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The Fridge

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Re: The Fridge

Post  marxman on Thu 28 Jun - 19:25

They really didn't have much luck with domestic
appliances whilst in Portugal did they? I think
Kate mentioned that their washing machine was
either broke or that she couldn't operate it, and
Gerry reported the fridge was knackered also.
Wonder is there any connection? and i'm not
referring to anything electrical.
Furthermore, they also reported their shutters
didn't operate properly.
So we have shutters, washing machine and
fridge all being reported as not operating.
Could there be a reason I wonder?

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Re: The Fridge

Post  Lioned on Thu 28 Jun - 22:49

I am just wondering about the purpose of the fridge.I know the idea is to preserve the body but my point is for what purpose ? Presumably the argument would be for later 'repatriation' as i cant see for what other reason they would want to hang on to it and the associated risks of being found with it.
Also at what point in time would the body have been placed in the fridge.As the fridge was in the second rented apartment would they have found access to that apartment before they actually moved in i wonder or do we continue to believe the body had a temporary resting place elsewhere ?

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Re: The Fridge

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Fri 29 Jun - 8:19

Good post marxman......

Don't forget the shower curtain that was missing too, wonder if that was knackered as well!!
....... could it have been used to wrap something very tightly up in.

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Re: The Fridge

Post  marxman on Fri 29 Jun - 8:45

Lillyofthevalley wrote:Good post marxman......

Don't forget the shower curtain that was missing too, wonder if that was knackered as well!!
....... could it have been used to wrap something very tightly up in.

Indeed, things really did go astray, lost or knackered.
So we have, broken shutters, faulty washing machine,
knackered fridge, lost shower curtain and missing blue
bag. Is there a common thread to all these items going
astray? Can't just be bad luck, can it?

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Re: The Fridge

Post  kathybelle on Fri 29 Jun - 8:57

Lioned wrote:I am just wondering about the purpose of the fridge.I know the idea is to preserve the body but my point is for what purpose ? Presumably the argument would be for later 'repatriation' as i cant see for what other reason they would want to hang on to it and the associated risks of being found with it.
Also at what point in time would the body have been placed in the fridge.As the fridge was in the second rented apartment would they have found access to that apartment before they actually moved in i wonder or do we continue to believe the body had a temporary resting place elsewhere ?

Good Morning Lioned.

Do you think Madeleine's body could have been stored in the church, where the McCanns were given the key to "pray" 24/7?

In my opinion, whatever happened to Madeleine, has got to have happened have happened shortly after she arrived back to the apartment from the creche, to give the McCanns and at least one helper (David Payne?) sort out arrangements for removing her body. The McCanns could have contacted the Priest. They could have told him, what he has said he will take to his grave, then made arrangements to move her into part of the church were the Priest was the only person who had access to. The Priest could have given the McCanns the key, to enable them to visit Madeleine, once she had been moved into the church.

Madeleine's body could have been placed into the blue holdall and David Payne could have taken her into the church. No one would have batted an eyelid if they saw him walk into the church carrying a blue holdall, because at that time Madeleine had not been reported missing, so there were no press and no police officers hanging around.

The Priest could have met David Payne at the church, so there would be no need for the key to be used and taken Payne down to the crypt along with Madeleine's body.

I haven't quite worked out how and why Madeleine's body could have been taken from the church, if this is what happened and placed in the fridge. If Madeleine's body was in the church, it would have made sense for the body to remain hidden in the church, somewhere were the police weren't likely to search for Madeleine.

If I am 100% wrong about the church being used to temporary or permanently store Madeleine's body, then Madeleine would have to be moved somewhere else, where the police weren't likely to search for her. Regarding the fridge, was that not a dangerous place to store Madeleine, because there was a chance that the police would search all the empty apartments for her.

In my opinion, the Priest gave the biggest clue of all, that the McCanns took part in something that ended Madeleine's life, when he said he would take what they told him to his grave.




