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A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

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A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  BelEddie on Wed 4 Jul - 14:50

I was visiting the Jillhaven forum again and was reading a thread entitled, " Irwins ". About halfway down the second page was the following piece. It was/is the most plausible hypothesis for this ensemble that is the T9 I have read on any MM forum.
I have CnP'ed which I hope is not against the Forum rules.
The Red highlight was done by me.
-----------------------------------

OK been holding this thought for a while but this thread seems to open it up quite nicely.

I have a feeling that this holiday was a business trip - a get together of IVF couples and their babies.

Is it possible that the 4 male Drs plus their Dr wives were involved in some sort of IVF treatment (kinda set up their own clinic without all the legalities etc) and this trip was to discuss how it was going and meet up with some of those they had already treated.

Might explain why GM said 'f off I'm not here to enjoy myself' or why KM didn't really want to go as she didn't consider it much of a holiday or a bit too risky getting everyone together.

There were certainly an awful lot of blonde 3 - 4 year olds there so we are told and an awful lot of people who all knew each other (Murat, JT, KM O'Donell all had blond daughters who all apparantly look similar)

Then you have the Irwins who it seems one of was pregnant!

Then you have GMs comment about Murat when asked if he knew him - 'no comment' which obviously means yes I do but can't tell you why.

It is said that Murat and his first wife took a long to conceive.

Lets then assume a terrible accident happened to MM and this is where the they are all connected and having to stay very quiet because they are all connected by IVF treatment (perhaps unethically).



http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3243-the-irwins


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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  tigger on Wed 4 Jul - 15:37

No, I really, really don't think so.

In a lot of European countries IVF is free - I believe it is in Britain as well under some circumstances and setting up IVF treatment in PdL - not really suitable I'd think.
The fact that there were so many blond children is just because it was a holiday resort with several creches. Many northern European children are blond to start off with and I can't see any significance in it. Would the implication be that all those little blonde children had the same genes? Some super blond donor?

Imo half the Tapas had no idea what was happening and went along with the story they were told for the sake of whatever. By now I expect they have a pretty good idea and one doesn't see a united front ever, does one? Never a photograph of a couple of the Tapas joining the brave little woman for a charity run - I certainly don't think they are at all close now.

Sorry to put such a big foot down and squashing your theory - if it's any comfort, I went into cloning ideas quite some time ago and came hopelessly unstuck. Nothing so sophisticated - I don't rate either of the McCanns very highly in the intelligence stakes.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  ann_chovey on Wed 4 Jul - 15:38

Sorry, can't see it myself. KM's friend Linda McQueen suggested the holiday might be hard work with 3 little ones.

The McCs were the only ones to undergo IVF treatment as far as I am aware and that is well documented.

I've always assumed Gerry was advised to say 'no comment' to the Murat question by Clarence, lawyer/PR speak.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  Wintabells on Wed 4 Jul - 15:47

ann_chovey wrote: Sorry, can't see it myself. KM's friend Linda McQueen suggested the holiday might be hard work with 3 little ones.

The McCs were the only ones to undergo IVF treatment as far as I am aware and that is well documented.

I've always assumed Gerry was advised to say 'no comment' to the Murat question by Clarence, lawyer/PR speak.



(00.24)

and... I believe...this was GMcC's very first attempt at saying 'no comment'.

I can't imagine it's easy as one would imagine, saying 'no comment' - and I don't think even GMcC felt comfortable with it, hence the watered down version he came up with, 'I'm not going to comment on that'.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  Bobsy on Wed 4 Jul - 16:28

Wintabells wrote:
ann_chovey wrote: Sorry, can't see it myself. KM's friend Linda McQueen suggested the holiday might be hard work with 3 little ones.

The McCs were the only ones to undergo IVF treatment as far as I am aware and that is well documented.

I've always assumed Gerry was advised to say 'no comment' to the Murat question by Clarence, lawyer/PR speak.



(00.24)

and... I believe...this was GMcC's very first attempt at saying 'no comment'.

I can't imagine it's easy as one would imagine, saying 'no comment' - and I don't think even GMcC felt comfortable with it, hence the watered down version he came up with, 'I'm not going to comment on that'.

With a face like a slapped ar$e and drags his missus away. Not a happy bunny was he?

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 4 Jul - 16:31

I think that if there was a reason for them all to be in PDL, they were possibly looking for an apartment to buy as a group, to share for the kind of holidays they seem to like: sea and sports.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  Justiceforallkids on Wed 4 Jul - 16:38

im sorry but i kinda fund thisa bit far fetched just imo why would they go to pdl to do self IVF imo if they are drs they would be able to afford ivf just my opinion

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  kathybelle on Wed 4 Jul - 16:53

tigger wrote:No, I really, really don't think so.

