Andy Redwood...?

jeanmonroe wrote:

Panda wrote:

kitti wrote:http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_3051.jpg



The two phone calls to the GNR on 3rd

Sorry Kitti, I can't see the significance, can you explain?

The first call is 41 minutes 29 secs AFTER KM 'found' Madeleine 'gone'
The second one is 52 minutes 39 secs AFTER KM 'found' Madeleine 'gone'

But Mrs Fenn was told by GM that the police had been phoned straight away after Madeleine had gone and she wasn't to bother phoning the police as it had already been 'done'.

The first call to the GNR was over FORTY minutes AFTER KM's 'discovery'.

NO RUSH THEN!

No rush at all! She was gone so that was that. Finish your glass of wine and them phone the GNR.

It doesn't make any sense at all ..waiting that long to make the call ...unless you had thought like any normal person that Madeleine had wondered off. In that case you would have been searching high and low first.
As they supposedly knew immediately that she had been taken what was the holdup... I wonder.

Mrs fenn said she spoke to Gerry McCann just before 10.30pm....she said he Could use her phone to all the police...Gerry said it had already been done...

Kate McCann knew straight away Madeleine had been 'taken'.


Yet 10.41 they ring...

Perhaps, just perhaps, Mr Carpenter was used.

Is that when Gerry said a little girl had gone missing or words to that effect.

During the day nothing unusual happened, until almost 22.30 when, being alone again, she heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out “we have let her down” which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. Upon leaning over the terrace, after having seen the mother, Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30.

She said that after the mother’s shouts, she had seen many people in the streets looking for the girl. She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.

When asked, she replied that on 3rd May she did not hear any noise from the McCann apartment, not even the opening of doors. She also said that before hearing the shouts she was watching television, as she often stays up late.

That's it ...a girl ...so bloody cold.

Thanks jeanmonroe, didn't Gerry ask David Payne to go to the Office and get them to phone the Police??? [ Yes , the call is timed at 10.40pm at the Police station don't know what time they arrived but Gerry doing his lying on the floor screaming was definitely OTT as was the kneeling on the Bed. 

He asked Matt to go to the reception.

kitti wrote:He asked Matt to go to the reception.

So what happened ? The McCanns were on the balcony of their apartment at roughly 10'15pm according to Mrs Fenns Statement . She heard Kate screaming "we have let her down " I think she might have been thinking of Madeliene telling her she had cried the night before , and obviously the McCanns didn't let it spoil their evening. Instead of checking every 30 minutes, why didn't they check every 15 minutes? In fact no one checked from 9 til 10pm Kate never even checked, she relied in Matt for the
9.30pm check and he only listened by the Window.!!!

Neither Matt nor Gerry ever mentioned Matt going to the reception at 2210 - 2215 in the early interviews, this little tidbit was only introduced later when they started to get criticized for not notifiying police until 2240. IMO, either Gerry never asked Matt to go to reception, or he asked him to but he never actually went.

Timeline of GNR notification:

2228 John Hill, resort manager, notified via mobile phone by Lindsay from childcare that a child had gone missing
2233 John Hill arrives at resort 5 minutes later
2240 Helder Jorge Samaio Luis, receptionist, immediately contacted GNR Lagos upon the arrival of John Hill and Gerry McCann at the main reception (no mention of any other Tapas members coming to reception sooner, though he did mentionthat he had received a call from someone in the Tapas restaurant between 2130 and 2200 that a child had gone missing)

To me this timeline proves that nobody from the Tapas group went to reception to have someone call the GNR until the arrival of Mr Hill at 2235pm

Also, the fact that neither Gerry nor Matt mentions Matt's trip to reception, reinforces the likelihood that this alleged trip was a fabrication in order to take some heat off of the McCanns for not notifying the police until 40 minutes after Madeleine had been discovered missing

Matt has now been thrown under the bus twice - once for not actually looking in to see if Madeleine was in her room, and then again for not actually going to the reception as allegedly requested by Gerry

Their waiter said when he saw "a man" that he later identified as Gerry rushing to the play yard outside the tapas, he asked him if he should phone someone and Gerry said yes. that would have been around ten PM and Gerry may have thought that the relevant authorities had been called.

