Missing Madeleine
Come join us...there's more inside you cannot see as a guest!

Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  Wintabells on Tue 21 May - 4:34

Madeleine McCann’s Parents Get Fresh Hope as Operation Grange by Barbie Latza Nadeau May 20, 2013 4:45 AM EDT
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/20/madeleine-mccann-s-parents-get-fresh-hope-as-operation-grange-ids-20.html

Buoyed by the escape of three Cleveland women held for a decade, Madeleine McCann’s parents now have a new lead: 20 ‘persons of interest’ who may have details of her 2007 disappearance.

It is hard to imagine the roller-coaster nightmare that Madeleine McCann’s parents must be going through. Six years have passed since Madeleine, then just shy of her 4th birthday, disappeared from a vacation apartment in the Algarve, Portugal, where she and her younger twin siblings were asleep. Her parents, Kate and Gerry, were considered primary suspects early on in the investigation by haphazard Portuguese police who focused erroneously on the couple from the moment the young girl disappeared, likely letting the real suspects escape justice. They also have been chastised in the court of public opinion for leaving their young children unattended in the gated community while they dined with friends at a tapas bar about 50 yards away, even though the adults took turns checking on the sleeping children every half-hour. They have endured a nasty Internet hate campaign, with Kate receiving regular death threats. Their hopes have been raised by numerous sightings of their daughter on German airplanes, Spanish campgrounds, and New Zealand supermarkets, only to be dashed as each lookalike child proves not to be young Madeleine.

Now the McCanns have been given a new reason to be optimistic. They were bolstered earlier this month by news of the Cleveland trio of kidnapping victims who escaped alive after a decade in captivity. “Their recovery is also further evidence that children are sometimes abducted and kept for long periods,” the McCanns said in a statement after the Ohio case came to light. “So we ask the public to remain vigilant in the ongoing search for Madeleine. Our thoughts are with the women in America and their families.”

Over the weekend, they were given even more fresh hope after Scotland Yard investigators, reviewing the work of the Portuguese police under a multimillion-dollar shadow investigation called Operation Grange, said they had pinpointed more than 20 “persons of interest” who may have vital information about Madeleine’s disappearance. The list includes many previously known characters, including a troupe of British freelance cleaners whose white van was spotted in the area when she disappeared. But there are also plenty of new names on the list, including a middle-aged mystery couple who supposedly rented a flat near the McCanns during the same period in 2007. The couple, whose names have not been released, told Pamela Fenn, who lived above the McCann rental apartment, that they had opened the unlocked door to the McCanns’ apartment the night before Madeleine disappeared to comfort the young child, whose cries were allegedly audible from their own apartment.

According to Fenn’s statement, it was well known that the McCanns had made it a habit to dine nearby after they put their children to bed, but it was also a common practice by other holidaymakers in the secure gated resort. It also was reportedly common knowledge that the young child’s cries were heard on more than one occasion when her parents were out, according to Fenn’s statement, which is in the Portuguese dossier and thus subject to Scotland Yard’s review. Fenn, who died two years ago, told Portuguese police about the couple, but because police were so focused on the McCanns as suspects, they apparently did not find the mystery couple’s alleged interference with the missing child relevant. Now Scotland Yard officials reportedly are urging the Portuguese police to reopen the case and find both the mystery couple and the British cleaners. Because of jurisdiction issues, only the Portuguese police can make arrests in the case, which has been officially closed in Portugal since 2008, making it vitally important that they reopen the case to pursue any new evidence laid bare by the Operation Grange detectives.

The British detectives also have pointed to a number of undocumented laborers worth checking out, from clandestine maintenance workers to seasonal gardeners who were working in the black-market economy and who may not have been sufficiently vetted to work in a family resort. And there were reportedly a number of apartments in the resort that were rented out under the radar to avoid taxes. Those renters would not have had to register their passports to stay on the premises.


A computer-generated "age processed" image of what police believe Madeline McCann may look like at age 9. (Teri Blythe/London Metropolitan Police)

The McCanns are ‘greatly encouraged that police have drawn up a short list of people who they believe are of interest to the inquiry.’
The McCanns have not given an official statement on the news of the new suspects in the case, but according to British press reports, their spokesperson said they were optimistic about the news: “They have been encouraged from the moment the review started and are now greatly encouraged that police have drawn up a short list of people who they believe are of interest to the inquiry.”

