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A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  kitti on Sun 24 Nov - 8:09

fuzeta wrote:Panda I wish that would happen but I doubt it. The press just might drop a few hints that will be hidden under the headlines like Anna suggested but fully turn on them I don't think they dare and not because of the fear of being sued.


They won't have no money to sue.....once the money dries up the newspapers will change route...

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  Panda on Sun 24 Nov - 9:06

kitti wrote:
fuzeta wrote:Panda I wish that would happen but I doubt it. The press just might drop a few hints that will be hidden under the áheadlines like Anna suggested but fully turn on them I don't think they dare and not because of the fear of being sued.

They won't have no money to sue.....once the money dries up the newspapers will change route...
I think this case has cost the Portugese and British Police forces dearly and PDL will forever be remembered for all the wrong reasons. It SHOULD have been settled years ago, the Portugese sentence for neglect is one year prison term, for neglect causing harm the sentence is 10 years .....why did they not charge the McCanns?????

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  mossman on Sun 24 Nov - 9:48

I think, and perhaps somebody else will confirm otherwise, had Portugal charged them with the lesser charge of child abandonment, they they could not later charge them with the more serious crime of concealing a body or other.

This is one of the reasons I question their very quick admission to leaving the children. We know they were well advised legally. Were they aware of this and therefore admitted to a lesser crime, hoping they would be charged with it, in steps the UK Authorities and an agreement reached to send them back to the UK ? This interference could have been carried out in quite a public manner, indeed it us usual when foreigners find themselves in trouble abroad.

I'm still not certain the children were left alone, and think that lesser charge might have something to do with their insistence they were.


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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  Panda on Sun 24 Nov - 10:10

mossman wrote:I think, and perhaps somebody else will confirm otherwise, had Portugal charged them with the lesser charge of child abandonment, they they could not later charge them with the more serious crime of concealing a body or other. á

This is one of the reasons I question their very quick admission to leaving the children. áWe know they were well advised legally. áWere they aware of this and therefore admitted to a lesser crime, hoping they would be charged with it, in steps the UK Authorities and an agreement reached to send them back to the UK ? áThis interference could have been carried out in quite a public manner, indeed it us usual when foreigners find themselves in trouble abroad.

I'm still not certain the children were left alone, and think that lesser charge might have something to do with their insistence they were.

Why do you think the children were not left alone mossman?? they certainly would not have been part of a creche in one of the other Apartments, I don't go with that theory at all. As for waiting to charge them with neglect causing harm , I think the Portugese would just be glad to go for the lesser charge, sentence being served in the U.K. just to get back to some normality because they had months and months of reporters and newspaper reports to contend with , besides their own economy and the cost of this investigation which was not even involving their own Citizens.

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  cass on Sun 24 Nov - 10:37

panda idont think portugal will ever get back to normal in the sence - look at the damage uk press have tried to do if we are to believe their headlines - pedos - thiefs and all sorts running around - sickening isnt it ? now that portugal have reopened the case i think they will want to end this once and for all but will they want the truth or the uk version thats the big question

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  fuzeta on Sun 24 Nov - 10:53

cass wrote:panda idont think portugal will ever get back to normal in the sence - look at the damage uk press have tried to do if we are to believe their headlines - pedos - thiefs and all sorts running around - sickening isnt it ? now that portugal have reopened the case i think they will want to end this once and for all but will they want the truth or the uk version thats the big question
This is the question that worries me cass!

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  mossman on Sun 24 Nov - 11:07

Hi Panda.

We are looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. With hindsight the PJ are sorry they ever set eyes on them. However at the time, they suspected something much more was amiss. Perhaps had they believed the abduction theory, they would have charged them with abandonment. Perhaps that was the grand plan. It's easy to say now, but back then they were trying to find a missing child, but the evidence did not stack up for abduction, so they tried to do the right thing. It's no co-incidence, I don't think, that Mr Amaral was moved as the time approached for Smith to return to Portugal. They were not going to charge them with a much smaller crime, just to be rid of them. A crime against a small child had occurred, they of course would want to solve it, not just make something up to get rid of the McCanns. Maybe that is exactly what the McCanns hoped for. They did nt bank on the sardine munchers being professional.

About the kids being left alone, most won't agree with me but I'm just not convinced.

Firstly, because they have told us they did it, I immediately question it. There can be no abduction if they did not abandon them.

There was an adult missing from dinner every night but the Thursday. I believe that adult could have remained back at the apartment block to do the listening system. Despite what the McCanns like to tell us, most parents don't leave their babies alone to go boozing, and often those babies were ill.