In a lot of European countries IVF is free - I believe it is in Britain as well under some circumstances and setting up IVF treatment in PdL - not really suitable I'd think.
The fact that there were so many blond children is just because it was a holiday resort with several creches. Many northern European children are blond to start off with and I can't see any significance in it. Would the implication be that all those little blonde children had the same genes? Some super blond donor?

Imo half the Tapas had no idea what was happening and went along with the story they were told for the sake of whatever. By now I expect they have a pretty good idea and one doesn't see a united front ever, does one? Never a photograph of a couple of the Tapas joining the brave little woman for a charity run - I certainly don't think they are at all close now.

Sorry to put such a big foot down and squashing your theory - if it's any comfort, I went into cloning ideas quite some time ago and came hopelessly unstuck. Nothing so sophisticated - I don't rate either of the McCanns very highly in the intelligence stakes.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  Badboy on Wed 4 Jul - 17:04

AnnaEsse wrote:I think that if there was a reason for them all to be in PDL, they were possibly looking for an apartment to buy as a group, to share for the kind of holidays they seem to like: sea and sports.
I HAVE THOUGHT ALONG SIMILIAR LINE MYSELF,THERE IS A CONNECTION WITH PROPERTY

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  Badboy on Wed 4 Jul - 17:06

BelEddie wrote:I was visiting the Jillhaven forum again and was reading a thread entitled, " Irwins ". About halfway down the second page was the following piece. It was/is the most plausible hypothesis for this ensemble that is the T9 I have read on any MM forum.
I have CnP'ed which I hope is not against the Forum rules.
The Red highlight was done by me.
-----------------------------------

OK been holding this thought for a while but this thread seems to open it up quite nicely.

I have a feeling that this holiday was a business trip - a get together of IVF couples and their babies.

Is it possible that the 4 male Drs plus their Dr wives were involved in some sort of IVF treatment (kinda set up their own clinic without all the legalities etc) and this trip was to discuss how it was going and meet up with some of those they had already treated.

Might explain why GM said 'f off I'm not here to enjoy myself' or why KM didn't really want to go as she didn't consider it much of a holiday or a bit too risky getting everyone together.

There were certainly an awful lot of blonde 3 - 4 year olds there so we are told and an awful lot of people who all knew each other (Murat, JT, KM O'Donell all had blond daughters who all apparantly look similar)

Then you have the Irwins who it seems one of was pregnant!

Then you have GMs comment about Murat when asked if he knew him - 'no comment' which obviously means yes I do but can't tell you why.

It is said that Murat and his first wife took a long to conceive.

Lets then assume a terrible accident happened to MM and this is where the they are all connected and having to stay very quiet because they are all connected by IVF treatment (perhaps unethically).



http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3243-the-irwins

INTERESTINGLY,ONE OF THE IRWIN'S GRANDPARENTS IS A GERAGHTY SUPPOSEDLY

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  Oldartform on Wed 4 Jul - 17:27

Badboy wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:I think that if there was a reason for them all to be in PDL, they were possibly looking for an apartment to buy as a group, to share for the kind of holidays they seem to like: sea and sports.
I HAVE THOUGHT ALONG SIMILIAR LINE MYSELF,THERE IS A CONNECTION WITH PROPERTY

Could be why Murat sped back to PdL - he was in property and setting up his own company - maybe he was tipped the wink there were potential buyers floating about.


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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 4 Jul - 17:33

Oldartform wrote:
Badboy wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:I think that if there was a reason for them all to be in PDL, they were possibly looking for an apartment to buy as a group, to share for the kind of holidays they seem to like: sea and sports.
I HAVE THOUGHT ALONG SIMILIAR LINE MYSELF,THERE IS A CONNECTION WITH PROPERTY

Could be why Murat sped back to PdL - he was in property and setting up his own company - maybe he was tipped the wink there were potential buyers floating about.


I think that could be the case, but would add that that doesn't mean that Robert Murat had known them personally.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  kathybelle on Wed 4 Jul - 17:47

I don't know why any of this group took their children on holiday with them, they appeared to be thorns in the sides of their parents I don't know how many of the group left their children unsupervised when they went out, but it appears that the grandchildren of Diane Webster were left alone some of the evenings, because her daughter brought along a baby monitor when she and her husband along with her mother, went to the Tapas Bar.

I don't understand Diane Webster wanting to join her daughter and son-in-law, while her grandchildren were left alone. I would have thought she would have told her daughter and son-in-law, that it wasn't acceptable to leave their children alone.

