva is one who was caught in the crossfire as are others. The man who was posing as a woman (a US model) is the one that ruined him on behalf of Kate & Gerry McCann - Madeleine doesn't get a look in sadly.


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21 minutes ago
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anon



the pros mcanns abuse is foul........


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27 minutes ago
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anon



no one who supports Gerrry and Kate thinks of how the children were left crying night after night Maddie alone cried hysterical for 70 minutes.... that is child abuse


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24 minutes ago
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comperedna



The blurb for this programme is totally fair, which is why I have bothered to post on here. I do hope the programme itself is as balanced. I confess I am angry that those who try to keep an open mind as to what happened to Madeleine… and nobody writing on here can be sure… are said by one or two in this listing (such people are few I know) to be ghoulish or ‘a horrible person’. Accepting unwarranted assumptions just because they have been powerfully put out by those with an axe to grind, even if they have the backing of the backing of expensive libel lawyers, is only for the foolish, the malleable and the gullible.


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23 minutes ago
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mossieCollapse



I am astounded that those who wish to support the McCann parents can make such personal insults to those who clearly only want to find out what happened to Madeleine and not necessarily bow to the McCann mantra.

You should all note from your posts that none of you even mention her name, it is more important to hurl insults at other posters. Your sole purpose would appear to be to support the parents and so be it. But in doing so could you please spare a thought for Madeleine, remember the fear she must have felt while alone in the dark in that apartment night after night, indeed we know from her own words she awoke crying. Think also of the fear she felt when whatever happened to her happened to her.

This is not about the parents, it is about a little girl who has to be found. If that journey requires that her parents version of events are questioned then so be it. If that journey requires that people will voice dislike for those same parents, then so be it. After all they were the enablers. That fact cannot be disputed. They made their bed now they will have to lie on it, until such time as there is justice for Madeleine.



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19 minutes ago
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anon



moss dont forget Mrs Ferns statement about how a child thought to be maddie was crying hysterical for daddy one night for 70 minutes people called her a liar........


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18 minutes ago
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Paul Castello



Who is Mrs Fern? I presume you mean Mrs Fenn. But that is clearly a demonstration of the level of understanding you have of this case. In-depth, I think not.

Who called her a liar? Her evidence is part of the files I believe. It is like all the other evidence. It was part of the files. And having gone over all the files the Attorney General concluded that Kate and Gerry did not abandon their children and that there was no evidence of any crime by them.

Her statement was considered and yet there were no charges. What is your point?


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16 minutes ago
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Sofia



See you can't even get the womans name right. Its Mrs Fenn.


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15 minutes ago
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mossie



Thank you, no I have not forgotton that but I choose not to refer to it. I most certainly would not like to see Mrs Fenn, now departed, insulted as others have been here, given she is no longer with us to defend herself.


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15 minutes ago
in reply to anon
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Paul Castello



You still have not explained who called her a liar as you claimed.

Nor have you commented on the fact that even with this evidence the AG declared that the McCanns had not committed any abandonment.

What is your point about Mrs. Fenn's statement?


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10 minutes ago
in reply to mossie



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anon



OH dear the mcann mascot sabot emerges...............


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15 minutes ago



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alfie



Placing Madeleine's parents under investigation - Kate Healy and Gerald McCann as arguidos - must have marked a turning point in relations between the police in charge of the investigation and the couple. The Portuguese police officers began to consider the McCanns as potential suspects, which their British counterparts DID NOT.

Goncalo Amaral


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14 minutes ago



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MOM OF TWO



Actually UK police were the ones to make K & G McCann suspects yet UK media have entirely been supportive of the main suspects in the case. Remember there is no one else involved as even Clarence Mitchell admits that no "sighting is any more credible" than any other. Ergo - What abductor?


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8 minutes ago
in reply to alfie



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Paul Castello



Can you back that claim up? Which UK police made the parents suspects? When? How could they as it was a Portuguese case?