But like so many of the false starts and abrupt twists and turns of this six-year saga, not even the best new leads will mean anything until the McCanns have their daughter back—or at least find out the truth about what really happened to her the night she disappeared.


Wintabells
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1329
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-02-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  jinvta on Tue 21 May - 5:11

This is no "mystery couple." If the names have not been released, then they must know the names of the couple. Surely if they had abducted a child, they would not go blabbing that they had entered the apartment the night before! Further, why have we not seen Mrs. Fenn's reference to a middle aged couple in the released files? I highly doubt that there is such a reference, particularly given that Mrs. Fenn heard the crying two nights before Madeleine went missing.

jinvta
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1065
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2010-01-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  Wintabells on Tue 21 May - 5:17

I agree, the whole 'middle-aged couple' saga seems weird. I don't believe anyone would go inside someone's apartment to comfort a crying child. The most one might do would be to go and talk to the security staff or whatever. Where on earth has this story come from, I wonder?

Wintabells
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1329
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-02-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  jinvta on Tue 21 May - 5:25

Exactly! Nobody in their right mind would enter a stranger's apartment just to comfort a crying child! If a couple were seen entering the apartment on the Wednesday night, it would likely have been one of the tapas couples on their way back from dinner. It is very hard to believe that two separate witnesses saw a couple entering the apartment the night before, yet nobody saw anybody enter the apartment on the night of the disappearance. Even if true, why has this reference to a middle aged couple been removed from Mrs. Fenn's statement in the released files, only to be released now? In fact, from her witness statement her only reference to May 2nd, is as follows "On Wednesday she has nothing to report, because she only was home at night." If some couple had indeed told her that they had entered the apartment, then surely she would not have stated that she had nothing to report.

jinvta
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1065
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2010-01-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  tigger on Tue 21 May - 7:13

Wintabells wrote:I agree, the whole 'middle-aged couple' saga seems weird. I don't believe anyone would go inside someone's apartment to comfort a crying child. The most one might do would be to go and talk to the security staff or whatever. Where on earth has this story come from, I wonder?

A 'childless' couple did feature frequently in Kate's early suppositions. This alternated with the paedophile and yet another childless woman from a yacht, but imo this good soothing couple have been re-animated for a reason.
Not for a minute do I believe they exist - is it to wind it all down? Very sad, but a middle-aged couple who took Maddie because they could have no children of their own - we'll keep looking but it's not so urgent as she's obviously being looked after. Plus she's looking OK on that last age advanced - (she looks about 12 imo).

tigger
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Female
Number of posts : 1740
Age : 50
Location : The Hague
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-07-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  kitti on Tue 21 May - 7:30

P.D.L RESIDENT
2412 to 2415 Witness Statement of Pamela Isobel Fenn 2007.08.20
09-Processo 9 Pages 2412 to 2415
 TRANSLATION BY INES
09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2412

09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2413

09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2414

09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2415

Mrs Pamela Fenn 20 August 2007
Mrs Fenns statement, taken in Praia da Luz on the 20th of August 2007:

Included in the files as a witness statement.

Being of British nationality and in spite of living in Portugal, does not have knowledge of the Portuguese language in its oral and written form, therefore a police interpreter is present, UEVE VAN LOOCK. Thus, according to the facts noted in the files, she says that she has lived in the apartment since 2003, which is located on the upper floor, immediately above the room from which the child disappeared.

She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.

When questioned, she said that she did not know the cause of the crying, perhaps a nightmare or another destabilising factor.
As soon as the parents entered the child stopped crying.
That night she contacted a friend called EDNA GLYN, who also lives in Praia da Luz, after 23.00, telling her about the situation, who was not surprised at the childs crying.
She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night.
On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit"
During the day nothing unusual happened, until almost 22.30 when, being alone again, she heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out ?we have let her down? which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. Upon leaning over the terrace, after having seen the mother, Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30.
She said that after the mothers shouts, she had seen many people in the streets looking for the girl. She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.
When asked, she replied that on 3rd May she did not hear any noise from the McCann apartment, not even the opening of doors. She also said that before hearing the shouts she was watching television, as she often stays up late.

When questioned, she said that she never heard any arguments between the couple or with their children. She said that the family would spend much time outside of the apartment and therefore she did not notice their presence.
She said that until that night she had never spoken to the McCann's, because up until the 3rd May, she only sometimes saw them walking in the street. She never saw them with any vehicle.
She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering.

When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence.