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Re: The Fridge

Post  kathybelle on Fri 29 Jun - 9:18

marxman wrote:
Lillyofthevalley wrote:Good post marxman......

Don't forget the shower curtain that was missing too, wonder if that was knackered as well!!
....... could it have been used to wrap something very tightly up in.

Indeed, things really did go astray, lost or knackered.
So we have, broken shutters, faulty washing machine,
knackered fridge, lost shower curtain and missing blue
bag. Is there a common thread to all these items going
astray? Can't just be bad luck, can it?

Good morning marxman


Well said Now we have the so called review to add to the mix. In my opinion and I really hope I am wrong, the review is not a review, it is an excercise that is taking place for the sole purpose of exonerating the McCanns and making sure the ones in the Portuguese and UK Government, who helped the McCanns escape justice, are never brought to justice.

In my opinion, If there was a review taking place, the PJ and Scotland Yard, would have reached their conclusion by now.

If I could put a bet on the review concluding with the exoneration of the McCanns and the case being closed, I would. I've never won more than a £10 on the lottery and I have never won the pools, so the odds are I would lose my bet on the conclusion of the review, which would make me very happy.

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Re: The Fridge

Post  marxman on Fri 29 Jun - 10:19

kathybelle wrote:
marxman wrote:
Lillyofthevalley wrote:Good post marxman......

Don't forget the shower curtain that was missing too, wonder if that was knackered as well!!
....... could it have been used to wrap something very tightly up in.

Indeed, things really did go astray, lost or knackered.
So we have, broken shutters, faulty washing machine,
knackered fridge, lost shower curtain and missing blue
bag. Is there a common thread to all these items going
astray? Can't just be bad luck, can it?

Good morning marxman


Well said Now we have the so called review to add to the mix. In my opinion and I really hope I am wrong, the review is not a review, it is an excercise that is taking place for the sole purpose of exonerating the McCanns and making sure the ones in the Portuguese and UK Government, who helped the McCanns escape justice, are never brought to justice.

In my opinion, If there was a review taking place, the PJ and Scotland Yard, would have reached their conclusion by now.

If I could put a bet on the review concluding with the exoneration of the McCanns and the case being closed, I would. I've never won more than a £10 on the lottery and I have never won the pools, so the odds are I would lose my bet on the conclusion of the review, which would make me very happy.

Hi Kathybelle, as an eternal optimist, I tend to
think that this 'review' is all about finding a
political and diplomatic solution to the McCann
Affair. And as you say, the criminal part has most
likely reached its conclusion and is now awaiting
a formulation of how to proceed from a political
and diplomatic perspective.
I don't think this case can be covered up, or made
to go away because the whole world is watching.
Many European countries have had access to a
more balanced media and also GA's books. The
internet has played a major part so it appears
unlikely that any British government can conjur
up a solution which would undermine the sovereign
relationships within Europe.
I say this, because in future, if similiar cases occurred
within the territories of Europe, would it be appropriate
for any country's government to detend their nationals
by undermining the outcome of a host's judicial powers?
My only hope is, that as injustice can occur in the blink
of an eye, justice takes whatever time it requires to
open all eyes so all can see.

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Re: The Fridge

Post  Panda on Fri 29 Jun - 11:04



Morning Kathybelle

It's hard to know what could have happened , the Portugese think Madeleiene's body was thrown from nearby cliffs into the Sea. With regard to Fr.
Patecho, maybe he felt betrayed when the McCanns were made aguidos, I doubt he would have helped them hide Madeleilines body. The Fridge broke
down when they were in the Villa , not 5a.....not sure about the Washing Machine, I seem to remember the shutter being repaired and of course the
Blue Bag is a mystery. Certainly, if Madeleine did die in 5a her body would have to be disposed of quickly even if it was well hidden. We know David
Payne and Oldfield searched for Madeleine together, so they say, do we know who Gerry searched with? What if Madeleine was hidden in the Blue bag
in the garden and Gerry slips out and walks to the Cliffs, they are apparently not far away and he is fit.

