Panorama:Madeleine:The Last Hope...Thur 3rd May

margaret wrote:

Loopdaloop wrote:

wjk wrote:

Loopdaloop wrote:

steve1295 wrote:Load of shite.Did their best to ridicule the Portuguese and GA.And that andy smirking. WHITEWASH.

I don't know how you got that!
I thought the Portugese police came off well, not only did Goncalo get to plug his book and give an answer as to why he published it which he has never had the opportunity to do in the british media, yet it showed news international being dodgy with cameron!

They also showed the dogs and confirmed that the conclusion of the case in the eyes of the pj was that MM died in the flat

The other thing is the guy from SY gave NOTHING away! nothing at all!!
If it was going to be a whitewash we would have heard some pro MM spin, We didn't.

Agree with you Loopdaloop. Posted at the same time as you.

I feel relief!

That makes three of us l dont think the macs are home and dry at all! He gave nothing away wily old goat!

Yep! He came across very well. Not what I was expecting after all the hype today.

wjk wrote:

margaret wrote:

Loopdaloop wrote:

wjk wrote:

Loopdaloop wrote:

I don't know how you got that!
I thought the Portugese police came off well, not only did Goncalo get to plug his book and give an answer as to why he published it which he has never had the opportunity to do in the british media, yet it showed news international being dodgy with cameron!

They also showed the dogs and confirmed that the conclusion of the case in the eyes of the pj was that MM died in the flat

The other thing is the guy from SY gave NOTHING away! nothing at all!!
If it was going to be a whitewash we would have heard some pro MM spin, We didn't.

Agree with you Loopdaloop. Posted at the same time as you.

I feel relief!

That makes three of us l dont think the macs are home and dry at all! He gave nothing away wily old goat!

Yep! He came across very well. Not what I was expecting after all the hype today.

He had an interesting look in his eyes as well... He's a man that is going to be unleashing a whirlwind soon!

@loopdeloop.They had to get the little dig re GA making money on his book They said that the dogs found DNA.and not cadaver.While watching Sandra speak of the mcs,one could get the impression that she was supporting the mcs.These are just some of the little irks.I got.I will watch it again with a more relaxed mind later.

steve1295 wrote:@loopdeloop.They had to get the little dig re GA making money on his book They said that the dogs found DNA.and not cadaver.While watching Sandra speak of the mcs,one could get the impression that she was supporting the mcs.These are just some of the little irks.I got.I will watch it again with a more relaxed mind later.

But thats what the media always says here about him, they repeated it and gave him the opportunity to put his side of the story. I'm happy with that as he's never had that opportunity before. Especially not prime time BBC1 !

@Loopdeloop.I do agree with that point re GA and his book.I think its just me because I wanted a bit more meat to all their points. And they left it hanging in the air.

Same for me, i am feeling much less stressed having watched the programme. To me it turned into the Cameron investigation and how they are going to have to politically very careful in the way that they are perceived by the portuguese police. Nowhere did i see any new information offered or the fact that the McCanns are home and dry.

If anything it has raised awareness of the ever-growing
number of people within Portugal and elsewhere
that are questioning the abduction story. It should also
create an interest for some to dig deeper into the case.

i think that Sandra Felgueras (apologies if spelt incorrectly) came across well. She said that the Portuguese responded to their appeal for help, and they gave help and they gave money to assist the search for Madeleine and for the fund, and then realised that they may have been responsible for their daughter's disappearance. so i think that came over well the help that the McCs were given by everyday Portuguese people, and let us not forget, Portuguese parents could have been jailed for leaving their children like the McCs did. jimo

The most important thing for me was the content. This is because it stood side by side with Andy Redwood on the same programme. He would not have agreed to have content that their investigation did not accept as factual on the same programme as him.

So all of the content, much of it will actually be quite new to a lot of people, was significant. imo.

It was quite balanced. I liked that they said it was KATE who SAID she found window open etc. Not the usual when she returned it WAS open.

Amaral came across well. It always strikes me when he speaks that he is a very soft spoken man for someone of his physical size. That might help dispel the "ogre" image some have of him.

Murat has been watching too many detective programmes with good cop bad cop - I don't think he came across all that convincingly.