Having read and approved the statement, she signs, together with the interpreter.

kitti
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Female
Number of posts : 13376
Age : 106
Location : London
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-06-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  kitti on Tue 21 May - 7:36

When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event.

kitti
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Female
Number of posts : 13376
Age : 106
Location : London
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-06-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  kitti on Tue 21 May - 7:39

The article actually highlights how many times Madeleine cried....and just many people could hear it yet they still went out and dined.


I still think the mccanns were told about this and knew but didn't care.

kitti
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Female
Number of posts : 13376
Age : 106
Location : London
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-06-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  mossman on Tue 21 May - 9:37

kitti wrote:The article actually highlights how many times Madeleine cried....and just many people could hear it yet they still went out and dined.


I still think the mccanns were told about this and knew but didn't care.

Kitti, the child herself told them she cried, they still did not care. For most people embarrassment of strangers telling you your child was alone and crying would be enough to make them take check of their actions. For most people your child telling you she cried would break your heart.


mossman
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1639
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-05-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  cass on Tue 21 May - 9:49

when this case started i was a mother - now im a nana too - i think the way of a nana and no way would my kids leave my grandaughter - i would babysit to know my grandaughrer was safe i would offer help to others too -- could dw and male ? t 10 be the missing couple

cass
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1652
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2010-05-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  MaryB on Tue 21 May - 9:49

This mystery couple business is very mysterious. Couldn't it just have been two of the friends doing their checks. Not sure what to make of this. But it's amazing they weren't traced and interviewed. And as if they'd come forward to say they comforted Madeleine and the next night kidnapped her. Madness!!

MaryB
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1581
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-09-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  Roasted Arizona on Tue 21 May - 10:33

I actually can imagine going into the apartment to comfort a child if I heard it screaming constantly for over an hour. I would be very distressed and would knock on the door until someone answered. I can imagine that if no-one answered me, I might just try the door and if I found it open I would go in to comfort the child.

That said I would probably then phone the police, as I would be very concerned that my intentions would be misunderstood.

If indeed this couple do exist, and they did go in to comfort the child , but didn't call any authority, I can imagine their horror if something happened to the child the very next night. They may be terrified to go forward to the police in case their motives were then called into question.

The more I think about this, the more I believe that the McCanns knew about this couple and maybe even talked with this couple after the event. For years and years we've wondered where the 'they've taken her' comment came from and why she didn't say 'Madeleine's gone, she's been taken' or similar.

There were two little girls abandoned that night, so there is no explanation as to why Kate said 'they've taken her' and for people to know which child she was referring to.

The McCanns were probably too ashamed to admit that total strangers had had to go into their apartment to comfort their child and that they still chose a good drink over the safety of their children..this is why they cobbled together the story about Madeleine speaking to them about why they hadn't come when she was crying. They were very obviously caught on the wrong foot when that little gem came out.


Roasted Arizona
Golden Poster
Golden Poster

Male
Number of posts : 717
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  MaryB on Tue 21 May - 10:37

So if the mystery couple came into the apartment why on earth did Madeleine not mention this. Saying a lady and man came in when I was crying. It's hard to know what to make of this. Except there are more lies than truth in this case it would seem. I wonder if we will ever know what really happened.

MaryB
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1581
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-09-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  Roasted Arizona on Tue 21 May - 10:39

I should imagine Madeleine may well have said that a man and lady came in....we only have the McCanns word that she didn't, and we all know how trustworthy they seem to be!

Roasted Arizona
Golden Poster
Golden Poster

Male
Number of posts : 717
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  Roasted Arizona on Tue 21 May - 10:44

In fact, thinking about it more, maybe they simply lied by omission......maybe Madeleine said 'why didn't YOU come when we were crying last night'. Madeleine may have said ' a lady and man came in, why didn't YOU' ...if you see what i mean?

Roasted Arizona
Golden Poster
Golden Poster

Male
Number of posts : 717
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  mossman on Tue 21 May - 10:45

We are told she said why didn't you come when I cried. That could mean why did the man and woman come and not you or daddy, if you see what I'm trying to say. Same as why didn't you come (daddy did) why was it not you mummy.


mossman
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1639
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-05-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  mossman on Tue 21 May - 10:46

Roasted Arizona wrote:In fact, thinking about it more, maybe they simply lied by omission......maybe Madeleine said 'why didn't YOU come when we were crying last night'. Madeleine may have said ' a lady and man came in, why didn't YOU' ...if you see what i mean?

