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Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

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Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  Annabel on Fri 22 Mar - 12:57

http://www.examiner.com/article/madeleine-mccann-update-who-s-being-accused-this-time



Madeleine McCann update: Who's being accused this time?


Chelsea Hoffman via Examiner 2012


The disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains internationally relevant even though it's been the better part of a decade since she vanished. Over the course of the past few years it seems like every single person that can be accused of kidnapping her, has been accused of kidnapping her -- even though Portuguese officials made it clear in the very beginning where evidence pointed to in this case. As of March 21, 2013 there are new accusations rising against a cleaning crew who were around The Algarve vacation resort when Maddie vanished. Will these accusations lead to finality in this epic case or will this "lead" dry out like every single other one so far?

The British cleaning crew reportedly had use of a white van around the time of the child's disappearance, and is believed to had been cleaning apartments at the time. Detectives want to find these cleaners and question them in order to find out whether or not they saw or heard anything -- or if they themselves kidnapped little Maddie. This comes in the middle of bizarre allegations that a child kidnapping ring has operated in Portugal and other parts of Europe with "abducted to order" children for pedophiles or whoever else wants to illegally obtain a child.

Even after six years and no proof of an actual kidnapping, the parents of Madeleine McCann have never faced charges for the blatant child neglect that took place the night she vanished. Kate and Gerry McCann left the toddler alone with her two younger siblings -- to sleep unattended in a rental apartment -- while they drank with friends at a bar area over 130 yards away. Had they not made this mistake it's likely that little Maddie would still be here today instead of missing -- presumed dead if you read the evidence here. It's a shame to see such poor parenting go unpunished, even in the face of a missing or murdered child. At the very least it seems that the justice system in either Portugal or the UK would make an example of the McCanns to educate other parents in similar events. While Maddie remains missing and multiple people accused of being responsible, it appears that some very important elements of the case are being ignored.

Is it likely that the cleaning crew kidnapped Madeleine McCann? Sure it is, but if they did why not abducted her two younger siblings as well? Why abducted a single toddler and leave behind two similarly aged children? This doesn't fit with the behavior of kidnappers who have the perfect opportunity and environment to pull off such an abduction. Is it likely that Maddie wandered out of the apartment while her parents frivolously drank the night away, only to wander into the arms of a predator? Yes, that is absolutely likely, but where do we go from there? And even if that were likely, the McCann Files (shared above) clearly shares the evidence that there is no sign of Maddie leaving the apartment, nor were there ever any signs of forced entry. So this case may just forever remain a mystery.

See also:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/



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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  T4two on Fri 22 Mar - 13:19

Oh dear! The dogs Chelsea - what about the dogs? Aren't the dogs providing sufficient indicative evidence for you that the child never left the apartment alive? What's all this stuff about cleaners, opportunity, woke and wandered? We've been through all this so many times - why write about it again? Poor article IMO. My advice - ask the dogs and then try again.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  Panda on Fri 22 Mar - 18:47

Thanks Annabel,
Is it likely that Maddie wandered out of the apartment while her parents frivolously drank the night away, only to wander into the arms of a predator? Yes, that is absolutely likely, but where do we go from there?"
Tut Tut ........would Madeleine wander out of the Apartment? Hardly likely since two nights previousl;y she had cried for an hour in her bed , rather than venture out into the dark.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  susible on Fri 22 Mar - 23:28

T4two wrote:Oh dear! The dogs Chelsea - what about the dogs? Aren't the dogs providing sufficient indicative evidence for you that the child never left the apartment alive? What's all this stuff about cleaners, opportunity, woke and wandered? We've been through all this so many times - why write about it again? Poor article IMO. My advice - ask the dogs and then try again.

I hear what you're saying, but I think Chelsea is going for the "okay so if we are to assume this poor child is not dead and was abducted from the apartment, then it's still the fault of the parents" angle

which is to be commended in the face of the constant onslaught of "The parents are totally innocent" angle that the press and retired detectives want the public to believe

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  T4two on Fri 22 Mar - 23:41

susible wrote:
T4two wrote:Oh dear! The dogs Chelsea - what about the dogs? Aren't the dogs providing sufficient indicative evidence for you that the child never left the apartment alive? What's all this stuff about cleaners, opportunity, woke and wandered? We've been through all this so many times - why write about it again? Poor article IMO. My advice - ask the dogs and then try again.

