Missing Madeleine
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Important items

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Important items

Post  MaryB on Sun 21 Oct - 16:21

I was reading an article about the search for Ben Needham. The police say they are looking for any items such as toys or clothing which might lead them to finding out what happened to Ben. Surely the same thing must be done with Madeleine. A list of all items like pyjamas, the pink blanket, any bags which went missing at the same time. Or toys. Did the person Jane Tanner said she saw carrying Madeleine have the blanket or not. And did the person the Smiths saw have the blanket. Surely that is absolutelly vital to find out.

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Re: Important items

Post  mossman on Sun 21 Oct - 16:54

I would bet there will not be a problem for Kerry Needham to provide these to the police, some 20+ years later. I feel certain she has them all neatly and lovingly kept.

Sadly for Madeleine, there was little evidence of "stuff" belonging to her in PDL. Cuddle cat got taken over by Kate, there were photos of her young sister holding the cat, what was supposed to have been Madeleines comforter was bandied about as and when Kate McCann saw fit. Kate took it, supposedly for her own "comfort" but in reality it was for her own financial gain. That would break a childs heart. Their comforter is a very special, personal thing, they do not like it washed. Most chldren are brought up to be told you must share, it is a good thing. Their comforter is the one thing that is out of bounds though, it is accepted in every family it is special to the owner. Rather like a child who sucks their thumb - you do not tell them they should allow every one else to suck it !

The blanket on the bed, as visible in the police photos of 5a, is important, where is it now I wonder ? It was there for a reason that night, most likely because Madeleine liked to have it, but it has never been seen or mentioned again. If the abductor had one, it means he brought his own. Gerry said nothing valuable was taken from the apartment, so no blanket missing. He was an organised abductor though.

Her sticker book was torn and used to provide her parents alibi.

As far as we are told she did not have her own toothbrush. It seems unlikely she had her own hairbrush for exclusive use, given they went back to Rothley for a hair sample.

Poor little pet, for all of her parents "talk" I fear the little one had a lonely little life. Those big sad eyes seen in so many of the photographs tell a story. How sad to think she spent her last family days away from her family, in unfamiliar surroundings, being looked after by people she had never met. To think Kate made a big deal in her book about going for ice cream to the beach on a freezing cold day and Madeleine wanting to go back to the creche says it all really.

The blue tennis type bag that they claim did not exist - find that and you will find the blanket and most likely evidence as to what happened to Madeleine. In my opinion only of course.

I think the police would have an easier job finding a man to fit the egg man description than gathering special belongings for Madeleine.

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Re: Important items

Post  James on Sun 21 Oct - 17:05

mossman wrote:I would bet there will not be a problem for Kerry Needham to provide these to the police, some 20+ years later. I feel certain she has them all neatly and lovingly kept.

Sadly for Madeleine, there was little evidence of "stuff" belonging to her in PDL. Cuddle cat got taken over by Kate, there were photos of her young sister holding the cat, what was supposed to have been Madeleines comforter was bandied about as and when Kate McCann saw fit. Kate took it, supposedly for her own "comfort" but in reality it was for her own financial gain. That would break a childs heart. Their comforter is a very special, personal thing, they do not like it washed. Most chldren are brought up to be told you must share, it is a good thing. Their comforter is the one thing that is out of bounds though, it is accepted in every family it is special to the owner. Rather like a child who sucks their thumb - you do not tell them they should allow every one else to suck it !

The blanket on the bed, as visible in the police photos of 5a, is important, where is it now I wonder ? It was there for a reason that night, most likely because Madeleine liked to have it, but it has never been seen or mentioned again. If the abductor had one, it means he brought his own. Gerry said nothing valuable was taken from the apartment, so no blanket missing. He was an organised abductor though.

Her sticker book was torn and used to provide her parents alibi.

As far as we are told she did not have her own toothbrush. It seems unlikely she had her own hairbrush for exclusive use, given they went back to Rothley for a hair sample.

