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Express 06/05/12

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  Bobsy on Sun 6 May - 17:03

AnnaEsse wrote:
mummy45 wrote:Agree one twice a day would have meant they were finsihed in 2 weeks

If he was a long term user of those meds he could easily have been prescribed enough for a few months.

Yes I agree his script could have been for 6 months, though I am sure no longer come to think of it now remembering my Mum's script for her medication. She then had to be seen by the doctor to get the next 6 month script. But I could only pick them up monthly, the cost to the NHS being one reason and the risk of stock piling and selling on another I suppose, also the risk of suicide.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  mummy45 on Sun 6 May - 17:05

I am on long term meds for a transplant. I used to get 3 months at a time. Now changed about 1 year ago to 8 weeks max. But I do get them all at once but have been on them since 1985 so that may have some bearing.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  wjk on Sun 6 May - 17:10

Bobsy wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
mummy45 wrote:Agree one twice a day would have meant they were finsihed in 2 weeks

If he was a long term user of those meds he could easily have been prescribed enough for a few months.

Yes I agree his script could have been for 6 months, though I am sure no longer come to think of it now remembering my Mum's script for her medication. She then had to be seen by the doctor to get the next 6 month script. But I could only pick them up monthly, the cost to the NHS being one reason and the risk of stock piling and selling on another I suppose, also the risk of suicide.

I'm diabetic and my script is for 8 months. But have to pick up in 2 halves. Once every 4 months.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  Bobsy on Sun 6 May - 17:11

mummy45 wrote:I am on long term meds for a transplant. I used to get 3 months at a time. Now changed about 1 year ago to 8 weeks max. But I do get them all at once but have been on them since 1985 so that may have some bearing.

Thanks for that mummy45 it is good to get correct information. And I hope you are keeping in good health.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  ann_chovey on Sun 6 May - 17:22

Wintabells wrote:Assuming the tablets were for Kate's father (and we discussed this at great length on another thread months ago - where we looked carefully at the names of the medication and established that they're all consistent with a Parkinson's diagnosis) and given they're in her father's name, dispensed in Liverpool and in the villa after the parents' visit, I see no reason to be suspicious of them. Kate's parents may well have slept in the McCanns' bedroom and then forgotten to take the tablets back to the UK with them when they returned to the UK. There were enough visitors to Portugal after that to have taken the tablets back to the UK with them to return them (by post even?) to Brian Healy, or if the PJ took them as evidence, Kate's dad would have been able to arrange to have more supplies prescribed to him to make up for the shortfall.

I assume the CEOP manual was given to Gerry McCann at one of his many meetings with them.

The holiday reading material, reviewed here, http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/books/31masl.html sounds like it was just that - a book he took with him to read on holiday (possibly a gift given to him that he never got round to reading) and doesn't necessarily have anything whatsoever to do with murder.






Those are my thoughts, anyway.

I agree with you nothing suspicious about the tablets or book at all.



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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  MaryB on Sun 6 May - 17:25

Not reading anything into it. But what a coincidence. The person who owned the apartment was called McCann (no relation) and the pharmacist was called McCann. What a lot of them there must be. Anyway I think the date is really odd. Prescribed on the 19th May. How did the tablets get to Portugal. They must have been taken back there by somebody. And why would they be if Mr Healy wasn't even there. It's really all too much for me to understand.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 6 May - 17:37

MaryB wrote:Not reading anything into it. But what a coincidence. The person who owned the apartment was called McCann (no relation) and the pharmacist was called McCann. What a lot of them there must be. Anyway I think the date is really odd. Prescribed on the 19th May. How did the tablets get to Portugal. They must have been taken back there by somebody. And why would they be if Mr Healy wasn't even there. It's really all too much for me to understand.

The date isn't that significant. If he had picked up a script for a few months' supply, all packs would have had the same date on and I think he was in PDL at the time of the video.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  Loopdaloop on Sun 6 May - 17:58

Panda wrote:http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2012/05/06/kate-mccanns-anger-over-antenna-3s-film-on-items-found-in-apartment/#comments

This is a more detailed report and shows photographs.....interesting.

Thanks for that.



A quick google of pramipexole shows that it is sedative in nature.


Mirapex
Generic Name: Pramipexole
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Print
Basics | Dosage | Side-Effects
What is Mirapex?

