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McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  almostgothic on Sun 23 Dec - 10:53

One can only imagine what the roads of Rothley and its environs look like after a long swally sesh at
Ye Olde Jemmied Shutter or other outlying hostelries ......

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  T4two on Sun 23 Dec - 11:53

almostgothic wrote:One can only imagine what the roads of Rothley and its environs look like after a long swally sesh at
Ye Olde Jemmied Shutter or other outlying hostelries ......



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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  tigger on Sun 23 Dec - 12:54

They prefer that hostelry to the other one: Ye Happy Spaniels. For some reason they never go there...

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 12:58

DUMFOUNDED BY CHAPLINS (OR POSSIBLY VICE-VERSA)Dumbfound and Chaplins First Appear

It seems that the very first public domain reference to Chaplins was posted by dumbfound at 11.49 am, Tuesday, 24 July 2007 on the Daily Express “HAVE YOUR SAY” User Comment Thread. Certainly, that was when the author first saw it mentioned. As the will see, it is not only Chaplins that dumfound introduced, it is children crying, Mrs Fenn, precise times, and a date.

Dumbfound’s Post

Dumbfound was not an MF poster – at least, not under that particular nic. Dumbfound alleged as follows:

LIARS! LIARS! LIARS!
The McCanns dined out every night of their holiday while their poor children slept alone. They are lucky that this happened on the night they chose to dine in the tapas bar and not Tuesday for example when they dined in Chaplins, below their beloved church, near the beach, 8 times the distance away. They never once checked on their children as they claim, ask the staff! Talk to elderly Mrs. Senn [sic] who lives above and she’ll tell you on that particular Tuesday night she had to sit listening to one of the children “screeming [sic], crying” from 22:30 till 23:45. They went to dinner around 19:00h. Those poor, poor children. Yes, they should be prosecuted. How DARE they preach to other parents and try to teach us safety measures to ensure our children are safe from predators? How DARE they take the positions of heroes? How DARE they commit this crime upon poor Madeleine? Yes, they did it.


Thinking that this comment was not for long on this earth, the author took the precaution of saving it, typos and all. For what it is worth, the original link was: http://www.express.co.uk/comments/viewall/14347/7
Apparently, the author was prescient, for a while, only this remained:

**COMMENT REMOVED**
24.07.07, 11:49am
**Comment removed**
• Posted by: dumbfound

And when the Express pulled all McCann related pages, only this:

SORRY, UNABLE TO FIND THAT PAGE

Anyway, to continue the story, a little later that day, the MF poster, cfb, quoted dumbfound on the MF main thread. It was at point that discussion on Chaplins commenced.


Dumbfound’s Post and the PJ Report

One of the things that has always intrigued the author about dumfound is what was his /her source? The dumfound post predates by some time any report in any of the Media. What rings through is that dumfound writes as if he /she has very close knowledge of the events recounted.

Because of this, the author always placed some store in relation to dumfound’s date of Tuesday 1 May. Indeed, forum members may have noted that the author (alone amongst you all, he thinks) has advanced as a working hypothesis the theory that Madeline may have disappeared towards midnight, Tuesday 1 May, 2007, or shortly afterwards. He was encouraged in this by dumfound’s date.

Dumfound it will be noted, reports two key things as happening on 1 May:

Dining at Chaplins
Crying for 1¼ hours (from 22:30 till 23:45) as recorded by Mrs Fenn
Now, the PJ summary report, whilst not mentioning Chaplins, states that:

PAMELA FENN lives on the first floor of the residential block, above the apartment occupied by the McCANN family. She related that, on 1 May 2007, two days before the disappearance, at about 22h30, she heard a child crying, which by the sound was MADELEINE. The child continued weeping for one hour and 15 minutes, until the parent’s arrival (she heard the door sounds), at about 23h45.

What is interesting, astonishing even, is that the date and times exactly coincide with those given by dumfound . This leads to the thought as to whether dumfound was, as they say ‘a source close to the official police investigation’.

Back to Chaplins

Which leads one to ask whether Dumfound also right about ‘Dining at Chaplins’ on 1 May.

Now it seems that Dumfound may not be literally correct. There are plenty of reports that the McCanns went to the tapas bar every day except the night of 28 May (although a now-pulled Daily Express article suggested except 28 and 29 May).

