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Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Annabel on Sat 15 Jun - 15:40

http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/now-we-talking.html

















Saturday, 15 June 2013

Now we're talking…


Kate & Gerry McCann reacting to the good news
"Under the plan, Yard detectives will seek the assistance of the Portuguese to carry out some inquiries on their behalf. British police do not have jurisdiction in Portugal but they have the right to investigate and prosecute any British suspects who might be linked to Madeleine’s disappearance."
As Goncalo Amaral has  said repeatedly, the original investigation was "incomplete" and the Attorney-General's department in the archiving summary detailed the exact ways in which it was incomplete - the common factor was that British persons of interest  were beyond reach. If the review, which we remind readers is a joint review, had led to the re-opening of the case in  Portugal then the authorities there would be faced with exactly the same problem that they had then: no way of forcing those people back, insufficient evidence to seek European arrest warrants and another crisis in Anglo-Portuguese relations as the paid shysters stall,wriggle and spin on behalf of their British clients. That cannot happen now that the Yard are taking over the inquiry. The only British "persons of interest" to the investigation are the holiday group: the others are now dead.
Forget the forthcoming rumours  that the Portuguese will be upset by the decision – that is a Scotland Yard steer and untrue. The fact is that the two countries have finally found a way to cut the Gordian knot. Everyone who wants the truth to come out, such as the parents of the child and their supporters, will naturally welcome the news. Hooray!
at 11:47

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Sat 15 Jun - 21:00

Another muddled up post.....why the hell doesn't BS just say what he means instead ofthis driffle

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Fudge on Sat 15 Jun - 21:37

I am assuming BS means that if Portugal had reopened the case CRuck as extradition lawyers would have made sure none of the tapas ever set foot in Portugal again. This way T9 can be called back in for questioning, are they going to resist? IMO I don't think so.

At least that is what I think BS is saying.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Carolina on Sat 15 Jun - 21:37

I find BS's post very clear. He means that the McCanns are going to have to watch out, things aren't going their way.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  margaret on Sat 15 Jun - 23:07

Carolina wrote:I find BS's post very clear. He means that the McCanns are going to have to watch out, things aren't going their way.

Worse than that. SY are going to take the lead and they can arrest and prosecute those they find guilty from within the UK.

So no need for those fancy extradition lawyers!

Effing brilliant, excuse my language.


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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Lioned on Sat 15 Jun - 23:48

Best to remember Scotland Yard can't prosecute anybody.

All that has changed is that Theresa Mays given them more money to look for the fictitious spotty man.

 
The laws regarding the prosecution of crimes is written in statute, neither Scotland Yard or Theresa May can change that.

Under existing EU laws any crime involving the disappearance of Madeleine McCann will have to be prosecuted in Portugal.

There was some talk last year that Cameron was to promote a treaty in the EU for crimes of rape and domestic violence involving UK nationals abroad to be heard in the UK but i don't think that has got anywhere near being ratified yet.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Wintabells on Sun 16 Jun - 0:11

Lioned wrote:Best to remember Scotland Yard can't prosecute anybody.

All that has changed is that Theresa Mays given them more money to look for the fictitious spotty man.

 
The laws regarding the prosecution of crimes is written in statute, neither Scotland Yard or Theresa May can change that.

Under existing EU laws any crime involving the disappearance of Madeleine McCann will have to be prosecuted in Portugal.

There was some talk last year that Cameron was to promote a treaty in the EU for crimes of rape and domestic violence involving UK nationals abroad to be heard in the UK but i don't think that has got anywhere near being ratified yet.

British police do not have jurisdiction in Portugal but they have the right to investigate and prosecute any British suspects who might be linked to Madeleine’s disappearance.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2342030/Madeline-McCann-Scotland-Yard-takes-inquiry-Maddies-disappearance-Portuguese-police.html

I don't understand why the report says the above if what Lioned is saying is correct.



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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Lioned on Sun 16 Jun - 0:29

Police investigate they do not prosecute.Its lazy journalism.

Once the Police believe they have a case its passed to The Crown Prosecution Service to present the case to the Courts if they think they can obtain a prosecution.

In the McCann case it would have to go back to Portugal.

Any EU lawyers here will know better than me i guess.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Wintabells on Sun 16 Jun - 1:12

Lioned wrote:Police investigate they do not prosecute.Its lazy journalism.

Once the Police believe they have a case its passed to The Crown Prosecution Service to present the case to the Courts if they think they can obtain a prosecution.

In the McCann case it would have to go back to Portugal.

Any EU lawyers here will know better than me i guess.