They say when you see something do call 911, lots of people don't do it because they think someone else must have.

I could see that Gerry may have thought with all the people offering to help and call etc that someone would have called not their manager, but the actual police, or that the actual police were not necessary at ten fifteen PM - only a few minutes after they found her missing.

I am not sure that them waiting to phone GNR themselves until 1030 or 1040 is so telling.

I personally would have done so immediately I suspected she was abducted or would have asked someone else to do so while I looked, however I would also have gone where Jane said she saw someone carrying a child, along that way, shouting for her and asking anyone I saw if they'd seen someone carrying a child that way, rather than to be looking at the crèche, or beach once I "knew" that Jane had seen the abductor. Why would Madeleine be at the crèche or at the beach if someone had abducted her?.

2228 John Hill, resort manager, notified via mobile phone by Lindsay from childcare that a child had gone missing"
 
 
Who notified Lindsay and where was she at the time, in the Office.?If so it's possible Matt did report Madeleine missing, Gerry was still on the balcony at that time.

Panda wrote:2228 John Hill, resort manager, notified via mobile phone by Lindsay from childcare that a child had gone missing"
 
 
Who notified Lindsay and where was she at the time, in the Office.?If so it's possible Matt did report Madeleine missing, Gerry was still on the balcony at that time.

 
From Lindsay Johnson's witness statement:
 
"On 3rd May at about 22.20 she was informed by her colleague Amy Tierney that Madeleine had disappeared, a fact which led to the initiation of the “Missing Child” procedure which consists of dividing various areas of the resort up between different employees in order to proceed in the search for the missing child."
 
and
 
"When questioned, the witness says that when she was informed about Madeleine’s disappearance she was alone at home and left immediately to initiate the procedure described above."
 
From Amy Tierney's witness statement:
 
"The witness confirms that the girl’s father went to the reception to call the police as soon as her disappearance was noticed and that twenty minutes had passed. The GNR took 30 – 35 minutes to arrive."
 
So apparently Gerry claimed to have gone to reception to notify the police shortly after 10pm, but the receptionist says that he did not hear about the disappearnce from Gerry and John Hill until 2240.
 
Also, we have Matthew Oldfield's rogartory statement:
 
"...so Fiona, I think, asked me to go and phone the Police, so I actually went down the route to where she would have gone for Nursery drop off, which his back to the, to the main reception essentially, so I went down that route looking for her at that time and I asked the reception to phone the Police, and that must have been about five past, it’s difficult to know what time it was at that time, but maybe about ten past ten, five past ten, ten past ten."

and

"And I think what the reception probably did was ring the MARK WARNER people and say, there’s somebody that’s saying there’s a child missing, because by that time there were lost of MARK WARNER people around, erm, and they were very good, they, you know, they obviously, you know, got there and that might have been the impetus that got them to ring the Police, if, because I understand that there is some discrepancy about when we thought we’d called the Police and when the Police were actually called and that might be that they went on the, on that route first and then went, I think it’s Stuart HILL or, well the Manager, the sort of Manager got involved, that might have been when it occurred."

So apparently Oldfield not only failed to check on Madeleine at 2130, but he also failed to ensure that the police were called at 2205 or 2210, resulting in a 30-40 minute delay. With friends like him, who needs enemies? And who asked him to notifiy the police - Fiona or Gerry?
 
There is no way that any of the resort workers or any of the other holiday makers should have been responsible for making sure that the call was made to the police. If it were me, I would have done it myself with the help of a translator, or I would have stood there while the call was being made. Both Gerry and Matthew, acting on his behalf, failed miserable in this respect.