For example, the Sun informs us:
That first evening, Saturday, April 28, the group ate dinner at the Millennium Restaurant and Terrace, another Ocean Club property ten minutes away. For the rest of their stay they established a practice of giving the kids tea, playing with them for an hour and then putting them to bed in their apartments before going out to the nearby tapas bar for dinner.

Nonetheless, the whole nature of a tapas meal is that is consists of a series, or collection, of snack-size portions. So, it’s certainly possible to snack twice, or to snack at Chaplins after drinking at the tapas, or
for that matter to drink at Chaplins after snacking at the tapas. There remain, however, certain niggles about Chaplins. To focus on a single example, Sol is the newspaper that has undertaken investigative reporting, but there is no mention of Chaplins in its reports

So, let us examine whether there is anything about Chaplins that might attract fun loving holiday makers towards the end of a Tuesday Night?

Quiz Night

Would a quiz night attract you? And if so, what night might quiz night be? Why, quiz night is Tuesday night!

Chaplins inform us:

“FUN” QUIZ NIGHT
every Tuesday, start 10 pm

But, is there any evidence that the tapas 9 enjoyed quizzes? Well, it seems they were not averse to them, for, in relation to the night of 3 May, Sol informs us

An aerobic instructor from the resort entertains the dinner guests at Tapas with a ‘Quiz’. At 9.30 p.m. the game ends, and Gerry invites her to their table, where she stays for half an hour.

Happy Hour

Is there anything that might encourage late evening drinking at Chaplins? Well how about a ‘Happy Hour’

Last year, this was advertised as follows:

Later on in the evening, once the food has finished, Chaplins swings into Bar mode and is soon full of people enjoying the music, the great company and perhaps most of all the Happy Hour (11.30pm – 12.30pm) when all drinks are half price.


Some Thoughts

What is interesting about the Chaplins story, if true, is what hangs from it. From the point of public relations, were it to become media mainstream, it could be extraordinarily damaging to the McCann cause.

The suspicious minded may also ask whether anything more serious than crying occurred.

We cannot know, at present, whether Chaplins is true or not, but Amaral has promised explosive revelations in his forthcoming book.

http://truthofthelie.com/2008/07/theauthor-dumfounded-by-chaplins/

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  Panda on Sun 23 Dec - 14:29

Hi jd16, there is so much reported about what happened when and at what time, the only two statements we can

believe are the statements of Mrs Fenn and the Barman of the Tapas Bar who said the Tapas 9 were drinking after their Dinner one night and he was supposed to finish at 11.30pm but some of the Group ordered more drinks and he couldn't leave until after Midnight.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 14:54

Panda wrote:Hi jd16, there is so much reported about what happened when and at what time, the only two statements we can

believe are the statements of Mrs Fenn and the Barman of the Tapas Bar who said the Tapas 9 were drinking after their Dinner one night and he was supposed to finish at 11.30pm but some of the Group ordered more drinks and he couldn't leave until after Midnight.

To me its looking like that there is strong truth in the fact they drank at Chaplins....No wonder they don't want this out as it will show they were 800 yards away till midnight with their kids left unattended


Last edited by jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 15:07; edited 1 time in total

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  malena stool on Sun 23 Dec - 15:01

I think this was known of back in 2007, I might be wrong but I seem to remember it as a topic on 3As.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  cherry1 on Sun 23 Dec - 15:23

Also hairdresser may have told Police they were not at Tapas when they said.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  Panda on Sun 23 Dec - 15:38

jd16 wrote:
Panda wrote:Hi jd16, there is so much reported about what happened when and at what time, the only two statements we can

believe are the statements of Mrs Fenn and the Barman of the Tapas Bar who said the Tapas 9 were drinking after their Dinner one night and he was supposed to finish at 11.30pm but some of the Group ordered more drinks and he couldn't leave until after Midnight.

To me its looking like that there is strong truth in the fact they drank at Chaplins....No wonder they don't want this out as it will show they were 800 yards away till midnight with their kids left unattended

The McCanns might have gone to Chaplins, but I doubt all of them, the others were making more regular checks and we don't know what the range would have been for a Baby Monitor. Don't forget, the McCanns didn' t really socialise with the rest too often, they did not go to the Payne's for lunch every day, nor the Paraiso Restaurant , nor to the Beach.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  tigger on Sun 23 Dec - 16:36

Panda wrote:
jd16 wrote:
Panda wrote:Hi jd16, there is so much reported about what happened when and at what time, the only two statements we can

believe are the statements of Mrs Fenn and the Barman of the Tapas Bar who said the Tapas 9 were drinking after their Dinner one night and he was supposed to finish at 11.30pm but some of the Group ordered more drinks and he couldn't leave until after Midnight.

