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The Last Photo (again)

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Post  tigger Thu 28 Feb - 19:55

Just to add to this topic - the comments from Dr. Martin Roberts - re the Swedish interview last year:


Fredrik Skavlan: "Errm... If we could start by going back, errm... to... to May, errr... 3rd 2007. What's your strongest memories of Madeleine from that day?”

Gerry McCann: "I think the strongest memory I have is of really, the photograph that was the last photograph we have of her and, errr... you know, we'd had a lovely holiday. Madeleine was having a great time and just after lunch we went over to the pool area and, errr... she was sitting there paddling in the pool and I was sitting next to her and she turned round and she's just beaming. [...]
However intriguing one might find Gerry McCann's reference to his reverie being 'shattered,' or the verbatim repetition of his 'proud father moment' anecdote, the more revealing aspect of his response to the interviewer's question is the opener; the description, ostensibly, of his strongest memory of Madeleine from that day, which turns out not to be a particularly vivid memory of Madeleine at all, but the description of a photograph in which both Gerry McCann and his daughter Madeleine appear. As Gerry says:

"I think the strongest memory I have is of really, the photograph."

The 'last photograph we have of her' gives nothing away as regards the date it was taken but that is not the crux of the matter.

When Gerry speaks of his strongest memory being of a photograph he means exactly that. He does not describe his memory of accompanying two children by the pool and being photographed at the time. Oh no. He describes the photograph, from the onlooker's point of view:

"...just after lunch we went over to the pool area and, errr... she was sitting there paddling in the pool and I was sitting next to her and she turned round and she's just beaming."

Look at the photograph in question. Gerry is staring directly at the camera from behind a pair of sunglasses. Madeleine, a sun hat shielding her face, has turned away to her left with a broad smile. But from their relative positions at the time the shutter was pressed, Gerry would not have been able to tell whether Madeleine was beaming, frowning or crying. 'She's just beaming' is a description of what Madeleine looks like to anyone viewing the photograph. It is not a personal recollection of Gerry McCann's, the father who, despite attempts at convincing the PJ that his memory actually improved with time, has, five years on, a stronger memory of a photograph (its details, by virtue of the photograph's very existence, do not need to be remembered) than he does of a later interaction with Madeleine; an interaction which, in keeping with well-documented 'recency effects' in memory (last item(s) in a series best recalled), should constitute the stronger recollection, being nearer in time and, by definition, the last experience of its kind.

Amnesia apart, there are two reasons in particular why anyone should be unable to recollect the fundamental detail of a significant personal interaction: They have either forgotten all about it (it was not that significant after all), or the memory was not established in the first instance, i.e., what was supposed to have happened did not.

unquote
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Post  Carolina Thu 28 Feb - 20:01

ann_chovey wrote:
Re the 'should the bouganvillea be in bloom or not' scenario, they could have been bought in as greenhouse grown plants to 'prettify' the pool area. Many campsites do spruce up their most popular areas this way as harsh winters and summer droughts cause casualties.

I think that this is highly unlikely because if a bougainvilla plant is there it is there forever and not changed regularly. I have seen this at the resorts where I worked and the most they do is prune them.
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Post  ELI Thu 28 Feb - 20:46

[quote="jd16"]Where has Maddie gone?
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Look at the grey shadow on the white chair behind gerry, imo that shadow is coloured in, & if so someone has photoshopped the so called original.
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Post  tigger Thu 28 Feb - 21:01

Is it possible for someone to put a properly sized head on Maddie's body looking forward instead of sideways? In life drawing I often advised the class to assume the pose they are drawing. It gives them an idea of the weight distribution and tensions in the body.
This pose is very difficult to hold and unnatural. Imo there' s a lot wrong with the neck. It could just be Maddie's head that's been pasted in on a smaller girls' body.
If she saw something interesting on her left, it's more likely she'd have relaxed the left arm.
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Post  kitti Thu 28 Feb - 21:34

Iris wrote:
Panda wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:C.Edwards, I can perfectly deal with your boring arrogant posts where you lecture everybody and try to amaze us all with your incomparable expertise. I sense they are important to your self esteem so I just skim through them as quickly as possible insuring simply that you are not disrespecting anyone. Being rude and obnoxious to long time respected posters of this forum is, however, intolerable. And the next time you do it, you will be out of here without further explanation. You registered here a long time ago and barely posted. You did, however, find this forum useful to whine when you got kicked out from elsewhere and from then on you seem to think that you can treat people in a disrespectful patronising way. You can't. This forum is not your stage.
I havn.t posted on Missing Madeleine for several days because I am bored with the repetition of topics and just read the last couple of pages to see if the subject had any new evidence. I must say I am appalled that AnnaEsse could be so rude and you come in and back her up, You are both Moderators Claudia and your job is to keep order on the forum, not participate, with Iris, in attacking c edwards with no valid reason. We have had our share of upsets and settled down to a Forum where although we may not agree with posters views, we respect them and c edwards has been singled out when as far as I could tell he was replying to posts , not
trying to prove his expertise..
Don't bother to reply to this post because I won't be looking in again.

