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MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  widowan on Thu 24 Oct - 17:05

Let's hope that while SY is keeping them in the loop they are not working with McCanns on strategy for themselves to prepare innocent explanations of anything. Perhaps SY would like to hear if they have any, however, for whatever it is they find in the unreleased documents...

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  Panda on Thu 24 Oct - 17:08

jeanmonroe wrote:
tanszi wrote:http://.content.met.police.uk/News/Portuguese-authorities-reopen-investigation-into-Madeleine=McCann/  confirm that AC Mark Rowley, and DCI Redwood and the PJ had a meeting at Lisbon.  At the end of that meeting K and G McC were briefed on plans to reopen the investigation.  

Why was it necessary for the McCs to be in Lisbon to learn this?  just what is going on?
Probably they and SY trying to get at  'what's not in the released files' information so they can prepare an 'innocent explanation' for 'descrepancies '
It does seem as if both Countries think the McCanns innocent of any part in Madeleine's disappearance and since the neglect, and neglect causing harm charge has expired they have to produce evidence of an abductor , it will be interesting to know who they come up with.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  widowan on Thu 24 Oct - 17:17

Panda wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:
tanszi wrote:http://.content.met.police.uk/News/Portuguese-authorities-reopen-investigation-into-Madeleine=McCann/  confirm that AC Mark Rowley, and DCI Redwood and the PJ had a meeting at Lisbon.  At the end of that meeting K and G McC were briefed on plans to reopen the investigation.  

Why was it necessary for the McCs to be in Lisbon to learn this?  just what is going on?
Probably they and SY trying to get at  'what's not in the released files' information so they can prepare an 'innocent explanation' for 'descrepancies '
It does seem as if both Countries think the McCanns innocent of any part in Madeleine's disappearance and since the neglect, and neglect causing harm charge has  expired they have to produce evidence of an abductor , it will be interesting to know who they come up with.
Neglect has expired which frees them up to tell the truth about locked doors and checking, but since they already have a book out they pretty much have to stick to that story, the PJ files came back to bite them hard and this time around they know that this will be made public at some point so I think they'll focus as McCanns have always wanted outside the doings of their group and onto sightings only this time, in PDL rather than everywhere else on earth.

I wonder if it will have anything to do with Smith sighting and those efits or if this is entirely new evidence not shared before by PJ with SY.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  welshy on Thu 24 Oct - 17:20

 this all does not make sense to me. Why would Portugal spend millions again to come to the same theory as sy. If this is the case then I would just let sy get on with it and pay for the bloody lot. The PJ must have something other than the abduction theory to go on.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  mossman on Thu 24 Oct - 17:38

tanszi wrote:http://.content.met.police.uk/News/Portuguese-authorities-reopen-investigation-into-Madeleine=McCann/  confirm that AC Mark Rowley, and DCI Redwood and the PJ had a meeting at Lisbon.  At the end of that meeting K and G McC were briefed on plans to reopen the investigation.  

Why was it necessary for the McCs to be in Lisbon to learn this?  just what is going on?



The use of the word "briefed" in this sentence is spin, in my opinion. It coveys to the readers Gerry and Kate were met with a nice cup of tea or New Zeland wine and told all about what is going on. In fact, they could well have met with Gerry and Kate who at that time could have been advised as to what was going to happen and what their rights are in any given particular situation. Two very different types of meetings. Is that around the time Isabelle disappeared from the Libel trial or the around the time Gerry just arrived in to give evidence ?

My impression of the Portugese Police and their system from day one is they do not shout from the hill tops about what they are doing or going to do. I see no reason for them to have changed their approach.

Perhaps the death of bundleman has now allowed the PJ to view the file in a different light, taking account of information with-held and indeed information that Amaral and other officers were aware of but had not had the opportunity to go forward with.

The disappearance of bundleman from the story is really quite a big thing, considering the continued insistence from team McCann that he was key to the mystery was causing the original investigation to go round in circles and stagnate.

So far so good, but a long way to go, anything could still happen.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  tanszi on Thu 24 Oct - 17:40

can someone print out http://l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun.com  Hope and Tanner.  and see what else Sir Bernard Hogan Howe has to say about the investigation and impact on election.  sorry don't know how to cut and paste across.

thank you Mossman for your point of view.  true the Portuguese don't like to shout things around, I wish it would be respected.


