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Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

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Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  chrissie on Mon 1 Oct - 16:07

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html

By Dr Martin Roberts
01 October 2012
SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

"There could be two key bits of information that individually don't seem key but put together could give you some valuable information that could take you one step closer to finding Madeleine." (Kate McCann, 2010).

Seventeen Come Sunday is the title of an old English folk song and regular 'Proms' favourite. It's a simple statement. Looking forward toward a birthday event, it is as good an example as any of thinking ahead. Birthday celebrations are customarily planned in advance and, certainly when children are young, usually recorded for posterity. Madeleine McCann's disappearance was not such a happy eventuality, but Kate McCann has nevertheless seen to it that a record of the immediately preceding period exists. Hence we may read in her book ('Madeleine,' p.57):

"In the afternoon Gerry and I decided to take the children down to the beach. To be honest, I think they'd have been just as happy to go back to their clubs, but we wanted to do something slightly different with them, just the five of us."

And, two pages later:

"We dropped the kids off at their clubs for the last hour and a half, meeting up with them as usual for tea," (p.59).

The 'afternoon' in question was that of Tuesday, May 1st 2007.

So much for what was done, and why possibly no one else saw Madeleine early that afternoon, because she was in her parents' company outside the Ocean Club perimeter at the time.

Coincidentally, on the same page in her book, Kate McCann reinforces the importance of record keeping. As she tells us:

"Gerry and I would soon be painstakingly trying to extract from our brains every tiny incident, no matter how small, that might have been significant. Armed with notebook, pen and dated photographs, I would be challenging myself to piece together as comprehensive an outline of the sequence of events as I could."

During that fateful first week in May, the McCanns were on holiday. They had not signed up for a conference or sponsored training, hence their presence, and that of their children, at any venue, and at any particular time, was entirely optional. They were under no obligation to attend anywhere at all and could have spent the entire week in their apartment had they so wished. Kate's description of the spontaneous beach trip makes the situation perfectly clear. As for the Ocean Club 'nannies,' they could not have cared less if Madeleine McCann never appeared at the Kids' club at any stage. Their responsibility was guardianship of those actually present, not preoccupation with absentees. And it is in this context that we should consider the function of 'registers.'

In any school or kindergarten the register serves a two-fold purpose. Like an accounting 'day book' and journal combined, it shows who is present on the day and, by implication, who might need to be contacted in the event of emergency. It also serves as a vehicle for future analysis, when the benefit of good record keeping becomes abundantly clear, albeit in retrospect. While the Ocean Club junior staff needed to observe the first function, they would have had no interest at all in the second - a casual register kept in respect of an optional facility therefore.

Besides telling readers of 'Madeleine' what the family did that Tuesday afternoon, Kate's explanation of the beach trip tells of something that was not done. Madeleine did not join her young 'lobster' group friends at the Kids' club immediately after lunch. Whatever her innate charms or talents, she was physically incapable of being in two places at the same time. The same anecdote, embellished as it is with angst over the ice creams, tells us, inadvertently perhaps, of something else the McCanns did that afternoon - They deliberately falsified, personally or vicariously, entries in the Kids' club registers for the second period of the day.

There can be no doubt that is what happened, since Kate's 'account of the truth' explains with impeccable clarity how the whole family went to the beach that afternoon to do 'something slightly different;' in Madeleine's case different from – going to the beach, which is what 'lobster' group attendees at the Kids' club that afternoon were scheduled to do. Equally unmistakeable is the signature of one G McCann in the Kids' club register, alongside the name Madeleine, for 2.30 p.m. when, according to Kate she only made it for the last hour and a half (i.e., from 4.00 p.m.). The parents, by the way, are recorded as being at Tennis or the Pool. Meanwhile Kate was busy elsewhere signing in the twins at exactly the same time.

And yet the timing of Madeleine's afternoon arrival at, and later departure from, the kids' club that Tuesday afternoon (14.30 and 17.30 p.m. respectively) appears to receive confirmation from information archived in the case files and which derives in some measure from Ocean Club 'nanny' Catriona Baker's (aka 'Cat nanny') statement to Police (Catriona Baker, p.88 re: 01.05.07 in 12 Outros Apensos Vol. XII Annex 59), although itself not entirely consistent with the original crèche registers.

Such a small thing perhaps. Then again, so is nuclear fission.

No doubt the likes of that renowned 'source close to the McCanns' would bluster and 'pooh pooh' these observations. 'Nothing to them. The creche records are perfectly accurate. Kate merely got her days mixed up when re-telling the story. It's been several years don't forget.'