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6 minutes ago
in reply to MOM OF TWO



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anonCollapse



yes Mossi its very sad that people choose to call someone a liar for speaking out about a innocent child isnt it


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13 minutes ago

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anon



yes Mossi its very sad that people choose to call someone a liar for speaking out about a innocent child isnt it


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13 minutes ago



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Paul Castello



When people tell lies there is nothing wrong at all in pointing that out.

That they choose to tell lies in the case of a missing little girl is a terrible reflection of their personalities isn't it?


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8 minutes ago
in reply to anon
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Hannah



According to some here, everyone is to blame but doctors Kate and Gerry McCann, the two parents who allegedly left 3 toddlers under four years of age alone, five nights in a row, to go off up the road to the tapas bar with their friends, and said they didn't lock the patio doors 'in case of a fire.'

It's no wonder a catastrophic tragedy befell 3 year old Madeleine, if that was the McCanns idea of childcare.

(Edited by author 9 minutes ago)


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11 minutes ago
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Paul Castello



They implemented a proper checking system on their children. That was accepted by the AG who declared they had committed no crime at all.

The McCanns have admitted that they made a terrible mistake.

Why do you continue to hound them?


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9 minutes ago
in reply to Hannah



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MOM OF TWO



Yet Attourney General (not AG) stated "
We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified." Please explain how that shows K & G McCann as innocent. Personally I can't see it myself.


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7 minutes ago
in reply to Paul Castello
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Paul Castello



I recommend again that you read it in context and then you will realise it is not a comment about the McCanns. It is about those who were with them.

It is a perfect example of those criticising the McCanns based on a complete mis-interpretation of the original Portuguese.

The translation is perfectly clear even in English but is in rather stilted English which has clearly confused you.

When you rely on such poor amateur translations it is inevitable that people will struggle to understand.


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1 minute ago
in reply to MOM OF TWO



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mossie



Those children were not dogs in boarding kennels, whereby they needed to be checked to see if they had enough fresh water on a regular basis.



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6 minutes ago
in reply to Paul Castello
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anon



do you remember the story about the sick baby and the room /nappies smelling really bad???


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6 minutes ago
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Paul CastelloCollapse



No. But I tend to concentrate on evidence rather than obscure stories.

(Edited by author 3 minutes ago)


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4 minutes ago
in reply to anon

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anon



i believe it was the paynes baby daughter


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3 minutes ago
in reply to Paul Castello



comperedna



I'm a bit puzzled as to why Andy Redwood is doing this programme now, rather than when the review is finished.Surely it will limit what he is able to say.


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11 minutes ago
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Paul Castello



It will be the perfect opportunity to show the public how the review was set up, how it is progressing, the kind of contact they have had, the public assistance they may want and what kind of pressures exist in the case at present.


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5 minutes ago
in reply to comperedna



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Sofia



The thing is, how does Amaral know what hapenned in any of this. He never got off his backside once to go to Praia da Luz. Not until the McCanns had gone home, anyway.
He never met the McCann's, all he did was try and frame them, just like he did Leonor Cipriano.
Problem he had with this is, he didn't bank on Kate, not buckling.


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10 minutes ago
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Paul Castello



Well on the morning after the disappearance he was being made arguido in a criminal case himself. No wonder his mind was not on the job.

He was later convicted in that case.

Incidentally why does he say his address is currently a police station?



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6 minutes ago
in reply to Sofia



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MOM OF TWO



Poor Madeleine McCann who has YOU as her guardian. YOU who simply support her parents & ergo support all who are against them. Remember Cipriano was convicted of child murder yet you would support her rather than Madeleine McCann ? Each to his own but I don't chose to support child murderers just for a cause!. I support the child.


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1 minute ago
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anon



mom of two was it the paynes baby who was left with a upset tummy??? one of the babies was


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0 minutes ago
in reply to MOM OF TWO



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anon



what about the baby who was left with gastro/tummy bug ?? according to the parents the room smelled vile...............