It was Kate and Gerry's responsibility alone to notify the police, not anybody else whom they casually mentioned that a little girl had gone missing. If they were so sure that she had been abducted, then why even bother with the searches? At the very least, they should have let everyone else search, while ensuring that the relevant authorities were notified. Everyone else was still obviously under the impression that Madeleine had woke and wandered.

jinvta wrote:

Panda wrote:2228 John Hill, resort manager, notified via mobile phone by Lindsay from childcare that a child had gone missing"
 
 
Who notified Lindsay and where was she at the time, in the Office.?If so it's possible Matt did report Madeleine missing, Gerry was still on the balcony at that time.

 
From Lindsay Johnson's witness statement:
 
"On 3rd May at about 22.20 she was informed by her colleague Amy Tierney that Madeleine had disappeared, a fact which led to the initiation of the “Missing Child” procedure which consists of dividing various areas of the resort up between different employees in order to proceed in the search for the missing child."
 
and
 
"When questioned, the witness says that when she was informed about Madeleine’s disappearance she was alone at home and left immediately to initiate the procedure described above."
 
From Amy Tierney's witness statement:
 
"The witness confirms that the girl’s father went to the reception to call the police as soon as her disappearance was noticed and that twenty minutes had passed. The GNR took 30 – 35 minutes to arrive."
 
So apparently Gerry claimed to have gone to reception to notify the police shortly after 10pm, but the receptionist says that he did not hear about the disappearnce from Gerry and John Hill until 2240.
 
Also, we have Matthew Oldfield's rogartory statement:
 
"...so Fiona, I think, asked me to go and phone the Police, so I actually went down the route to where she would have gone for Nursery drop off, which his back to the, to the main reception essentially, so I went down that route looking for her at that time and I asked the reception to phone the Police, and that must have been about five past, it’s difficult to know what time it was at that time, but maybe about ten past ten, five past ten, ten past ten."

and

"And I think what the reception probably did was ring the MARK WARNER people and say, there’s somebody that’s saying there’s a child missing, because by that time there were lost of MARK WARNER people around, erm, and they were very good, they, you know, they obviously, you know, got there and that might have been the impetus that got them to ring the Police, if, because I understand that there is some discrepancy about when we thought we’d called the Police and when the Police were actually called and that might be that they went on the, on that route first and then went, I think it’s Stuart HILL or, well the Manager, the sort of Manager got involved, that might have been when it occurred."

So apparently Oldfield not only failed to check on Madeleine at 2130, but he also failed to ensure that the police were called at 2205 or 2210, resulting in a 30-40 minute delay. With friends like him, who needs enemies?  And who asked him to notifiy the police - Fiona or Gerry?
 
There is no way that any of the resort workers or any of the other holiday makers should have been responsible for making sure that the call was made to the police. If it were me, I would have done it myself with the help of a translator, or I would have stood there while the call was being made. Both Gerry and Matthew, acting on his behalf, failed miserable in this respect.

It was Kate and Gerry's responsibility alone to notify the police, not anybody else whom they casually mentioned that a little girl had gone missing. If they were so sure that she had been abducted, then why even bother with the searches? At the very least, they should have let everyone else search, while ensuring that the relevant authorities were notified. Everyone else was still obviously under the impression that Madeleine had woke and wandered.

Well done jinvta...aren't you the clever one. 

So we have established that Amy Tierney was notified by Matt, she went to tell Lindsay who was probably senior to her , Lindsay phones John Hill and he phoned the Police , the timelines fit and obviously there was the Language problem . From what we have read Gerry never showed up until the Police arrive or he went searching on his own. Wierd Parents by any standards .!!!!

Something is very strange about all of this. Amy Tierney was in the McCann's apartment shortly after the alarm was raised. Gerry left almost immediately, claiming that he was going to the reception to call the police, which he did not do, nor did he ensure that the call was made. What was Gerry doing during this time if he did not go to the main reception area to notify the police? Why did he lie about going to the main reception?
 
Gerry also claimed to have asked Matt to call the police, though Matt claimed that it was Fiona who asked him to call. Why would Gerry ask Matt to call the police, if he indeed went to go call the police himself as he had told Amy Tierney? Matt apparently also failed to call the police, or at the very least ensure that the receptionist called the police.
 