Did you miss the part where he told me that I clearly had the intelligence of a boot?




Would that be a leather or suede boot, Iris?
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Post  Lioned Thu 28 Feb - 21:44

Maybe a car boot ?
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Post  SashaM Thu 28 Feb - 22:37

tigger wrote:Is it possible for someone to put a properly sized head on Maddie's body looking forward instead of sideways? In life drawing I often advised the class to assume the pose they are drawing. It gives them an idea of the weight distribution and tensions in the body.
This pose is very difficult to hold and unnatural. Imo there' s a lot wrong with the neck. It could just be Maddie's head that's been pasted in on a smaller girls' body.
If she saw something interesting on her left, it's more likely she'd have relaxed the left arm.
It’s far from perfect, but is this the sort of thing you were after Tigger? I've reversed her head so that she appears to be looking forward...or did you need a completely different head on the body?

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Post  Loopdaloop Fri 1 Mar - 0:04

For me there is two compelling reasons why it is highly probable that the photo has been photoshopped.

1) we know kate and gerry liked a bit of computer mastery. There is a documentary showing them
Looking at photos on a computerdesigning anposter (it may have been the 'look' poster) but on the side there is a photograph printed that was a definite edited version of another that was used in the media. My brain is tired at the moment so cant think which it was but it was a famous one.

2) it is a very very sensitive subject! The subject always gets a reaction from certain quarters.

I believe it is possible that this will form part of a strong argument should anything ever go to trial!
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Post  jd16 Fri 1 Mar - 0:43

Put it this way...they only needed the background...they can then photoshop anything into it...Even our resident photoshop expert C Edwards/Professor can tell you this much (If this suits his agenda)

The Last Photo (again) - Page 7 Transition2zd4

The Maddie in the poolside photo was probably taken from this photo-shoot below...The one done in the UK and had other "photos' of Maddie lying on her back in a suggestive manner...Why gerry mccann had to come back to the UK on May 19th and before release some 3 weeks later on May 24th...Maddie's hair is perfectly groomed the same, even though a bit wet at the ends in the pool photo below..use your imagination when the hair is dry and not so tied back..even though her neck & shoulder is so weird in the pool photo below, not just the water reflection (the bead was added so clearly that it stands out a mile)

The Last Photo (again) - Page 7 Zzmaddiepic40

The Last Photo (again) - Page 7 Zzmaddiepic37.jpg.w300h214
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Post  tigger Fri 1 Mar - 8:38

@ Loopadaloop Shasham and JD16!

Thanks! Loopadaloop is right, dissecting the photos brings in a lot of adverse comment. Obviously a sensitive subject. Good, so we know that at least!

Shasham and JD16 -
Exactly what I had in mind. Compare the body size of a just 2 yr old and a as good as 4 yr old as well. No way. Besides, Amelie is petite, much smaller than her brother. So the body in pink is never a 4 yr old's body, or/and Amelie has been pasted in too big.
In the Donegal photo the relative size of the children is also thrown out of kilter by the too small body under Maddie's face. Same body?
Then the playground photos are size-wise strange because if the jumping girl stood up straight, she'd be a lot taller than 90 cm.

It can also be seen that in this shot there is no eyeliner for a change. It's present in a lot of photographs. Even in the swimming pool one above.


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Post  margaret Fri 1 Mar - 9:40

tigger wrote:
It can also be seen that in this shot there is no eyeliner for a change. It's present in a lot of photographs. Even in the swimming pool one above.


I don't see eyeliner, and no make up apart from the infamous photo. I can't believe you'd think a small child would wear eyeliner regularly enough to be in lots of photos.
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Post  Guest Fri 1 Mar - 10:47

margaret wrote:
tigger wrote:
It can also be seen that in this shot there is no eyeliner for a change. It's present in a lot of photographs. Even in the swimming pool one above.


I don't see eyeliner, and no make up apart from the infamous photo. I can't believe you'd think a small child would wear eyeliner regularly enough to be in lots of photos.