Mirapex is used to treat restless legs syndrome (RLS) and the signs and symptoms of Parkinson's disease.
What is the most important information I should know about Mirapex?

Mirapex may cause you to fall asleep (even if you don't feel sleepy) while you are doing daily activities such as driving, talking to other people, watching TV, or eating. Some people taking Mirapex have had car accidents because they fell asleep while driving. You could fall asleep without any warning. Do not drive a car, operate a machine, or do anything that requires you to be alert until you know how Mirapex affects you. Tell your doctor right away if you experience anything described here or if you feel sleepier than is normal for you.


AND::::::::::



Also; used for hyperactivity in children....


http://hsc.unm.edu/som/psychiatry/crcbh/docs/Archive/11-17-10.Amantadine.Article.pdf
Open-Label Amantadine in Children with
Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder
Renato Donfrancesco, M.D.,
1
Dario Calderoni, M.D.,
2
and Benedetto Vitiello, M.D.
3
ABSTRACT
Objectives: The purpose of this study was to explore the possible efficacy and tolerability of
amantadine in the treatment of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in stimulantna´ve children.
Methods: Twenty four children (5ľ13 years old) with Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of
Mental Disorders, 4th edition (DSM-IV) ADHD (4 inattentive, 2 hyperactive, and 18 combined
type) entered a 6-week open-label treatment with amantadine (50ľ150 mg) given as a single
morning dose. Parent and teacher ADHD rating scales and the parent Child Behavior Checklist (CBCL) were administered at baseline and at week 6.
Results: Twenty three subjects completed the 6-week treatment. One child dropped out at
week 2 because of persistent headache, and another 12 children reported adverse effects, most
commonly transient appetite decrease. The parent ADHD score decreased from mean 41.04 
D 6.9 at baseline to 28.9  8.7 at week 6 (p  0.001, effect size d  1.5), and the teacher ADHD
score from 35.8  9.6 to 26.2  9.5 (p  0.001, effect size d  1.0). Response rate (a 25% or greater
decline in ADHD score) was 58% based on parents and 46% based on teachers.
Conclusions: These data suggest that amantadine has acceptable acute tolerability at single
doses up to 150 mg/day and is possibly efficacious in decreasing ADHD symptoms, although
its activity appears to be more modest than that of stimulant medications.

There is absolutely no reason
for Kate to have taken her father's medications (And lots of it) on holiday with her by accident....
They appear to be very thoughtful methodical people to me, and subsequent to reading extracts from Kate's Diary her memory is evidently acutely clear about lots of things, so for her to 'accidently' take her fathers meds with her does not fit what we know of her.

(Sounds like a 'perfect' set of drugs for a child who gets out of bed in the middle the night and doesn't respond to a behaviour star chart on the fridge)



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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  ann_chovey on Sun 6 May - 18:06

Loopdaloop wrote: There is absolutely no reason for Kate to have taken her father's medications (And lots of it) on holiday with her by accident....
They appear to be very thoughtful methodical people to me, and subsequent to reading extracts from Kate's Diary her memory is evidently acutely clear about lots of things, so for her to 'accidently' take her fathers meds with her does not fit what we know of her.

(Sounds like a 'perfect' set of drugs for a child who gets out of bed in the middle the night and doesn't respond to a behaviour star chart on the fridge)

-----------------------

I think you'll find Brian Healy took his own tablets with him, first visit was 4th May for a few days, second visit 1st August for one week. Having an ongoing condition like Parkinson's disease he will prob. have collected 3/6 months supply at a time from the Liverpool pharmacy issued 19th May. The photo is from the villa where the Healys were staying with K and G.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  Loopdaloop on Sun 6 May - 18:10

ann_chovey wrote:Loopdaloop wrote: There is absolutely no reason for Kate to have taken her father's medications (And lots of it) on holiday with her by accident....
They appear to be very thoughtful methodical people to me, and subsequent to reading extracts from Kate's Diary her memory is evidently acutely clear about lots of things, so for her to 'accidently' take her fathers meds with her does not fit what we know of her.

(Sounds like a 'perfect' set of drugs for a child who gets out of bed in the middle the night and doesn't respond to a behaviour star chart on the fridge)

-----------------------

I think you'll find Brian Healy took his own tablets with him, first visit was 4th May for a few days, second visit 1st August for one week. Having an ongoing condition like Parkinson's disease he will prob. have collected 3/6 months supply at a time from the Liverpool pharmacy issued 19th May. The photo is from the villa where the Healys were staying with K and G.