Ah, of course - now I understand, thankyou!

According to google, it seems that if the CPS decide there is enough evidence to secure a prosecution in the case of murder/manslaughter the following applies:

Murder or manslaughter abroad. Section 9 gives the courts in England, Wales and Ireland extra-territorial jurisdiction over homicides committed by British subjects overseas.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  tanszi on Sun 16 Jun - 1:27

thanks for that Wintabells, I was going to say something along those lines but not as well as you've put it.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  wantthetruth on Sun 16 Jun - 8:17

Excellent post by Blacksmith

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Panda on Sun 16 Jun - 9:28

I commented on the Daily Mail thread that I thought it was encouraging and think if Scotland Yard found these "people of interest " who turned out to be from the Tapas 9 , because Britain is a EU Member the Portugese can issue a EU extradition Warrant. Even if CR try to block this on the grounds that their clients would not have a fair trial etc I don't think they will succeed.

Maybe....at last..... we will witness endgame folks.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Carolina on Sun 16 Jun - 11:16

AFAIK, CR are not extradition lawyers, they are libel lawyers.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Panda on Sun 16 Jun - 11:21

Carolina wrote:A
FAIK, CR are not extradition lawyers, they are libel lawyers.


Carter Ruck were famous for preventing Pinochet from extradition.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  wjk on Sun 16 Jun - 11:31

Micheal Caplan was Pinochets extradition lawyer

http://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/about-us/our-people/michael-caplan-qc

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Panda on Sun 16 Jun - 12:05

T
Safe pair of hands for McCanns

PROFILE
By Clive Coleman
BBC Radio 4's Law in Action





Michael Caplan defended General Pinochet
Named as suspects in Madeleine McCann's disappearance, her parents are being advised by Michael Caplan QC, who successfully fought efforts to extradite General Pinochet from the UK.
As Kate and Gerry McCann headed back to their Leicestershire home for the first time since their daughter Madeleine disappeared, they were visited by a man few recognised. Michael Caplan QC is one of the UK's top criminal solicitors. Joshua Rozenberg, the Daily Telegraph's legal editor, has followed his career.
"When he went to see the McCanns last Sunday, he went in through the front door. But it was very clear to me that none of the photographers outside recognised him. As he was wearing a dark suit, they probably thought he was a police officer. He is not the sort of man who struts the stage and attracts attention to himself."
Neither Mr Caplan nor Kingsley Napley, the firm in which he's a partner, are strangers to controversy. One of the founders of the firm, Sir David Napley, was solicitor to the former Liberal leader Jeremy Thorpe when he was tried for conspiracy to murder.


The McCanns returned to their home on Sunday
One of Mr Caplan's early cases was to represent the captain of the dredger Bowbelle which collided with the Marchioness on the Thames in 1989, killing 51 people. Captain Henderson was tried twice but never convicted of any wrongdoing. But it was in 1998 that Mr Caplan was really catapulted into the limelight. The former Chilean dictator, Augusto Pinochet, was arrested in the UK on a warrant from Spain requesting his extradition to face murder charges.
"His lawyers didn't look for someone on the same side politically as Pinochet - instead they went for the most reliable, straight-forward, unflamboyant lawyer in London. They picked Michael Caplan," says Mr Rozenberg.
Landmark case
The Pinochet case was always going to be colossal. Its ramifications would be felt around the world. At its heart was the issue of whether a former head of state could be extradited to stand trial for crimes committed whilst in power, or whether they were immune.

You might describe him as a quiet crusader - he'd never shouted from the rooftops, but always made the point very clearly when opportunities arose

Mark Clough


Hear Radio 4's Profile
Tyrants and despots around the world would have to carefully reconsider their travel plans if General Pinochet lost. Barrister Julian Knowles, who also acted for the General, believes that was the "most important extradition case there's ever been and possibly ever will be".
"It was an opportunity to make legal history and he would have been aware of those benefits for him and the firm - the financial benefits," says Mr Knowles.
"But this was undoubtedly a case which offered every lawyer involved an opportunity to leave footprints, and that would've been his primary motivation."
But what were the particular skills needed to represent General Pinochet; what strengths did Michael Caplan bring to bear?
"The approach he takes to legal problems is to think about them from every angle much as a chess player does - how will this move impact on future moves?" says Mr Knowles.
Limelight
But running an intensely high-profile case is a vast undertaking. Representing the McCanns may well prove to be as huge a task. Cases like these involve far more than just preparing for court. Another member of the Pinochet team, Clive Nicholls QC, says Mr Caplan was "concerned with dealing with Pinochet himself, and his wife".


