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Remembering The Dogs of 9/11

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 12 Sep - 7:42

By Elise Cooper

As the years pass and memories fade, it becomes easy to relegate 9/11 to the history books. It's been eleven years since that awful day, when three thousand Americans lost their lives. American Thinker decided to honor those who have not received much recognition -- the rescue and cadaver dogs, as well as their handlers -- by interviewing a few who worked through the debris at the Pentagon and World Trade Center (WTC).

Nona Kilgore Bauer wrote in her book, Dog Heroes of September 11th: A Tribute to America's Search and Rescue Dogs, "Without their contribution hundreds of victims' families would not have found the peace that comes with the return of a family member or beloved friend." These animals and people worked tirelessly at first to find survivors, but ultimately, they found just human remains that helped families find closure.

Throughout the book there are excerpts from the handlers that described the atmosphere as smoldering debris with deep odors, smoke, dust, and noise, having to face death all around. Bauer told American Thinker, "I realized these dogs were not recognized even though they were such an important part of the search and rescue effort. America needs to know that these were brave, brave people and animals that were truly heroes. The dogs are not working to be heroes -- just doing the job they were taught to do. However, the fact is what they found was extremely important, which makes both dogs and handlers heroes to me."



Bauer felt that the Pentagon search was a lot more organized, partly due to all the restrictions. At the Pentagon, it was quickly determined that cadaver dogs were needed as opposed to the "live-find" dogs used at the WTC. They also quickly decided to put Officer Jim Lugaila from the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department in charge. He has been a canine handler since 1988 and prefers German Shepherds because of their versatility, intelligence, stamina, and athleticism.

He described to American Thinker the atmosphere at the Pentagon: "I told the FBI, who was in charge, that they were missing a lot with their hand-sorting since cadaver dogs could find human remains the size of a dime or less for DNA purposes. I was given the job of canine commander after proving the dogs' worth. King, my German Shepherd that looked like Rin Tin Tin, came across a piece of metal that looked like a pizza pan folded in half. King went crazy. After recovering it and opening it up, a piece of a human brain was found inside. Unfortunately, non-dog people don't believe in the dog until you prove to them that the dogs can recover more."

What he implemented was teams that mostly worked eight- to ten-hour shifts, twenty minutes on, twenty minutes off. He wants Americans to understand that the dog handlers were mainly volunteers who would come to help after working a full day. What was learned from this experience was that animal decontamination is very important. Lugaila implemented procedures so that after the dogs were done searching, they would be watered down and taken to a park area where the handler and the dog could cool off. The dogs were washed and visited by a vet tech for a medical exam.

Jim minced no words when he was asked to describe the situation. "Think of taking a giant blender, filling it with pieces of ceiling, metal, pieces of flesh, pieces of clothing, paper, glass, and putting it on the highest speed possible. That is what we had to sort through to find something sometimes no bigger than a dime."

Heather Roche heads the Bay Area Recovery Canines (BARC) and was part of the Pentagon search team. She wants Americans to understand that there is a difference between "live find" dogs and cadaver dogs. Live find dogs are trained with interactive games such as hide and seek, while cadaver dogs are trained to compare odors. She noted, "The dogs use their noses, not sight, to achieve their finds and are much more successful than any human could be. After the dogs make a find, they bark, lie down at the source, and box it it in with their body."



She takes what happened at the Pentagon personally since her dad, the secretary of the Air Force on 9/11, was present. Although she was one of the lucky ones whose loved one was unhurt, she felt a personal connection because of her dad. "I found it rewarding when my dog Alley, a Labrador Retriever, found someone because that helped families with closure. I could not stop the bad things that happened, but at least I can bring closure."

Debra Tosch, currently the executive director of the National Disaster Search Dog Foundation, searched at the WTC with her dog Abby, a Labrador Retriever. What Debra likes to emphasize is that out of the despair and ruins of 9/11, there were lessons to be learned which would help in future disasters. Currently her organization is building a national training center in Southern California. The lessons learned from 9/11 will be incorporated into the training: how deep to bury objects to be found, how to make sure the dogs are able to identify someone underneath the rubble with hundreds of people around, understanding how heat is transferred through burning metal, and identifying the different odors of humans. "Humans smell differently from how other animals do, and a dead human smells different from how a live one does. Sex, race, religion does not matter. Everyone has a similar scent."