Last edited by tanszi on Thu 24 Oct - 17:54; edited 1 time in total

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Madeleine McCann disappearance timeline/ITV

Post  Annabel on Thu 24 Oct - 17:49

http://www.itv.com/news/central/2013-10-24/madeleine-mccann-disappearance-timeline/

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  widowan on Thu 24 Oct - 18:21

mossman wrote:
tanszi wrote:http://.content.met.police.uk/News/Portuguese-authorities-reopen-investigation-into-Madeleine=McCann/  confirm that AC Mark Rowley, and DCI Redwood and the PJ had a meeting at Lisbon.  At the end of that meeting K and G McC were briefed on plans to reopen the investigation.  

Why was it necessary for the McCs to be in Lisbon to learn this?  just what is going on?


The use of the word "briefed" in this sentence is spin, in my opinion.  It coveys to the readers Gerry and Kate were met with a nice cup of tea or New Zeland wine and told all about what is going on.  In fact, they could well have met with Gerry and Kate who at that time could have been advised as to what was going to happen and what their rights are in any given particular situation.  Two very different types of meetings.  Is that around the time Isabelle disappeared from the Libel trial  or the around the time Gerry just arrived in to give evidence ?

My impression of the Portugese Police and their system from day one is they do not shout from the hill tops about what they are doing or going to do.  I see no reason for them to have changed their approach.

Perhaps the death of bundleman has now allowed the PJ to view the file in a different light, taking account of information with-held and indeed information that Amaral and other officers were aware of but had not had the opportunity to go forward with.

The disappearance of bundleman from the story is really quite a big thing, considering the continued insistence from team McCann that he was key to the mystery was causing the original investigation to go round in circles and stagnate.

So far so good, but a long way to go, anything could still happen.
Agree, briefing could be very broad and could also contain information on exactly how this is going to go down, which is, ideally, in secrecy and that including TM not, if they wish to be seen as cooperative, having their media handler post a lot of nonsense around since the effect of their doing so during the investigation slowed things down and created an atmosphere of mistrust and interference is not welcome.

Bundleman's death, or rather resurrection as a parent taking his own child home, does indeed constitute a rather big thing, not so much just because of their insistence they had the guy - they knew who had done it - and along with that the easily inferred info that the PJ weren't "doing anything" to find him; hence incompetent - and because the subsequent evidence they and the T 9 provided (including description of pajamas Madeleine was wearing but the child who Jane saw was NOT wearing) to make the timelines fit this sighting caused a problem.

The other thing the death of Bundleman brings up to me is the efficacy of the highly publicized sighting in terms of getting anything useful. They showed this thing nearly as much as they showed photos of Madeleine, at one point, and yet it took 6 years to rule this person out as a POI - he was THERE the very NIGHT a child was removed, carrying his own child in that same area and wearing a similar outfit but never thought to ring up and say "that was me" until SY reopened the case? How much good did the "sighting" - or any other "sighting" their detectives uncovered - do? All this Fund money spent showing around these pictures sold lots of papers but did nothing to forward the investigation.

jane said she got the impression he wasn't a tourist because of his clothes (tourists don't wear khaki pants and a dark jacket? They aren't brunette? They are all blond and wear cropped trousers on holiday?) so therefore it would seem he was local - ie swarthy Portuguese - and now we're looking at an efit that in no way looks like the stereotypical Portuguese person but rather a lot like Gerry McCann.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  MaryB on Thu 24 Oct - 18:32

I wonder what all the waiters and other customers in the tapas bar have said re the time Madeleine was first said to have disappeared. Was it 10 pm or was it quite a bit before that. Nobody seems to know for sure.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  keepingmum on Thu 24 Oct - 18:35

MaryB wrote:I wonder what all the waiters and other customers in the tapas bar have said re the time Madeleine was first said to have disappeared.  Was it 10 pm or was it quite a bit before that.  Nobody seems to know for sure.
And what day was it? I believe they had at least two days to get their story straight. The PJ and SY can't keep plugging the "abduction" theory, not without evidence to back it up surely. For the first time in years I feel someone is going to blow the whistle.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  Annabel on Thu 24 Oct - 18:54

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/24/investigation-into-madeleine-mccann-disappearance-reopened-in-portugal.html

With all the talk lately of stolen babies and blonde children popping up in gypsy camps, it should be no great surprise that the Madeleine McCann cold case has sprung back to life.
Madeline McCann

Madeline McCann went missing from a Portuguese holiday complex on Thursday, May 3, 2007. (Reuters)

Earlier this month, McCann’s parents Kate and Gerry launched a new appeal to find their daughter, who disappeared from their holiday villa in the Algarve, Portugal in 2007 just shy of her fourth birthday. With the help of BBC’s popular Crimewatch program, they presented some of the latest evidence in the case, including e-fit drawings of the primary suspect, who they say may be directly involved in the girl’s abduction. The McCann tip hotline received more than 2,400 calls after the program. Now, prosecutors in Portugal have ordered police to repoen the investigation into the six-year-old kidnapping thanks to potential new leads.