Poor little pet, for all of her parents "talk" I fear the little one had a lonely little life. Those big sad eyes seen in so many of the photographs tell a story. How sad to think she spent her last family days away from her family, in unfamiliar surroundings, being looked after by people she had never met. To think Kate made a big deal in her book about going for ice cream to the beach on a freezing cold day and Madeleine wanting to go back to the creche says it all really.

The blue tennis type bag that they claim did not exist - find that and you will find the blanket and most likely evidence as to what happened to Madeleine. In my opinion only of course.

I think the police would have an easier job finding a man to fit the egg man description than gathering special belongings for Madeleine.

Your post is very moving mossman. She was looked after by 'people she didn't know' ie the nannies in the creche and she wanted to go back there despite the 'treat' of going to the beach with her parents. She obviously had a better time with the nannies than with her parents. a pity Kate and gerry couldn't find the money to pay a nanny to babysit in the evenings. Ah, but remember the book - she didn't want her children looked after buy a stranger - far better to be left alone than that!

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Re: Important items

Post  kitti on Sun 21 Oct - 17:33

It doesn't matter where she was , what country she was in, Madeleine spent her days with strangers.


When they went to holland, in think it was, she was still very young and Kate McCann didn't work as Gerry went there for a year to do some sort off course ....she STILL put Madeleine in a creche, why, was it because it was offered to her and she thought, what the hell it's free so why not or was it because she just couldn't be bothered with her.



I still think it's odd that at the same time Gerry was going for a year that they coincidentally had IVF there, Perhaps the IVF was free to, why not wait till they get back home and Madeleine was a bit older but then she did mention it in the book , obviously she has been reading people's opinions on websites and remarked about it in that book.



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Re: Important items

Post  mossman on Sun 21 Oct - 17:44

kitti wrote:It doesn't matter where she was , what country she was in, Madeleine spent her days with strangers.


When they went to holland, in think it was, she was still very young and Kate McCann didn't work as Gerry went there for a year to do some sort off course ....she STILL put Madeleine in a creche, why, was it because it was offered to her and she thought, what the hell it's free so why not or was it because she just couldn't be bothered with her.



I still think it's odd that at the same time Gerry was going for a year that they coincidentally had IVF there, Perhaps the IVF was free to, why not wait till they get back home and Madeleine was a bit older but then she did mention it in the book , obviously she has been reading people's opinions on websites and remarked about it in that book.


The point about IVF in Holland is interesting, Kitti. Can anybody just arrive in another Country and have IVF treatment ?



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Re: Important items

Post  tigger on Sun 21 Oct - 18:57

mossman wrote:
kitti wrote:It doesn't matter where she was , what country she was in, Madeleine spent her days with strangers.


When they went to holland, in think it was, she was still very young and Kate McCann didn't work as Gerry went there for a year to do some sort off course ....she STILL put Madeleine in a creche, why, was it because it was offered to her and she thought, what the hell it's free so why not or was it because she just couldn't be bothered with her.



I still think it's odd that at the same time Gerry was going for a year that they coincidentally had IVF there, Perhaps the IVF was free to, why not wait till they get back home and Madeleine was a bit older but then she did mention it in the book , obviously she has been reading people's opinions on websites and remarked about it in that book.


The point about IVF in Holland is interesting, Kitti. Can anybody just arrive in another Country and have IVF treatment ?



No, I've asked around and it's quite exceptional that they were given IVF without having to wait. They were there for a year. Even unlikely they were paying the fairly large fees everyone has to pay for health insurance. (about a 130 euros a month per person) It's completely free too, even so Kate complained about the doctors in Holland lacking compassion, bit rich coming from that quarter!

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Re: Important items

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 21 Oct - 19:02

tigger wrote:
mossman wrote:
kitti wrote:It doesn't matter where she was , what country she was in, Madeleine spent her days with strangers.


When they went to holland, in think it was, she was still very young and Kate McCann didn't work as Gerry went there for a year to do some sort off course ....she STILL put Madeleine in a creche, why, was it because it was offered to her and she thought, what the hell it's free so why not or was it because she just couldn't be bothered with her.



