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McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  T4two on Fri 21 Dec - 8:48

tigger wrote:
T4two wrote:
tigger wrote:
Panda wrote:Amaral is quoted as saying Madeleine was last seen at 5.30pm on 3rd May .....I presume that the Staff at OC confirmed she had tea there and was picked up at 5.30pm by one of the Parents.

That does not necessarily mean he believes that. Amaral has to work with what is in the public domain. The PJ held a lot (some 30 +%) back. Amongst those papers are the creche records of the 29th April for instance.

As to lies not directly contributed to the McCanns, this has been their modus operandi all the time. When the results from the CSI dogs came through, they phoned the family and mouthpieces to pass on their reactions. In other words, they were extremely media and legally aware.
This is why I think it was all prepared, who on earth would think of such tactics if you've just lost your child?

In fact, Philomena who's not the most articulate of people, must have had emails from Gerry as she was repeating the message pretty well verbatim every time. I've seen the same in quote in newspapers from her re Maddie, at the start always described in a formulaic way. No variation in the words used points at having learnt it by heart.
It's when questions are asked that are not on the menu that truth creeps in. 'She was a screamer'. and 'That girl could throw a tantrum' are good examples of that.


If Madeleine was last seen at 5:30 pm on 3rd May then the observations of Dr christian Ludke clearly explain how it is perfectly credible for the plan to have been put into operation in the short period of time between 5:30 pm and 10:00 pm when the alarm was raised. As 'normal' observers we are unable to understand how parents could react within such a short period of time when faced with the result of what would have been a horrific accident. We therefore try to prove that the 'event' happened earlier in the week and that creche records have been tampered with etc. because that is the only way we can explain it - anything other than an accident is unacceptable.

http://madeleinemccann.org/2007/2164/dr-christian-ludke/

Actually what Dr. Ludke says is that the plan would be formed a long time previously. Putting it in operation would indeed be possible if it was well-prepared.
If there was an accident, which is indeed likely, it doesn't preclude planning in any case. The accident wasn't foreseen, but imo the aftermath of the 'abduction' was prepared some time previous to the holiday.
I.e. imo the abduction was going to happen in any case, the plan had to be adjusted because of the accident, which imo probably happened quite early in the holiday.

Dr Ludke states quite clearly that he believes that it was not an accident. Amaral and the police have always appeared to believe that it was an accident, but whether they actually do believe that is unlikely IMO because they have absolutely no proof that it was - they only have indicative evidence that the child is dead, that the dead child was in the apartment and the hire car and that the parents' abduction story is not true.

Interviewer: Maybe it was an accident?

Ludke: No.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  HiDeHo on Fri 21 Dec - 10:09

kitti wrote:I wonder if they used the cadaver dogs to search the creche and surrounding area.

The creche was chosen to be searched by the dogs as it is thought to be the LAST CONFIRMED place that Madeleine was seen.

In other words....It appears (according to Mark Harrison) that Madeleine was NOT at high tea!!

This is from his report about the locations chosen for the dogs to search

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
Mark Warner Creche at Praia Da Luz.

This is the location of the last confirmed sighting by a person independent of family members of Madeleine McCann . Although this location was within the original search area it may well benefit from a further search using enhanced detecting methods for human remains. This will depend on the size of any outside grounds and concealed areas inside the building.

BTW....Thanks for all the responses on this thread...

I rarely get into discussions lately as I am always working on videos but all the input is of great importance to me as I am just getting inspiration for another video! lol

I'm not sure on the 'angle' I am going to take but as the 'Mark Harrison' quote is not well known, maybe I'll start with that.

There are so many videos I could put together just from this discussion so thank you!!!