I think that's very convenient .

Either way Kate did lie as one is used as a sedative and the other for hyperactive children.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  interested on Sun 6 May - 18:15

As Loopdaloop said, "Sounds like a 'perfect' set of drugs for a child who gets out of bed in the middle of the night and doesn't respond to a behavior chart on the fridge".

All the more reason for the parents a child who might have had an "accident" to cover-up in the event an autopsy was subsequently required.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 6 May - 19:16

The list of drugs the McCanns had with them for their own use is much more interesting. Perhaps someone can find it. It may be on McCann Files. Amongst those drugs was Terfenadine, an antihistamine which had already been banned in the US. Info I can find states only that Terfenadine is no longer available on prescription in the UK, but I can't find a date when this happened.

Triludan Seldane, Terfenadine, Teldane

An anti-histamine

FDA took 5 years to recognise the harm it did, and a further 8 years to ban it!

It was a top selling anti-histamine in 1990's; it caused cardiac arrhythmias, blackouts, hospitalisations and deaths. Eventually withdrawn in USA 1998.

ETA:

Gerry McCann's Arguido Statement 7th September 2007

In his Arguido interview, Gerry McCann stated that did not administer Calpol to any of their children during their vacation:-

Quote:

When questioned, he states that none of his children takes any kind of medication regularly in England.


--- When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever.



He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal.

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077700/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2013

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  margaret on Sun 6 May - 20:23

MaryB wrote:Not reading anything into it. But what a coincidence. The person who owned the apartment was called McCann (no relation) and the pharmacist was called McCann. What a lot of them there must be. Anyway I think the date is really odd. Prescribed on the 19th May. How did the tablets get to Portugal. They must have been taken back there by somebody. And why would they be if Mr Healy wasn't even there. It's really all too much for me to understand.

How strange about tha names! Anyway I've always thought those tablets were her fathers from the second villa they stayed in, l don't see anything else odd, thats not to say it isn't.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  jay2001 on Sun 6 May - 20:54

The oddest thing is that it's in the epilogue. That's what I can't understand. But then whatever they do I can't understand.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  flower on Sun 6 May - 21:01

jay2001 wrote:The oddest thing is that it's in the epilogue. That's what I can't understand. But then whatever they do I can't understand.





It is rather odd!! Hmmmmmmmmmm - why was this not mentioned in the original book?? Why does it have to be added as an Epilogue - and why now??

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 6 May - 21:03

flower wrote:
jay2001 wrote:The oddest thing is that it's in the epilogue. That's what I can't understand. But then whatever they do I can't understand.





It is rather odd!! Hmmmmmmmmmm - why was this not mentioned in the original book?? Why does it have to be added as an Epilogue - and why now??

To distract from the meds they took for personal use as well as to cover all bases?

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  MaryB on Sun 6 May - 21:17

Also would anybody leave such medications lying around when there are young children in the house. Unless they were usually locked away.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 6 May - 21:20

MaryB wrote:Also would anybody leave such medications lying around when there are young children in the house. Unless they were usually locked away.

Who would leave such powerful meds lying around? Surely they'd at least be in a high cupboard or in somebody's bag?

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  wjk on Sun 6 May - 21:22

AnnaEsse wrote:The list of drugs the McCanns had with them for their own use is much more interesting. Perhaps someone can find it. It may be on McCann Files. Amongst those drugs was Terfenadine, an antihistamine which had already been banned in the US. Info I can find states only that Terfenadine is no longer available on prescription in the UK, but I can't find a date when this happened.

Triludan Seldane, Terfenadine, Teldane

An anti-histamine

FDA took 5 years to recognise the harm it did, and a further 8 years to ban it!

It was a top selling anti-histamine in 1990's; it caused cardiac arrhythmias, blackouts, hospitalisations and deaths. Eventually withdrawn in USA 1998.

ETA:

Gerry McCann's Arguido Statement 7th September 2007

In his Arguido interview, Gerry McCann stated that did not administer Calpol to any of their children during their vacation:-

Quote:

When questioned, he states that none of his children takes any kind of medication regularly in England.


--- When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever.



He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal.