I still think it's odd that at the same time Gerry was going for a year that they coincidentally had IVF there, Perhaps the IVF was free to, why not wait till they get back home and Madeleine was a bit older but then she did mention it in the book , obviously she has been reading people's opinions on websites and remarked about it in that book.


The point about IVF in Holland is interesting, Kitti. Can anybody just arrive in another Country and have IVF treatment ?



No, I've asked around and it's quite exceptional that they were given IVF without having to wait. They were there for a year. Even unlikely they were paying the fairly large fees everyone has to pay for health insurance. (about a 130 euros a month per person) It's completely free too, even so Kate complained about the doctors in Holland lacking compassion, bit rich coming from that quarter!

Compassion? Where was hers for her daughter when she said that Maddie's comment about crying was just a passing remark? In fact, where was her compassion when she left her children on their own and when she didn't go out looking for Maddie because it was cold and dark?

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Re: Important items

Post  margaret on Sun 21 Oct - 20:03

tigger wrote:
mossman wrote:
kitti wrote:It doesn't matter where she was , what country she was in, Madeleine spent her days with strangers.


When they went to holland, in think it was, she was still very young and Kate McCann didn't work as Gerry went there for a year to do some sort off course ....she STILL put Madeleine in a creche, why, was it because it was offered to her and she thought, what the hell it's free so why not or was it because she just couldn't be bothered with her.



I still think it's odd that at the same time Gerry was going for a year that they coincidentally had IVF there, Perhaps the IVF was free to, why not wait till they get back home and Madeleine was a bit older but then she did mention it in the book , obviously she has been reading people's opinions on websites and remarked about it in that book.


The point about IVF in Holland is interesting, Kitti. Can anybody just arrive in another Country and have IVF treatment ?



No, I've asked around and it's quite exceptional that they were given IVF without having to wait. They were there for a year. Even unlikely they were paying the fairly large fees everyone has to pay for health insurance. (about a 130 euros a month per person) It's completely free too, even so Kate complained about the doctors in Holland lacking compassion, bit rich coming from that quarter!

Sorry l don't think that's correct. If you're paying for treatment there's no waiting list, same as this country with IVF and other health issues you're seen within days.

You can choose your clinic, book an appointment and off you go. I'm not sure IVF is free under any health insurance but treatment abroad is often cheaper anyway, just like stories you hear of people going abroad for plastic surgery and other ops.

I don't see anything untoward in their IVF attempt in holland. Even soon after Maddie was born because there was still only a 20-25% chance it would work again.

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Re: Important items

Post  kitti on Sun 21 Oct - 22:18

All the same, why not wait till they got back to the UK, they knew they were going to holland, why do it there...I think, imo, she got it free that's why she went.



Why didn't she go back to work, instead she opted to go with him and once there she had IVF.

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Re: Important items

Post  tigger on Mon 22 Oct - 7:09

margaret wrote:
tigger wrote:
mossman wrote:
kitti wrote:It doesn't matter where she was , what country she was in, Madeleine spent her days with strangers.


When they went to holland, in think it was, she was still very young and Kate McCann didn't work as Gerry went there for a year to do some sort off course ....she STILL put Madeleine in a creche, why, was it because it was offered to her and she thought, what the hell it's free so why not or was it because she just couldn't be bothered with her.



I still think it's odd that at the same time Gerry was going for a year that they coincidentally had IVF there, Perhaps the IVF was free to, why not wait till they get back home and Madeleine was a bit older but then she did mention it in the book , obviously she has been reading people's opinions on websites and remarked about it in that book.


The point about IVF in Holland is interesting, Kitti. Can anybody just arrive in another Country and have IVF treatment ?



No, I've asked around and it's quite exceptional that they were given IVF without having to wait. They were there for a year. Even unlikely they were paying the fairly large fees everyone has to pay for health insurance. (about a 130 euros a month per person) It's completely free too, even so Kate complained about the doctors in Holland lacking compassion, bit rich coming from that quarter!