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 0:22

At 5.30pm Jayne Jenson/Annie Wilshire with Raj Balu and Neil Berry were at the Tapas 3rd May 2007 and would have seen the kids having their tea as they were there from about 3.30pm until gone 7pm

Strangely, the original statements for Jayne Jenson/Annie Wilshire from 4th May never were released, neither were the first statements for Raj Balu and Neil Berry

Jayne Jenson/Annie Wilshire were seen having coffee with robert murat on May 4th, then in December 2007 (after the November Rothley meeting) Jayne Jenson/Annie Wilshire in a newspaper article 'out of the blue' suddenly claimed to have seen robert murat on the night of the abduction story

Berry and Raj Balu were asked to provide swabs by Portuguese Police

Jayne Jenson comes from Marlborough, Wiltshire...The same place as Jeni Weinberger (the mysterious 'witness' in the Maddie Was Here mocumentary and gypsy sighting witness later in 2008)

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 23 Dec - 0:33

I heard that Jayne Jenson/Annie Wilshire were sitting at the bar with a person called Tom. Can anyone confirm that? Who is Tom?

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 0:35

Interview of an employee from the swimming pool bar

In her interview, this employee states that access is restricted to clients and that this is controlled via the client's card at the entrance. She adds that she has not come across any unauthorised person on the site. She explains that on the day of Madeleine's disappearance, at around 8.30pm, her friend was called following a problem with a lock in an apartment situated close to the "Millenium" restaurant. She went there with her friend. At around 9pm, they went back towards the Club's reception. They passed near the "Tapas" and by the McCann family's apartment. They state that they saw nothing suspicious. They saw no one and no vehicles. Her friend left the premises at around 9.10pm with his service vehicle and she left at 9.15pm in her own car.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P-J-HAVE-DOUBTS.htm

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 0:42

HiDeHo wrote:I heard that Jayne Jenson/Annie Wilshire were sitting at the bar with a person called Tom. Can anyone confirm that? Who is Tom?

I have no idea but this is interesting from Monday 17 December 2007

The key witness in the case is reported to have gone into hiding after fleeing Portugal. Police have sworn the waiter to secrecy over his vital testimony and know where he is. But friends say he is terrified his identity is about to be revealed and that he will come under pressure from rival factions in the case. He is scared of British and Portuguese government influence in the probe. Friends claim he is also wary of the team of private eyes hired by Kate and Gerry McCann to help find their daughter.

The tapas bar waiter – described by police as their “trump card” – has given what detectives believe is the most reliable account of what happened the night the four-year-old vanished. They have questioned him three times, most recently last week. Officers say his story can prove Madeleine’s parents are lying over her disappearance. Many of the 100 questions officers want to ask the McCanns and their holiday friends – the so-called Tapas Nine – are thought to be based on his information.

But, according to former colleagues at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, the knowledge he is playing such a vital role in the case that has gripped the world has horrified him. One said: "He does not want to be involved in any of this. He was just a restaurant worker. His only problem was remembering food orders. He’s terrified.".
...Any idea who this is?

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id33.html

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  cherry1 on Sun 23 Dec - 0:45

Whoever it is I would hope that SY will be interviewing him.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 23 Dec - 0:46

I think it is the waiter 'known' as Cebola...I checked this extensivey but that was more than 4 years ago...Let me check....

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 0:48

Gonçalo Amaral: "The day I was taken off the case, I was preparing the process to bring to Portugal a key witness”

The former Criminal Coordinator of PJ, Gonçalo Amaral, now retired, told the weekly "Expresso" that the decision to take him out of the case was "unfair and dangerous". Gonçalo Amaral said that "he and other persons" believe Madeleine is dead and he was preparing to bring to Portugal a "key witness", on the day the head of PJ decided to replace him with Paulo Rebelo, in the investigation of Madeleine's disappearance. "That key witness never came to Portugal and (PJ) never took her statement", Amaral told the "Expresso".

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/gonalo-amaral-day-i-was-taken-off-case.html

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 23 Dec - 0:49

I found which waiter it was but hesitate to name him for obvious reasons. A long time has passed but I don't want to be responsible for bringing his name back into the limelight.