Besides finding pieces of bodies, the dogs served another purpose: therapy. Debra tells the sad story of how hard it was to see the emotions of the firefighters who lost their brothers. "When someone was found, work would stop, and I watched as the tears rolled down the firefighters' faces. I remember one firefighter who hugged Abby and buried his face in her neck after just finding out a fellow firefighter was found."

Heather wants Americans to remember that the 9/11 story is not about the dogs, but rather, "[i]t is about the victims of 9/11. The dogs do a great service, but they are just doing what they are trained to do. The heroes are those that risk their lives and have lost their lives: the 9/11 victims. I also think of those who were there at the two main sites where they did run into the flames and chaos to pull out the living and the hurt, as it was all unfolding. They are the heroes, not my dogs. I am proud of my dogs, but we aren't heroes."

Jim is proud that the dogs were credited with at least one-third recovery of the human remains. A 9/11 family interviewed by American Thinker in the past never had their son, U.S. Navy 1st class Ronald Hemenway, identified. It is believed that he is buried in a casket at Arlington Cemetery with the unidentified remains of four other victims. Jim told American Thinker, "Dogs can find human remains that have been turned into ash. However, currently there is no way to get the DNA from ash. These five people were found but can't be identified because of the major fireball at the Pentagon. I am sure that was the case in New York as well."



Jim's dog

Have the finders' lives changed since experiencing the disaster of September 11th? Heather lost Alley in 2008 to multiple myeloma, a rare blood disease. She believes that it was due to Alley being exposed at the Pentagon. She is currently training a puppy whom she named PENTA, in honor of the 9/11 victims, and whose registered name is Pentagon Remembrance.

Debra says she came away with a different outlook on life. "After seeing something that overwhelming, piles of debris and the body parts, I decided not to be stressed out over the small things in life like being stuck in a California traffic jam."

Jim was affected like everyone else there -- "not then, while we were working, but later. I don't like to go to commerative services. Certain smells will trigger my memory. I don't watch the anniversary shows. It was a very emotional experience."

All want Americans never to forget that day. They want the value of these service dogs to be recognized since the service performed is invaluable -- a large area can be covered in a short amount of time. In addition, a dog's nose can find a minuscule piece of DNA for identification, which a human can never do. Nona said it best: "From my perspective, the canine is G-d's greatest gift to mankind. Although they did what they are trained to do, they are still amazing creatures."


http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/the_dogs_of_911.html

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

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proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  Justiceforallkids on Wed 12 Sep - 8:52

They want the value of these service dogs to be recognized since the service performed is invaluable -- a large area can be covered in a short amount of time. In addition, a dog's nose can find a minuscule piece of DNA for identification, which a human can never do. Nona said it best: "From my perspective, the canine is G-d's greatest gift to mankind. Although they did what they are trained to do, they are still amazing creatures."


http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/the_dogs_of_911.html thanks to anna for highlightiing this in daily news i thouggt it was relevent here too


Last edited by Justiceforallkids on Wed 12 Sep - 9:23; edited 1 time in total

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  Guest on Wed 12 Sep - 9:11

Yes, they are remarkable. I know that to some ignorant types, the fact that the Dogs cannot be brought to Court to be questioned on their findings renders their findings invalid.

But, of course, that isn't the point. Sadly there is no point in confusing the naysayers with the facts, though.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  malena stool on Wed 12 Sep - 9:51

Absolutely right TEIN. The facts speak for themselves. In the United Kingdom, documented evidence exists from the Middle Ages showing that money was set aside in towns and villages to pay for the upkeep of bloodhounds to be used by parish constables to track down outlaws and criminals. In fact, during the reign of King Henry I, documents showing the staffing levels of the Royal Palaces refer to the appointment of a constable who, with the aid of a marshal, 'shall maintain the stables, kennels and mews, and be responsible for protecting and policing the whole court'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog

So despite what Dr Gerry and his sycophants might say, man's best friend and his superlative nose has been used by man at least as far back as the Middle Ages. Initially used for Running down felons their skills were developed across the centuries into; Search and rescue, Identifying drugs and explosives, to Discovering the presence of death. And they were good enough at doing their tasks that all police forces across the world use them.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  Justiceforallkids on Wed 12 Sep - 10:12

malena stool wrote:Absolutely right TEIN. The facts speak for themselves. In the United Kingdom, documented evidence exists from the Middle Ages showing that money was set aside in towns and villages to pay for the upkeep of bloodhounds to be used by parish constables to track down outlaws and criminals. In fact, during the reign of King Henry I, documents showing the staffing levels of the Royal Palaces refer to the appointment of a constable who, with the aid of a marshal, 'shall maintain the stables, kennels and mews, and be responsible for protecting and policing the whole court'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog

So despite what Dr Gerry and his sycophants might say, man's best friend and his superlative nose has been used by man at least as far back as the Middle Ages. Initially used for Running down felons their skills were developed across the centuries into; Search and rescue, Identifying drugs and explosives, to Discovering the presence of death. And they were good enough at doing their tasks that all police forces across the world use them.

well said IMO eddie and keela have always been used as a scapegoat for the mcanns actions pros cant accept that gerry and kate abandoned and neglected maddie and the twins or worse so they blame dogs who cant talk back

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  yask27 on Wed 12 Sep - 10:49

Malena and Justice, well said. The article has already been posted on the Amazon pages which deal with the 'book'.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  matthew on Wed 12 Sep - 14:18

Someone on websleuths(brit 1981) discredits Eddie constantly,tried to join but couldn't...i wanted to show him/her the error of their ways,not that they would take notice ,the poster discredits Eddie by saying that the dogs are search & rescue & will only find fluids,skin etc from humans & that it is decomposed because the sample has left the body... Eddie would never of shut up barking lol
Also implying Martin Grimes cues the dog to respond where he wants... an example being when he brings Eddie back to the scenic-Eddie & cvrd dogs scent a cadaver from an airbourne scent at first & then gradually find the source so a dog could run 30 yards past the cadaver scent & then come back to it,how anyone can rule out the work from these dogs in this case along with other facts we know & still support the McCanns 110%,imo can only be two things...paid or very very naive...maybe three or four lol
Imo Gerry had knowledge of the dogs success when they strongly believed Madeleine was alive when she was abducted,when he had knowledge of the dogs arrival...strongly believes,leaves a little margin to be wrong...which were not at his request...if any it would be the sniffer dogs trained to find a live person,search & rescue i believe

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  Bobsy on Wed 12 Sep - 14:34

matthew wrote:Someone on websleuths(brit 1981) discredits Eddie constantly,tried to join but couldn't...i wanted to show him/her the error of their ways,not that they would take notice ,the poster discredits Eddie by saying that the dogs are search & rescue & will only find fluids,skin etc from humans & that it is decomposed because the sample has left the body... Eddie would never of shut up barking lol
Also implying Martin Grimes cues the dog to respond where he wants... an example being when he brings Eddie back to the scenic-Eddie & cvrd dogs scent a cadaver from an airbourne scent at first & then gradually find the source so a dog could run 30 yards past the cadaver scent & then come back to it,how anyone can rule out the work from these dogs in this case along with other facts we know & still support the McCanns 110%,imo can only be two things...paid or very very naive...maybe three or four lol
Imo Gerry had knowledge of the dogs success when they strongly believed Madeleine was alive when she was abducted,when he had knowledge of the dogs arrival...strongly believes,leaves a little margin to be wrong...which were not at his request...if any it would be the sniffer dogs trained to find a live person,search & rescue i believe

Hi matthew, snipped from your post,

the poster discredits Eddie by saying that the dogs are search & rescue & will only find fluids,skin etc from humans & that it is decomposed because the sample has left the body...

Seems that this person thinks that the smell is because it has left the body as in meat/blood having an off smell. The smell of cadaverine from the body and any seepage is an entirely different smell, they obviously have never smelt it, just a piece of meat on the turn.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  kitti on Wed 12 Sep - 14:41

I would like one off them to answer just one question ...


Why were eddie and keela right in 200 cases yet supposedly wrong in this case?


I would like an intelligent answer instead off the usual ....mr grime lead the dogs to the car etc etc and the dogs got vibes from him to bark....they haven't got the brains to realise that there would off had to off been a cadaver in the vicinity to bark anyway..

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  Guest on Wed 12 Sep - 14:45

kitti wrote:I would like one of them to answer just one question ...


Why were eddie and keela right in 200 cases yet supposedly wrong in this case?


I would like an intelligent answer instead of the usual ....mr grimes led the dogs to the car etc etc and the dogs got vibes from him to bark....they haven't got the brains to realise that there would have had to have been a cadaver in the vicinity to bark anyway..