Perhaps it is the carefully constructed book which is in error and not the Ocean Club records after all. A serious problem for anyone engaged in maintaining a lie however is the obvious requirement to reproduce it faithfully. The deceiver has to be sure to tell the same lie - repeatedly. A sure-fire way of exposing oneself to an inevitable truth on the other hand is to tell a similar, additional lie, since this does not lessen the risk of detection but increases it. That is exactly what Kate McCann has done in 'Madeleine.'

Talking about May 3rd this time, she writes (p.66):

"Together we took Sean and Amelie back to the Toddler Club at around 2.40 p.m. and dropped Madeleine off with the Minis ten minutes later. Ella was already there...Having arranged for Gerry to meet the children, I opted to go for a run along the beach...I wondered whether Madeleine had been OK about staying behind at Mini Club when Russ or Jane had collected Ella.

"I had finished my run by five-thirty at the Tapas area, where I found Madeleine and the twins already having their tea with Gerry."

There is no ambiguity here. For Kate to meet up with the rest of her family at 5.30 p.m. at the Tapas Bar, husband Gerry (or someone else at the very least) must have collected all the children previously, Kate 'having arranged for Gerry to meet the children.' The minis register for May 3rd does indeed record Madeleine's arrival at 2.50 p.m., ten minutes after the twins were deposited and with Ella already there. But who signed Madeleine out again afterwards? Why, none other than Kate McCann - at 5.30 p.m. Exactly the moment when she tells readers of her chronicle that she encountered Madeleine elsewhere, already in the company of Gerry and the twins.

The significance of these duplicitous accounts resides, as ever, in the question 'why?'

Attendance at venues/events was voluntary don't forget. So if a child would not be present at one or other crèche facility, for whatever reason, then no one would care over much (one less to worry about really). A

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  margaret on Mon 1 Oct - 16:52

Wow, they are pretty big discrepancies and l've never heard them aired before.

How can she write such blatant lies in her book?

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  kitti on Mon 1 Oct - 16:53

Because she is a lier.

Not very good one though.

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Panda on Mon 1 Oct - 17:39

Wasn't it the 3rd of May that Madeleiene went to the Beach with some of the children and nannies and went for a ride in a boat but was afraid? Was this the day she said " Mummy, Iv'e had the bestest day ever".

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 1 Oct - 17:59

kitti wrote:Because she is a lier.

Not very good one though.

You'd think she'd try to get the details right, to agree with her statements. All she had to do was look at those statements. Kate and Gerry seem to think that their comments disappear into the ether and so can be corrected and improved as they go along.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  weissnicht on Mon 1 Oct - 18:34

I think k8 is simply stupid.


Last edited by weissnicht on Tue 2 Oct - 5:04; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Panda on Mon 1 Oct - 18:39

It says it all when the American Actress paid to play Kate (looked like her too!) had her role end up on the cutting room floor because Mentorn could not reconcile it to the other statements.

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Mon 1 Oct - 19:04

Im in ore of Dr Martin Roberts whatever he posts I'm in there like a shot......I do hope and pray that after all the effort he puts in to his fantastic and informative views and opinions, that he sends them ALL on to Scotland Yard I really do!

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Mon 1 Oct - 19:08

AnnaEsse wrote:
kitti wrote:Because she is a lier.

Not very good one though.

You'd think she'd try to get the details right, to agree with her statements. All she had to do was look at those statements. Kate and Gerry seem to think that their comments disappear into the ether and so can be corrected and improved as they go along.

Why! more to the point are SY or PJ not wanting....true facts! How are these two neglecting doctors allowed to chop and change their stories, in writting in Kates Books and the Police still do nothing about it, what more proof do they actually need/want by the McCanns constantly changing their lies stories !!!!!!!!

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  matthew on Mon 1 Oct - 19:45

The best commentator on this case i have seen...Dear dear Kate...to painstakingly keep records of what you & your family done preceding Madeleines dissapearance & you still muck up your lines in the bewk,Kates records & the creche records = BS,this is also the same day of the crying incident according to the late Mrs Fenn,so if Madeleine was not present for creche daytime who was present for crying @ nightime

a link to the good Drs thoughts on this case...warning highly addictive

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id260.html

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  tanszi on Mon 1 Oct - 23:35

ive said this so often im boring - i would love to meet Dr Roberts, so succint in his observations

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Wintabells on Tue 2 Oct - 1:12

'The parents, by the way, are recorded as being at Tennis or the Pool'.

I hadn't realised this - ie. that K&G were recorded as being at tennis/pool when they were allegedly on the beach with the 3 kids. I wonder where these records appear... I've only ever seen reference to 'tennis/pool' on the creche records themselves, where the parent indicates where they can be reached if required, so I'm not sure I understand this bit.