I hear what you're saying, but I think Chelsea is going for the "okay so if we are to assume this poor child is not dead and was abducted from the apartment, then it's still the fault of the parents" angle

which is to be commended in the face of the constant onslaught of "The parents are totally innocent" angle that the press and retired detectives want the public to believe

No way can anyone who is familiar with the case pretend that Madeleine is still alive and retain any credibility whatsoever, and certainly not someone who calls herself a criminologist.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  kitti on Sat 23 Mar - 8:54

' And even if that were likely, the McCann Files (shared above) clearly shares the evidence that there is no sign of Maddie leaving the apt'..


She doesn't have to mention the dogs just read the files...


She is not saying Madeleine left the apt on her own accord, what she is saying is......a.. If she did and met her fate whilst being left alone, then it is the MCCANNS turn to to get The blame and...b....but their is evidence that she NEVER left the apt that night , just read the mccannfiles to see the evidence off that.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  T4two on Sat 23 Mar - 14:46

In the UK if a person has disappeared from your home and there is no indication of outside interference, but plenty of indications that you are involved in some way - they bring in cadaver and blood detection dogs as standard procedure. God help you if those dogs mark cadaver odour and blood in or around your home. You'd better have a damn good explanation and not spout a load of rubbish about poopy nappies or nose bleeds or dead bodies at work and stuff like that. And you wouldn't be well advised to come out with clever-ass remarks such as, "Ask the dogs", either. As a detective from Leicestershire Constabulary remarked at the time, "In England I've arrested people for less," or words to that effect.
Over the years I have noticed that the biggest thing that spooks the McCanns and followers is those pesky dogs. Everything can be explained away, including the miniscule window of opportunity, but those dogs cannot be explained away. It is the dogs which indicate to the police that Madeleine is dead and that her remains were in the McCanns' apartment for a period of time sufficient for cadaver odour to have formed. That odour will not go away and neither can the McCanns explain it away. That is why in my book, anyone who comes up with an opinion on this case and talks about a chance of the child still being alive is doing the cause of justice for Madeleine a great disservice. IMO it's ten times worse if that person has the gall to describe herself as a criminologist. I am not a criminologist and yet I still can understand the significance of the dogs in this and will not cease to point it out until the case has been solved.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  kitti on Sun 24 Mar - 8:22

I can forgive people that ignore the dogs findings I.e. Their Facebook page is full off them.


I can even ignore certain criminologists for doing so BUT I cannot ignore or forgive Retired police officers I.e. Horrocks, the Mccanns two retired police officers and SY and the MET for totally ignoring the dogs findings when they have used them in the past even successfully prosecuting and jailing people without having found the body.


This to me is the worse disservice they could give to a human being AND it being a small child makes it worse even though everything points to a death they stand there with the same smirk gerry mccann has and have the front to say she is alive ....


I have lost all respect for SY and the MET....

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 24 Mar - 8:56

kitti wrote:I can forgive people that ignore the dogs findings I.e. Their Facebook page is full off them.


I can even ignore certain criminologists for doing so BUT I cannot ignore or forgive Retired police officers I.e. Horrocks, the Mccanns two retired police officers and SY and the MET for totally ignoring the dogs findings when they have used them in the past even successfully prosecuting and jailing people without having found the body.


This to me is the worse disservice they could give to a human being AND it being a small child makes it worse even though everything points to a death they stand there with the same smirk gerry mccann has and have the front to say she is alive ....


I have lost all respect for SY and the MET....

Well said kitti


_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  cass on Sun 24 Mar - 9:18

well said kitti -- as a mother and a nannan the findings of the dogs would have been the shes gone moment -now kates remarks regarding tending to 6 bodies -- dirty nappies etc etc -- only makes her more guilty of the remarks -- any mother would be asking questions why where how -- how can she trust all the people around her now ? and the outside family they have seen on the news the fantasic jobs these dogs have done since 2007 -- only last week a poor lady was found in the uk -- tia sharpe case -- what must the family think now?

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 24 Mar - 13:00

This portion of the article highlights how just mentioning the 'neglect' gives a subliminal suggestion that Madeleine disappeared because of it.

the parents of Madeleine McCann have never faced charges for the blatant child neglect that took place the night she vanished. Kate and Gerry McCann left the toddler alone with her two younger siblings -- to sleep unattended in a rental apartment -- while they drank with friends at a bar area over 130 yards away
.

the McCanns have hidden behind that smokescreen for too long imo...Its time the REAL truth of the simulated abduction that night was highlighted.