Sorry l don't think that's correct. If you're paying for treatment there's no waiting list, same as this country with IVF and other health issues you're seen within days.

You can choose your clinic, book an appointment and off you go. I'm not sure IVF is free under any health insurance but treatment abroad is often cheaper anyway, just like stories you hear of people going abroad for plastic surgery and other ops.

I don't see anything untoward in their IVF attempt in holland. Even soon after Maddie was born because there was still only a 20-25% chance it would work again.

They weren't paying for treatment, it was free. You go on a waiting list here, like everyone else. I mentioned the health insurance - it is compulsory, it doesn't mean you are paying for any treatment. It covers you for basic health care.
I pay 150 euros a month which doesn't include eg. unlimited physiotherapy only 12 'treatments, dental care up to 500 a year. My doctor recommended a particular medicine for me which is not prescribed, so I it costs me about 400 euros a year to buy that , etc.
So I pay out about 2000 plus euro a year for basic healthcare, which covers necessary operations, first aid, basic dentistry up to 500 (after that you have to pay) and not much else. IVF is included, but there are waiting lists.
If you want to jump the queue you have to pay. The McCanns got it free and got it within weeks of arriving in Amsterdam.

Gerry was learning how to use MRI at Amsterdam University. As it was a 'fellowship' it was paid for by the UK, the resultant paper was written by all five or so doctors who took part.

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Re: Important items

Post  Panda on Mon 22 Oct - 8:41

There was 11 months between the birth of Madeleine and the conception of the twins, couldn't Kate have produced more than one egg initially and it was stored until she was ready to conceive again.? This would have avoided more fertility treatment.

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Re: Important items

Post  tigger on Mon 22 Oct - 8:44

Panda wrote:There was 11 months between the birth of Madeleine and the conception of the twins, couldn't Kate have produced more than one egg initially and it was stored until she was ready to conceive again.? This would have avoided more fertility treatment.

I thought it was quite quick to start another pregnancy, keeping in mind how very difficult Maddie was as a baby. To me it seems that Maddie was a disappointment and another treatment was started as soon as possible. You could hardly start earlier than with a child of 11 months?

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Re: Important items

Post  mossman on Mon 22 Oct - 8:45

tigger wrote:
margaret wrote:
tigger wrote:
mossman wrote:
kitti wrote:It doesn't matter where she was , what country she was in, Madeleine spent her days with strangers.


When they went to holland, in think it was, she was still very young and Kate McCann didn't work as Gerry went there for a year to do some sort off course ....she STILL put Madeleine in a creche, why, was it because it was offered to her and she thought, what the hell it's free so why not or was it because she just couldn't be bothered with her.



I still think it's odd that at the same time Gerry was going for a year that they coincidentally had IVF there, Perhaps the IVF was free to, why not wait till they get back home and Madeleine was a bit older but then she did mention it in the book , obviously she has been reading people's opinions on websites and remarked about it in that book.


The point about IVF in Holland is interesting, Kitti. Can anybody just arrive in another Country and have IVF treatment ?



No, I've asked around and it's quite exceptional that they were given IVF without having to wait. They were there for a year. Even unlikely they were paying the fairly large fees everyone has to pay for health insurance. (about a 130 euros a month per person) It's completely free too, even so Kate complained about the doctors in Holland lacking compassion, bit rich coming from that quarter!

Sorry l don't think that's correct. If you're paying for treatment there's no waiting list, same as this country with IVF and other health issues you're seen within days.

You can choose your clinic, book an appointment and off you go. I'm not sure IVF is free under any health insurance but treatment abroad is often cheaper anyway, just like stories you hear of people going abroad for plastic surgery and other ops.

I don't see anything untoward in their IVF attempt in holland. Even soon after Maddie was born because there was still only a 20-25% chance it would work again.