To me its looking like that there is strong truth in the fact they drank at Chaplins....No wonder they don't want this out as it will show they were 800 yards away till midnight with their kids left unattended

The McCanns might have gone to Chaplins, but I doubt all of them, the others were making more regular checks and we don't know what the range would have been for a Baby Monitor. Don't forget, the McCanns didn' t really socialise with the rest too often, they did not go to the Payne's for lunch every day, nor the Paraiso Restaurant , nor to the Beach.

On the 1st of May, Najoua also ran the quiz night at Chaplin's, from 22.30 onwards. Happy hour there was from 22.30 to 23.30.
(As regards Gerry being so attracted to her, having seen her photograph I doubt it. Gerry's taste seems to be for skinny, flat-chester types).

Textusa argues in "All roads lead to Rome" that in the long period of time that a child cried in 5a, the others would have been checking their children and walking past the window of 5a without noticing the crying?
Or they weren't checking their own children at all. Textusa also points out that the crying would perhaps even be audible on Payne's baby monitor.
There's something so weird about that crying episode on the 1st.

Now I have seen somewhere that Gerry visited Mrs. Fenn in the days following 3/5. Would have been good to know exactly why. Perhaps to persuade her that the crying was on the 2nd?

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  Panda on Sun 23 Dec - 17:05

I thought the Quiz night was in the Tapas Bar because didn't Gerry invite Nagoua to join their table and she sat with them for a while before the Quiz started. What about the night Kate slept in the children's room , what night was that?

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 17:29

tigger wrote:
The McCanns might have gone to Chaplins, but I doubt all of them, the others were making more regular checks and we don't know what the range would have been for a Baby Monitor. Don't forget, the McCanns didn' t really socialise with the rest too often, they did not go to the Payne's for lunch every day, nor the Paraiso Restaurant , nor to the Beach

Textusa argues in "All roads lead to Rome" that in the long period of time that a child cried in 5a, the others would have been checking their children and walking past the window of 5a without noticing the crying? Or they weren't checking their own children at all. Textusa also points out that the crying would perhaps even be audible on Payne's baby monitor.
There's something so weird about that crying episode on the 1st.

Now I have seen somewhere that Gerry visited Mrs. Fenn in the days following 3/5. Would have been good to know exactly why. Perhaps to persuade her that the crying was on the 2nd?

Good points. If any of the T9 were in their apartments then they would have heard the crying if Mrs Fenn could hear it from upstairs. Clearly all the children were left unattended for at the very least an hour and half!! No 15/30 mins checks going on....

How many times has the T9 lot have to walk past those shutters to notice whether they were jemmied, opened or lots of crying coming from inside!!!! none of them noticed anything at any time...and they have the audacity to criticise the PJ!!!

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  Panda on Sun 23 Dec - 17:38

think sheds some light on Quiz Night, it appears it was held early at the Tapas Bar and Najoua left at 10pm to go to Chaplins.

Quiz Night

Would a quiz night attract you? And if so, what night might quiz night be? Why, quiz night is Tuesday night!

Chaplins inform us:

“FUN” QUIZ NIGHT
every Tuesday, start 10 pm


But, is there any evidence that the tapas 9 enjoyed quizzes? Well, it seems they were not averse to them, for, in relation to the night of 3 May, Sol informs us

An aerobic instructor from the resort entertains the dinner guests at Tapas with a ‘Quiz’. At 9.30 p.m. the game ends, and Gerry invites her to their table, where she stays for half an hour.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  matthew on Sun 23 Dec - 22:20

Panda wrote: think sheds some light on Quiz Night, it appears it was held early at the Tapas Bar and Najoua left at 10pm to go to Chaplins.

Quiz Night

Would a quiz night attract you? And if so, what night might quiz night be? Why, quiz night is Tuesday night!

Chaplins inform us:

“FUN” QUIZ NIGHT
every Tuesday, start 10 pm


But, is there any evidence that the tapas 9 enjoyed quizzes? Well, it seems they were not averse to them, for, in relation to the night of 3 May, Sol informs us

An aerobic instructor from the resort entertains the dinner guests at Tapas with a ‘Quiz’. At 9.30 p.m. the game ends, and Gerry invites her to their table, where she stays for half an hour.