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Re: The Fridge

Post  mossman on Fri 29 Jun - 12:09

Panda wrote:

Morning Kathybelle

It's hard to know what could have happened , the Portugese think Madeleiene's body was thrown from nearby cliffs into the Sea. With regard to Fr.
Patecho, maybe he felt betrayed when the McCanns were made aguidos, I doubt he would have helped them hide Madeleilines body. The Fridge broke
down when they were in the Villa , not 5a.....not sure about the Washing Machine, I seem to remember the shutter being repaired and of course the
Blue Bag is a mystery. Certainly, if Madeleine did die in 5a her body would have to be disposed of quickly even if it was well hidden. We know David
Payne and Oldfield searched for Madeleine together, so they say, do we know who Gerry searched with? What if Madeleine was hidden in the Blue bag
in the garden and Gerry slips out and walks to the Cliffs, they are apparently not far away and he is fit.

I think Payne also states in his rogatory statement he searched alone, down on the beach.

......I did a sweep of the err the pool err and the area you know immediately around err the Ocean Club, then met up with Matt and err Russell and you know I remember saying right what, you know, what we gonna do and Matt was saying right we’ve gotta try and be you know systematic here err you know, right if you, you want to go off in that area and I’ll go down to the Ocean Club reception and you know ask them to call the Police and so you know I, I started venturing up towards the err Millennium where we’d eaten and it was just so quiet and there was nothing going on that way and I just thought oh you know, and I again I was just building up hope that she’d ran off err you know I actually went on a search and I went down past the Supermarket, I went down towards the err seafront, you know went along the whole length of the err beach looking under you know err beach huts and etcetera, just you know and shouting Madeleine, any people that we saw we explained, but also in the melee there was err other people err sorry going back to the apartment so was popping in just to you know, to see what’s happening, had the Police arrived err you know just to see who was, you know, thinking that some, you know, body would take charge of the situation and err Mark Warner .......


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Re: The Fridge

Post  kathybelle on Fri 29 Jun - 19:15

Panda wrote:

Morning Kathybelle

It's hard to know what could have happened , the Portugese think Madeleiene's body was thrown from nearby cliffs into the Sea. With regard to Fr.
Patecho, maybe he felt betrayed when the McCanns were made aguidos, I doubt he would have helped them hide Madeleilines body. The Fridge broke
down when they were in the Villa , not 5a.....not sure about the Washing Machine, I seem to remember the shutter being repaired and of course the
Blue Bag is a mystery. Certainly, if Madeleine did die in 5a her body would have to be disposed of quickly even if it was well hidden. We know David
Payne and Oldfield searched for Madeleine together, so they say, do we know who Gerry searched with? What if Madeleine was hidden in the Blue bag
in the garden and Gerry slips out and walks to the Cliffs, they are apparently not far away and he is fit.

Hi Panda

Unless I've dreamt this, I'm sure I read that the McCanns and their friends went straight to the McCanns apartment after Kate raised the alarm, to sort out their timelines using the blank pages of one of Madeleine's books. The police were only called at 22:40hrs and by the time they arrived at 23:00hrs, the timelines had been sorted out. the McCanns had made all the phonecalls apart from the Priest, that they deemed necessary and the crime scene had been trampled all over by the McCanns and their friends. So if Payne and Oldfield did search, they couldn't have searched for very long.

Regarding Gerry searching for Madeleine. Did I misconstrue Kate's words when I heard her say " For the first 48hrs, we were completely nonfunctioning, then we got strength from somewhere. It might not be physically searching for Madeleine, but we have been very busy doing other things in our own way find her." Was I wrong when I thought Kate meant, she and Gerry hadn't searched for Madeleine at all? According to Goncalo Amaral, the McCanns didn't search for Madeleine and this is what made him suspect that all was not as the McCanns said it was.