Payne was on a different floor, but had a listening device. The other apartments were relatively close on the same floor. It makes sense to take it in turns to stay behind and check. I don't think they were grouped together in one place.

They have never apologised for their actions or agreed it was their fault. Never. This is because they are both too arrogant to apologise for something they did not do.

Just my opinion.

Perhaps they were aware, or were made aware, of the legal system in Portugal and hoped they would be charged with the smaller crime, and get away with everything else, so they held their hands up. They had to.

It would not be the same in the UK, they could later be charged with the more serious crime as well as abandonment.

All I'm saying really is that if it transpired they had not completely left the children alone I would not be shocked.






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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  cass on Sun 24 Nov - 11:13

i dont for one min think that all the children was left alone every night - since madeleine went missing i have become a nanna and i would sit in the appartment and look after my grandchild end off i dont believe dw left her grandaughter every night at all

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  Panda on Sun 24 Nov - 11:16

cass wrote:panda idont think portugal will ever get back to normal in the sence - look at the damage uk press have tried to do if we are to believe their headlines - pedos - thiefs and all sorts running around - sickening isnt it ? now that portugal have reopened the case i think they will want to end this once and for all but will they want the truth or the uk version thats the big question
Morning cass.......I like your new avatar:grin:á

I think there was no doubt the Portugese had a case against them and had they insisted on a recon the theory of abduction would have been thrown out. The McCanns employed their own Detectives flouting the Portugese , tried to make out they had not properly investigated, the Portugese Police were much too soft and allowed it to get out of hand.The Ocean Club has seen a drop in business. Mrs McCann can't sell her Apartment, the residents of PDL are fed up to the eye teeth and want to get back to normal and to top it all the Court case is going to take longer than expected.!!!

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  cass on Sun 24 Nov - 11:20

ha thanks panda - thought avi change needed x
from the start the pj were up against everything - i still think they are tbh without uk backing to find the truth we will still be here in 6 years time - unless swathy dead mans dna turns up somewhere - end game

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  Panda on Sun 24 Nov - 11:30

Morning mossman, when you read the Tapas statements they do say they only checked on their own children, Matt amended his statement to say he didn't go into the apartment , he listened at the door.
Did either parent check on their children from 9pm til 10pm????? NO, that is disgraceful, as was the night they went to you know the place I mean and they came home very late. another night a Bar Waiter was supposed to finish at 11.30pm but they were all still in the bar and wanted another drink so he served them and they left about 12 midnight. The evidence is overwhelming for child neglect and the Portugese let them go???

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  kitti on Sun 24 Nov - 11:33

I DO think Madeleine was left alone in the apt and the twins were being looked after, elsewhere.


If you listen to some off their interviews they slip up and say...'I went to check on Madeleine'. ...they sometimes say 'Madeleine and the twins' or....'the children'.

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  cass on Sun 24 Nov - 11:37

panda in the early days on a forum there was a poster posted this

pj want gold -
silver neglect

and in time they wasnt even going to get bronze - now how true is that now

yes they say that in portugal you cannot add charges - imo this is where the mcanns had a upper hand and very early was advised on this - un the uk this would never happen - also too much freedom was given for them to get their storys together what was said in interviews etc - and as for the markers - well had it been anywhere other than portugal we wouldnt still b e here

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  cass on Sun 24 Nov - 11:39

kitti wrote:I DO think Madeleine was left alone in the apt and the twins were being looked after, elsewhere.


If you listen to some off their interviews they slip áup and say...'I went to check on Madeleine'. ...they sometimes say 'Madeleine and the twins' or....'the children'.
i agree kitti i think madeleine was the only child that they had problems with getting to sleep - and the children was all together in one appartment they have taken her - how did they all know it was madeleine that was taken and not amile


Last edited by cass on Sun 24 Nov - 11:41; edited 2 times in total

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  Panda on Sun 24 Nov - 11:40

cass wrote:i dont for one min think that all the children was left alone every night - since madeleine went missing i have become a nanna and i would sit in the appartment and look after my grandchild end off i dont believe dw left her grandaughter every night at all
That was my last remaining wish, to be a Grannie, but both my Sons are well grown up and not married or have intentions of becoming a Father. In this day and age I honestly don't blame them. As for me sticking around to discuss this case for another 6 yrs....forget it. I'm just waiting to see what the Oporto Police come up with , it's got to be better than SY's efforts.á


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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  kitti on Sun 24 Nov - 11:52

PJ are looking for a body.


SY are looking for a LIVE child.




You can't get any further away from each other than this.



How they going to get round the DEAD or ALIVE and meet in the middle?