Then Kate goes back to 5A as she was upset Gerry hadn't paid her enough attention(possibly paid the quiz mistress some though)& then the crying incident?was Kate in a jealous rage?didn't her phone ping at the times the crying incident was noticed by Mrs Fenn ?
There was a tapas member sick most nights if i recall,never the same one though...musical (chairs)illness

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 23 Dec - 22:25

I think t was Fiona who said Wednesday night was Rachael's 'turn'.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  matthew on Sun 23 Dec - 22:39

HiDeHo wrote:I think t was Fiona who said Wednesday night was Rachael's 'turn'.

Kikotran believes there was a standin Madeleine...that would mean there would be standin tapas,his theory revolves around phone & creche records,any thoughts on his theory?

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 23 Dec - 23:14

matthew wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:I think t was Fiona who said Wednesday night was Rachael's 'turn'.

Kikotran believes there was a standin Madeleine...that would mean there would be standin tapas,his theory revolves around phone & creche records,any thoughts on his theory?

I would need to see his research to decide on that., but doubful that I would consider a stand in.

I do not, however, put it past the records not being referred to by the creche staff (they were to keep a note of contact details for the parents).

Unlike a regular school, there would not be a check to make sure everyone was present. The children arrived and left randomly and often while they were off the creche property so I dont find it difficult to consider they could be added to, or changed....but...I really don't know.

After finding the comment by Mark Harrison claiming he sent the dogs to the 'last confirmed location' which was the creche. Quite shocking that he should suggest looking there for cadaver odour, if she was seen at high Tea! So...if she wasn't at High Tea...how did she get signed out?

So many questions...

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  Not Born Yesterday on Sun 23 Dec - 23:17

I find the stand-in theory a bit difficult to get to grips with and I can appreciate why the pros would cackle over their cauldrons at the mention of it.

However I do think that it is very likely that something happened to Madeleine prior to 3rd May so all I can surmise is that the creche records were falsified.

Matthew, I'm not sure what you mean by stand-in tapas, it may be a bit late in the day for me!

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  Panda on Sun 23 Dec - 23:35

I don't believe Madeleine died on the 2nd, nor that all the children were put in one room. If someone can dig out the sign in for the Creche, there is one day , I think the 3rd where Gerry accidentally signs on the wrong line which is why it appears no one signed out Madeleine.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  matthew on Sun 23 Dec - 23:37

Neither can i go with the sub Maddie as i have not seen enough to suggest this but i mean if there was a sub Maddie then there were sub parents/carers which in turn could replace a 'sick tapas' or they could babysit providing all the tapas 9 with a neglect alibi...Kikotran suggests Gerry signed in Elizabeth Naylor & Madeleine(sub)...
sorry...rambling...i know

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  jd16 on Sun 23 Dec - 23:52

The creche sheets go weird from the afternoon of April 30th....The day nobody talks about

JT only signed her kids in twice the whole holiday....On the 29th April and afternoon of May 1st

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  Panda on Sun 23 Dec - 23:56

matthew wrote:Neither can i go with the sub Maddie as i have not seen enough to suggest this but i mean if there was a sub Maddie then there were sub parents/carers which in turn could replace a 'sick tapas' or they could babysit providing all the tapas 9 with a neglect alibi...Kikotran suggests Gerry signed in Elizabeth Naylor & Madeleine(sub)...
sorry...rambling...i know

Hi Matthew, I think the McCanns were the worst offenders for child neglect , every single day from 9 to 5.30pm their children were in the creche , except for lunchtime when it was compulsory for the Parents to have the children at lunchtime. the rest of the Tapas Group had lunch together and we don't really know what they did in the afternoon.

Even after the McCanns were told by Madeleine that she had cried, did Kate say when Matther Oldfield offered to check on her children at 9.30pm " No Matthew, thanks, but I will go because Madeleine told us this morning that she had been crying last night so I want to make sure she is sleeping"..........NO!!!

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  Panda on Sun 23 Dec - 23:58

jd16 wrote:The creche sheets go weird from the afternoon of April 30th....The day nobody talks about

JT only signed her kids in twice the whole holiday....On the 29th April and afternoon of May 1st

Hi jd16, did you find the day where Gerry signed on the wrong line, I think it was either the second or third. He signed on the line above Madeleine's name.

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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  matthew on Mon 24 Dec - 0:47

I dont believe the McCanns version of the crying incident...


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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Post  matthew on Mon 24 Dec - 1:09



more porkies...the video went fuzzy when viewing on youtube


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Re: McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

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