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'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

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'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  Lioned on Mon 14 Oct - 16:30

Additional statement by Martin Smith, 30 January 2008

I hereby declare that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and that I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I will be liable to prosecution if I state in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10” in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.


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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  wjk on Mon 14 Oct - 16:34

Absolutely!! I'm 100% certain Martin Smith knows who he saw.
And I'm pretty certain the media know too (the talk of the embargo on the other thread).
And I think AR and his team know as well, hence the dismissing of GM's alibi, the Jane Tanner sighting!
Lets see if they have the balls to spell it out tonight?

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  Lioned on Mon 14 Oct - 16:36

UK Justice Forum ‏@Justice_forum 58s
SY now claim #Madeleine #McCann taken between 8.30pm and 9.10pm which throws doubts on father's claim of having seen her at 9.12pm.


ack Jills site.

gerry telling porkies ?

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  Guest on Mon 14 Oct - 16:38

Lioned wrote:UK Justice Forum  ‏@Justice_forum  58s  
SY now claim #Madeleine #McCann taken between 8.30pm and 9.10pm which throws doubts on father's claim of having seen her at 9.12pm.


ack Jills site.

gerry telling porkies ?
Shurely not!  

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  welshy on Mon 14 Oct - 16:39

In tonighs sy crime watch programme I'm pretty sure Gerry is wearing a dark top and beige trousers.

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  pennylane on Mon 14 Oct - 16:42

Lioned wrote:UK Justice Forum  ‏@Justice_forum  58s  
SY now claim #Madeleine #McCann taken between 8.30pm and 9.10pm which throws doubts on father's claim of having seen her at 9.12pm.


ack Jills site.

gerry telling porkies ?
Where did UK Justice Forum got those specifics from?

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  LJC on Mon 14 Oct - 16:57

It would be very interesting to know who the other family member is who helped with the E fit. If Mr Smith's wife is in full agreement with him that it looked like Gerry McCann but other family members are not and this E fit is with the assistance of another family member, well it still looks like Gerry McCann.

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  interested on Mon 14 Oct - 17:32

To answer the question posed by "Lioned" as stated in the topic heading - unreservedly YES!!!

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  comperedna on Mon 14 Oct - 17:53

! - A little activity for those of you who actually weakened and bought Kates bewk, as I did. Open the back cover to the dust jacket where you will find a full face pic of Gerry. Put it up close to the chubbier-faced e-fit of the mystery man and see what YOU think!

2. - Then re-read the chapter called: 'Missing' with all those detailed times they did the checking. Not bought the book? Perhaps I can help....

She writes: on P 70
'Obviously, we didn't want any of our children waking and wondering where we were even for a few minutes, and if the chances of that happening seemed remote, it was enough of a concern to make us absolutely prompt with our checks on the kids. That is why Gerry and I were subsequently able to be so accurate about timings.
After ordering his food, Gerry left to do the first check at 9.05 by his watch.

She goes on 'Madeleine was lying there, on her left hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position as we'd left her', in would-be lyrical style she continues about how Gerry thought how beautiful she was, how he then went to the bathroom, and how outside he met Jes Wilkins, a guy from his tennis group, pushing his own child in a buggy.

She continues: 'At 9.30pm I stood up to go and make our second check. Almost simultanously, Matt got to his feet to see to Grace. As his apartment was right next door he offered' etc...'When Matt returned he reassured us ,"All quiet". At 10 pm I went back to the apartment myself' ...and we all know what she found, or didn't find.

Martin Smith and his family are not named in the book. These key, totally independent witnesses are somewhat skated over though they are correctly said to have seen someone carrying a child less than 50 minutes after Jane Tanner's sighting of Bundleman (a sighting which seems to have been an ever variable and moveable feast). She writes 'They commented that the man did not look comfortable carrying the child, as if he wasn't used to it'.

How much else is in this book is fabrication? She speculates about whether the abductor sedated all three children, a 'tea stain' on Madeleine's clothing is discussed.

Kate says that the tennis session that Redwood says she attended was for the men only, and that she stayed home, had a shower, and that David Payne popped in and saw them all there and went back to tell Gerry they were not after all coming down to the courts. Huh?