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  mossman on Sun 24 Nov - 12:01

Panda wrote: Morning mossman, when you read the Tapas statements they do say they only checked on their own children, Matt amended his statement to say he didn't go into the apartment , he listened at the door.
Did either parent check on their children from 9pm til á10pm????? NO, that is disgraceful, as was the night they went to you know the place I mean and they came home very late. another night a Bar Waiter was supposed to finish at 11.30pm but they were all still in the bar and wanted another drink so he served them and they left about 12 midnight. The evidence is overwhelming for child neglect and the Portugese let them go???
The only evidence they were left alone is the Tapas say so. There is independent evidence in the form of the dogs to suggest something else happened.

Yes, I believe they spent a night, and possibly two, in a sports bar watching the football, but I think there was an adult behind in one of the apartments.

I believe the crying and I believe Mrs Fenn.

However, the adults of the group were not familiar people to the children. They did not see them regularly, did not live close by, were not related. If I put myself in the checkers shoes and I hear Madeleine crying. I go into the apartment, try to calm her down, she gets worse, it's dark, late, I'm not well known to her. The others are not at the Tapas I can't call them. I can stay with her, but then my own kids are alone. What to do ? Leave her hope the others will return soon, hope she settles and falls back to sleep.

Don't get me wrong, even with a checking system, I still consider it neglectful.

I'm just not buying their story and I don't think it's a case that the PJ let them go. Had they been prosecuted for neglect, then they were free from any other charges.

They may never be charged but at least there was a tiny gap left in the hedge to get us where we are today. The alternative is they became two people convicted with child abandonment, back home, running a fund to make money to look for a missing child, happy in the knowledge Portugal could not touch them.

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  Panda on Sun 24 Nov - 12:56

kitti wrote:PJ are looking for a body.


SY are looking for a LIVE child.




You can't get any further away from each other than this.



How they going to get round the DEAD or ALIVE and meet in the middle?
Morning kitti, SY have got to say that to justify spending so much taxpayers money. I'm just hoping Oporto will come up with something spectacular,remember , the PJ refused SY but opened the case on the evidence provided by OPORTO

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  Panda on Sun 24 Nov - 13:03

mossman wrote:
Panda wrote: Morning mossman, when you read the Tapas statements they do say they only checked on their own children, Matt amended his statement to say he didn't go into the apartment , he listened at the door.
Did either parent check on their children from 9pm til á10pm????? NO, that is disgraceful, as was the night they went to you know the place I mean and they came home very late. another night a Bar Waiter was supposed to finish at 11.30pm but they were all still in the bar and wanted another drink so he served them and they left about 12 midnight. The evidence is overwhelming for child neglect and the Portugese let them go???
The only evidence they were left alone is the Tapas say so. áThere is independent evidence in the form of the dogs to suggest something else happened.

Yes, I believe they spent a night, and possibly two, in a sports bar watching the football, but I think there was an adult behind in one of the apartments.

I believe the crying and I believe Mrs Fenn. á

However, the adults of the group were not familiar people to the children. áThey did not see them regularly, did not live close by, were not related. áIf I put myself in the checkers shoes and I hear Madeleine crying. áI go into the apartment, try to calm her down, she gets worse, it's dark, late, I'm not well known to her. áThe others are not at the Tapas I can't call them. áI can stay with her, but then my own kids are alone. áWhat to do ? áLeave her hope the others will return soon, hope she settles and falls back to sleep. á

Don't get me wrong, even with a checking system, I still consider it neglectful.

I'm just not buying their story and I don't think it's a case that the PJ let them go. áHad they been prosecuted for neglect, then they were free from any other charges.

They may never be charged but at least there was a tiny gap left in the hedge to get us where we are today. The alternative is they became two people convicted with child abandonment, back home, running a fund to make money to look for a missing child, happy in the knowledge Portugal could not touch them.
Mossman, they didn't even search for Madeleine on the night, half of PDL was out until the early hours of the morning , but the McCanns "were busy. " I think it very likely that Madeleine was dead in 5a and her body hidden until the coast was clear for Gerry to dispose of her body, callous as it sounds.

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  Panda on Sun 24 Nov - 13:10

cass wrote:ha thanks panda - thought avi change needed x
from the start the pj were up against everything - i still think they are tbh without uk backing to find the truth we will still be here in 6 years time - unless swathy dead mans dna turns up somewhere - end game
cass, I understand that a case can be shelved for over 20 years but now that it is re-opened can it be shelved again if no action is taken?

If Amaral wins, expect the Mccanns to close the fund and sail off into the sunset, if they win, expect another few years of crap from them and the Press.!!!