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077700/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2013
Thats really interesting. I'd only ever heard of them taking the Calpol. I thought I'd read, heard and watched everything in this case, but theres always something that pops up to make you think! Thanks Anna.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  flower on Sun 6 May - 21:29

AnnaEsse wrote:
flower wrote:
jay2001 wrote:The oddest thing is that it's in the epilogue. That's what I can't understand. But then whatever they do I can't understand.





It is rather odd!! Hmmmmmmmmmm - why was this not mentioned in the original book?? Why does it have to be added as an Epilogue - and why now??

To distract from the meds they took for personal use as well as to cover all bases?

Yes - But why was this not mentioned in the original book - it's not something that has recently come to light??

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 6 May - 21:30

wjk wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:The list of drugs the McCanns had with them for their own use is much more interesting. Perhaps someone can find it. It may be on McCann Files. Amongst those drugs was Terfenadine, an antihistamine which had already been banned in the US. Info I can find states only that Terfenadine is no longer available on prescription in the UK, but I can't find a date when this happened.

Triludan Seldane, Terfenadine, Teldane

An anti-histamine

FDA took 5 years to recognise the harm it did, and a further 8 years to ban it!

It was a top selling anti-histamine in 1990's; it caused cardiac arrhythmias, blackouts, hospitalisations and deaths. Eventually withdrawn in USA 1998.

ETA:

Gerry McCann's Arguido Statement 7th September 2007

In his Arguido interview, Gerry McCann stated that did not administer Calpol to any of their children during their vacation:-

Quote:

When questioned, he states that none of his children takes any kind of medication regularly in England.


--- When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever.



He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal.

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077700/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2013
Thats really interesting. I'd only ever heard of them taking the Calpol. I thought I'd read, heard and watched everything in this case, but theres always something that pops up to make you think! Thanks Anna.

Terfenadine was banned in the US in 1998 because of potentially fatal side effects. So, who was taking this very old style antihistamine? Someone emailed me a while ago and said that it had already been banned in the UK in 2007, but I can't find anything other than that it is now withdrawn from prescription.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  Wintabells on Sun 6 May - 21:46

I think it very unlikely that these drugs were given to children to sedate them or treat the symptoms of ADHD. They clearly belong to and were prescribed for their correct purpose to Brian Healy, who must have forgotten to take them back home with him.

I don't share the PJ's reason for suspecting sedatives were used. I saw the interview in which Brian Healy mentioned Calpol (which isn't a sedative anyway) and felt very sorry for him. He was being pressed by the journalist about whether or not M's parents used sedatives and he said no - the only thing they might give their children was Calpol, like any other parent. Amaral appears to have taken this interview and made a huge meal out of it.

But Gerry's comment about the 'abductor' slipping the twins something and FP's description of Kate checking the twins were breathing does make me wonder if sedatives of some sort were used, that night.

If something happened to M which they needed to cover up, one question is, who did they need to hide the truth from? I know I've offered this theory before, but if it was an incident which happened before the meal, some of which the twins themselves witnessed, could it be for the twins' consumption that the whole 'abduction' play was devised? Aside from their reckless and selfish decision to leave them home alone (if indeed they did) the twins' happiness and emotional welfare has very noticeably and clearly always been of paramount importance to the parents and, judging by their recent press conference, continues to seem to be so.

It may be that angry words had been exchanged, culminating in a violent parental outburst. They wouldn't want the twins associating this incident with hearing of their sister's subsequent death, not only out of concern to retain the twins' trust and love but also to prevent anything incriminating being revealed by the twins to outsiders. This could explain an urgent need to get the twins out of the picture (sedatives of some sort?) remove the patient from view for treatment (behind sofa) hide the body (in wardrobe) and make a plan, dispose of the body (Smiths' sighting) and cry abduction, so that in the morning, when the twins awoke, the answer to 'where's Madeleine?' would be, 'taken by a monster' as opposed to 'erm.... well...' The twins would absoutely believe the story, and completely forget that the night before there'd been some kind of altercation, during which M. tripped/slipped/fell just before they were ushered off to bed.

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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  Chris on Sun 6 May - 21:55

AnnaEsse wrote:
wjk wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:The list of drugs the McCanns had with them for their own use is much more interesting. Perhaps someone can find it. It may be on McCann Files. Amongst those drugs was Terfenadine, an antihistamine which had already been banned in the US. Info I can find states only that Terfenadine is no longer available on prescription in the UK, but I can't find a date when this happened.

Triludan Seldane, Terfenadine, Teldane

An anti-histamine

FDA took 5 years to recognise the harm it did, and a further 8 years to ban it!