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8 minutes ago



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Paul CastelloCollapse



Why are you demonstrating an obsession with fecal matter? You are sounding like a very strange person.

What point are you making in relation to the Panorama programme?


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1 minute ago
in reply to anon

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pamalam
pamalam
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Post  pamalam on Mon 23 Apr - 12:08


THAT’S ALL I GOT GUYS & GALS NEWEST ONES BELOW

The SlaveCollapse



I realised yesterday after the insanity I accidentally started on here that there was nobody manning the desks at Radio Times.
I will however ask Panorama to maintain a factual basis for this programme. The reputation Panorama has will be gone overnight if this turns out to be yet another McCann love-in.Many, many of us have read the police files.


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Just now

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john



Regarding the dogs, Eddie and Keela, the Lisbon Appeals Court decided that:

"These indications were later not corroborated by the British forensics lab that was chosen by the investigation"

"Not corroborated" says the Court...
While, in his book, Mr Amaral pretends that the conclusions of this lab were ambiguous... Which is not true !
Another example: in his book, Mr Amaral shows a picture of the parking area behind the McCann's flat, very well lit at night (supposed to demonstrate that Jane should have noticed the raised shutter).
But Mr Amaral doesn't mention in his book that a big spotlight has been installed after this disappearance on the façade of this block.
This is not a personal interpretation of facts from Mr Amaral.
These are two examples of distorsions of facts.


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1 minute ago
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anon



oh dear cleanup in isle 3????


________________________________________





Dr David Payne Collapse



Why has a comment pointing out that Helena Monteiro's team is leading the investigation for the PJ been sweot away? It is factual.


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Richard



Well said. Let's hope the Radio Times keep a close eye on this thread now, and there is no repetition of the vile hatred that was being posted previously.


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in reply to john
pamalam
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Post  Oldartform on Mon 23 Apr - 12:20

Wow - thanks Pamalam - what would we do without you Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 307691



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Post  Guest on Mon 23 Apr - 12:23

So, this Richard guy is still obsessed with "hatred" - he used that word many, many times with no qualification whatsoever.

It's extremely juvenile and shows nothing more than a void in his capacity for independent thought and logical analysis along with contempt and disregard for other points of view.

That isn't debate - it's kindergarten doctrine.
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Post  comperedna on Mon 23 Apr - 12:40

I found that string of comments about the proposed Panorama programme on 30th April, fascinating... and so I joined in. I recognized others from here too... eg Panda. :-) What was clearest of all to me was the the only two people who used intemperate language were 'Richard' and 'Paul Castello'. The last named was particularly clued in and articulate with it. Both, however, referred to those who did not agree with their own viewpoints as 'ghouls', or as being full of 'hatred'. They even sounded semi-hysterical at times, whilst accusing those disagreeing with them of being so... all very odd. They wanted the moderators (not much in evidence, though one totally innocent thing I said, I forget what, was disallowed and was left permanently 'awaiting moderation') to ban people giving other than the most orthodox tabloid viewpoints. The overwhelming number of comments... patently from all and sundry ... were sceptical and it was left to 'Richard' and 'Paul Castello' to put the TM case. They must have felt quite beleaguered. I see now that the comments section has been closed down. Well I never!
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Post  ELI on Mon 23 Apr - 12:50

Oldartform wrote:Wow - thanks Pamalam - what would we do without you Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 307691




Ditto, good reading...... don't know who that Eli is but they don't half waffle Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 23324 Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 23324 Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 23324
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Post  jd16 on Mon 23 Apr - 12:54

comperedna wrote:I found that string of comments about the proposed Panorama programme on 30th April, fascinating... and so I joined in. I recognized others from here too... eg Panda. :-) What was clearest of all to me was the the only two people who used intemperate language were 'Richard' and 'Paul Castello'. The last named was particularly clued in and articulate with it. Both, however, referred to those who did not agree with their own viewpoints as 'ghouls', or as being full of 'hatred'. They even sounded semi-hysterical at times, whilst accusing those disagreeing with them of being so... all very odd. They wanted the moderators (not much in evidence, though one totally innocent thing I said, I forget what, was disallowed and was left permanently 'awaiting moderation') to ban people giving other than the most orthodox tabloid viewpoints. The overwhelming number of comments... patently from all and sundry ... were sceptical and it was left to 'Richard' and 'Paul Castello' to put the TM case. They must have felt quite beleaguered. I see now that the comments section has been closed down. Well I never!