I wonder when the McCanns became completely nonfunctioning, because they seemed to be functioning very well, when they made all those phonecalls. In fact when the police arrived, the McCanns had the presence of mind to put on an act of grieving, for them, which would have won them an Oscar, if they had been film stars. Their act didn't fool the police for one minute, in fact this was one of the reasons why the police suspected them.

Part of the report that Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida, was sending to the Coordinator of Criminal Investigations, said that the McCanns and their friends, lied from day one. I am in complete agreement with C.I. Almeida and because the lot of them have changed their stories, I don't believe any of them searched for Madeleine. I also believe that the Tapas group except maybe Diane Webster, all knew exactly what happened to Madeleine and if she was dead or alive.

If the Tapas group didn't know what happened to Madeleine, the majority of the group including one of the McCanns, would have been searching all night long, while the remainder, looked after the McCanns children and the children of the group, in one apartment. Timelines and phonecalls would have been the last thing on the minds of the McCanns and their pals.

I'm only thinking how I would behave, if one or both of my two children ever went missing.


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Re: The Fridge

Post  Fern on Fri 29 Jun - 19:36

Panda wrote:

Morning Kathybelle

It's hard to know what could have happened , the Portugese think Madeleiene's body was thrown from nearby cliffs into the Sea. With regard to Fr.
Patecho, maybe he felt betrayed when the McCanns were made aguidos, I doubt he would have helped them hide Madeleilines body. The Fridge broke
down when they were in the Villa , not 5a.....not sure about the Washing Machine, I seem to remember the shutter being repaired and of course the
Blue Bag is a mystery. Certainly, if Madeleine did die in 5a her body would have to be disposed of quickly even if it was well hidden. We know David
Payne and Oldfield searched for Madeleine together, so they say, do we know who Gerry searched with? What if Madeleine was hidden in the Blue bag
in the garden and Gerry slips out and walks to the Cliffs, they are apparently not far away and he is fit.

Evening Panda,

A month or so ago I can recall reading an article written by Jo Morais on Facebook with regards to planes/helicopters using infrared equipement within the first week or so and this apparantly would also have detected earth that had recently moved ie landslides. A sweep was done of Praia and the surrounding area without any results however I doubt very much this equipment would have detected anything deep under water.

"Before the dogs went onto the terrain, an airplane which is equipped with temperature and infrared rays cameras made a complete ‘sweep’ of the area from the Ocean Club until the cliffs. The infrared cameras detect the existence of land shifts (in England, they have detected cadavers under cement) and the temperature cameras are used to detect changes of temperature in the earth (given the fact that decomposing bodies register more elevated temperatures).

The planes equipment, however, detected nothing out of the ordinary in Luz."

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html

Despite following this case for over 5 years, I cannot recall any mention whatsoever within the files or elsewhere of such equipment being used and the subsequent results.

With regards to the Apt 5A washing machine, in the UK the instructions are of course in English however depending on the spec ie digital display rather than manual buttons with heat settings ie 40' then it could be possible the washing machine wasn't as straight forward to use as we would think.

The shutter from what I can recall was in the parents bedroom in 5A and had been also repaired previously.

As for the blue bag, firstly I'd say the item in the wardrobe was black and secondly, I'm not convinced it was a bag anyway despite zooming in as much as possible without distortion altogether. It could be I suppose but then again, it could be a complete 'red herring' altogether. Where this originated from I'm not sure now, was it Brunty ? Having read Grimes' reports, he mentions wardrobe 'area' however nothing more specific than that. The problem with this 'bag' theory is that it was still in 5A after Madeleine was reported missing, as shown in the PJ pics taken in the early hours of the 4th May 07.

Personally I don't view the fridge breaking down as suspicious. Yes it may well have been working when the owner was present however the McCanns occupied the villa from July to Sept and white goods along with numerous other items, do breakdown eventually. I suppose at the end of the day, I honestly can't believe the McCanns would place their daughter in a fridge inside their apartment where they had frequent visits from friends and family. Its hardly the sort of thing you could simply explain away is it.




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Re: The Fridge

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