It was a top selling anti-histamine in 1990's; it caused cardiac arrhythmias, blackouts, hospitalisations and deaths. Eventually withdrawn in USA 1998.

ETA:

Gerry McCann's Arguido Statement 7th September 2007

In his Arguido interview, Gerry McCann stated that did not administer Calpol to any of their children during their vacation:-

Quote:

When questioned, he states that none of his children takes any kind of medication regularly in England.


--- When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever.



He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal.

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077700/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2013
Thats really interesting. I'd only ever heard of them taking the Calpol. I thought I'd read, heard and watched everything in this case, but theres always something that pops up to make you think! Thanks Anna.

Terfenadine was banned in the US in 1998 because of potentially fatal side effects. So, who was taking this very old style antihistamine? Someone emailed me a while ago and said that it had already been banned in the UK in 2007, but I can't find anything other than that it is now withdrawn from prescription.

An article cited as being from the Guardian in 2003 refers to Triludan having already being withdrawn.

http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/Guardian_01July2003.htm

Chris
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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  wjk on Sun 6 May - 21:59

AnnaEsse wrote:
wjk wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:The list of drugs the McCanns had with them for their own use is much more interesting. Perhaps someone can find it. It may be on McCann Files. Amongst those drugs was Terfenadine, an antihistamine which had already been banned in the US. Info I can find states only that Terfenadine is no longer available on prescription in the UK, but I can't find a date when this happened.

Triludan Seldane, Terfenadine, Teldane

An anti-histamine

FDA took 5 years to recognise the harm it did, and a further 8 years to ban it!

It was a top selling anti-histamine in 1990's; it caused cardiac arrhythmias, blackouts, hospitalisations and deaths. Eventually withdrawn in USA 1998.

ETA:

Gerry McCann's Arguido Statement 7th September 2007

In his Arguido interview, Gerry McCann stated that did not administer Calpol to any of their children during their vacation:-

Quote:

When questioned, he states that none of his children takes any kind of medication regularly in England.


--- When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever.



He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal.

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077700/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2013
Thats really interesting. I'd only ever heard of them taking the Calpol. I thought I'd read, heard and watched everything in this case, but theres always something that pops up to make you think! Thanks Anna.

Terfenadine was banned in the US in 1998 because of potentially fatal side effects. So, who was taking this very old style antihistamine? Someone emailed me a while ago and said that it had already been banned in the UK in 2007, but I can't find anything other than that it is now withdrawn from prescription.
I've just had a quick search and can only find the same info as you, Anna.
Why would someone be using this knowing its side effects? Surely as doctors, you just wouldn't have this in 'the house' so to speak?
Very strange.

wjk
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Re: Express 06/05/12

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 6 May - 22:00

Chris wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
wjk wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:The list of drugs the McCanns had with them for their own use is much more interesting. Perhaps someone can find it. It may be on McCann Files. Amongst those drugs was Terfenadine, an antihistamine which had already been banned in the US. Info I can find states only that Terfenadine is no longer available on prescription in the UK, but I can't find a date when this happened.

Triludan Seldane, Terfenadine, Teldane

An anti-histamine

FDA took 5 years to recognise the harm it did, and a further 8 years to ban it!

It was a top selling anti-histamine in 1990's; it caused cardiac arrhythmias, blackouts, hospitalisations and deaths. Eventually withdrawn in USA 1998.

ETA:

Gerry McCann's Arguido Statement 7th September 2007

In his Arguido interview, Gerry McCann stated that did not administer Calpol to any of their children during their vacation:-

Quote:

When questioned, he states that none of his children takes any kind of medication regularly in England.


--- When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever.



He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal.

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077700/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2013
Thats really interesting. I'd only ever heard of them taking the Calpol. I thought I'd read, heard and watched everything in this case, but theres always something that pops up to make you think! Thanks Anna.

Terfenadine was banned in the US in 1998 because of potentially fatal side effects. So, who was taking this very old style antihistamine? Someone emailed me a while ago and said that it had already been banned in the UK in 2007, but I can't find anything other than that it is now withdrawn from prescription.

An article cited as being from the Guardian in 2003 refers to Triludan having already being withdrawn.

http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/Guardian_01July2003.htm

Thank you. So, what was Gerry doing with a med that had been withdrawn? And where did he get it?

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