The family’s hopes had been reignited earlier this year when Scotland Yard opened its own formal investigation into the mysterious disappearance, backing their long-time theory that their child was stolen by a hooded man. Several people at the resort had seen a man carrying a small bundled child on the night Madeleine disappeared. The McCanns are “very pleased” with the Portuguese decision, according to their spokesperson. The new investigation “will give the answers we so desperately need.”

But what a new Portuguese investigation really means is still rather murky. The Portuguese only ever had two suspects in the disappearance: Kate and Gerry McCann. They closed the case in 2008 after reluctantly clearing the McCann’s of any wrongdoing. Giancalo Amaral, the Portuguese detective who led the investigation, went on to write a book, called The Truth in the Lie, accusing the McCanns of involvement in the disappearance. The McCann family is battling Amaral for damages in an ongoing libel case in Portugal.

The McCann’s spokesman says the Portuguese police likely had a change of heart after the Crimewatch show and the discovery of mysterious Maria, the blonde child found in a Roma camp in Greece last week. But Pedro do Carmo, a deputy with the police who will be in charge of the new investigation, told The Daily Beast that he was not ready to comment on the direction of the new investigation, though he confirmed that the Portuguese had also been conducting an independent review of the case over the last two years.

Earlier this year, Scotland Yard came up with 41 new “persons of interest” and nearly 200 leads the Portuguese apparently missed during their initial review, called Operation Grange, which began in 2011.

Scotland Yard came up with 41 new “persons of interest” and nearly 200 leads the Portuguese apparently missed during their initial review.

It is believed that the British police desperately need the help of the Portuguese police to make any arrests n Portugal and to further their investigation into primary suspects who were working or living in the Algarve at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance. But to cooperate fully with the British team, the Portuguese will have to admit certain mistakes and potentially admit they let the real kidnappers go while they focused on the McCanns as their prime suspects. There are hints that a behind-the-scenes strategy to soften the blame put on the Portuguese is already underway. The British police have been openly forgiving in recent days, even defending the Portuguese for earlier mistakes in sharp contrast to years of harsh criticism. Bernard Hogan-Howe, the Met Police Commissioner, told a British radio station yesterday that he understood how difficult things can be in the early days of a complex investigation. “You don’t know exactly if the child has just wandered off. It can be very difficult to know if you’ve got a very serious crime. Anybody can go back after two, three, five, six years and say ‘why didn’t you do that’? That’s easy in hindsight. We don’t like it when it happens to the Met, and I’m certainly not going to do it to the Portuguese.”

By reopening the investigation in Portugal, the police there will also have greater power to investigate their own Roma nomadic camps under the auspices of the search for Madeleine McCann. And perhaps more importantly, if anyone is going to eventually find the child in Portugal, the Portuguese police want to be seen to be leading the way.

Like The Daily Beast on Facebook and follow us on Twitter for updates all day long.


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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  tanszi on Thu 24 Oct - 19:07

I think the fact that the two of the Roma children being proved to be of their parents, and the Bulgarian parents being found puts paid to any reason for the PJ to go looking into Roma camps for Maddie.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  jinvta on Thu 24 Oct - 19:10

tanszi wrote:I think the fact that the two of the Roma children being proved to be of their parents, and the Bulgarian parents being found puts paid to any reason for the PJ to go looking into Roma camps for Maddie.
Yes, and no gypsy would take the risk of snatching a child from its apartment just to bring home and collect extra welfare benefits and begging money! Any person who would take such a risk would be doing so for different purposes - paedophilia or child trafficking.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  pennylane on Thu 24 Oct - 19:18

I've just read Carrie Marie Bratley (sp?) of Portugal News in Lagoa is claiming the team were chosen for their emotional and physical distance from the case. " The team is separate from the six Portuguese officers based in Faro."

