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The missing headboard?

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The missing headboard?

Post  marxman on Tue 1 May - 21:36

After visting Textusa and Anna Andress's sites,
a new piece of evidence has been observed,
which to my knowledge hasn't been spotted
before. It concerns the headboard which is
missing from Madeleine's bed, as shown in 'fotos
5 and 6 as in.... http://www.mccannfiles.com/id155.html

It appears that the headboard is behind the pine
chest of drawers. The other headboard is attached
to the other bed near the window.

Thanks to Anna for spotting this, as I believe it
raises further questions regarding the 'staging'
of 5a.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  NoStone on Tue 1 May - 21:48

I am not doubting the relevance of this find at all. I have stayed in apts like this where the headboards are fixed to the wall!!?? (Stops them banging against it during the night!!?? ) If that is the case then it does show the original positioning of the two single beds - almost side by side with a bedside cabinet between which I think you can see a lamp sitting on. The two cots would have fitted in the remaining space in the bedroom had the beds remined in their original position but that would have left both beds clearly on view from the door if it was ajar, but less so the cots which would have been more hidden away. Just my observation on the matter!

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  marxman on Tue 1 May - 22:10

NoStone wrote:I am not doubting the relevance of this find at all. I have stayed in apts like this where the headboards are fixed to the wall!!?? (Stops them banging against it during the night!!?? ) If that is the case then it does show the original positioning of the two single beds - almost side by side with a bedside cabinet between which I think you can see a lamp sitting on. The two cots would have fitted in the remaining space in the bedroom had the beds remined in their original position but that would have left both beds clearly on view from the door if it was ajar, but less so the cots which would have been more hidden away. Just my observation on the matter!

Hi NoStone, I got to agree with you, this alteration
to the bed layout may have no relevance. It most
likely was needed in order to fit the two cots in that
room. But they really did do some serious furniture
rearranging on their one week holiday.
By all accounts, they moved soffa near window, moved
their own beds together, washed the curtains, moved
the kid's room furniture and cleaned the place of any
trace of Maddie's dna. Remarkable.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  Fern on Tue 1 May - 22:31

marxman wrote:
NoStone wrote:I am not doubting the relevance of this find at all. I have stayed in apts like this where the headboards are fixed to the wall!!?? (Stops them banging against it during the night!!?? ) If that is the case then it does show the original positioning of the two single beds - almost side by side with a bedside cabinet between which I think you can see a lamp sitting on. The two cots would have fitted in the remaining space in the bedroom had the beds remined in their original position but that would have left both beds clearly on view from the door if it was ajar, but less so the cots which would have been more hidden away. Just my observation on the matter!

Hi NoStone, I got to agree with you, this alteration
to the bed layout may have no relevance. It most
likely was needed in order to fit the two cots in that
room. But they really did do some serious furniture
rearranging on their one week holiday.
By all accounts, they moved soffa near window, moved
their own beds together, washed the curtains, moved
the kid's room furniture and cleaned the place of any
trace of Maddie's dna. Remarkable.

I don't believe it has any relevance because if the beds weren't pushed apart then where else could both cots be placed ?

With regards to the sofa, I gather it was only moved inches rather than repositioned altogether.

Given they were allocated twin beds rather than a double, I don't see anything unusual that they placed the beds together. Infact this does go some way to dispelling the belief that their marriage was in a bit of bother.

I've not encountered any proof in the files that the curtains had been washed however I could well have missed this.

Finally, there is absolutely no way in my opinion that the McCanns/Tapas group could have removed all of Madeleines DNA within 5A.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  AnnaEsse on Tue 1 May - 22:33

Another image of the room, possibly when things had been straightened out.


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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  Wintabells on Wed 2 May - 4:07



The headboards in the parental bedroom appear to have been stuck to the wall, so I would assume the same was the case in the children's room, which suggests that the single beds were indeed moved apart for some reason. I can't begin to imagine the reason, but I'm intrigued.


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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  Wintabells on Wed 2 May - 4:10

AnnaEsse wrote:Another image of the room, possibly when things had been straightened out.


But this is really weird, because if the headboards were fixed to the wall, the headboard has now been removed from its original position (ie, where the chest of drawers is) and put at the top of the single bed on the left hand side. Or am I going mad now?

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  Wintabells on Wed 2 May - 4:12



Just putting this here so we know what we're talking about.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  marxman on Wed 2 May - 5:17

Fern wrote:
marxman wrote:
NoStone wrote:I am not doubting the relevance of this find at all. I have stayed in apts like this where the headboards are fixed to the wall!!?? (Stops them banging against it during the night!!?? ) If that is the case then it does show the original positioning of the two single beds - almost side by side with a bedside cabinet between which I think you can see a lamp sitting on. The two cots would have fitted in the remaining space in the bedroom had the beds remined in their original position but that would have left both beds clearly on view from the door if it was ajar, but less so the cots which would have been more hidden away. Just my observation on the matter!