I know the children of the Tapas group will have no memories of this holiday, because Madeleine was the eldest of all of the children and if she was still around, she would have very little memories of the holiday. However the parents will have memories of how they took them away and dumped them in the creche during the day and if they were speaking the truth, left them unsupervised at night.

Apart from maybe 1 or 2,hrs in the evenings these parents did nothing with their children. I know the nannies from the creche did things with the children, but at the end of the day, it should have been the parents who did these things with them. The parents won't have seen their children squealing with laughter, but the nannies will.

Come to think of it, maybe the parents don't care what their children were getting up to, while they were enjoying their leisure activities. If they cared, they wouldn't have dumped them in the creche.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  cherry1 on Wed 4 Jul - 18:09

Just to throw in another possible reason for them all being there, we know they didnt appear to spend much time with the children, I believe it was commented by a member of staff that he didnt even realise they had children? Could the children have been there for a cover to make it look like a normal family holiday, I am thinking along the lines of what came out when the story first made headlines.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  margaret on Wed 4 Jul - 18:25

Erm, no. Why did you add the bit about blonde children? Lots of children are blonde nothing to do with IVF.

IVF isn't a frankenstein science, but you'd need access to equipment and drugs your ordinary hospital wouldn't have, needs to be a fertility clinic, do l think they set one up to avoid £6k of treatment? No again.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  almostgothic on Wed 4 Jul - 18:34

@ cherry1
Indeed, and Granny Webster would make it even more of a family holiday.

Always been a bit puzzled about DW - the odd-woman-out.
A generation above the rest of them and maybe not a lot in common with the the other eight - I keep wondering 'why was she there?'
As a senior woman myself I accept that she's as much entitled to a holiday as anyone else, but somehow she doesn't fit in, except of course for her familial connections.
I'm amazed that this lot didn't rope her in as group babysitter, at least for a few nights.
If the early rumour has credence she would have been ideal for doing the honours whilst the younger folks were being 'so into each other' elsewhere (cough).



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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  cherry1 on Wed 4 Jul - 18:46

That was my thinking ag, was she brought along as babysitter for some nights while the others were
otherwise involved and on the night or nights not needed could that have been because Madeleine had someone with her? - or drugged that night, was one of the reasons for the pact between the group possible that they were all drugging the children as well as a possibility that the group may also have been involved in something else which would have made it rather difficult for any of them to speak out. Rather like if one goes down they will take the others with them.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  Oldartform on Wed 4 Jul - 18:50

margaret wrote:Erm, no. Why did you add the bit about blonde children? Lots of children are blonde nothing to do with IVF.

IVF isn't a frankenstein science, but you'd need access to equipment and drugs your ordinary hospital wouldn't have, needs to be a fertility clinic, do l think they set one up to avoid £6k of treatment? No again.

I don`t think the OP was actually meaning there was a clinic there! Nothing wrong with some lateral thinking - no puzzle got solved by tunnel vision.


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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  margaret on Wed 4 Jul - 20:17

Oldartform wrote:
margaret wrote:Erm, no. Why did you add the bit about blonde children? Lots of children are blonde nothing to do with IVF.

IVF isn't a frankenstein science, but you'd need access to equipment and drugs your ordinary hospital wouldn't have, needs to be a fertility clinic, do l think they set one up to avoid £6k of treatment? No again.

I don`t think the OP was actually meaning there was a clinic there! Nothing wrong with some lateral thinking - no puzzle got solved by tunnel vision.


No l,don't mean I literally either, but £6k of treatment is an awful lot cheaper than the hassle of obtaining the equipment they'd need, it doesn't make sense.

In any case it wasn't the OPs theory l recognise that.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  Oldartform on Wed 4 Jul - 22:26

margaret wrote:
Oldartform wrote:
margaret wrote:Erm, no. Why did you add the bit about blonde children? Lots of children are blonde nothing to do with IVF.

IVF isn't a frankenstein science, but you'd need access to equipment and drugs your ordinary hospital wouldn't have, needs to be a fertility clinic, do l think they set one up to avoid £6k of treatment? No again.

I don`t think the OP was actually meaning there was a clinic there! Nothing wrong with some lateral thinking - no puzzle got solved by tunnel vision.


No l,don't mean I literally either, but £6k of treatment is an awful lot cheaper than the hassle of obtaining the equipment they'd need, it doesn't make sense.

In any case it wasn't the OPs theory l recognise that.