Never a truer word ..............

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  matthew on Wed 12 Sep - 15:08

Hi bobsy,imo the poster seems to work full time on discrediting Eddie so im not sure what their true knowledge is
Ive never come into contact with a dead body apart from a pre burial visit where there was no smell,these dogs smell a cadaver long before it can be obvious to a human nose that there is/has been a dead body in the vicinity

this is snipped from the link below

The smells of death are a result of the decomposition process. Minutes after a person dies, bacteria already within the body begins to decompose it. Cadaver dogs can detect a corpse at this point but humans cannot. In the following hours, the body swells from gases produced through decompistion. As the the body collapses, gas escapes, giving off a putrefying odor that can be detected by dogs and humans. Eventually, the liquids created during the decay process seep out and the body dries, producing a cheesy, musty smell that is also quite detectable. As flesh disappears and the skeleton emerges, a musty odor is emitted. Humans are unlikely to detect a corpse at this point; dogs still can.

http://blogs.funeralwise.com/dying/2009/09/05/death-dogs-could-be-replaced-by-electronic-noses/


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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  the slave on Wed 12 Sep - 16:43

There is even a theory that says that it was homo sapiens' domestication of the dog that gave him the edge over other humanoids.
Early warning system, help in hunts. But mostly their early detection of intruders/ danger.
Makes sense to me.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  matthew on Wed 12 Sep - 22:01

this is why i was trying to join websleuths

from a poster there...

the translation of the PJ report does not match Grime's original english report on the searches, so either the PJ or Grimes made a mistake, or someone has made a mistake in the translations. Grimes makes a list of the places in 5A where the dogs alert, and does not mention the wardrobe. If it is correct that the dog alerted in the wardrobe why does he not mention this when he makes the list of laert sites? Surely as he is the handler, the person trained to interpret the dogs actions we shoudl go by his report unless it completely contradicts the video, but then we should question why there is a contradiction and if there are other mistakes.
Grimes does also state that eddie is a victim reovery dog and alerts to bodily fluids that have come from living people so if the dogs alert and no body is found it is not exactly incriminating.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  Guest on Wed 12 Sep - 23:22

If Eddie and Keela are so unreliable and unscientific, why do Team McCann spend so much time and trouble trying to discredit them?

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  tigger on Thu 13 Sep - 6:56

It's also said that dogs and cats 'know' an earthquake is about to happen is due to their sense of smell. Recently it has been shown that before the initial earth movement an almost undetectable amount of gas is released.

Gerry tried to 'own' the dogs by saying they had asked for them. They didn't, as early as the night of the 3rd he mentioned that he wanted the GNR to bring dogs (I'll try and find it) but Eddie and Keela were invited by the PJ.
The McCanns had been asking for the FBI to come over, which apparently is a rather expensive luxury. (imo that was because they desperately wanted to get 'into bed' with the US Amber Alert system - Gerry's visit there hadn't resulted in any lucrative appointment) .

So since confusion is good, Gerry annexed Eddie and Keela as well by saying they had specifically asked them to come over, so that clearly means they have nothing to hide and obviously the dogs were wrong. Simples!

Except for people like us

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  tigger on Thu 13 Sep - 7:35

..and to add: some early dogs!

3/5 07
23.40 Gerry calls Trish Cameron (11.13 minutes)
"It was my younger brother Gerry distraught on the phone, breaking his heart. He said: 'Madeleine is abducted, she's been abducted'. 'They kept going back to check the kids every half hour. The restaurant was only 40 yards away. He went back at 9 o’clock to check the children. They were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut'.
Kate then went over to the two-bedroom ground-floor apartment and 'came out screaming', said Mrs. Cameron. 'The door was lying open, the window in the bedroom and the shutters had been jimmied open'. "They think someone must have come in the window and gone out of the front door with Madeleine." (timesonline 6 may)
Sandy Cameron statement: “On the night of Thursday, May 3, 2007, Patricia received a telephone call from Gerry informing us of the disappearance of Madeleine. Gerry manifested all those emotions one expects from a father who has lost a child in the circumstances. He was distraught and spoke at the same time he cried. He seemed frustrated with the slowness of the searches in Portugal, with the fact that the borders had not been closed, and with the fact that sniffer dogs were not being used. Patricia and I contacted the British Embassy to try and help in this regard.”
unquote

Certainly, by 23.40 a mere hour after the GNR had been contacted, the story was full grown and in place. Shame about those shutters - and the dogs of course.