Neglect is irrelevant for that night if Madeleine was already dead!

SY? Operation Grange?

Accusations of 'whitewash'?

They have released nothing of importance....Everything has remained secret EXCEPT the one thing they could say freely..

They wouldn't have said what they released to the media if it was of importance.

My opinion is that they have not released ANY relevant information so how could anyone make any judgement about the process?

I have complete faith in the review...What happens with it in the higher echelons MAY make a difference but I believe the review is competent with all the details necessary to come to the correct conclusion.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  kitti on Sun 24 Mar - 13:50

The reason I say this about SY and the MET.


Going on tv and saying .....and showing and doing and updated picture off Madeleine...she could be dead or she could be alive.


That...and I'm sorry to have go repeat it.....to me, is totally disrespectful to Madeleine....


Dont know what SY or the MET's outcome will be...do they have an agenda , I don't know BUT the only incy piece off HOPE I had was when they said she could be DEAD or she could be ALIVE, at least they didn't say she's definitely alive and that's that but doing an updated picture was quite sickening to me and stank off the Mccanns.


There making themselves look ridiculous and incompetent and that worries me.


Why did they go on tv and state this, they didn't have to, who made them do it that's what I want to know . I live in hope that it was all a ploy to cover up what SY and the MET are really doing regarding getting enough evidence to convict the Mccanns off at least 'abusing a corpse', when all said and done, that's what they have done and are STILL doing metaphorically aren't they.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  malena stool on Sun 24 Mar - 17:44

kitti posted:-
'They're making themselves look ridiculous and incompetent and that worries me.'

 photo keystonecops1_zps4607f281.jpg

SY and the Met...Hot on the Trail of the truth...

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  kitti on Sun 24 Mar - 20:32

I hope you are right i really do.


I hope they are privately gathering evidence.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  malena stool on Sun 24 Mar - 21:50

kitti wrote:I hope you are right i really do.


I hope they are privately gathering evidence.
The fact that investigators may be keeping data from the McCanns might be a worry for TM, but given the evidence has been stacked against their pantomime version of events being true since Madeleine vanished and still no action has been taken against them. In truth they have been feted, sainted almost, by both the media, Missing Children's Organisations and consecutive Governments, so they are quite likely home and dry... I hope my thoughts are wrong and the truth will out, but Social Services and Child Protection Agencies were and have remained silent about the McCann's abysmal and irresponsible attitude of parenting and leaving their children alone while they went in search of freebie plonk. Canine evidence in Madeleine's case has never been validated as an acceptable evidential tool by our media, who were only too ready to publicise Dr Gerry's pathetic condemnation of Eddie and Keela.
In reality every piece of adverse data forensic or otherwise has been forgotten and ignored by the police, the media and ministers of the crown who should not be involved in the case of a missing child anyway.
Sorry I've ranted a bit there...




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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  MaryB on Sun 24 Mar - 22:58

Unattended in a rented apartment while they were 130 yards away. Three children, one aged three and two others aged two were left home alone. Disgraceful by anybody's standards. A bit different from the usual rubbish of hotel room whilst parents dined next door.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  HiDeHo on Mon 25 Mar - 3:32

MaryB wrote:Unattended in a rented apartment while they were 130 yards away. Three children, one aged three and two others aged two were left home alone. Disgraceful by anybody's standards. A bit different from the usual rubbish of hotel room whilst parents dined next door.

Do you feel this was why Madeleine disappeared or do you think that Madeleine had already died and they were planning the abduction?

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  weissnicht on Mon 25 Mar - 4:48

kitti wrote:I can forgive people that ignore the dogs findings I.e. Their Facebook page is full off them.


I can even ignore certain criminologists for doing so BUT I cannot ignore or forgive Retired police officers I.e. Horrocks, the Mccanns two retired police officers and SY and the MET for totally ignoring the dogs findings when they have used them in the past even successfully prosecuting and jailing people without having found the body.


This to me is the worse disservice they could give to a human being AND it being a small child makes it worse even though everything points to a death they stand there with the same smirk gerry mccann has and have the front to say she is alive ....