He is the only waiter that was interviewed three times, probably.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 23 Dec - 0:53

I think the witness you are talking about is the Smith family. As I recall they did not get a further statement from his wife.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 0:58

HiDeHo wrote:I think it is the waiter 'known' as Cebola...I checked this extensivey but that was more than 4 years ago...Let me check....

Cebola is on the staff rota. Interesting that there is no mention of Thursday (3rd May 2007) that he works...mentions every day except Thursday

Cebola - Works Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Sunday. Has Friday and Saturday off.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS_ROTA.htm

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 23 Dec - 1:01

He is listed under another name...All the details are in the 'Staff Rota and Statements for tapas' in Remembering Madeleine Forum.

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Staff-Rota-and-Statements-1-65276

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 23 Dec - 1:04

Unidentified Barman
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Staff-Rota-and-Statements/Unidentified-Barman-News-Articles-1-537561.html



Translation thanks to astro 3A's

Found the original article from the Portuguese press:

http://dn.sapo.pt/inicio/interior.aspx? ... _id=991075

PJ questioned Ocean Club worker again

Employee was the first one to see Kate after Maddie disappeared



The PJ heard, for the third time since Madeleine McCann disappeared, in Praia da Luz, the first Ocean Club employee who arrived when the child’s mother was shouting “They’ve taken her!” from the apartment’s balcony. As far as DN was able to establish, this waiter is a witness who is considered to be crucial to the investigation.

The employee was questioned for the last time two, three weeks ago at the PJ in Portimão. The police informed him that they will request him to give further clarification. But as far as it is known, the individual added little or nothing during this last questioning, merely repeating what he had said before. The investigators insist on what happened during dinner, namely the McCanns’ conversations and behaviour, apart from their alleged trips to the apartment where Maddie and her siblings slept.

The waiter continues to assert that it is false that the child’s parents went to check on their children every half hour, as they initially told the PJ. Kate only got up from the table at around 10 p.m. to go to the apartment and it was at that time that she sounded the alarm from the balcony. The employee’s testimony will be one of the PJ’s trumps to clarify the contradictions of the McCanns and their friends who were on holiday with them, during the upcoming questionings, in England, following the rogatory letters that are being translated.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerry McCann 'played tennis days after Madeleine disappeared'
By VANESSA ALLEN

Last updated at 12:22 24 October 2007


In an allegation likely to infuriate the McCanns, a waiter at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Laz said Gerry and Kate were 'very cool' after she vanished and seemed less upset than their friends

The waiter said: "What we found really strange was Gerry, days after the little girl disappeared, calmly playing tennis. He played with an old couple from England.

"They were so cool about it. I never saw them cry or anything. They played tennis and went jogging. They didn't seem as distraught as their friends. If my kid disappeared I'd go insane. I wouldn't be able to function. They'd have to lock me away."


Waiter claims McCanns did NOT check every 30 mins



Last edited by HiDeHo on Sun 23 Dec - 1:11; edited 1 time in total

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 1:10

HiDeHo wrote:Unidentified Barman
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Staff-Rota-and-Statements/Unidentified-Barman-News-Articles-1-537561.html



Translation thanks to astro 3A's

Found the original article from the Portuguese press:

http://dn.sapo.pt/inicio/interior.aspx? ... _id=991075

PJ questioned Ocean Club worker again

Employee was the first one to see Kate after Maddie disappeared

The PJ heard, for the third time since Madeleine McCann disappeared, in Praia da Luz, the first Ocean Club employee who arrived when the child’s mother was shouting “They’ve taken her!” from the apartment’s balcony. As far as DN was able to establish, this waiter is a witness who is considered to be crucial to the investigation.

The employee was questioned for the last time two, three weeks ago at the PJ in Portimão. The police informed him that they will request him to give further clarification. But as far as it is known, the individual added little or nothing during this last questioning, merely repeating what he had said before. The investigators insist on what happened during dinner, namely the McCanns’ conversations and behaviour, apart from their alleged trips to the apartment where Maddie and her siblings slept.