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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  mossman on Thu 13 Sep - 9:03

I think the dogs Gerry asked for were the live scent dogs, not the EVRD. The dogs who were given a towel to track Madeleine. I bet he knows their effectiveness is short lived, live scent does not stay in the air for a long period of time. He asked for them, knowing they would find nothing. He did not bet on Eddie and Keela arriving later.

It is all very contrived, like something from a tv script, imo. Your daughter disappears and then suddenly you start looking for the FBI, heat seeking helicopters, closing borders etc etc. All of these things are what you think should happen, if you have time to sit down and go through a list of what would happen when someone disappears. It is on the tv. They are not however what would immediately spring to mind when you are in the middle of a crisis, you would run around like a headless chicken, searching, yelling at everybody to look, find, search. Who would think of the FBI for god's sake, in a sleepy holiday village on the other side of the world, in the middle of the worst time of your life ? Only Gerry McCann.


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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  tigger on Thu 13 Sep - 9:42

mossman wrote:I think the dogs Gerry asked for were the live scent dogs, not the EVRD. The dogs who were given a towel to track Madeleine. I bet he knows their effectiveness is short lived, live scent does not stay in the air for a long period of time. He asked for them, knowing they would find nothing. He did not bet on Eddie and Keela arriving later.

It is all very contrived, like something from a tv script, imo. Your daughter disappears and then suddenly you start looking for the FBI, heat seeking helicopters, closing borders etc etc. All of these things are what you think should happen, if you have time to sit down and go through a list of what would happen when someone disappears. It is on the tv. They are not however what would immediately spring to mind when you are in the middle of a crisis, you would run around like a headless chicken, searching, yelling at everybody to look, find, search. Who would think of the FBI for god's sake, in a sleepy holiday village on the other side of the world, in the middle of the worst time of your life ? Only Gerry McCann.


I know, I mentioned those dogs because Gerry likes to 'own' all the dogs apparently. Not only did he want dogs on the night, he pretended to 'own' Keela and Eddie by saying they'd asked for them. See? Not afraid of dogs at all, at all.....

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  ELI on Thu 13 Sep - 13:18

mossman wrote:I think the dogs Gerry asked for were the live scent dogs, not the EVRD. The dogs who were given a towel to track Madeleine. I bet he knows their effectiveness is short lived, live scent does not stay in the air for a long period of time. He asked for them, knowing they would find nothing. He did not bet on Eddie and Keela arriving later.

It is all very contrived, like something from a tv script, imo. Your daughter disappears and then suddenly you start looking for the FBI, heat seeking helicopters, closing borders etc etc. All of these things are what you think should happen, if you have time to sit down and go through a list of what would happen when someone disappears. It is on the tv. They are not however what would immediately spring to mind when you are in the middle of a crisis, you would run around like a headless chicken, searching, yelling at everybody to look, find, search. Who would think of the FBI for god's sake, in a sleepy holiday village on the other side of the world, in the middle of the worst time of your life ? Only Gerry McCann.



Hi mossman, I was interested in your reference to the live scent dogs and just wanted to add a couple of interesting points.

Though they are sometimes called ' live scent dogs ' the scent they locate or detect is located as result of the human body shedding skin cells, we loose aprox. 4000 microscopic cells every minute. Here's where it gets interesting ~ “All humans, alive or dead, constantly emit microscopic particles bearing human scent” ~ research from the United States Search & Rescue Task Force.
Both the GNR & Human Search & rescue dogs were deployed on 4 seperate days following Madeleine's disappearance, different dogs at different times and given different items in which to locate the scent, a towel, blanket and clothing for the search, again on different days.

All set off from apt. 5a and all followed the same route.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  mossman on Fri 14 Sep - 7:18

ELI wrote:
mossman wrote:I think the dogs Gerry asked for were the live scent dogs, not the EVRD. The dogs who were given a towel to track Madeleine. I bet he knows their effectiveness is short lived, live scent does not stay in the air for a long period of time. He asked for them, knowing they would find nothing. He did not bet on Eddie and Keela arriving later.