Hi NoStone, I got to agree with you, this alteration
to the bed layout may have no relevance. It most
likely was needed in order to fit the two cots in that
room. But they really did do some serious furniture
rearranging on their one week holiday.
By all accounts, they moved soffa near window, moved
their own beds together, washed the curtains, moved
the kid's room furniture and cleaned the place of any
trace of Maddie's dna. Remarkable.

I don't believe it has any relevance because if the beds weren't pushed apart then where else could both cots be placed ?

With regards to the sofa, I gather it was only moved inches rather than repositioned altogether.

Given they were allocated twin beds rather than a double, I don't see anything unusual that they placed the beds together. Infact this does go some way to dispelling the belief that their marriage was in a bit of bother.

I've not encountered any proof in the files that the curtains had been washed however I could well have missed this.

Finally, there is absolutely no way in my opinion that the McCanns/Tapas group could have removed all of Madeleines DNA within 5A.

But do you not believe that it raises questions
regarding the sleeping arrangments of the kids?
Do you, when you have 3 toddlers put them all
in the same room?
Didn't a maid report that a cot was present in
the parent's bedroom? (The McCanns denied this?)

As for the sofa, was it not pushed towards the
window thereby crunching the curtain up as shown
in the photos?

Why did Gerry have to go to UK to aquire DNA
samples? Why was there none in abundence at
5a? No hairs, no dna no trace?

As for Kate washing the curtains, this maybe
a forum myth, but it has been around for ages
and hasn't to my knowledge been debunked.


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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  marxman on Wed 2 May - 5:21

Wintabells wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:Another image of the room, possibly when things had been straightened out.


But this is really weird, because if the headboards were fixed to the wall, the headboard has now been removed from its original position (ie, where the chest of drawers is) and put at the top of the single bed on the left hand side. Or am I going mad now?

Yes Wintabells, something strange, and indeed
I maybe going as mad as you.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  NoStone on Wed 2 May - 6:06

marxman wrote:
Wintabells wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:Another image of the room, possibly when things had been straightened out.


But this is really weird, because if the headboards were fixed to the wall, the headboard has now been removed from its original position (ie, where the chest of drawers is) and put at the top of the single bed on the left hand side. Or am I going mad now?

Yes Wintabells, something strange, and indeed
I maybe going as mad as you.

Well the headboard certainly has moved. When was this picture taken do we know?

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  Chris on Wed 2 May - 6:18

NoStone wrote:
marxman wrote:
Wintabells wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:Another image of the room, possibly when things had been straightened out.


But this is really weird, because if the headboards were fixed to the wall, the headboard has now been removed from its original position (ie, where the chest of drawers is) and put at the top of the single bed on the left hand side. Or am I going mad now?

Yes Wintabells, something strange, and indeed
I maybe going as mad as you.

Well the headboard certainly has moved. When was this picture taken do we know?

Isn't it the one from the NotW when they paid the owner for access some months later. Not good quality photos from the police files but it looks like it might have been redecorated.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  NoStone on Wed 2 May - 6:31

Chris wrote:
NoStone wrote:
marxman wrote:
Wintabells wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:Another image of the room, possibly when things had been straightened out.


But this is really weird, because if the headboards were fixed to the wall, the headboard has now been removed from its original position (ie, where the chest of drawers is) and put at the top of the single bed on the left hand side. Or am I going mad now?

Yes Wintabells, something strange, and indeed
I maybe going as mad as you.

Well the headboard certainly has moved. When was this picture taken do we know?

Isn't it the one from the NotW when they paid the owner for access some months later. Not good quality photos from the police files but it looks like it might have been redecorated.

Hmmnn - probably Chris. I have never had the inclination to investigate how the headboards are fixed to the wall but it wont be rocket science - something with a couple of screws and hooks no doubt. It does make the room look bigger having the beds arranged in that way.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  mossman on Wed 2 May - 6:58

My three children are more or less of an age with the McCann children.

If I were in that apartment back then I would have moved that bed to that position so that Madeleine would have one wall in which to keep her from falling out. They are more likely to fall when open on both sides, in my experience anyway.