I have lost all respect for SY and the MET....
And me.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  weissnicht on Mon 25 Mar - 4:54

HiDeHo wrote:
MaryB wrote:Unattended in a rented apartment while they were 130 yards away. Three children, one aged three and two others aged two were left home alone. Disgraceful by anybody's standards. A bit different from the usual rubbish of hotel room whilst parents dined next door.

Do you feel this was why Madeleine disappeared or do you think that Madeleine had already died and they were planning the abduction?
Chelsea says that she thinks Maddie is gone (abducted, wndered) because of neglect, otherwise she would be still here. I agree only if Amarals theorie is true. She fell, and died because parents were gone for a while. Amaral sound right, and fits with dog findings.

I have found no reason to mistrust Amaral and his team conclusion.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  kitti on Mon 25 Mar - 7:45

I believe Madeleine died before may 3rd and all what they had to do was played out in front off the world before then.


Thursday was different as one off the tapas lot has said....it was a 'steer clear off Mccanns ' day and I believe they did, the rest were too bothered getting in their own alibis set in stone to bother with the Mccanns .


People have, past 6 years, been asked to think about may 3rd especially people on that holiday ...what they did that day etc....the deed was done and dusted before that day, thursday was 'opening night' and they had better get it right as they had only one chance at doing this.


There bad actors.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  MaryB on Mon 25 Mar - 10:02

I certainly don't think it's very likely an abductor went into the apartment and took Madeleine. There is absolutely no proof of that happening whatsoever. But as to the rest of it all I'm not sure what scenario is the likeliest. Youl would think the police would be working that one out. But they don't seem to have so far. And if they have then somebody certainly didn't like their conclusions.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  weissnicht on Mon 25 Mar - 10:28

MaryB wrote:I certainly don't think it's very likely an abductor went into the apartment and took Madeleine. There is absolutely no proof of that happening whatsoever. But as to the rest of it all I'm not sure what scenario is the likeliest. Youl would think the police would be working that one out. But they don't seem to have so far. And if they have then somebody certainly didn't like their conclusions.
mccanns have insisted that Maddie would/could NOT leave the apartment. Very odd, imo.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  tigger on Mon 25 Mar - 10:45

kitti wrote:I believe Madeleine died before may 3rd and all what they had to do was played out in front off the world before then.


Thursday was different as one off the tapas lot has said....it was a 'steer clear off Mccanns ' day and I believe they did, the rest were too bothered getting in their own alibis set in stone to bother with the Mccanns .


People have, past 6 years, been asked to think about may 3rd especially people on that holiday ...what they did that day etc....the deed was done and dusted before that day, thursday was 'opening night' and they had better get it right as they had only one chance at doing this.


There bad actors.

Eastender school of acting Kitty!

I think the trouble with this whole affair originates with the people who have dreamt it up. The public's been blinded by the fact that they're doctors!.
The inferences have been:
Doctors wouldn't hurt their children.
Doctors would not dream up such an unbelievable story, they're intelligent, they're doctors...
So it must be true, because intelligent people would not have constructed this impossible story..

But vain and narcissistic people do that sort of thing and expect to be believed - they've gotten away with it all their lives so far so why change the formula?
'This has happened because I say it's happened'.

By the law of averages, the vain and narcissistic can also be doctors, about the same percentage as in other walks of life.

To add - I've met lots of doctors who have low to average IQ, including my present GP. For the sake of my health I try to avoid him.


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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  T4two on Mon 25 Mar - 13:28

The fact remains that the press and PR machine have avoided the dogs' findings like the plague I suspect because they have no credible explanation to offer. It is therefore of paramount importance that this information is put into the public domain as frequently as possible. When criminologists and ex coppers are given a platform to comment in public on the Madeleine case and do not use it to stress the significance of the dogs' findings, it isn't just an unfortunate omission it is actively supporting the parents' statement that there is no evidence to suggest that Madeleine is no longer alive. The dogs findings are unequivocal and the most important fact of the whole case.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

Post  HiDeHo on Mon 25 Mar - 14:32

Goncalo Amaral would be limited to any of his comments being concluded from the Official Police Files investigation that are released to the public. That would include witness statements that may or may not be confirmed.

His OPINION/CONCLUSION may be based on the information from the vast amount of files NOT released.

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Re: Who's being accused this time?/Chelsea Hoffman

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