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  jassi on Sun 24 Nov - 13:28

Panda wrote:
cass wrote:ha thanks panda - thought avi change needed x
from the start the pj were up against everything - i still think they are tbh without uk backing to find the truth we will still be here in 6 years time - unless swathy dead mans dna turns up somewhere - end game
cass, I understand that a case can be shelved for over 20 years but now that it is re-opened can it be shelved again if no action is taken?

If Amaral wins, expect the Mccanns to close the fund and sail off into the sunset, if they win, expect another few years of crap from them and the Press.!!!
In that case, we must hope that Amaral wins

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  kitti on Sun 24 Nov - 13:33

He WILLL


If he doesn't then the cover up has gone further up than we think.


Let's face it, it's obvious as the nose on your face Madeleine is dead and it's just as obvious that mr amaral SHOULD win.



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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  Panda on Sun 24 Nov - 13:43

jassi wrote:
Panda wrote:
cass wrote:ha thanks panda - thought avi change needed x
from the start the pj were up against everything - i still think they are tbh without uk backing to find the truth we will still be here in 6 years time - unless swathy dead mans dna turns up somewhere - end game
cass, I understand that a case can be shelved for over 20 years but now that it is re-opened can it be shelved again if no action is taken?

If Amaral wins, expect the Mccanns to close the fund and sail off into the sunset, if they win, expect another few years of crap from them and the Press.!!!
In that case, we must hope that Amaral wins
Hi jassi, If they win, I definitely will not get involved in any posting about the McCanns ....I mean it.á

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  mossman on Sun 24 Nov - 13:51

Panda wrote:
mossman wrote:
Panda wrote: Morning mossman, when you read the Tapas statements they do say they only checked on their own children, Matt amended his statement to say he didn't go into the apartment , he listened at the door.
Did either parent check on their children from 9pm til á10pm????? NO, that is disgraceful, as was the night they went to you know the place I mean and they came home very late. another night a Bar Waiter was supposed to finish at 11.30pm but they were all still in the bar and wanted another drink so he served them and they left about 12 midnight. The evidence is overwhelming for child neglect and the Portugese let them go???
The only evidence they were left alone is the Tapas say so. áThere is independent evidence in the form of the dogs to suggest something else happened.

Yes, I believe they spent a night, and possibly two, in a sports bar watching the football, but I think there was an adult behind in one of the apartments.

I believe the crying and I believe Mrs Fenn. á

However, the adults of the group were not familiar people to the children. áThey did not see them regularly, did not live close by, were not related. áIf I put myself in the checkers shoes and I hear Madeleine crying. áI go into the apartment, try to calm her down, she gets worse, it's dark, late, I'm not well known to her. áThe others are not at the Tapas I can't call them. áI can stay with her, but then my own kids are alone. áWhat to do ? áLeave her hope the others will return soon, hope she settles and falls back to sleep. á

Don't get me wrong, even with a checking system, I still consider it neglectful.

I'm just not buying their story and I don't think it's a case that the PJ let them go. áHad they been prosecuted for neglect, then they were free from any other charges.

They may never be charged but at least there was a tiny gap left in the hedge to get us where we are today. The alternative is they became two people convicted with child abandonment, back home, running a fund to make money to look for a missing child, happy in the knowledge Portugal could not touch them.
Mossman, they didn't even search for Madeleine on the night, half of PDL was out until the early hours of the morning , but the McCanns "were busy. " áI think it very likely that Madeleine was dead in 5a and her body hidden until the coast was clear for Gerry to dispose of her body, callous as it sounds.

I agree with you Panda and its likely so too did the police, hence no point in the abandonment charges.

If they are ever held accountable, then it will have been a wise decision.

We can only hope.

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Re: A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Post  Panda on Sun 24 Nov - 13:54

kitti wrote:He WILLL


If áhe doesn't then the cover up has gone further up than we think.


Let's face it, it's obvious as the nose on your face Madeleine is dead and it's just as obvious that mr amaral SHOULD win.


I'm getting bad vibes Kitti , the Trial seems so disorganised, the McCanns getting involved, 3 witnesses for
Amaral not showing up , Duarte demanding and getting the income from sales etc. When Tony Bennet was charged with Libel and sued for not abiding by an undertaking not to pursue, did the McCanns ask for info on how many booklets he had sold? NO, Did the McCanns interfere in any way regarding a fine etc NO , a
British Judge would not have tolerated it, in fact Tony did well, he could have been fined a lot more and the McCanns must have lost a lot of Fund money engaging a Barrister.

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