I am also drawn to that bed as opposed to the one under the window, I don't know why but it would have been my preferred choice for my eldest child with the cots wherever they would fit in the room.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  kitti on Wed 2 May - 7:26

Wintabells wrote:

The headboards in the parental bedroom appear to have been stuck to the wall, so I would assume the same was the case in the children's room, which suggests that the single beds were indeed moved apart for some reason. I can't begin to imagine the reason, but I'm intrigued.



Perhaps Madeleine slept in that room with GM and woke up disorientated went to the patio door mistakenly thinking it was the sitting room door.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  tigger on Wed 2 May - 7:42

This is really interesting. It seems to me that the photo posted by AnnaEsse is much, much later. It's not possible to see this very well, but it looks as if the walls have been repainted, certainly they don't look that colour in the PJ photographs.

I would think that the headboards would have been screwed to the wall. So this looks like the best stage setting they could manage.

IMO there's no advantage to having the cots in the middle of the room. The beds in their original position make more sense - easy to push together.

So it may well be part of the stage setting.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 2 May - 7:54

This is a blog post from November 2010.

Where was Maddie when the lights went out?

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/where-was-maddie-when-lights-went-out.html

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  tigger on Wed 2 May - 8:21

AnnaEsse wrote:This is a blog post from November 2010.

Where was Maddie when the lights went out?

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/where-was-maddie-when-lights-went-out.html

Yes, I wanted to add that it is likely the twins - if they slept in 5a at all - slept in one of the beds - the other bed was completely messed up and a number of mums with children that age have them tucked in a bed. Kate also slips up in interviews on this point, mentioning beds and twins together. The cots may just have been part of the staging. It may also have been the reason she had this elaborate story of sleeping in the children's room on Wednesday. It may also explain why there were no sheets in the cots, the twins may just have been transferred from the bed.

I typed the above before reading your blog! Thanks - it's no wonder the whole case is such a mess - the scenario presented by the McCanns isn't real - it is indeed a stage set for a performance.
You've just answered about twenty questions which would have taken me weeks to find.


Last edited by tigger on Wed 2 May - 8:37; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 2 May - 8:26

tigger wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:This is a blog post from November 2010.

Where was Maddie when the lights went out?

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/where-was-maddie-when-lights-went-out.html

Yes, I wanted to add that it is likely the twins - if they slept in 5a at all - slept in one of the beds - the other bed was completely messed up and a number of mums with children that age have them tucked in a bed. Kate also slips up in interviews on this point, mentioning beds and twins together. The cots may just have been part of the staging. It may also have been the reason she had this elaborate story of sleeping in the children's room on Wednesday. It may also explain why there were no sheets in the cots, the twins may just have been transferred from the bed.

I think there are too many inconsistencies for me to believe that the children and Kate and Gerry slept where they said they did. The scenes look staged to me.

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  mossman on Wed 2 May - 8:35

AnnaEsse wrote:
tigger wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:This is a blog post from November 2010.

Where was Maddie when the lights went out?

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/where-was-maddie-when-lights-went-out.html

Yes, I wanted to add that it is likely the twins - if they slept in 5a at all - slept in one of the beds - the other bed was completely messed up and a number of mums with children that age have them tucked in a bed. Kate also slips up in interviews on this point, mentioning beds and twins together. The cots may just have been part of the staging. It may also have been the reason she had this elaborate story of sleeping in the children's room on Wednesday. It may also explain why there were no sheets in the cots, the twins may just have been transferred from the bed.

I think there are too many inconsistencies for me to believe that the children and Kate and Gerry slept where they said they did. The scenes look staged to me.


Neither do I think this is how they slept, but if you were going to stage how a room looked, then this is how you would do it. You would push a bed against a wall for a small child, imo.

I think the twins were too big for those cots anyway, they would not sleep well. They are the same cots as those we are provided with on the ferry we use for holidays. By 12 months there was no way my kids would sleep in them and that would be for just one night.


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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  Wintabells on Wed 2 May - 13:53

The very fact that Gerry made a song and dance in his blogs about how the twins were now sleeping in beds makes me wonder about how true it was that they were in cots in 5a.


Day 25 - 28/05/2007 - Monday.
We have decided that for the majority of trips it will not be practicable, or fair, to take S*** and A***** with us. They have an established routine which we do not want to disrupt and will be looked after by very close family. Tonight for the first time they have gone to sleep in their own single beds, rather than cots, now that another two of our family have gone home. We were planning to turn their cots at home into beds after our 1 week holiday but obviously this has been delayed with Madeleine’s abduction. We have been in Praia da Luz for over 4 weeks and S*** and A*****’s development from toddlers to little boy and girl continues. Madeleine will really notice the difference when she sees them!