Margaret - I was mistaken - I thought you were ridiculing the OP`s theory. Sorry.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  tigger on Wed 4 Jul - 22:39

kathybelle wrote:I don't know why any of this group took their children on holiday with them, they appeared to be thorns in the sides of their parents I don't know how many of the group left their children unsupervised when they went out, but it appears that the grandchildren of Diane Webster were left alone some of the evenings, because her daughter brought along a baby monitor when she and her husband along with her mother, went to the Tapas Bar.

I don't understand Diane Webster wanting to join her daughter and son-in-law, while her grandchildren were left alone. I would have thought she would have told her daughter and son-in-law, that it wasn't acceptable to leave their children alone.

I know the children of the Tapas group will have no memories of this holiday, because Madeleine was the eldest of all of the children and if she was still around, she would have very little memories of the holiday. However the parents will have memories of how they took them away and dumped them in the creche during the day and if they were speaking the truth, left them unsupervised at night.

Apart from maybe 1 or 2,hrs in the evenings these parents did nothing with their children. I know the nannies from the creche did things with the children, but at the end of the day, it should have been the parents who did these things with them. The parents won't have seen their children squealing with laughter, but the nannies will.

Come to think of it, maybe the parents don't care what their children were getting up to, while they were enjoying their leisure activities. If they cared, they wouldn't have dumped them in the creche.

O now, come, come! Kate watched Sean build a sandcastle some months later - it's in the diary. See? By implication this kind of attention was lavished on all the children. Mind you, it's pretty well the only instance recorded by her, perhaps somebody told her to put it in.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  kathybelle on Wed 4 Jul - 22:55

tigger wrote:
kathybelle wrote:I don't know why any of this group took their children on holiday with them, they appeared to be thorns in the sides of their parents I don't know how many of the group left their children unsupervised when they went out, but it appears that the grandchildren of Diane Webster were left alone some of the evenings, because her daughter brought along a baby monitor when she and her husband along with her mother, went to the Tapas Bar.

I don't understand Diane Webster wanting to join her daughter and son-in-law, while her grandchildren were left alone. I would have thought she would have told her daughter and son-in-law, that it wasn't acceptable to leave their children alone.

I know the children of the Tapas group will have no memories of this holiday, because Madeleine was the eldest of all of the children and if she was still around, she would have very little memories of the holiday. However the parents will have memories of how they took them away and dumped them in the creche during the day and if they were speaking the truth, left them unsupervised at night.

Apart from maybe 1 or 2,hrs in the evenings these parents did nothing with their children. I know the nannies from the creche did things with the children, but at the end of the day, it should have been the parents who did these things with them. The parents won't have seen their children squealing with laughter, but the nannies will.

Come to think of it, maybe the parents don't care what their children were getting up to, while they were enjoying their leisure activities. If they cared, they wouldn't have dumped them in the creche.

O now, come, come! Kate watched Sean build a sandcastle some months later - it's in the diary. See? By implication this kind of attention was lavished on all the children. Mind you, it's pretty well the only instance recorded by her, perhaps somebody told her to put it in.

Wow, now I understand why Kate McCann was invited to appear on Aled Jones's "Mothering Sunday" programme.

When Sean is old enough to understand what went on in PDL, I bet he reads his mother's diary and wishes he'd dug a hole in the sand and shoved his mother in the hole.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  tanszi on Thu 5 Jul - 15:14

Hiya Kathybelle, its interesting that you mention why DW didnt have something to say abaout the children being left. It is a possibility that she did. Many years ago we visited my brother in laws house to find the front door open, lights blazing and the parents nowhere to be seen, with two children asleep in bed upstairs. We were both appalled as we had been invited to an evening meal with friends, not realising the meal wasnt at their home, but 4 doors down at the friends house. One of us waited whilst the other spoke to brother and sister in lawalong the lines of did they realise the door was open, the children were alone etc and were told yes and to mind our own bliddy business and to leave their house. So there! we werent invited again, but thats fine because the children were never left again. So some poeple do think its ok initially until the obvious is pointed out.

I dont think DW was the odd one out. I would gladly have taken my mother anywhere with me, and not to look after the children. She was great company and everyone liked her, and if she wanted she could go and do her own thing, so i dont thing the age thing runs here; and why would she babysit children outside the family??

IVF is available freely although there are lots of Fertility Clinics that seem to have longevity and are costly, so whilst i dont think that was the idea, there could be something in them all wanting to do something privately together and to look at what was involved, as for swinging, if theyre all consenting adults, and the children are well looked after i dont care where they swing, who with or where from.