The waiter continues to assert that it is false that the child’s parents went to check on their children every half hour, as they initially told the PJ. Kate only got up from the table at around 10 p.m. to go to the apartment and it was at that time that she sounded the alarm from the balcony. The employee’s testimony will be one of the PJ’s trumps to clarify the contradictions of the McCanns and their friends who were on holiday with them, during the upcoming questionings, in England, following the rogatory letters that are being translated.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerry McCann 'played tennis days after Madeleine disappeared'
By VANESSA ALLEN

Last updated at 12:22 24 October 2007


In an allegation likely to infuriate the McCanns, a waiter at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Laz said Gerry and Kate were 'very cool' after she vanished and seemed less upset than their friends

The waiter said: "What we found really strange was Gerry, days after the little girl disappeared, calmly playing tennis. He played with an old couple from England.

"They were so cool about it. I never saw them cry or anything. They played tennis and went jogging. They didn't seem as distraught as their friends. If my kid disappeared I'd go insane. I wouldn't be able to function. They'd have to lock me away."

Thanks HDH...Its looks to me the PJ have withheld this particular statement, like they have to other key witnesses who were at the Tapas that night...No wonder the mccanns were so desperate to see all the documents the PJ have

I think the big play for 'tennis' was to deflect away any thoughts from Golf. Its interesting that the pJ were asking the tennis instructors/coaches about Jez Wilkins...Can't think why

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 1:22

HiDeHo wrote:Waiter claims McCanns did NOT check every 30 mins


This is very interesting

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 23 Dec - 1:25

Did you see the other one I uploaded the same day...

Were the McCanns at Chaplins when Madeleine was crying?

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 1:58

HiDeHo wrote:Did you see the other one I uploaded the same day...

Were the McCanns at Chaplins when Madeleine was crying?

Oh no I've never seen this one......She is saying that Maddie was crying from 10pm to 11.45pm? (thinking of the texts KM received on her mobile at around 10.20pm)

This is very interesting. I have researched Chaplins on the Tues. This was also the quiz night at Tapas

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 2:30

I wonder if this is the witness GA was bringing back to PDL?

When will people get it into their heads that MW’s did not and does not have a listening service in Portugal. This only applies in a few countries like Greece.
The reason for this is because The MW’s in Portugal was spread over a large area with no security walls and some of the apartments were not owned by MW’s.
What they did supply was a creche to leave children in at night so parents could go to dinner with their friends and then pick them up afterwards. It was open each night until about 11.30 or later if you made arrangements for a later pick up.
They also had a babysitting service where a person who normally worked in the creche by day stayed in the apartment and babysat the children.
Mark Warners offered this personal service to everyone, the only drawback being that it cost about £10 per hour. Maybe the McCann’s didn’t think their children were worth paying out money for.
The McCann’s went to another restaurant (Chaplin’s) the previous night which was even further away from where they were staying and they left their children alone even at that distance. Chaplin’s is 800 metres more in distance than the 200 metres it takes to get to the Tapas Bar.
MW’s staff had to go and find them and ask the McCann’s to return to their apartment as one of their children had been crying for over an hour and a half.
The next day MW’s offered them a babysitter for the night (for free) on the 3rd May and the McCann’s cancelled her services and went to the Tapas Bar which was 200 metres away not 50 yards as the McCann’s have stated).
Even after all that crying from their child the previous night, they still left their children alone again the next night. If that is not wilful neglect, what the hell is?


The reason I know this is that I was at MW’s in Praia de Luz at the same time as the McCann’s.
I was there with my daughter and granddaughter at the time Madeleine went missing.
I saw a lot of things while I was there but I can’t say what as both of us have given statements to the PJ.
We alternately went out and searched for Madeleine while her parents stayed indoors.
People on holiday and the people of Praia de Luz searched and some of the people took a week or more off to search for her.
The parents were far too busy going for a jog or playing tennis to do such a lowly thing as search for their own daughter.
When you do eventually learn of what did happen and what was seen, your jaw will drop down to the ground in complete shock.