Day 26 - 29/05/2007 - Tuesday.
It has been very difficult to leave S*** and A***** but it is only for one nght and we will be back to see them before bedtime tomorrow. Trish and Sandy (Madeleine’s Godparents) who have been with us in Portugal since Day 2 are looking after them and we were surprised to hear they were tucked up in bed by 7.30pm- they must like their new beds!




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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  Fern on Wed 2 May - 19:36

marxman wrote:

But do you not believe that it raises questions
regarding the sleeping arrangments of the kids?
Do you, when you have 3 toddlers put them all
in the same room?
Didn't a maid report that a cot was present in
the parent's bedroom? (The McCanns denied this?)

As for the sofa, was it not pushed towards the
window thereby crunching the curtain up as shown
in the photos?

Why did Gerry have to go to UK to aquire DNA
samples? Why was there none in abundence at
5a? No hairs, no dna no trace?

As for Kate washing the curtains, this maybe
a forum myth, but it has been around for ages
and hasn't to my knowledge been debunked.


"But do you not believe that it raises questions regarding the sleeping arrangments of the kids?"

No


"Do you, when you have 3 toddlers put them all in the same room?"

I would have yes.


"Didn't a maid report that a cot was present in the parent's bedroom? (The McCanns denied this?)"

Correct


"As for the sofa, was it not pushed towards the window thereby crunching the curtain up as shown in the photos?"

Thats right, it was moved inches rather than re-positioned from another location within the lounge.


"Why did Gerry have to go to UK to aquire DNA samples? Why was there none in abundence at 5a? No hairs, no dna no trace?"

Rather strange isn't it that no conclusive dna was found and this is why I will haven't accepted the dogs findings as proof.


"As for Kate washing the curtains, this maybe a forum myth, but it has been around for ages and hasn't to my knowledge been debunked."

How could this 'myth' be debunked ?










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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  Fern on Wed 2 May - 19:59

marxman wrote:After visting Textusa and Anna Andress's sites,
a new piece of evidence has been observed,
which to my knowledge hasn't been spotted
before. It concerns the headboard which is
missing from Madeleine's bed, as shown in 'fotos
5 and 6 as in.... http://www.mccannfiles.com/id155.html

It appears that the headboard is behind the pine
chest of drawers. The other headboard is attached
to the other bed near the window.

Thanks to Anna for spotting this, as I believe it
raises further questions regarding the 'staging'
of 5a.

If you're a member of MCF, this thread may be of interest.

The headboard issue was discussed back in Nov 2010 (page 6/7 onwards) and its quite possible someone else spotted it prior to that too.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic10077-60.html

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  marxman on Wed 2 May - 20:21

Hi Fern, thankyou for your replies, but
I find your style too gladiatorial

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Re: The missing headboard?

Post  Wintabells on Wed 2 May - 21:57

[quote="Fern"]
marxman wrote:

But do you not believe that it raises questions
regarding the sleeping arrangments of the kids?
Do you, when you have 3 toddlers put them all
in the same room?
Didn't a maid report that a cot was present in
the parent's bedroom? (The McCanns denied this?)

As for the sofa, was it not pushed towards the
window thereby crunching the curtain up as shown
in the photos?

Why did Gerry have to go to UK to aquire DNA
samples? Why was there none in abundence at
5a? No hairs, no dna no trace?

As for Kate washing the curtains, this maybe
a forum myth, but it has been around for ages
and hasn't to my knowledge been debunked.


"But do you not believe that it raises questions regarding the sleeping arrangments of the kids?"

No

So how might you explain that the headboard seems to have been moved around but not the bed?


"Do you, when you have 3 toddlers put them all in the same room?"

I would have yes.


"Didn't a maid report that a cot was present in the parent's bedroom? (The McCanns denied this?)"

Correct

What reason can you think of to explain the McC's denial of the maid's testimony?

"As for the sofa, was it not pushed towards the window thereby crunching the curtain up as shown in the photos?"

Thats right, it was moved inches rather than re-positioned from another location within the lounge.


"Why did Gerry have to go to UK to aquire DNA samples? Why was there none in abundence at 5a? No hairs, no dna no trace?"

Rather strange isn't it that no conclusive dna was found and this is why I will haven't accepted the dogs findings as proof.

The dogs' role is to point or alert to potential evidence, not 'find' 'proof', but nevertheless, the question raised was why there wasn't an abundance of Madeleine's dna in 5a, not whether or not you accept the dogs' 'findings'.

"As for Kate washing the curtains, this maybe a forum myth, but it has been around for ages and hasn't to my knowledge been debunked."

How could this 'myth' be debunked ?
It could be debunked if, for example, one of the McC's were to state that they washed the curtains.

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Re: The missing headboard?

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