I think there's a split, and this is a new team!   We are being spun a confusing story as if Scotland Yard and the Faro team are working side by side, but neither of these are the ones working on the re-opened case from what I have read, and that's probably why Andy Redwood and the McCann's comments have been so muted.  I don't think any of them are in the loop.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  widowan on Thu 24 Oct - 19:19

jinvta wrote:
tanszi wrote:I think the fact that the two of the Roma children being proved to be of their parents, and the Bulgarian parents being found puts paid to any reason for the PJ to go looking into Roma camps for Maddie.
Yes, and no gypsy would take the risk of snatching a child from its apartment just to bring home and collect extra welfare benefits and begging money! Any person who would take such a risk would be doing so for different purposes - paedophilia or child trafficking.
If they wanted money they could have £2,600,000 for the safe return - that's a lot of begging.

It is believed that the British police desperately need the help of the Portuguese police to make any arrests n Portugal and to further their investigation into primary suspects who were working or living in the Algarve at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance. But to cooperate fully with the British team, the Portuguese will have to admit certain mistakes and potentially admit they let the real kidnappers go while they focused on the McCanns as their prime suspects. There are hints that a behind-the-scenes strategy to soften the blame put on the Portuguese is already underway. The British police have been openly forgiving in recent days, even defending the Portuguese for earlier mistakes

I like that. Forgiveness for the mistake of "letting the kidnapper go?" FGS. They never had a kidnapper, who did they let go? Bundleman? He was another parent with his own child.

The insistence on having spokesman Clarence waving that efit around on the court house steps did nothing if not derange the investigation along with parents and t9 refusal to cooperate.

Who spends their fund on their own legal team rather than the search? 18% of the Fund on "the search" ie cr@p investigators and the remainder on their own pursuits.

Can you blame the PJ for not understanding why people would change stories and run away, refuse to answer, refuse to cooperate, if not out of some kind of involvement in something?


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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  widowan on Thu 24 Oct - 19:30

pennylane wrote:I've just read Carrie Marie Bratley (sp?) of Portugal News in Lagoa is claiming the team were chosen for their emotional and physical distance from the case. " The team is separate from the six Portuguese officers based in Faro."

I think there's a split, and this is a new team!   We are being spun a confusing story as if Scotland Yard and the Faro team are working side by side, but neither of these are the ones working on the re-opened case from what I have read, and that's probably why Andy Redwood and the McCann's comments have been so muted.  I don't think any of them are in the loop.
It's well to be emotionally uninvolved, because if PJ did make a mistake in focusing on the parents - based on their own weird behavior, admittedly - you don't want the same group investigating now.

I think they are working side by side and sharing information but I will be happily surprised if it turns up anything - what have we gotten since the initial investigation?

The death of the highly prized Bundleman abductor, which TM heavily promoted because they firmly believed he was the abductor- and the resurgence of the Smith sighting; also a PJ lead, plus blond men hanging around the resort or actually "lurking".

If I stand somewhere chatting I suppose I am lurking too but then you could say Gerry and Jez lurked around 5A steps at the time of the kidnapping; Oldfield lurked around the apt or windows at the time of the kidnapping. All these lurkers and the ones who were meant to have been doing the lurking refused to reconstruct that activity in case it might not be "helpful?"

What happened to the Smiths I wonder? They called in to say the dad recognized or thought he recognized Gerry, was paid a visit by Kennedy's goons or whomever, the likelihood of the match with Gerry subsequently reduced to "70% certainty" - well, this is positioned as the new sighting evidently uncovered by diligent SY efforts £3M later, we're back to the initial sighting of a guy who looked like Gerry around ten PM on his way with a young girl down to the beach or dock area or whatever.



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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  pennylane on Thu 24 Oct - 19:52

widowan wrote:
pennylane wrote:I've just read Carrie Marie Bratley (sp?) of Portugal News in Lagoa is claiming the team were chosen for their emotional and physical distance from the case. " The team is separate from the six Portuguese officers based in Faro."

I think there's a split, and this is a new team!   We are being spun a confusing story as if Scotland Yard and the Faro team are working side by side, but neither of these are the ones working on the re-opened case from what I have read, and that's probably why Andy Redwood and the McCann's comments have been so muted.  I don't think any of them are in the loop.
It's well to be emotionally uninvolved, because if PJ did make a mistake in focusing on the parents - based on their own weird behavior, admittedly - you don't want the same group investigating now.

I think they are working side by side and sharing information but I will be happily surprised if it turns up anything - what have we gotten since the initial investigation?

The death of the highly prized Bundleman abductor, which TM heavily promoted  because they firmly believed he was the abductor- and the resurgence of the Smith sighting; also a PJ lead, plus blond men hanging around the resort or actually "lurking".