The McCann’s were at Chaplin’s. I do know that for sure because me, my daughter and granddaughter were there at the time. I didn’t see the McCann’s being asked to return to see to their child because we left fairly early as my granddaughter was tired.

I did overhear some of the MW staff talking about this fact the next morning who were chatting amongst themselves as I was in the reception area waiting for my daughter and granddaughter to meet me there, that was the same day that Madeleine went missing.

Their opinion of the parents attitude of leaving their children alone each night wasn’t exactly flattering and according to them, that’s why MW’s offered them a babysitter for free for the night of the 3rd of May. I don’t deliberately listen to other people’s conversations but if you are standing round waiting for someone you can’t block out what you hear people talking about.

I also overheard a woman telling the police on one of the following days about a child was crying for a long time as I was standing fairly close by, but I didn’t know that she was talking about Madeleine at the time.

All the people on holiday gave statements to the police and anything that was said to the PJ has to stay known only to them until they wish it to be made known to the public or not, so I can’t tell anyone about that either.

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/seeking-vera-of-essex/

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  tigger on Sun 23 Dec - 6:51

T4two wrote:
tigger wrote:
T4two wrote:
tigger wrote:
Panda wrote:Amaral is quoted as saying Madeleine was last seen at 5.30pm on 3rd May .....I presume that the Staff at OC confirmed she had tea there and was picked up at 5.30pm by one of the Parents.

That does not necessarily mean he believes that. Amaral has to work with what is in the public domain. The PJ held a lot (some 30 +%) back. Amongst those papers are the creche records of the 29th April for instance.

As to lies not directly contributed to the McCanns, this has been their modus operandi all the time. When the results from the CSI dogs came through, they phoned the family and mouthpieces to pass on their reactions. In other words, they were extremely media and legally aware.
This is why I think it was all prepared, who on earth would think of such tactics if you've just lost your child?

In fact, Philomena who's not the most articulate of people, must have had emails from Gerry as she was repeating the message pretty well verbatim every time. I've seen the same in quote in newspapers from her re Maddie, at the start always described in a formulaic way. No variation in the words used points at having learnt it by heart.
It's when questions are asked that are not on the menu that truth creeps in. 'She was a screamer'. and 'That girl could throw a tantrum' are good examples of that.


If Madeleine was last seen at 5:30 pm on 3rd May then the observations of Dr christian Ludke clearly explain how it is perfectly credible for the plan to have been put into operation in the short period of time between 5:30 pm and 10:00 pm when the alarm was raised. As 'normal' observers we are unable to understand how parents could react within such a short period of time when faced with the result of what would have been a horrific accident. We therefore try to prove that the 'event' happened earlier in the week and that creche records have been tampered with etc. because that is the only way we can explain it - anything other than an accident is unacceptable.

http://madeleinemccann.org/2007/2164/dr-christian-ludke/

Actually what Dr. Ludke says is that the plan would be formed a long time previously. Putting it in operation would indeed be possible if it was well-prepared.
If there was an accident, which is indeed likely, it doesn't preclude planning in any case. The accident wasn't foreseen, but imo the aftermath of the 'abduction' was prepared some time previous to the holiday.
I.e. imo the abduction was going to happen in any case, the plan had to be adjusted because of the accident, which imo probably happened quite early in the holiday.

Dr Ludke states quite clearly that he believes that it was not an accident. Amaral and the police have always appeared to believe that it was an accident, but whether they actually do believe that is unlikely IMO because they have absolutely no proof that it was - they only have indicative evidence that the child is dead, that the dead child was in the apartment and the hire car and that the parents' abduction story is not true.