TBH I can't see eyeliner either, apart from the "Maybelline" picture. I do however believe her hair was highlighted, and it's a big ask for a toddler to sit for through-the-bag highlights.
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Post  ProfessorPlum Fri 1 Mar - 11:13

margaret wrote:
tigger wrote:
It can also be seen that in this shot there is no eyeliner for a change. It's present in a lot of photographs. Even in the swimming pool one above.


I don't see eyeliner, and no make up apart from the infamous photo. I can't believe you'd think a small child would wear eyeliner regularly enough to be in lots of photos.



Nor do I.
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Post  dazedandconfused Fri 1 Mar - 13:11

Is it just me, or do Madeleine's teeth look really different in some pictures to others. Really gappy in some of the supposed recent photographs, whereas I would have thought that as she got older and more teeth came through, the gaps would be smaller. Obviously I know nothing and just speculating, but it does bother me that in no two pictures do the teeth ever look the same.
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Post  jd16 Fri 1 Mar - 13:16

dazedandconfused wrote:Is it just me, or do Madeleine's teeth look really different in some pictures to others. Really gappy in some of the supposed recent photographs, whereas I would have thought that as she got older and more teeth came through, the gaps would be smaller. Obviously I know nothing and just speculating, but it does bother me that in no two pictures do the teeth ever look the same.

No it is not just you. This is because not all the photos are of the same girl
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Post  jd16 Fri 1 Mar - 13:18

tigger wrote:@ Loopadaloop Shasham and JD16!

Thanks! Loopadaloop is right, dissecting the photos brings in a lot of adverse comment. Obviously a sensitive subject. Good, so we know that at least!

Shasham and JD16 -
Exactly what I had in mind. Compare the body size of a just 2 yr old and a as good as 4 yr old as well. No way. Besides, Amelie is petite, much smaller than her brother. So the body in pink is never a 4 yr old's body, or/and Amelie has been pasted in too big.
In the Donegal photo the relative size of the children is also thrown out of kilter by the too small body under Maddie's face. Same body?
Then the playground photos are size-wise strange because if the jumping girl stood up straight, she'd be a lot taller than 90 cm.

It can also be seen that in this shot there is no eyeliner for a change. It's present in a lot of photographs. Even in the swimming pool one above.


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Compare Amelie in this poolside photo to the ones in the media in May/June 2007 and how smaller & skinnier she became!
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Post  dazedandconfused Fri 1 Mar - 13:23

jd16 wrote:
dazedandconfused wrote:Is it just me, or do Madeleine's teeth look really different in some pictures to others. Really gappy in some of the supposed recent photographs, whereas I would have thought that as she got older and more teeth came through, the gaps would be smaller. Obviously I know nothing and just speculating, but it does bother me that in no two pictures do the teeth ever look the same.

No it is not just you. This is because not all the photos are of the same girl

It does seem like that.
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Post  jd16 Fri 1 Mar - 13:30

Talking of photoshop photos...how photoshopped is this one!!!!

The Last Photo (again) - Page 7 Zzmaddiepic79
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Post  ProfessorPlum Fri 1 Mar - 13:45

Looks ok to me and what would be the point???
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Post  jd16 Fri 1 Mar - 13:51

ProfessorPlum wrote:Looks ok to me and what would be the point???

You're joking?
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Post  AnnaEsse Fri 1 Mar - 14:08

jd16 wrote:Talking of photoshop photos...how photoshopped is this one!!!!

The Last Photo (again) - Page 7 Zzmaddiepic79

I'd tidy that one up and even my Kodak software would do an adequate job on it.
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Post  ProfessorPlum Fri 1 Mar - 14:36

jd16 wrote:
ProfessorPlum wrote:Looks ok to me and what would be the point???

You're joking?


No why?
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Post  dazedandconfused Fri 1 Mar - 14:43

I'd never have been able to pick Madeleine out even immediately after she went missing. She looks totally different in each picture - I'm assuming the little girl in pink is Madeleine? Teeth again not the same as other pictures of her if it is.
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Post  ann_chovey Fri 1 Mar - 14:53

jd16 wrote:
ProfessorPlum wrote:Looks ok to me and what would be the point???

You're joking?

That's Madeleine and Amelie with Uncle John's children. Which bit do you think is photoshopped?
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Post  Guest Fri 1 Mar - 15:22

This photo was I imagine taken around Christmas of 2005. The noticeable thing for me is the difference in Cousin Fiona less than 16 months later in Donegal.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/m/family.jpg

That's some amazing growth spurt!
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