The BBC should be used to the hatred comments that is spouted from the pros'....Their very own employee (whom they pay) jermey vine is telling callers to seek medical help for dare questioning the truth with the facts
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Post  jd16 on Mon 23 Apr - 12:56

mossman wrote:That whole discssion further endorsed one simple thing for me. There is no credible argument to be put forward in support of the abduction theory. Not one person who spoke in the McCanns defence could state a single, simple fact that could cast doubt on the alternative to abduction. It says it all really.

There is not one single shred of evidence to support an abduction..This is a fact and says it all
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Post  Guest on Mon 23 Apr - 13:02

Nor is there any Intelligence (however Circumstantial) that supports abduction - quite the reverse, in fact.
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Post  jd16 on Mon 23 Apr - 13:08

The End Is Nigh wrote:Nor is there any Intelligence (however Circumstantial) that supports abduction - quite the reverse, in fact.

There is absolutely NOTHING anywhere to support an abduction
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Post  mumbles on Mon 23 Apr - 13:11

ELI wrote:
Oldartform wrote:Wow - thanks Pamalam - what would we do without you Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 307691




Ditto, good reading...... don't know who that Eli is but they don't half waffle Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 23324 Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 23324 Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 23324


I thought ELI made some great posts! Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 192282
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Post  jeanmonroe on Mon 23 Apr - 13:12

Five years ago this week, Madeleine McCann "disappeared" (SURELY THE BBC MEAN ABDUCTED?) from a family holiday apartment in the Algarve, Portugal. Why has the little girl, aged three when she "went missing," ( SURELY THE BBC MEAN ABDUCTED?) never been found? Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, are adamant that their daughter was abducted by a predator. Frustrated by Portuguese police and public opinion that viewed them with suspicion, Madeleine's parents persuaded prime minister David Cameron to order a review of the case. Is this new investigation, by a top unit of the Metropolitan Police, the last chance of discovering "what happened?" (SHE WAS ABDUCTED WASN'T SHE?) For the first time, the senior UK investigator tells Panorama how he is working collaboratively with Portuguese police and explains why he believes he has the best opportunity yet to help solve "the mystery" (SURELY HE MEANS HELP TO SOLVE THE IREFUTEABLE, BEYOND DOUBT, CERTAIN,... ABDUCTION?) of Madeleine McCann.

NO "MYSTERY" WHATSOEVER!
Unless of course.....................

I don't understand WHY the BBC don't use the words abducted/abduction in their pre programme release about the ABDUCTION of Madeleine McCann as her adamant parents insist.
But there again this is the same BBC that changed Jane Tanners original " I WAS CARRYING " to " HE WAS CARRYING " in their transcript of the original Panorama programme and then tried to blame it on external transscribers!



BILTON: From your sketch he appears to be carrying the child in a sort of unusual way.

JANE (TANNER): "Yeah, I (changed to HE by BBC) was carrying sort of across the body like that. I suppose in hindsight you'd probably think somebody would carry them more against the shoulder."

HiDeHo wrote:I uploaded Panorama from November 2007


11 mins 43 secs " I was carrying"

ETA:
On the original Panorama WHERE are GM and JW chatting on Tanners side of the steet, which she so helpfully drew a sketch of for the police, showing them outside gate to 5A?
Abducted............probably!



Last edited by jeanmonroe on Mon 23 Apr - 13:41; edited 6 times in total
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Post  wjk on Mon 23 Apr - 13:19

WOW! Amazing reading through all that!
Well done everyone who contributed with 100% FACTS of the case
Brilliant! Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May - Page 10 307691
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