'Smithman' was it gerry mccann ?

@JerryLawton: Scotland Yard say #McCann probe now focussed on 55 mins between Gerry sighting at 9.05pm and Kate finding Madeleine gone from bed at 10pm

So lets say we move kates scream back 20 mins or so to 9.40.

That means gerry would need to have Maddie secured somewhere out the way at that time and ready to trott of down the road amidst all the commotion for his rendezvous with the Smiths.

There was a 'slight' alert to cadaverine in the flower bed by the patio ?

Lioned wrote:So lets say we move kates scream back 20 mins or so to 9.40.

That means gerry would need to have Maddie secured somewhere out the way at that time and ready to trott of down the road amidst all the commotion for his rendezvous with the Smiths.

There was a 'slight' alert to cadaverine in the flower bed by the patio ?

With all that's gone on yesterday, I'm thinking anything is possible. He was delayed on one of his checks, but was the entire delay caused by talking to Wilkins ? He told us he used the toilet, had his loving father moment etc., all these events could be to justify missing minutes. IMO and just a discussion, not fact obviously.

I am trying to work out how gerry achieved the disposal and concealment of Maddie in this timescale.

He could get from the apartment to the Smiths in say 10 mins.Then where ? To the beach/rocks maybe a pre arranged hiding place,then back to join in the commotion ?

How long would he be away from the main group without them noticing ?

For all this to work i am of the view gerry would have to had a pre arranged hiding place and he would be away from the 'group' for at least 30 maybe 40 mins,in which case each and everyone of the Tapas group,if they were not privy to this,would at the very least now have their suspicions,

Lioned wrote:I am trying to work out how gerry achieved the disposal and concealment of Maddie in this timescale.

He could get from the apartment to the Smiths in say 10 mins.Then where ? To the beach/rocks maybe a pre arranged hiding place,then back to join in the commotion ?

How long would he be away from the main group without them noticing ?

For all this to work i am of the view gerry would have to had a pre arranged hiding place and he would be away from the 'group' for at least 30 maybe 40 mins,in which case each and everyone of the Tapas group,if they were not privy to this,would at the very least now have their suspicions,

It's wrong of me really to try and discuss this now, because I have to refresh my memory and look back at their statements. It is unlikely I know, it's just the flower bed bothers me. I will read their statements and see who was where.

Two waiters said they weren't at the table apart from Webster 9.30-35.



I think Gerry McCann knew beforehand where he was going to take her.

kitti wrote:Two waiters said they weren't at the table apart from Webster 9.30-35.



I think Gerry  McCann knew  beforehand where he was going to take her.

Gonçalo Amaral spoke about a villa in Praia da Luz.

kitti wrote:Two waiters said they weren't at the table apart from Webster 9.30-35.



I think Gerry  McCann knew  beforehand where he was going to take her.

There was forum talk, IIRC, that Gerry had been to PdL before on golfing trips. So maybe he knew the area.

AnnaEsse wrote:

kitti wrote:Two waiters said they weren't at the table apart from Webster 9.30-35.



I think Gerry  McCann knew  beforehand where he was going to take her.

Gonçalo Amaral spoke about a villa in Praia da Luz.

It will be interesting to see any other evidence about if Gerry was at the table or not for long enough, or if it is possible the time Kate checked was before 10pm. Do we know that the smith sighting was 10pm or could this have been 10 minutes earlier or later?

Also, do we know that the SY 10pm sighting is definitely the Smith sighting?

DavidA wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

kitti wrote:Two waiters said they weren't at the table apart from Webster 9.30-35.



I think Gerry  McCann knew  beforehand where he was going to take her.

Gonçalo Amaral spoke about a villa in Praia da Luz.

It will be interesting to see any other evidence about if Gerry was at the table or not for long enough, or if it is possible the time Kate checked was before 10pm. Do we know that the smith sighting was 10pm or could this have been 10 minutes earlier or later?

Also, do we know that the SY 10pm sighting is definitely the Smith sighting?

21.55 it says here http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html. If I remember correctly its fairly definate, they had a receipt from the bar having paid for their drinks before going home.

SY have definitely confirmed the 10 pm sighting as the Smiths.Smith statement says time was 'around' 10 pm,the Smith son was travelling home the next day so they were not intending to be out to late so i would think maybe a slight margin say +/- 10 mins ?
From where they saw 'gerryman' walking down the middle of the road in the opposite direction towards the beach,i think from that point the Church may be another 5 mins walk.

Does anyone know if there is a graveyard with stones that could possibly be lifted ?

I know for certain that the church in Praia that the McCanns went so often to, didn't have a graveyard at that location. I know, cos I've been there  

Roasted Arizona wrote:I know for certain that the church in Praia that the McCanns went so often to, didn't have a graveyard at that location.  I know, cos I've been there  

Thanks.

Just to confirm that the Smith statement says they left Kellys bar around 21.55 and headed up the road towards the restaurant,having crossed the road,up some steps and then into the next road where they passed 'gerryman'.So around 22.00 pm.

She would have to have been dead before the 3rd they would not have been able to go to dinner and move the body if it had only happened a few hours earlier. They needed to plan, remove the body somewhere safe, and plan the abduction thats why Gerry was running round the streets with a child in his arms (possibly drugged) the abductor needed to be seen in my humble opinion

Does Gerry have an alibi for the Smiths' sighting or not... that's what I want to know. Redwood said the sighting was at 10pm, so surely Gerry was rushing back to 5a at that time having been told by Kate that 'They've taken her' witnessed only by the Tapas group I would have thought?

Yes - where exactly WAS Gerry at 10pm? Not eating at the Tapas, was he?

Wintabells wrote:Yes - where exactly WAS Gerry at 10pm? Not eating at the Tapas, was he?

Like kitti says above, two waiters said the table was empty by 9.30pm except for Mrs Webster.

wjk wrote:

Wintabells wrote:Yes - where exactly WAS Gerry at 10pm? Not eating at the Tapas, was he?

Like kitti says above, two waiters said the table was empty by 9.30pm except for Mrs Webster.

Like i have said regarding Matt Oldfields statement and the SY timeline putting that 'check' at 9.30.

Even setting aside discrepancies over timelines what is absolutely clear from Matt Oldfields statement is that gerry got up immediately on Oldfields return to the table to go and do another 'check'.According to SY that means gerry was away from the table at 9.30pm.