Interviewer: Maybe it was an accident?

Ludke: No.

@T4two
I wasn't making myself clear. Personally, I'm all the way with Dr. Ludke. However, it seems that something unforeseen happened which is why the blood spatter and the cadaver odour behind the sofa were found. If not an accident, something worse. I have read somewhere - not that I can find it - that Kate said once that 'it wasn't supposed to happen like that'.
So imo there was a plan, the follow-up and the 'protection connections' were prepared, the right numbers on speed dial but an unforeseen event threw the planning out. Then during the 'abuction' several other things went wrong and threw out the timing.
So no wonder they looked stunned, Gerry is saying 'it's a disaster' (which imo refers to the scuppered timeline) and the back-up from the T7, which should have been rock-solid, all over the place.


PS. Only just woken up, this thread is terrific! HideHo rocks!

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  T4two on Sun 23 Dec - 7:02

tigger wrote:
T4two wrote:
tigger wrote:
T4two wrote:
tigger wrote:

That does not necessarily mean he believes that. Amaral has to work with what is in the public domain. The PJ held a lot (some 30 +%) back. Amongst those papers are the creche records of the 29th April for instance.

As to lies not directly contributed to the McCanns, this has been their modus operandi all the time. When the results from the CSI dogs came through, they phoned the family and mouthpieces to pass on their reactions. In other words, they were extremely media and legally aware.
This is why I think it was all prepared, who on earth would think of such tactics if you've just lost your child?

In fact, Philomena who's not the most articulate of people, must have had emails from Gerry as she was repeating the message pretty well verbatim every time. I've seen the same in quote in newspapers from her re Maddie, at the start always described in a formulaic way. No variation in the words used points at having learnt it by heart.
It's when questions are asked that are not on the menu that truth creeps in. 'She was a screamer'. and 'That girl could throw a tantrum' are good examples of that.


If Madeleine was last seen at 5:30 pm on 3rd May then the observations of Dr christian Ludke clearly explain how it is perfectly credible for the plan to have been put into operation in the short period of time between 5:30 pm and 10:00 pm when the alarm was raised. As 'normal' observers we are unable to understand how parents could react within such a short period of time when faced with the result of what would have been a horrific accident. We therefore try to prove that the 'event' happened earlier in the week and that creche records have been tampered with etc. because that is the only way we can explain it - anything other than an accident is unacceptable.

http://madeleinemccann.org/2007/2164/dr-christian-ludke/

Actually what Dr. Ludke says is that the plan would be formed a long time previously. Putting it in operation would indeed be possible if it was well-prepared.
If there was an accident, which is indeed likely, it doesn't preclude planning in any case. The accident wasn't foreseen, but imo the aftermath of the 'abduction' was prepared some time previous to the holiday.
I.e. imo the abduction was going to happen in any case, the plan had to be adjusted because of the accident, which imo probably happened quite early in the holiday.

Dr Ludke states quite clearly that he believes that it was not an accident. Amaral and the police have always appeared to believe that it was an accident, but whether they actually do believe that is unlikely IMO because they have absolutely no proof that it was - they only have indicative evidence that the child is dead, that the dead child was in the apartment and the hire car and that the parents' abduction story is not true.

Interviewer: Maybe it was an accident?

Ludke: No.

@T4two
I wasn't making myself clear. Personally, I'm all the way with Dr. Ludke. However, it seems that something unforeseen happened which is why the blood spatter and the cadaver odour behind the sofa were found. If not an accident, something worse. I have read somewhere - not that I can find it - that Kate said once that 'it wasn't supposed to happen like that'.
So imo there was a plan, the follow-up and the 'protection connections' were prepared, the right numbers on speed dial but an unforeseen event threw the planning out. Then during the 'abuction' several other things went wrong and threw out the timing.
So no wonder they looked stunned, Gerry is saying 'it's a disaster' (which imo refers to the scuppered timeline) and the back-up from the T7, which should have been rock-solid, all over the place.