They weren't paying for treatment, it was free. You go on a waiting list here, like everyone else. I mentioned the health insurance - it is compulsory, it doesn't mean you are paying for any treatment. It covers you for basic health care.
I pay 150 euros a month which doesn't include eg. unlimited physiotherapy only 12 'treatments, dental care up to 500 a year. My doctor recommended a particular medicine for me which is not prescribed, so I it costs me about 400 euros a year to buy that , etc.
So I pay out about 2000 plus euro a year for basic healthcare, which covers necessary operations, first aid, basic dentistry up to 500 (after that you have to pay) and not much else. IVF is included, but there are waiting lists.
If you want to jump the queue you have to pay. The McCanns got it free and got it within weeks of arriving in Amsterdam.

Gerry was learning how to use MRI at Amsterdam University. As it was a 'fellowship' it was paid for by the UK, the resultant paper was written by all five or so doctors who took part.


Thanks Tigger. That is why I was wondering. It was indeed a little miracle that they could arrive in a country and avail of free IVF in a very short period, when in most countries I am aware of the lists are long and as you say it is a very expensive procedure if privately done. Holland would indeed be a very busy country if it was as easy as Kate McCann makes it sound.

More strings being pulled ?

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Re: Important items

Post  margaret on Mon 22 Oct - 9:52

tigger wrote:

They weren't paying for treatment, it was free. You go on a waiting list here, like everyone else. I mentioned the health insurance - it is compulsory, it doesn't mean you are paying for any treatment. It covers you for basic health care.
I pay 150 euros a month which doesn't include eg. unlimited physiotherapy only 12 'treatments, dental care up to 500 a year. My doctor recommended a particular medicine for me which is not prescribed, so I it costs me about 400 euros a year to buy that , etc.
So I pay out about 2000 plus euro a year for basic healthcare, which covers necessary operations, first aid, basic dentistry up to 500 (after that you have to pay) and not much else. IVF is included, but there are waiting lists.
If you want to jump the queue you have to pay. The McCanns got it free and got it within weeks of arriving in Amsterdam.

Gerry was learning how to use MRI at Amsterdam University. As it was a 'fellowship' it was paid for by the UK, the resultant paper was written by all five or so doctors who took part.

Is that in the book, l must have missed that. So yes maybe strings were pulled...?

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Re: Important items

Post  margaret on Mon 22 Oct - 9:55

Panda wrote:There was 11 months between the birth of Madeleine and the conception of the twins, couldn't Kate have produced more than one egg initially and it was stored until she was ready to conceive again.? This would have avoided more fertility treatment.

It would have been embryoes stored not eggs. She could have BUT they would have been on ice in UK where the clinic was they had IVF. I'd say it's nigh on impossible the Amsterdam clinic would use the UKs embryoes.

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Re: Important items

Post  ann_chovey on Mon 22 Oct - 10:16

margaret wrote:
tigger wrote:

They weren't paying for treatment, it was free. You go on a waiting list here, like everyone else. I mentioned the health insurance - it is compulsory, it doesn't mean you are paying for any treatment. It covers you for basic health care.
I pay 150 euros a month which doesn't include eg. unlimited physiotherapy only 12 'treatments, dental care up to 500 a year. My doctor recommended a particular medicine for me which is not prescribed, so I it costs me about 400 euros a year to buy that , etc.
So I pay out about 2000 plus euro a year for basic healthcare, which covers necessary operations, first aid, basic dentistry up to 500 (after that you have to pay) and not much else. IVF is included, but there are waiting lists.
If you want to jump the queue you have to pay. The McCanns got it free and got it within weeks of arriving in Amsterdam.

Gerry was learning how to use MRI at Amsterdam University. As it was a 'fellowship' it was paid for by the UK, the resultant paper was written by all five or so doctors who took part.

Is that in the book, l must have missed that. So yes maybe strings were pulled...?


from the book.........

Not being Dutch citizens, we weren’t sure if we would be entitled to any treatment at all, so we were surprised and delighted when, just a month later, we had an appointment with a specialist and within only six more weeks we found ourselves starting another cycle of IVF in Amsterdam.

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Re: Important items

Post  kitti on Mon 22 Oct - 11:44

The were eggs stored in the uk so why not wait and use them unless she thought they weren't worth using.