It is all very contrived, like something from a tv script, imo. Your daughter disappears and then suddenly you start looking for the FBI, heat seeking helicopters, closing borders etc etc. All of these things are what you think should happen, if you have time to sit down and go through a list of what would happen when someone disappears. It is on the tv. They are not however what would immediately spring to mind when you are in the middle of a crisis, you would run around like a headless chicken, searching, yelling at everybody to look, find, search. Who would think of the FBI for god's sake, in a sleepy holiday village on the other side of the world, in the middle of the worst time of your life ? Only Gerry McCann.



Hi mossman, I was interested in your reference to the live scent dogs and just wanted to add a couple of interesting points.

Though they are sometimes called ' live scent dogs ' the scent they locate or detect is located as result of the human body shedding skin cells, we loose aprox. 4000 microscopic cells every minute. Here's where it gets interesting ~ “All humans, alive or dead, constantly emit microscopic particles bearing human scent” ~ research from the United States Search & Rescue Task Force.
Both the GNR & Human Search & rescue dogs were deployed on 4 seperate days following Madeleine's disappearance, different dogs at different times and given different items in which to locate the scent, a towel, blanket and clothing for the search, again on different days.

All set off from apt. 5a and all followed the same route.


Hi Eli. The reason I am dubious about the live scent dogs is the fact that they will obviously only work from the item of clothing they are given. We only have the McCanns word for it that the towel, blanket and clothing etc were in fact Madeleines. I remember reading, almost certainly in Amarals book, that the dogs tracked the scent to the Baptista supermarket where it stopped. Now my question is why did these dogs never go the creche ? That is where Madeleine was, all day every day. Surely, they would have followed the scent there, if she was in fact in the creche or indeed if in fact the items used were hers. I have never seen mention of them going to the creche.

Just to note I am not dubious about the dogs capabilities and work, I fully support the dogs, I would be dubious about their findings in this instance as it is based on direct input from the McCanns. On the other hand, the EVRD work from nothing and do not identify a specific person so Gerry McCann could not interfere with their work.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  the slave on Fri 14 Sep - 8:20

Good grief! To think that I've never even given any thought to the glaring fact that the dogs didn't go to the creche. How stupid do I feel right now.
I thought I'd got 'the lot' over the last five years. The significance of the dogs NOT going to the creche has just hit me.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  AnnaEsse on Fri 14 Sep - 8:36

the slave wrote:Good grief! To think that I've never even given any thought to the glaring fact that the dogs didn't go to the creche. How stupid do I feel right now.
I thought I'd got 'the lot' over the last five years. The significance of the dogs NOT going to the creche has just hit me.

Me too, but that was the path that Madeleine was said to have taken every day of her holiday.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  Guest on Fri 14 Sep - 9:07

AnnaEsse wrote:
the slave wrote:Good grief! To think that I've never even given any thought to the glaring fact that the dogs didn't go to the creche. How stupid do I feel right now.
I thought I'd got 'the lot' over the last five years. The significance of the dogs NOT going to the creche has just hit me.

Me too, but that was the path that Madeleine was said to have taken every day of her holiday.

It certainly adds weight to the theory that Maddie died much, much earlier than 3 May, and a substitute was signed in every day at the creche.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  Not Born Yesterday on Fri 14 Sep - 9:30

I understand that there was very little forensic evidence that any children at all - not just Madeleine - had been in the apartment which has led to speculation (not sure if on this site) that the McCanns had another apartment where they actually stayed.

I thought that the only thing given to the dog as a scent was a towel, a strange item to be given as opposed to an item of clothing such as the outfit Madeleine was wearing in the famous (or infamous) poolside photo.

It's unlikely that the towel had been used only by Madeleine - the poor little mite supposedly didn't have her own hairbrush or toothbrush! - so we can only wonder why the McCanns did not provide something that was exclusively hers.

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

Post  Bobsy on Fri 14 Sep - 11:25

AnnaEsse wrote:
the slave wrote:Good grief! To think that I've never even given any thought to the glaring fact that the dogs didn't go to the creche. How stupid do I feel right now.
I thought I'd got 'the lot' over the last five years. The significance of the dogs NOT going to the creche has just hit me.

Me too, but that was the path that Madeleine was said to have taken every day of her holiday.

So if these items were supposed to be from contact with Madeleine, and the dogs didn't follow the route to the creche she was supposed to have followed four times a day who was it signed in as her at the creche and where was Madeleine?

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Re: proof edddie and keela found what they did

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