My impression of their negativity towards the PJ and their handling of the investigation changed as the programme neared the end. I almost felt it was being used as a justification for the amount of money the UK now have to spend. It is hard to explain, I cannot put my finger on it just yet, but there is just something.

Good old Eddie and Keela were a huge plus. Great to see them, great to see them acknowledged as being brought in by the UK and good to hear it was they who changed the course of the investigation. The big bold PJ did not go off on a hate campaign against Kate and Gerry, they had help from British dogs.

Regarding the "dna" reference, I know some here will be sick of me saying this, but I do not think the cadaver was mentioned because it is not evidence on its own. Sorry, I promise to never mention that point again.

It is one of the only programmes on the subject I have seen where I have not felt the need to roar not true at the tv every three seconds.

wjk wrote:News Int putting pressure on D Cameron to review the case

Fascinating ...... It was reported very early on that Gerry Mc nurtured contacts with either the NOTW or the Sun or both., NOTW put up the reward., did not NOTW pay for the Huge board / advertisement that was hauled around Portugal., and of course the Sun published Kates book .....etc etc. etc..

Mossman i also wanst shouting "not true" every couple of minutes, so that says something.

Any McCann-related TV show is guaranteed to turn my stomach and this one is no exception.


I have learned two things though:

1) It was the Sun wot dunnit.

2) Dick Johnson is a mutton-headed Alan.

margaret wrote:

Loopdaloop wrote:

wjk wrote:

Loopdaloop wrote:

steve1295 wrote:Load of shite.Did their best to ridicule the Portuguese and GA.And that andy smirking. WHITEWASH.

I don't know how you got that!
I thought the Portugese police came off well, not only did Goncalo get to plug his book and give an answer as to why he published it which he has never had the opportunity to do in the british media, yet it showed news international being dodgy with cameron!

They also showed the dogs and confirmed that the conclusion of the case in the eyes of the pj was that MM died in the flat

The other thing is the guy from SY gave NOTHING away! nothing at all!!
If it was going to be a whitewash we would have heard some pro MM spin, We didn't.

Agree with you Loopdaloop. Posted at the same time as you.

I feel relief!

That makes three of us l dont think the macs are home and dry at all! He gave nothing away wily old goat!

Totally agree!!!!

mossman wrote:The most important thing for me was the content. This is because it stood side by side with Andy Redwood on the same programme. He would not have agreed to have content that their investigation did not accept as factual on the same programme as him.

So all of the content, much of it will actually be quite new to a lot of people, was significant. imo.

It was quite balanced. I liked that they said it was KATE who SAID she found window open etc. Not the usual when she returned it WAS open.

Amaral came across well. It always strikes me when he speaks that he is a very soft spoken man for someone of his physical size. That might help dispel the "ogre" image some have of him.

Murat has been watching too many detective programmes with good cop bad cop - I don't think he came across all that convincingly.

My impression of their negativity towards the PJ and their handling of the investigation changed as the programme neared the end. I almost felt it was being used as a justification for the amount of money the UK now have to spend. It is hard to explain, I cannot put my finger on it just yet, but there is just something.

Good old Eddie and Keela were a huge plus. Great to see them, great to see them acknowledged as being brought in by the UK and good to hear it was they who changed the course of the investigation. The big bold PJ did not go off on a hate campaign against Kate and Gerry, they had help from British dogs.

Regarding the "dna" reference, I know some here will be sick of me saying this, but I do not think the cadaver was mentioned because it is not evidence on its own. Sorry, I promise to never mention that point again.

It is one of the only programmes on the subject I have seen where I have not felt the need to roar not true at the tv every three seconds.

Agree with you mossman, you're right about the dogs they are an indication and although the fss didn't get the evidence to charge anyone it doesn't mean the dogs were wrong.

[/quote] Agree with you mossman, you're right about the dogs they are an indication and although the fss didn't get the evidence to charge anyone it doesn't mean the dogs were wrong.[/quote]


This is what Martin Grimes says in his report

It is my view that it is possible that the EVRD is alerting to 'a cadaver scent'
contaminant. No evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from this
alert unless it can be confirmed with corroborating evidence.