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Re: Important items

Post  kitti on Mon 22 Oct - 11:45

You would think that Gerry McCann would off had other things on his mind and going there to do his 1 year course yet they had IVF.....

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Re: Important items

Post  margaret on Mon 22 Oct - 12:08

ann_chovey wrote:
margaret wrote:
tigger wrote:

They weren't paying for treatment, it was free. You go on a waiting list here, like everyone else. I mentioned the health insurance - it is compulsory, it doesn't mean you are paying for any treatment. It covers you for basic health care.
I pay 150 euros a month which doesn't include eg. unlimited physiotherapy only 12 'treatments, dental care up to 500 a year. My doctor recommended a particular medicine for me which is not prescribed, so I it costs me about 400 euros a year to buy that , etc.
So I pay out about 2000 plus euro a year for basic healthcare, which covers necessary operations, first aid, basic dentistry up to 500 (after that you have to pay) and not much else. IVF is included, but there are waiting lists.
If you want to jump the queue you have to pay. The McCanns got it free and got it within weeks of arriving in Amsterdam.

Gerry was learning how to use MRI at Amsterdam University. As it was a 'fellowship' it was paid for by the UK, the resultant paper was written by all five or so doctors who took part.

Is that in the book, l must have missed that. So yes maybe strings were pulled...?


from the book.........

Not being Dutch citizens, we weren’t sure if we would be entitled to any treatment at all, so we were surprised and delighted when, just a month later, we had an appointment with a specialist and within only six more weeks we found ourselves starting another cycle of IVF in Amsterdam.

Thanks ann_chovey. x

It's ambiguous to me. Is she mentioning 'entitled' as in free treatment or as in allowed to have any (paid for) treatment abroad? I know you're all going to say she means free but it's not clear to me.

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Re: Important items

Post  James on Mon 22 Oct - 13:02

yes it is ambiguous and I wonder why.

It occurred to me, and this may be a mad theory, but are the children really IVF children or conceived the natural way? Could this be an another marketing ploy dreamed up by Gerry? To make the public donate more generously - these poor parents, bad enough having a child abducted but a miracle child taken....!

i mean why did they release the information that the children were conceived using IVF. what relevance is it to the investigation? this is a very personal matter. There is a lot of detail in the 'truthful' book - why not be clearer in the book about this? Could it be because it didn't happen?

While I never believed they left the children alone as they claimed, if they were IVF children wouldn't you expect a very protective attitude towards their children? My sister in law has an IVF child - she is reluctant to leave my brother minding the baby and he is a great dad.

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Re: Important items

Post  tigger on Mon 22 Oct - 13:13

margaret wrote:
ann_chovey wrote:
margaret wrote:
tigger wrote:

They weren't paying for treatment, it was free. You go on a waiting list here, like everyone else. I mentioned the health insurance - it is compulsory, it doesn't mean you are paying for any treatment. It covers you for basic health care.
I pay 150 euros a month which doesn't include eg. unlimited physiotherapy only 12 'treatments, dental care up to 500 a year. My doctor recommended a particular medicine for me which is not prescribed, so I it costs me about 400 euros a year to buy that , etc.
So I pay out about 2000 plus euro a year for basic healthcare, which covers necessary operations, first aid, basic dentistry up to 500 (after that you have to pay) and not much else. IVF is included, but there are waiting lists.
If you want to jump the queue you have to pay. The McCanns got it free and got it within weeks of arriving in Amsterdam.

Gerry was learning how to use MRI at Amsterdam University. As it was a 'fellowship' it was paid for by the UK, the resultant paper was written by all five or so doctors who took part.

Is that in the book, l must have missed that. So yes maybe strings were pulled...?


from the book.........

Not being Dutch citizens, we weren’t sure if we would be entitled to any treatment at all, so we were surprised and delighted when, just a month later, we had an appointment with a specialist and within only six more weeks we found ourselves starting another cycle of IVF in Amsterdam.

Thanks ann_chovey. x

It's ambiguous to me. Is she mentioning 'entitled' as in free treatment or as in allowed to have any (paid for) treatment abroad? I know you're all going to say she means free but it's not clear to me.