Kate's book is a very turgid, self justificatory and rather nasty read. Mrs Fenn is described scathingly as having 'a plummy voice'. A woman who tried to comfort her 'smelled of cigarettes' and was drunk ... Some key people simply do not appear at all. Despite the title, there is hardly anything about Madeleine herself.

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  flower on Mon 14 Oct - 18:02

Why would this statement read 'Gerard' on several occassions instead of Gerald?

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  almostgothic on Mon 14 Oct - 19:31

Shhhh! ‏@Wonderwoody1 3m
According to Channel 4 news those e-fits have been sitting in #McCann private investigators files for 5 years+ & never passed to PT police.

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  jinvta on Mon 14 Oct - 19:55

Was "McClusky Man" also Gerry?

I find the McClusky statements regarding suspicious activity regarding a couple that looked liked Gerry and Kate in the early morning hours of 5 May 2007 quite interesting:

http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8283-mccluskey-statements

Statement made 12th September 2007

I am the above named person and I live at an address know to Police. In early May 2007 myself and my wife were on holiday in Portugal. I have already provided a witness statement in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I would like to add the following;

The events of the past week or so, with the McCanns being very much in the news, have triggered my memory in relation to the incident.

In my original statement I described a distressed female who ran down a road towards a white van I had described.

Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state. I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.

I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child’s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.

I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child’s weight.

(signed).......R McCluskey

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  mossman on Mon 14 Oct - 20:01

Wow, I have never read that about the way he carried the child:wow: 

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  jinvta on Mon 14 Oct - 20:21

mossman wrote:Wow, I have never read that about the way he carried the child:wow: 
 
I hadn't read it either. I was looking for the witness statement of the couple who said that they remember hearing someone looking for a child at 9:20 pm, well before Kate allegedly raised the alarm. I can't remember this couple's names, but then found the McClusky statements. His wife, Susan McClusky, also states:
 
I am the above named person living at an address known to the Police.
 
At approximately 10 to 2 in the morning of Saturday 5th May 2007, I was on holiday in the town of ALVOR, PORTUGAL, with my husbandRichard . We were walking up the bank from the town returning to our hotel complex known as, CLUBE ALVORFERIAS, after a night out. We were the only people on the street. We were on the main road which was dark but lit by street lighting.
 
As we approached the hotel Raymond(sic) - (Richard surely ??) - drew my attention to a vehicle which had stopped on the junction across the road. It was parked in the middle of the junction and initially I had thought it had broken down because of the way it was stopped. I did not have any glasses on but I was able to distinguish a male with a child get up and stagger up the hill. I can say the vehicle was about 20-30f when it stopped (PAGE ONE) but we had a clear and unobstructed view ofthe junction. There was no traffic and the junction was well lit with street lighting. Raymond(sic) then decided to go across and check out the vehicle. We both went over and wrote the vehicle registration of the white 'pick-up' vehicle down on my hand. We had been at the vehicle only a very short time, possibly a couple of minutes when a woman and a couple in a dark vehicle appeared from the road in front of the van almost simultaneously. I could describe the woman as 5 ft 5 inches - 5ft 6 inches blonde ponytail with a very worried / white face. I only noticed she was casually dressed. I could see that the male who got out of the car was on his mobile phone. We got into conversation as he could speak English and I asked him whether he was looking for a man with a child to which he said yes. He said he had seen the man hit the girl who was her(sic) (possibly should be 'him') and had turned around to see if he could catch him which was how he had ended up here. I also asked him if he knew about the missing child to which he said yes. I said can we leave it with you and he said 'yes'. He was still on the (page 2) phone at this time.
 
 
 
Page 130 (Page 2 of 2)
 
We left and returned to the hotel. We went to security to report the matter but the doors were locked. We therefore went to our room and had a coffee watching Sky News. We saw the news that the girl still had not been found and a report of a couple acting suspiciously. We could not settle and returned to security and woke him up and explained the situation, after which we returned to the pick-up and saw it and the woman still there. At this point the security guard said leave it with me and initially we did. However after a while we had not had anybody call so we went back down and spoke to the security man who stated he had spoke to the woman who said she had a family argument over not being able to find a child minder, and he had to leave the van there for the boss to pick it up. We were incensed by this in light of what was on the news andRichard asked for the Police and contacted them himself.
 