John Hill did not actually phone the police, but he and Gerry were both in the reception area when the receptionist phoned the police.
 
The receptionist claimed to have not been notified about the disappearance until 2240, while both Gerry and Matt had claimed to inform the receptionist much earlier. I tend to believe the receptionist in this instance, as he would have no reason to lie. Matt and Gerry, on the other hand, or any of the Tapas lot for that matter, made no mention of any visits to the main reception to call the police in their early interviews. Therefore, it is clear that none of the Tapas lot visited the main reception until 2240 when John Hill arrived and the police were notified.

That's about right jinvta Amy is at Reception about 10.15 Matt comes in and tells A child is missing - Amy goes to Lindsay to tell her and lindsay uses her mobile to call John Hill around 22.23

"On 3rd May at about 22.20 Amy went to Lindsay's Room "Lindsay phones John Hill at at around 22.23pm "

Panda wrote:That's about right jinvta Amy is at Reception about 10.15 Matt comes in and tells A child is missing - Amy goes to Lindsay to tell her and lindsay uses her mobile to call John Hill around 22.23

"On 3rd May at about 22.20  Amy went to Lindsay's Room "Lindsay phones John Hill at at around 22.23pm "

 
 
Amy doesn't state who notified her that Madeleine had gone missing, nor does she state where she was when she found out. This is all she says in her statement:
 
"She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding."
 
I assume this to mean that she was working in the night creche at the time that she found out.

jinvta wrote:

Panda wrote:That's about right jinvta Amy is at Reception about 10.15 Matt comes in and tells A child is missing - Amy goes to Lindsay to tell her and lindsay uses her mobile to call John Hill around 22.23

"On 3rd May at about 22.20  Amy went to Lindsay's Room "Lindsay phones John Hill at at around 22.23pm "

 
 
Amy doesn't state who notified her that Madeleine had gone missing, nor does she state where she was when she found out. This is all she says in her statement:
 
"She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding."
 
I assume this to mean that she was working in the night creche at the time that she found out.

Right, sorry, I thought she was on duty at Reception ....strange that she should mention "raised shutter"
and "partially open window".........Iv'e read that scenario before. 

I was going to say the same or at least question where Amy T saw the open window and shutter.

If someone offers to call for you, it is not your responsibility to stand over them making sure they do it when you are out of your mind with worry; you ought to be able to trust someone to do a simple task they have offered to do, like call the cops. Surely that is simple enough. the cops speak Portuguese and having the waiter call them for you since he is bilingual makes a lot of sense to me. They also had Matt supposedly taking care of it.

These people have difficulty getting things done...

widowan wrote:If someone offers to call for you, it is not your responsibility to stand over them making sure they do it when you are out of your mind with worry; you ought to be able to trust someone to do a simple task they have offered to do, like call the cops. Surely that is simple enough. the cops speak Portuguese and having the waiter call them for you since he is bilingual makes a lot of sense to me. They also had Matt supposedly taking care of it.

These people have difficulty getting things done...

They also have difficulty in remembering what they have said and to whom!!!!

Keela wrote:

widowan wrote:If someone offers to call for you, it is not your responsibility to stand over them making sure they do it when you are out of your mind with worry; you ought to be able to trust someone to do a simple task they have offered to do, like call the cops. Surely that is simple enough. the cops speak Portuguese and having the waiter call them for you since he is bilingual makes a lot of sense to me. They also had Matt supposedly taking care of it.

These people have difficulty getting things done...

They also have difficulty in remembering what they have said and to whom!!!!

People think they are so smart and organized all of this so cleverly, but when you actually look at what they have "accomplished" - from losing madeleine in the first instance, their lousy checking system, their crap detectives, their "wider agenda" - they actually haven't done all that well.

They have achieved notoriety and made it impossible for the twins to ever live a normal life.

For normal people that would be a miserable situation but for them who knows.