PS. Only just woken up, this thread is terrific! HideHo rocks!

Good morning tigger:) agree - something unforeseen happened - it often does. Best laid plans of mice & men etc.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  tigger on Sun 23 Dec - 7:23

jd16 wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:Did you see the other one I uploaded the same day...

Were the McCanns at Chaplins when Madeleine was crying?

Oh no I've never seen this one......She is saying that Maddie was crying from 10pm to 11.45pm? (thinking of the texts KM received on her mobile at around 10.20pm)

This is very interesting. I have researched Chaplins on the Tues. This was also the quiz night at Tapas

In one of the Textusa articles, I'm sure I read that Chaplins also had a quiz night! I'll see if I can find it.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  T4two on Sun 23 Dec - 9:01

tigger wrote:
jd16 wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:Did you see the other one I uploaded the same day...

Were the McCanns at Chaplins when Madeleine was crying?

Oh no I've never seen this one......She is saying that Maddie was crying from 10pm to 11.45pm? (thinking of the texts KM received on her mobile at around 10.20pm)

This is very interesting. I have researched Chaplins on the Tues. This was also the quiz night at Tapas

In one of the Textusa articles, I'm sure I read that Chaplins also had a quiz night! I'll see if I can find it.


An English Restaurant great for traditional British dishes when you want to go for 'home cooking'. Good value for money. Fish & Chips, Bangers and Mash etc.. Large portions, well prepared and nice service. They do a Cataplana for one which is unusual ( normally only for two persons ). The rack of lamb is probably the best we've ever eaten. The steaks are more than substantial. 3 course Sunday Roasts from €12 - ( 12.30 to 21.00 ). Take away service for fish & chips, curries, bangers and mash. ● Quiz night every Tuesday at 22.00 (seasonal). Be sure to say hello to Analise when you visit.
See a Sample Menu here.
Open: 18.00 - 02.00 (7 nights). Food served: 18.00 - 22.00.
Closed (2007): December through February.
Where: This is the first of the four restaurants in a row just below the church and opposite the Fortaleza.
Av. dos Pescadores.
Tel: (+351) 282 789 932.
http://www.luzholiday.com/Portugal10.htm#Chaplins

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  tigger on Sun 23 Dec - 10:07

Thanks! And !!!!!!!!!

The main reason - according to Textusa - that they didn't mention any other place except the Tapas Bar and the Millennium is that it was essential that they didn't know PdL at all. Babes in the woods so to speak. That's why they had to ask mr. Portuguese Unkind Unfeeling Policeman where the church was so that they could pray for the return of their child.

They knew perfectly well where the church was, right next to Chaplin's Bar. Which stayed open a lot longer than the Tapas and had Happy Hour from 11.00 pm or so. What's not to like about half price drinks?

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  T4two on Sun 23 Dec - 10:28

tigger wrote:Thanks! And !!!!!!!!!

The main reason - according to Textusa - that they didn't mention any other place except the Tapas Bar and the Millennium is that it was essential that they didn't know PdL at all. Babes in the woods so to speak. That's why they had to ask mr. Portuguese Unkind Unfeeling Policeman where the church was so that they could pray for the return of their child.

They knew perfectly well where the church was, right next to Chaplin's Bar. Which stayed open a lot longer than the Tapas and had Happy Hour from 11.00 pm or so. What's not to like about half price drinks?

Yes - the lure of half-price drinks after the Tapas had closed would have been too strong to resist I imagine. Indeed the lure of drinks at any price - after all KM's comment, "We've all been there", after finding a person lying drunk and incapable in the middle of the road (reporting one of good samaritan GM's heroic deeds I believe) tells us a lot about their mindset as far as bingeing is concerned. Quite amazing how much they unintentionally reveal about themselves when they relate these little anecdotes, which are actually intended to reinforce a lie or create an impression of something completely different which they want others to believe.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

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