And how odd that the McCs decided to take their children to do the very thing the Lobsters group were scheduled to do anyway - ice-cream on the beach - at exactly the time they would be doing it and claim to return the children at exactly the time that activity would have ended, ie. 1.5 hours before the end of creche (5pm according to this sheet).


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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Wintabells on Tue 2 Oct - 1:17

Panda wrote:Wasn't it the 3rd of May that Madeleiene went to the Beach with some of the children and nannies and went for a ride in a boat but was afraid? Was this the day she said " Mummy, Iv'e had the bestest day ever".

According to this sheet, the sailing outing was switched to Thursday. I think I read somewhere in the statements it was because the weather was too cold on Wednesday for sailing. Plus, didn't Fiona and Jane claim to have seen the kids at the beach on Thursday, in a little boat or somesuch? I seem to remember an amount of coyness about whether or not they actually eyeballed M.


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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Wintabells on Tue 2 Oct - 1:20

Lillyofthevalley wrote:Im in ore of Dr Martin Roberts whatever he posts I'm in there like a shot......I do hope and pray that after all the effort he puts in to his fantastic and informative views and opinions, that he sends them ALL on to Scotland Yard I really do!

I am certain that he must have. No-one would go to all of this painstaking effort just for the exercise.

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Panda on Tue 2 Oct - 8:35

Wintabells wrote:
Panda wrote:Wasn't it the 3rd of May that Madeleiene went to the Beach with some of the children and nannies and went for a ride in a boat but was afraid? Was this the day she said " Mummy, Iv'e had the bestest day ever".

According to this sheet, the sailing outing was switched to Thursday. I think I read somewhere in the statements it was because the weather was too cold on Wednesday for sailing. Plus, didn't Fiona and Jane claim to have seen the kids at the beach on Thursday, in a little boat or somesuch? I seem to remember an amount of coyness about whether or not they actually eyeballed M.


Thanks for the find Wintabells. They are bigger liars than Tom Pepper ( don't ask me who he was, my Mother always quoted him )

No wonder they didn't want a recon. On reflection, the Portugese Police were too soft with them.

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  mossman on Tue 2 Oct - 8:56

Panda wrote:
Wintabells wrote:
Panda wrote:Wasn't it the 3rd of May that Madeleiene went to the Beach with some of the children and nannies and went for a ride in a boat but was afraid? Was this the day she said " Mummy, Iv'e had the bestest day ever".

According to this sheet, the sailing outing was switched to Thursday. I think I read somewhere in the statements it was because the weather was too cold on Wednesday for sailing. Plus, didn't Fiona and Jane claim to have seen the kids at the beach on Thursday, in a little boat or somesuch? I seem to remember an amount of coyness about whether or not they actually eyeballed M.


Thanks for the find Wintabells. They are bigger liars than Tom Pepper ( don't ask me who he was, my Mother always quoted him )

No wonder they didn't want a recon. On reflection, the Portugese Police were too soft with them.

Do you think they were too soft ? I wonder. I suppose you need to put yourself in their position back at that time. I would say they took the McCanns word for the fact she was missing initially. I guess they were stunned that the children were left alone so probably thought anything was possible. By the time the ridiculous stories were being digested, the big cover up and political band wagon had already started.

They may have been slow off the mark, but had they been left to their own devices, allowed to function in their way, possibly the outcome may have been different. I believe Amaral has a story to tell, a story that is very very close to what actually happened. Proving might be difficult, but my gut feeling is he knows.

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  tigger on Tue 2 Oct - 9:02

Indeed, I'm sure Dr. Amaral knows pretty well what happened exactly. Here's an interesting snippet:


Sunday
06 July 2008
The People
 
EXCLUSIVE Fury at Maddie smear Sick claim in cop's book
 
By David Jeffs Assistant Editor
6 July 2008
 
Madeleine McCann's parents last night angrily denied shameful allegations from a disgraced former Portuguese cop linking them to her death.
 
And he claimed he was on the verge of bringing a potential key new WITNESS to Portugal on the day he was fired.

unquote

That was a bit of luck then for the McCanns? Just when that pesky witness was to appear Amaral gets fired.

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Panda on Tue 2 Oct - 9:11

Morning mossman, I think the Portugese Police were overwhelmed by the McCanns and the Press from the very beginning.

The McCanns were quick off the mark in engaging Metodo 3 , against the rules of a secondary investigation and basically called the shots.

The biggest mistake the PJ made was not DEMANDING a recon sooner, they had good reason .