Feelings ran high
"He had to manage and control the Chilean part of the senator's team," says Mr Nicholls.
"Equally he had to keep control of those who wanted to be associated - such as Margaret Thatcher - so he kept in contact with her. He's very good at dealing with these people and keeping them at the proper distance."
As the case progressed, anger and emotion ran high. At the centre of it all Mr Caplan had to address the hungry press and face down the taunts of General Pinochet's political opponents. At times, as Mr Knowles remembers, it got pretty hairy.
"The tension was intense, with a banner outside court reading 'Michael Caplan is a torturer'. Not many solicitors had that accusation levelled against them."
But in 2000 the then UK Home Secretary, Jack Straw, released General Pinochet from house arrest in Britain after he was declared unfit to stand extradition proceedings.
Mr Caplan saw General Pinochet on to the plane taking him back to Santiago. Such was the trust he'd inspired that Lady Thatcher left specific instructions that only Mr Caplan be permitted to give her old friend an inscribed plate, once he was safely on board.
First among equals
So why is a solicitor also a QC, a title historically the preserve of barristers? When solicitors were granted the right to appear as advocates in the higher courts in the early 1990s, Mr Caplan was quick to qualify as what's known as a solicitor advocate.

He has a gift to explain to a client why he's doing something in a way they can understand

Mark Clough
In 2002 he was the first solicitor from a criminal law background to be made a QC. And one of the bees in his bonnet was to ensure that, now they were on the same footing, solicitor advocates should wear the same wig and gown in court as their barrister colleagues.
"He played a leading role in consultation with government to make it clear that parity of dress in court is essential for justice. You might describe him as a quiet crusader. He'd never shouted from the rooftops, but always made the point very clearly when opportunities arose," says Mark Clough, a friend and fellow solicitor QC.
Mr Caplan is a man used to winning. But even after a victory in court, this is a lawyer who really isn't one to go out and party. Mr Clough, a long-time lunch partner, says he's "quite abstemious" and "restrained" and is a vegetarian.
"That's his general approach to life - very measured. Not that he doesn't have a sense of humour - he has a twinkle in his eye and a wry smile. He's a very easy, approachable person."
And this extends to how he treats his clients. "He has a gift to explain to a client why he's doing something in a way they can understand."
McCann case
That's no doubt one of the qualities that has appealed to the McCanns. But Mr Caplan also has particular expertise that could prove invaluable to them.
"If it's decided in Portugal they should be tried, they will want advice as to fighting extradition or returning voluntarily," says Julian Knowles. The other area of law Mr Caplan specialises in is "mutual assistance" - the process where one country seeks the assistance of another in a criminal investigation. "The McCanns will want to know if the Portuguese police can turn up at their house and search it. Or can they get the English police to search it."


Pinochet boarded in a wheelchair, and left it with a stick
Madeleine's disappearance has been reported around the globe. But in Chile, it's Mr Caplan, known for representing General Pinochet, who made the headlines when it was reported this week that he's been hired for the case.
"Because Pinochet is a controversial figure, so is Michael Caplan. People in Chile remember the main argument for the defence was his poor state of health. And the first image of Pinochet in Chile was when he got out the plane in a wheelchair then stood up and walked," says the BBC's Andrea Ernandez in Santiago.
"So today some people think Michael Caplan is an excellent lawyer and Madeleine's parents are in good hands. Others who ask why they chose someone who defended Pinochet, a military ruler who was accused of crimes against humanity."
But Mr Caplan has said that a lawyer has a duty to a client, just as a surgeon has to a patient. Clients don't want to be judged by their lawyers. What they want is ability and a safe pair of hands. In Michael Caplan, Kate and Gerry McCann have got just that.
hanks wjk, found this on the same post, long but interesting, maybe he recommended CR

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Sun 16 Jun - 16:38

Carolina wrote:I find BS's post very clear. He means that the McCanns are going to have to watch out, things aren't going their way.



i hope so Carolina, I really do! But that isn't what I read into it! 

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Sun 16 Jun - 16:40

margaret wrote:
Carolina wrote:I find BS's post very clear. He means that the McCanns are going to have to watch out, things aren't going their way.

Worse than that. SY are going to take the lead and they can arrest and prosecute those they find guilty from within the UK.

So no need for those fancy extradition lawyers!

Effing brilliant, excuse my language.




Yes Margaret I will because I agree entirely 

ps don't no were that emoton came from its nothing to do with me....