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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  kathybelle on Thu 5 Jul - 17:50

tanszi wrote:Hiya Kathybelle, its interesting that you mention why DW didnt have something to say abaout the children being left. It is a possibility that she did. Many years ago we visited my brother in laws house to find the front door open, lights blazing and the parents nowhere to be seen, with two children asleep in bed upstairs. We were both appalled as we had been invited to an evening meal with friends, not realising the meal wasnt at their home, but 4 doors down at the friends house. One of us waited whilst the other spoke to brother and sister in lawalong the lines of did they realise the door was open, the children were alone etc and were told yes and to mind our own bliddy business and to leave their house. So there! we werent invited again, but thats fine because the children were never left again. So some poeple do think its ok initially until the obvious is pointed out.

I dont think DW was the odd one out. I would gladly have taken my mother anywhere with me, and not to look after the children. She was great company and everyone liked her, and if she wanted she could go and do her own thing, so i dont thing the age thing runs here; and why would she babysit children outside the family??

IVF is available freely although there are lots of Fertility Clinics that seem to have longevity and are costly, so whilst i dont think that was the idea, there could be something in them all wanting to do something privately together and to look at what was involved, as for swinging, if theyre all consenting adults, and the children are well looked after i dont care where they swing, who with or where from.

Hi Tanzi

I was meaning how could Diane Webster leave her grandchildren alone in their apartment.


If Diana Webster, had pointed out to her daughter and son-in-law, that what they were doing was dangerous and they ignored what she said, she obviously condoned what they were doing. She went out with them, knowing full well that those children were in as dangerous situation, as the McCanns children and the children of any other of the Tapas group. Those grandchildren were her flesh and blood and if her daughter and son-in-law, were prepared to leave their childen alone, then she have refused to do the same. Someone had to take responsibility for those children, and if their parents weren't going to do it then she should have taken responsibility for them.

A baby monitor that they were using, so they could hear their children cry, was as much use as a chocolate kettle, if a fire broke out, or even if they became ill.

Kate McCann's mother said she could have throttled her daughter and son-in-law, when they told her the children were alone, when Madeleine disappeared. So it looks like the McCanns spun the same fairy tale to her, that they did to the PJ and probably Gerry's family.

By the way I never suggested that Diane Webster, should have baby sat the rest of the children, however I don't know how she could bear to spend her evenings with those people, who didn't give a stuff for their childrens health and safety.

I don't have any grandchildren, but if I did and I was asked to go holiday with any or both of my children, their partners and any children they might have, as a companion to them. I would have expected the children to go out with us when we went out and I would suggest that they have a night out and I would babysit their children. If they suggested we go out without the children, leaving the children unsupervised, I would be horrified and tell them no and if it caused a family row, well so be it. I would rather that happened, than my grandchildren coming to harm, while we were out enjoying ourself.




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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

Post  LJC on Thu 5 Jul - 23:49

But we don't know how Diane Webster brought up her own children; whether she herself left them sleeping alone on holiday when they were little themselves. We must not stereotype grandmothers too much I feel. She clearly approved of what they were doing. We all know its risky but some people have an 'It will never happen to us' attitude and think the risk is worth taking. Butlins and other holiday camps have been doing it for years, in fact they probably started it and, although none of us here do it, I do accept there are a considerable number of people that do. I must add however that to do it with in a ground floor apartment which they claim was unlocked was stupid. Me personally I would never leave my children, never went to a holiday camp, never sat in the garden on a long summer's night while they slept upstairs, etc. However, many people only ever learn with hindsight. I have said before, its not the leaving of the children that baffles me, so much as the covering up and I am sure someone amongst that group is covering something up.

Turning to IVF, well I am not so convinced that Kate so badly wanted children that she took this course of action. I think she wanted a career first and foremost and then realised her biological clock was ticking rather fast. She became a mother relatively late on so that she could have the career she had worked so hard for and probably needed IVF to help nature, which is, I understand, more common amongst women who wish to start a family at a later age. I would not be at all surprised if some of the other women amongst those holiday friends had not gone down the same road - they were all mature mothers. Perhaps we are becoming so accustomed to mother's having their babies in later life now that we forget they are not really at a prime age for conceiving. I just don't buy this childless couple who for years and years yearned and yearned for children and resorted to IVF out of desperation. As medical people their careers were their first priority and as medical people they could more easily source an IVF clinic when they eventually decided to wish to start a family and as medical people their earnings would have been greater than a good many other people, making IVF more affordable to them.

Too much is made by pro-McCann supporters of Kate going to all this trouble to conceive. It was a lifestyle choice she made, in my opinion. I don't particularly have a problem with it, why shouldn't women have careers and then babies. However, all this gushing about how badly she desired to have children and she must be the best parent ever because she went through IVF treatment, well that may not necessarily be the case in my view.

LJC
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Re: A possible reason for them all being in PDL?

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