If they were 'entitled' to treatment the implication is that it was free. What 'entitlement' is there in treatment you pay for? None. Anyone who can pay for treatment anywhere in the world will get it. Nothing to do with being Dutch citizens, it is to do with Dutch citizens paying their monthly contribution to the health system, such as it is. I can assure you for all the complaints about the NHS, in my experience it is no better.

As an aside, the great lack of detail about her pregnancies, the actual births and the post birth possible problems, the fact that Maddie did not appear to be entirely healthy and the twins are not identical twins, I'm wondering about the eggs, Sean was exhibiting the McCann red hair so I'd think those genes are present. All this just my observation and opinion.

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Re: Important items

Post  margaret on Mon 22 Oct - 13:29

tigger wrote:
As an aside, the great lack of detail about her pregnancies, the actual births and the post birth possible problems, the fact that Maddie did not appear to be entirely healthy and the twins are not identical twins, I'm wondering about the eggs, Sean was exhibiting the McCann red hair so I'd think those genes are present. All this just my observation and opinion.

tigger, boy and girl twins are never identical.....

There's nothing untoward about non-ID twins in IVF. Kate would have had a maximum of two embryoes put back.

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Re: Important items

Post  ann_chovey on Mon 22 Oct - 13:47

James wrote:yes it is ambiguous and I wonder why.

It occurred to me, and this may be a mad theory, but are the children really IVF children or conceived the natural way? Could this be an another marketing ploy dreamed up by Gerry? To make the public donate more generously - these poor parents, bad enough having a child abducted but a miracle child taken....!

i mean why did they release the information that the children were conceived using IVF. what relevance is it to the investigation? this is a very personal matter. There is a lot of detail in the 'truthful' book - why not be clearer in the book about this? Could it be because it didn't happen?

While I never believed they left the children alone as they claimed, if they were IVF children wouldn't you expect a very protective attitude towards their children? My sister in law has an IVF child - she is reluctant to leave my brother minding the baby and he is a great dad.



There is a lot of detail in the book re the IVF in Holland, doctors names mentioned etc. so I should imagine there is no doubt it actually happened, although I'm sure highlighting it adds to the sympathy vote.

However, also from the book.....I was always terrified that Madeleine would hurt herself. I remember once, when she was about four weeks old, refusing to make a car journey with her because the baby seat appeared to be wobbling very, very slightly. I know Gerry felt I was a bit over the top sometimes. But babies seem so fragile and with your first it’s hard to get the balance right. I always erred on the side of caution.

Obviously after Sean and Amelie arrived the novelty wore off! I feel most would be like your sister in law no matter how many IVF babies they have.

e.t.a. What's a baby seat for a 4 week old? I must be old fashioned but I used to put the carry cot on the back seat and strap it in. Wheels and chassis in the boot.

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Re: Important items

Post  margaret on Mon 22 Oct - 14:21

Ann_chovey, this sort of thing.



You face the seat towards the rear of the car when they're born (and it's strapped in with the seat belt), upto the age of about 9 months of age. You can get some that fix to a special base fixed on the car seat.

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Re: Important items

Post  tigger on Mon 22 Oct - 14:33

margaret wrote:
tigger wrote:
As an aside, the great lack of detail about her pregnancies, the actual births and the post birth possible problems, the fact that Maddie did not appear to be entirely healthy and the twins are not identical twins, I'm wondering about the eggs, Sean was exhibiting the McCann red hair so I'd think those genes are present. All this just my observation and opinion.

tigger, boy and girl twins are never identical.....

There's nothing untoward about non-ID twins in IVF. Kate would have had a maximum of two embryoes put back.

Honestly! The reason I wrote that they're not identical is because I suggested the eggs didn't necessarily have to come from Kate. A non identical or fraternal set of twins would have an egg each, is what I should have said. But the y chromosome would come from Gerry as far as Sean is concerned hence his red hair.
Gerry must have been dying his hair since his student days, he had bright red hair when he was young.

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