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How it all began: "Mummy, mummy, it's dark and I'm scared…Mummy…Mummy?"

Post  Annabel on Sun 16 Jun - 16:43


How it all began: "Mummy, mummy, it's dark and I'm scared…Mummy…Mummy?"
On the surface  the latest story appears to be a complete invention since nowhere is the headline "UK police to take over" backed up by any recorded statement, official or otherwise:  the supposed confirmatory quotations are fake, that is they do not relate to the "take over" story but are stock quotations from the past to turn an organized leak into a news item.
Nevertheless we believe that the story is basically true and will be confirmed. It was clearly released to multiple  media outlets simultaneously, together  with an embargo on giving the exact source but a verbal assurance that it represented the true situation. Who by – Yard or Home Office? They're  not saying. If the story is untrue, or a power play,  then one of the two will issue a formal rebuttal. Neither of them have done so yet, which implies the decision is indeed joint and agreed.  Whether  a potential leak prematurely prompted the release of information – as Amaral's comments did in April 2012 – or whether it is the outcome of  the discussions about the review's future that we forecast in January, is immaterial, as is the possibility that it is a "flyer" in Whitehall terms: release the principle unofficially and see if the treasury or MPs object and then put the nuts and bolts together in peace.
The Bureau's apparently lone belief that it is a masterstroke, intentional or accidental, which means that British persons of interest cannot evade questioning by refusing to return to Portugal  is, if anything,  stronger after reflection than it was before. Readers should note that if the change is confirmed and the UK police question UK citizens, then for the first time since May 3 2007, the case becomes subject to UK contempt of court laws: that means potential limits on  what twitter and UK forums and, much more importantly, on spokesmen, or "crooked, lying, contemptible  shits"  as they are sometimes  known, can say.  Note how Max Clifford, the biggest mouth around, has had to behave since his member he was put on police bail: any spin and he is in contempt of court.

One of the 20 suspects identified by UK police
Indeed anything which offers the prospect of staunching  the discharges from Mitchell's orifice, together with a ban on his multi-gendered and psychologically disturbing identity role-playing – "pal", "friend", "source" "family friend" "crooked lying contemptible shit" –  eerily reminiscent of the latest mad Wallender suspect who strips to his undies  and indulges in face-painted masturbatory droolings  ahead of his next crime, should be welcomed for that service alone.
Equally, when the various British paedophiles and toddler snatchers  identified by the Yard – the Ink Blots as we believe they are known—are called in for questioning they will be uneasily aware that  lawyers for a couple of previous arguidos, or "persons of complete innocence" as Gerry McCann's Portuguese phrase book translates the term, went for a "use the public via the media to avoid extradition"  defence. That won't be much of a help here, will it? Oh, and Panorama programs made to expunge a belief in the essential innocence and goodness of stealing toddlers to order will be banned as well. 
Lastly it's good to know that the far-sighted  Leicester police refused to allow access to their Madeleine files in 2008 and 2009, despite prolonged attempts to get at them by persons of complete innocence. Just imagine if they had somehow fallen into the hands of all those Hewitts and other paedophile filth pin-pointed by the Yard! Why, knowing all the evidence and the operational weaknesses in the case against them might well have enabled monsters to escape, mightn't it?  As Kate McCann said in her book, if memory serves us,  "Well done chief constable!"
 
 
at 15:50

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Panda on Sun 16 Jun - 17:11

Hi Annabel, thanks...the picture is horrible LOl, but no indication of who wrote this article???

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  wantthetruth on Sun 16 Jun - 17:23

LOL

arguidos, or "persons of complete innocence" as Gerry McCann's Portuguese phrase book translates the term

He just gets better.......


Last edited by wantthetruth on Sun 16 Jun - 17:24; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : the quote disappeared)

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  frencheuropean on Sun 16 Jun - 18:26

Panda wrote:Hi Annabel, thanks...the picture is horrible LOl, but no indication of who wrote this article???





http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/ Today. Horrible picture indeed.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Panda on Sun 16 Jun - 19:00

frencheuropean wrote:
Panda wrote:Hi Annabel, thanks...the picture is horrible LOl, but no indication of who wrote this article???





http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/    Today. Horrible picture indeed.

Thanks frenchperson....are you getting the feeling that something is going to break? I am, hope it's not another false dawn.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  interested on Sun 16 Jun - 19:13

Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that Martin Brunt accidentally (?) mentioned the "M" word?

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  tanszi on Sun 16 Jun - 19:22

it was just that.

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Re: Blacksmith/Now we're talking

Post  Sponsored content Today at 18:29


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