So the fact that the dog alerted has brought us all to where we are today, wanting to know who died. The dog has done his job. He will be proven correct when the "coroborating" evidence is provided. This is why I think SY will not publically talk about it and why it was left out of the programme tonight. It is not yet corroborated. Without him, we would still be trying to decide was the shutter open or closed. Very clever dog.

The other dog has a much easier job. He alerts to blood and when they search for it they find it so he is proven right straight away. He does not say who owns the blood, but that is not his job. It was FFS who mucked up not the dog. He was bang on right and remember that apartment was searched so he found samples that were not visible.

I remember reading somwhere that samples were also sent to a Laboratory in Portugal. Is there anybody anywhere that would know if this is correct ? Could be a huge point if it is true, the Portugese lab might not have been as quick to destroy the samples, they may be still there. Anyone ?

From what I remember from Amaral's book they were sent to the FSS because this would prevent any claims that the tests weren't done properly. I don't recall reading that any samples were sent to Portuguese labs.

mossman in the early 3as days it was said that samples were done in portugal ? and one sample taken to spain ? anyone else remember

mossman wrote:The most important thing for me was the content. This is because it stood side by side with Andy Redwood on the same programme. He would not have agreed to have content that their investigation did not accept as factual on the same programme as him.

So all of the content, much of it will actually be quite new to a lot of people, was significant. imo.

It was quite balanced. I liked that they said it was KATE who SAID she found window open etc. Not the usual when she returned it WAS open.

Amaral came across well. It always strikes me when he speaks that he is a very soft spoken man for someone of his physical size. That might help dispel the "ogre" image some have of him.

Murat has been watching too many detective programmes with good cop bad cop - I don't think he came across all that convincingly.

My impression of their negativity towards the PJ and their handling of the investigation changed as the programme neared the end. I almost felt it was being used as a justification for the amount of money the UK now have to spend. It is hard to explain, I cannot put my finger on it just yet, but there is just something.

Good old Eddie and Keela were a huge plus. Great to see them, great to see them acknowledged as being brought in by the UK and good to hear it was they who changed the course of the investigation. The big bold PJ did not go off on a hate campaign against Kate and Gerry, they had help from British dogs.

Regarding the "dna" reference, I know some here will be sick of me saying this, but I do not think the cadaver was mentioned because it is not evidence on its own. Sorry, I promise to never mention that point again.

It is one of the only programmes on the subject I have seen where I have not felt the need to roar not true at the tv every three seconds.

Brilliant post mossman

cass wrote:mossman in the early 3as days it was said that samples were done in portugal ? and one sample taken to spain ? anyone else remember

And some other samples taken to Birmingham (not FSS). Can't remember where I read that. It was quite early on I think.

mossman wrote:The most important thing for me was the content. This is because it stood side by side with Andy Redwood on the same programme. He would not have agreed to have content that their investigation did not accept as factual on the same programme as him.

So true!

So we can conclude that he accepts many significant facts, imo..

maive wrote:

mossman wrote:The most important thing for me was the content. This is because it stood side by side with Andy Redwood on the same programme. He would not have agreed to have content that their investigation did not accept as factual on the same programme as him.

So true!

So we can conclude that he accepts many significant facts, imo..

And he might also be a dog lover

mossman wrote:

maive wrote:

mossman wrote:The most important thing for me was the content. This is because it stood side by side with Andy Redwood on the same programme. He would not have agreed to have content that their investigation did not accept as factual on the same programme as him.

So true!

So we can conclude that he accepts many significant facts, imo..

And he might also be a dog lover

I keep my fingers crossed

fedrules wrote:From what I remember from Amaral's book they were sent to the FSS because this would prevent any claims that the tests weren't done properly. I don't recall reading that any samples were sent to Portuguese labs.

Thanks all for the inf on the dna. What is at the back of my mind is that they gathered samples and sent them to the Portugese Labs but the UK stepped in and said their Lab was to the forefront of whatever type of testing that was needed and it would also be quicker. I remember thinking there was a jar of samples just sitting somewhere in Portugal un-tested.

A job for tomorrow night to look for it.