If I stand somewhere chatting I suppose I am lurking too but then you could say Gerry and Jez lurked around 5A  steps at the time of the kidnapping; Oldfield lurked around the apt or windows at the time of the kidnapping. All these lurkers and the ones who were meant to have been doing the lurking refused to reconstruct that activity in case it might not be "helpful?"

What happened to the Smiths I wonder? They called in to say the dad recognized or thought he recognized Gerry, was paid a visit by Kennedy's goons or whomever, the likelihood of the match with Gerry subsequently reduced to "70% certainty" - well, this is positioned as the new sighting evidently uncovered by diligent SY efforts £3M later, we're back to the initial sighting of a guy who looked like Gerry around ten PM on his way with a young girl down to the beach or dock area or whatever.


Hopefully this team isn't following Andy Redwood's abduction trail, that he's been so keen to promote.  

It's really unacceptable what Kennedy got up to isn't it?  He's the biggest lurker of all! How do Team McCann get away with their crap.  I'll never understand it!  As for Jane Tanner, she should be arrested for wasting police time! I don't believe for a second that SY identified the man she claims she saw.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  jinvta on Thu 24 Oct - 19:59

widowan wrote:What happened to the Smiths I wonder? They called in to say the dad recognized or thought he recognized Gerry, was paid a visit by Kennedy's goons or whomever, the likelihood of the match with Gerry subsequently reduced to "70% certainty" - well, this is positioned as the new sighting evidently uncovered by diligent SY efforts £3M later, we're back to the initial sighting of a guy who looked like Gerry around ten PM on his way with a young girl down to the beach or dock area or whatever.
 
And remember, Gerry has placed that guy in the apartment before his 9:10 pm check because the door was not as he had left it. And then Oldfield places that guy still in the apartment sometime after Gerry left becasue again the door was moved to half open after Gerry had closed it to 5 degrees. Guy in apartment at 9:15 pm, seen by Smiths 40 minutes later at 9:55 pm. Makes no sense at all and I am not buying it. SY are complete fools if they really believe this to be the case. Child snatchers don't hang around apartments for wander streets for 40 minutes, let alone 5 minutes!

Pennylane, I agree. I also don't believe for a minute that SY has identified this man that Tanner saw. I think that it may be a bluff.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  fuzeta on Thu 24 Oct - 20:02

I am very suspicious of all this happening now. I pray I am wrong but I think it is a way of exonerating the McCanns completely. here and in Portugal. There is something amiss, I would like to have Claudia's view on it.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  Claudia79 on Thu 24 Oct - 20:18

fuzeta wrote:I am very suspicious of all this happening now.  I pray I am wrong but I think it is a way of exonerating the McCanns completely. here and in Portugal.  There is something amiss, I would like to have Claudia's view on it.
Simple. Whitewash at the highest level. But I've been wrong before. Just not often.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  dazedandconfused on Thu 24 Oct - 20:22

fuzeta wrote:I am very suspicious of all this happening now.  I pray I am wrong but I think it is a way of exonerating the McCanns completely. here and in Portugal.  There is something amiss, I would like to have Claudia's view on it.
My thoughts too fuzeta. Hope we're proved wrong but I've got a nasty feeling about it all.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  fuzeta on Thu 24 Oct - 20:23

Claudia79 wrote:
fuzeta wrote:I am very suspicious of all this happening now.  I pray I am wrong but I think it is a way of exonerating the McCanns completely. here and in Portugal.  There is something amiss, I would like to have Claudia's view on it.
Simple. Whitewash at the highest level. But I've been wrong before. Just not often.
Thank you Claudia. You obviously have the same opinion as I. I hope that we are both wrong    

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  Claudia79 on Thu 24 Oct - 20:24

fuzeta wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
fuzeta wrote:I am very suspicious of all this happening now.  I pray I am wrong but I think it is a way of exonerating the McCanns completely. here and in Portugal.  There is something amiss, I would like to have Claudia's view on it.
Simple. Whitewash at the highest level. But I've been wrong before. Just not often.
Thank you Claudia.  You obviously have the same opinion as I.  I hope that we are both wrong    
So do I. I just find it highly unlikely.

       

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  fuzeta on Thu 24 Oct - 20:25

You as well D&C. Lets hope we are all wrong then    

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

Post  SteveT on Thu 24 Oct - 20:27

I for one believe that the abduction theory is just to allow the last pieces of information to be retrieved. I don't believe a cover up is happening and think that SY and the PJ are playing the McCanns at their own game. Roll on the trial.

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Re: MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

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