(signed) S MCCLUSKEY

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  Chris on Mon 14 Oct - 20:24

It doesn't make sense to suggest an abduction before 9.10 pm and put credence on the Smith sighting. Surely an abductor wouldn't be stupid enough to wander around the streets for possibly an hour when the alarm could be raised at any point.

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  wjk on Mon 14 Oct - 20:27

Good find, jinvta!

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  interested on Mon 14 Oct - 20:35

[quote="almostgothic"]Shhhh! ‏@Wonderwoody1 3m
According to Channel 4 news those e-fits have been sitting in #McCann private investigators files for 5 years+  & never passed to PT police.[/quote





These are the "private" investigators paid by the McCanns through the Fund, the mission being to leave no stone unturned.

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  Lioned on Mon 14 Oct - 23:21

I would imagine in the fairly near future SY will mop up the Smith sighting with some random holiday maker.
Then work can continue on reinforcing the German connection.

All coming along very nicely and Deadwood can look forward to his award in the new years honours list.

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  jinvta on Mon 14 Oct - 23:23

Was Stephen Carpenter the man that Jane Tanner saw?
 
3-Cartas Rogatorias File 3 Pages 31 - 56
 
Surname: CARPENTER
First name. STEPHEN
 
DCF: C***** is your wife and at the time of the events you had known her for nine years and I****** is your daughter aged three and a half and F***** is obviously your other child aged five months. During the holiday you met the following persons, Gerry and Kate McCann, saw their children, Madeleine and the twins, but don’t know their names.
 
DCF: He was going to take a plane the next day to Switzerland, given that the children’s mother lived there, I had never seen him before that night, but he ended up joining us for a coffee, he was a MW tourist. Another couple whose names I do not remember, sat at the table opposite us. A man was sitting on the esplanade having a drink whilst waiting for a take away, I spoke to them briefly, I hadn’t realised that the Tapas bar had a take away service. At that time i didn’t know their names. At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of tennis amongst other things, I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children. We did not talk about the system for checking the children or the fact that they had left them alone in the apartment, it was only later upon hearing the news that I realised that they had left the children alone in the apartment and that they were regularly checking to see if they were all right. Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry’s apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling “Madeleine, Madeleine”, this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine’s disappearance”. OK, before going on the next part, do you remember at what time you left'

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  kitti on Mon 14 Oct - 23:29

t approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately TEN people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of.....



He wasn't Alone thought his wife was with him....

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  fred on Tue 15 Oct - 6:50

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  Lioned on Tue 15 Oct - 17:55

Kate found Maddie missing and started screaming "they've taken her" at around 10.pm.

Smiths saw 'Smithman ' at around 10.pm.

Where was gerry at that time ?

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  jassi on Tue 15 Oct - 17:57

Lioned wrote:Kate found Maddie missing and started screaming "they've taken her" at around 10.pm.

Smiths saw 'Smithman ' at around 10.pm.

Where was gerry at that time ?
Allegedly at the table, but as usual, these things aren't absolutely clear as witnesses can't agree.

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  Lioned on Tue 15 Oct - 18:03

 
jassi wrote:
Lioned wrote:Kate found Maddie missing and started screaming "they've taken her" at around 10.pm.

Smiths saw 'Smithman ' at around 10.pm.

Where was gerry at that time ?
Allegedly at the table, but as usual, these things aren't absolutely clear as witnesses can't agree.
Thanks.It surely cannot be hard to establish if gerry was at the table or not ?

All of the Tapas crewe would have to lie to give him an alibi and all the staff would have to forget/not notice ?


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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

Post  mossman on Tue 15 Oct - 18:08

jassi wrote:
Lioned wrote:Kate found Maddie missing and started screaming "they've taken her" at around 10.pm.

Smiths saw 'Smithman ' at around 10.pm.

Where was gerry at that time ?
Allegedly at the table, but as usual, these things aren't absolutely clear as witnesses can't agree.

Don't forget the cadaver scent in the flower bed. That's important. Move the timings back by around fifteen twenty minutes , Kate screaming at 9.40, all run over, panic. Where did Gerry go THEN. It was six to eight minutes walk to the Smith sighting. Others claim to have heard calls for Madeleine circa 930. All just IMO.

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Re: 'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

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