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Not Born Yesterday on Tue 2 Oct - 9:16

For anyone interested in the truth challenged Tom Pepper!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-25015,00.html

I'm sure that things would have been very different if the Portuguese authorities had been allowed to carry out their investigations without interference from all and sundry.

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  mossman on Tue 2 Oct - 9:17

You do not cross the McCann machine. Amaral knows, and Healy and McCann have been relentless in their pursuit of him. Tony Bennett I think is just too close to home for them. They do not want him publishing handy leaflets with the facts which can be easily distrbuted throughout the UK. What would the neighbours say.

It begs the question though, what in the hell SY are doing.

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Panda on Tue 2 Oct - 9:18

tigger wrote:Indeed, I'm sure Dr. Amaral knows pretty well what happened exactly. Here's an interesting snippet:


Sunday
06 July 2008
The People

EXCLUSIVE Fury at Maddie smear Sick claim in cop's book

By David Jeffs Assistant Editor
6 July 2008

Madeleine McCann's parents last night angrily denied shameful allegations from a disgraced former Portuguese cop linking them to her death.

And he claimed he was on the verge of bringing a potential key new WITNESS to Portugal on the day he was fired.

unquote

That was a bit of luck then for the McCanns? Just when that pesky witness was to appear Amaral gets fired.

Morning tigger, some Members think Amaral was not fired but left the Force to write his book. Don't you think the PJ would have brought the witness to Portugal whether Amaral was there or not?

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  mossman on Tue 2 Oct - 9:21

Panda wrote:Morning mossman, I think the Portugese Police were overwhelmed by the McCanns and the Press from the very beginning.

The McCanns were quick off the mark in engaging Metodo 3 , against the rules of a secondary investigation and basically called the shots.

The biggest mistake the PJ made was not DEMANDING a recon sooner, they had good reason .

Hi Panda, yes they certainly did make mistakes. I just feel sorry for them really, I think the circumstances in which they were placed were, as you say, overwhelming and previously unknown to them. What annoys me more at the moment though, is the SY review. They are not in the same position as the PJ back then and they seem to be doing even less. I hope I am wrong and they are slowly building a cast iron case against these two behind the scenes. I think the recent spate of articles from Dr Roberts and Himself pointing out such obvious descrepancies have frustrated me

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Panda on Tue 2 Oct - 9:25

Not Born Yesterday wrote:For anyone interested in the truth challenged Tom Pepper!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-25015,00.html

I'm sure that things would have been very different if the Portuguese authorities had been allowed to carry out their investigations without interference from all and sundry.

Thanks NBY....I love it, how the Hell do you find all this info??Pity my Mother wasn't alive to enlighten her. I think this is

the most feasible, know their History the Welsh.

" I believe it's a reference to Thomas Culpepper, executed under Henry VIII for allegedly being the lover of Catherine Howard. He protested his innocence to the end, but wasn't believed, hence the "liar" connection. "


Rhiannon, London

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  Panda on Tue 2 Oct - 9:34

mossman wrote:
Panda wrote:Morning mossman, I think the Portugese Police were overwhelmed by the McCanns and the Press from the very beginning.

The McCanns were quick off the mark in engaging Metodo 3 , against the rules of a secondary investigation and basically called the shots.

The biggest mistake the PJ made was not DEMANDING a recon sooner, they had good reason .

Hi Panda, yes they certainly did make mistakes. I just feel sorry for them really, I think the circumstances in which they were placed were, as you say, overwhelming and previously unknown to them. What annoys me more at the moment though, is the SY review. They are not in the same position as the PJ back then and they seem to be doing even less. I hope I am wrong and they are slowly building a cast iron case against these two behind the scenes. I think the recent spate of articles from Dr Roberts and Himself pointing out such obvious descrepancies have frustrated me

Yes mossman , the SY team have 35 Detectives and 5 clerical Staff and obviously would not have ploughed through every piece of Paper. Since the McCanns claim was that the PJ did not chase up every lead didn't you wonder why they were seen taking all those boxes away from Metodo 3's Office? This was a private investigation paid for by the Fund and I'm sure Metodo 3 would have sent reports to the McCanns who were not pleased with their results and fired them.

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

Post  marxman on Tue 2 Oct - 10:14

If I am reading Dr Robert's correctly then
what he is saying is that creche records
are normally relaxed due to the relaxed
nature and conduct of holiday-maker's
comings and goings. Therefore, when the
records show false entries/exits of kids
on creche logs then something indicates
pre-planning or being pre-emptive of future
questioning/investigation.
Am I right in this regard?

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Re: Dr Roberts - SEVENTEEN COME SUNDAY

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