We posted at the same time

mossman
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1639
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-05-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  Roasted Arizona on Tue 21 May - 10:49

Great minds think alike

Roasted Arizona
Golden Poster
Golden Poster

Male
Number of posts : 717
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  AnnaEsse on Tue 21 May - 11:15

Roasted Arizona wrote:Great minds think alike

I was thinking that too! So, I'll join this band of great minds!


_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

AnnaEsse
Administrator
Administrator

Female
Number of posts : 18467
Age : 105
Location : Casa Nostra
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-09-23

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  mara thon on Tue 21 May - 11:19

Personally I don't believe a word of this ridiculous story, I think it's just another "stay out of jail" card for the Mccanns. The buckets of whitewash are still being filled.

mara thon
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 7063
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  AnnaEsse on Tue 21 May - 11:29

mara thon wrote:Personally I don't believe a word of this ridiculous story, I think it's just another "stay out of jail" card for the Mccanns. The buckets of whitewash are still being filled.

It does seem to present the McCanns with an explanation for why Madeleine asked, "Why didn't you come...?" They could easily have set this up themselves: now we know why Maddie said that!

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

AnnaEsse
Administrator
Administrator

Female
Number of posts : 18467
Age : 105
Location : Casa Nostra
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-09-23

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  Wintabells on Tue 21 May - 11:37

Didn't Madeleine allegedly ask 'Where were you last night when me and Sean cried?' as opposed to 'why didn't you come?'

Not that it makes much difference if the whole thing is a fantasy.

On another note - wasn't there a story that they were 'dining' at Chaplins earlier in the week and had to be told to return to the apartment as their children were crying? Is it possible that the comforting couple were connected with this story in some way?

Wintabells
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1329
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-02-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  fred on Tue 21 May - 11:47

Wintabells wrote:Didn't Madeleine allegedly ask 'Where were you last night when me and Sean cried?' as opposed to 'why didn't you come?'

Not that it makes much difference if the whole thing is a fantasy.

On another note - wasn't there a story that they were 'dining' at Chaplins earlier in the week and had to be told to return to the apartment as their children were crying? Is it possible that the comforting couple were connected with this story in some way?

There have been different versions of the Chaplins story. One was someone complained the children were crying so an employee of the OC went round the village in a golf buggy until he found them there. Another one was the story was true, but no one at Chaplins would either deny or confirm it, bit like the "Did you know Robert Murat" question put to Gerry!

fred
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 4845
Location : Dining in my back garden
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-08-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  tanszi on Tue 21 May - 12:03

I really don't think that anyone would go into a strangers home, holiday or otherwise, because a child was distressed for such a long time. if I heard a child crying that long I would try and get an answer from the door, but I would not go in because I wouldn't know what I would find. id ring the police, or if it was a holiday let and I knew it was such as the Ocean Club, I would go to the reception and tell them about the child, which is alleged someone did. Lets not forget, leaving children without suitable care in Portugal is an offence. jimo. ETA: where does all this leave the findings of the dogs, which are apparently being ignored. jimo.

tanszi
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 3099
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2009-09-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  mossman on Tue 21 May - 12:16

mara thon wrote:Personally I don't believe a word of this ridiculous story, I think it's just another "stay out of jail" card for the Mccanns. The buckets of whitewash are still being filled.


On the one hand yes, you could shout white wash. On the other hand, I think as a story it is terrible. It really brings into question the groups care of their children. I know it was in question to begin with, but there was for some a bit of a grey area, the we have all done it brigade. My opinion of this is that it is a whole different ball game, children left totally exposed to the point where strangers had complete, total and uncontrolled access. Which allows for abduction, but in turn proves everything the tapas has said about their side of things to be totally untrue.

So I cannot see how it works in the McCanns favour - they should be brought up on neglect charges if this is true. As far as using it as a case closed scenario, it does not work either. It throws up more questions than it answers.

My feeling is there is some truth in the original story - there may well be a couple who were concerned about a distressed child. After that it has grown arms and legs in good old tabloid tradition. The person drinking whiskey on the balcony is not new, they spoke previously. Mrs fenn made her statement, they are trying to make a connection that is not there. Perhaps to negate her account of the 1st so there is only one night crying. Who knows they were soothing the child, or for that matter that they are English - were they wearing St George Cross t shirts, singing lullabies ?

Give it a week. If all has stayed quiet I shall be very demoralised. Until then I am going to stay hopeful.

mossman
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 1639
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2011-05-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Mrs Fenn told police about the 'middle aged couple'

Post  Sponsored content Today at 0:14


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum