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Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

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Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  interested on Fri 27 Dec - 23:09

See www.mccannfiles.com for Dr. Martin Roberts' latest post entitled "Curtains for the McCanns". It is dated 26 December 2013 and can be seen under 'latest news' (scroll down).

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  jinvta on Sat 28 Dec - 5:28


Curtains for the McCanns

Kate McCann, RTE One interview

EXCLUSIVE to mccannfiles.com

By Dr Martin Roberts
26 December 2013


CURTAINS FOR THE McCANNS

Kate McCann (interviewed)

"Well the shutter was up and the window was open, I'm not lying about that, and even if they want to say theoretically, 'oh she wandered out the back of the apartment', then they're basically saying a three-year old has opened the long curtains, closed them behind her, opened the patio doors, closed them behind her, opened the gate at the top of the stairs, closed that behind her (GM interjecting: 'with the child lock') and done the same at the bottom... you know it's just not... it's not possible."

So let's get this straight. The repertoire of manoeuvres described here by Kate McCann is what daughter Madeleine must have done had she departed 5A on her own initiative that Thursday night, May 3, 2007. That being so then the same observations must apply to the last person to have exited 5A via the patio before Kate McCann revisited the apartment at 10.00 p.m., necessarily navigating her way past all the re-positioned obstructions she personally describes in her interview. But there's a hitch.

If the McCanns had ever had their house ransacked they would know full well that burglars never tidy up after them, whether escaping with valuables (e.g., jewellery) or, in the McCann scheme of the world, incidentals, like a child in arms. Hence anyone fleeing the scene of the crime prior to Matthew Oldfield's 9.30 p.m. inspection would not have bothered to draw the drapes behind them, re-set the child-proof lock on the gate, etc., etc. And, if we examine Matthew Oldfield's various (redacted) accounts of his utterly pointless, and eventually fruitless, entry into the McCanns' apartment, we discover that he makes no reference whatsoever to unlocking gates or drawing back heavy curtains; only going through the door and 'seeing the light':

MO first statement

"That the door through which he entered the apartment was closed but not locked. That he doesn't know if it is usual for Madeleine's parents to leave the door closed but not locked in so far as that door is visible from the restaurant."

MO second statement

"...he took the quickest route between Russell's apartment and the side garden gate entrance to the rear patio of the McCann residence, to which he gained access through the glass sliding door into the apartment lounge. The door was closed but not locked as Kate had said it would be."

MO rogatory interview

"So I thought I might as well and I can report back and they can be, you know, be reassured that everything was okay. And we talked a lot in the previous interviews about what state the shutters were in, whether they were, and they were all definitely down, there's three shutters, you know, there's, you know, two, and they're all at the same level, there was no, I would have noticed if they were, if one was up and the rest were down, it would have looked odd.

"I went in to check on G**** and actually went in through the door, unlocked the door, looked in, into her room, all fine.

"So I went back and did the check on five 'A', on Madeleine and the kids, erm, and went back through the patio entrance, so through the gate, through the patio doors, erm, there was, it was light enough to see through the apartment and there sort of a little table light on the right at the end of the sofa and when you walk into the room, you could see straight into it, because the door was open.

"And I just sort of came back out really through the same way and shutting the patio doors.

4078 "Okay. Did you leave by the patio door?"

Reply "Yeah, back the same way, because this door would have been locked and that's the shortest way anyway of coming through there, so I would have gone back out the same door."

Clearly the only effort expended by Matthew Oldfield was in sliding back the patio door – hypothetically. He does not even conclude here with his exit as a statement of fact, merely one of likelihood ('I would have gone back out the same door'). There's really no call for the subjunctive mood in a situation as cut-and-dried as this one is attempting to be.

But back to the curtains.

It seems as though the abductor has already struck, and that Oldfield, in his naivety, has failed to notice the unlocked gate(s), the withdrawn drapes or the victim's absence. So he 'just sort of came back out really through the same way and shutting the patio doors', redressing absolutely nothing. How then did Kate McCann encounter all those closures, if neither the child snatcher nor Matthew Oldfield was responsible for them, to say nothing of Madeleine herself?

Oh, I know. The abductor wove in and out of the passers by to snatch his victim in-between Oldfield's visit at 9.30 (when all the shutters were down) and Kate McCann's return at 10.00 (when the bedroom shutter was open).

But he would still have left the patio curtains drawn back, the doors open and the gates unlocked.

Since we may reasonably infer, from Kate McCann's own description of the status quo at the time, that no sign of interference was evident (apart, that is, from the open bedroom window and raised shutter, something which Kate McCann would not lie about at least), it is therefore highly likely that no-one left 5A in a desperate hurry via the patio during this second half-hour either.

The non-discerning might, I suppose, subscribe to the poodle's prediction that, 'he got out of the window fairly easily', like a stale odour perhaps, or that he simply walked out through the front door, which Matthew Oldfield has already told us 'would have been locked'. There's 'no way' of course that Madeleine herself could have done either of those things, is there?

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Sat 28 Dec - 9:20

Matt Oldfield since rescinded his Statement to say he did not go into the Apartment but listened at the window .

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Wintabells on Sat 28 Dec - 21:07

Panda wrote:Matt Oldfield since rescinded his Statement to say he did not go into the Apartment but listened at the window .

Hi Panda

I have read others referring to Oldfield not having gone inside 5a at 9.30pm at all, and you're saying this too, so I'm really interested to know where this new info has come from - I seem to have completely missed it!

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 28 Dec - 21:23

Panda wrote:Matt Oldfield since rescinded his Statement to say he did not go into the Apartment but listened at the window .

Panda, I'm pretty sure Oldfield listened at the window on his first trip (or said he did!) and then said that he went in on his second trip.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Sat 28 Dec - 22:35

AnnaEsse wrote:
Panda wrote:Matt Oldfield since rescinded his Statement to say he did not go into the Apartment but listened at the window .

Panda, I'm pretty sure Oldfield listened at the window on his first trip (or said he did!) and then said that he went in on his second trip.

How could he have done a second trip AnnaEsse. ? At 8.30pm Kate was supposed to check but Oldfield was checking on his child so said he would check 5a , Gerry went at 9pm and nobody checked on 5a until Kate at 10pm when she raised the alarm. Initially Oldfield said he had gone into 5a and opened the bedroom door, then rescinded his statement and said he had not gone into 5a. I just wonder why he felt the need to say he hadn't gone into 5a.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Lioned on Sat 28 Dec - 22:46

Oldfield did two checks.

This according to crimewatch.....

At about 9.0pm Matt gets up to go and check on the children.So Matt has left the table.Shortly after 9.0pm gerry says thats about half an hour i'm going to check (or words similiar),so when gerry gets up this time Matt is not there,he has already gone.
Gerry enters the apartment and notices that the door to the bedroom is open wider than before and assumes Matt left it that way.

That is Oldfields first 'check' which i believe he didn't enter the apartment he listened at the window (someone please correct me if that is wrong)

Look again at Matts 'rog' statement

Reply "So, erm, back to the table, erm, we have, oh, back to the table, Gerry got up to go and, to go and check on his kids, I mean, and I'd come back and said, you know, I didn't hear any noise when I listened outside your room, so I thought it was a little bit odd that, you know, not kind of a wounded pride that he sort of didn't trust me, but, erm, I just thought, oh, you know, I've just checked you don't really need to check and sort of, you know, sort of go back, but, erm, he sort of got up and went back to check on, erm, on his kids. But, you know, you don't, you know, we're all sort of responsible for our own children and you wouldn't sort of say, you know, you don't need to do that, I just sort of felt, oh I've listened, you don't need to do that because I've kind of just done it, but I hadn't gone into the apartment, so, erm".

Matt returns to the table and gerry is there and gets up to go check.Matt is clearly talking here about his second 'check'.
According to this both Matt and SY revised timeline puts gerry away from the table around 9,30pm

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Sat 28 Dec - 23:14

Matt definitely checked at 8.30pm when it was Kate's turn, the 9pm one was probably the one he rescinded , Gerry definitely checked at 9pm and Redwood said no one checked between 9 and 10pm. I remember Matts Lawyer saying Oldfield was going back to Portugal to amend his initial Statement .

Probably also to say he did not enter the Apartment at 8.30pm but listened at the window.

The more you read these statements the more you wonder why the Portugese did not insist on a recon , who knows what might have happened if their lies had been exposed.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  fuzeta on Sat 28 Dec - 23:17

Curtains for the McCanns? I doubt it but oh how I wish

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  kitti on Sun 29 Dec - 7:48

Look, KNOWONE believes he went in but unless there is or was a person either saw him listening at the mccanns shutters the second time or someone close to him is willing to state he didnt go in then we have no choice but to believe him...


I still think Oldfield was returning a 'favour' for Gerry McCann.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Sun 29 Dec - 10:21

kitti wrote:Look, KNOWONE believes he went in but unless there is or was a person either saw him listening at the mccanns shutters the second time or someone close to him  is willing to state he didnt go in then we have no choice but to believe him...


I still think Oldfield was returning a 'favour' for Gerry McCann.

I am not so sure Kitti,how far did their friendship go? I think the Tapas 7 deliberately distanced themselves when it became clear that the McCanns had been made aguidos. None of them appeared in Court as witnesses for the McCanns and none of them has ever given an interview. I think Oldfield returned to Portugal because he could see the McCanns were suspects and he couldn't lie under oath .

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  jinvta on Sun 29 Dec - 19:41

Oldfield allegedly (according to his statements) did a listening check at 8:55/9:00. He originally stated that the Payne's were already at the table when he went for this check, but later changed his statement to say that the check occurred earlier and the purpose was to hurry up the Paynes who had not yet arrived. Why the change in the purpose of this early check, who knows? Kate claims it was actually Russell who left at 9 pm, just before Gerry, so there could be some truth to her slip up. Amaral claims that Russell was gone for a very long time (45 minutes), so perhaps Oldfield was covering for Russell's absense.

Oldfield then claims to have gone into the McCanns apartment at 9:25/9:30. He notes two windows (not one) and that the color of the curtains were green (not blue), so it is highy unlikely that the man ever stepped foot anywhere near the inside of the apartment. Also, based on the position of where Gerry/Matt/Kate found the door, we are expected to believe that:

1) The abductor entered the apartment sometime between 8:30 and 9 pm to open the door to half open for Gerry to find it that way at his 9:05 check

2) The abductor was still in the apartment after Gerry left so he could open the door to 50 degrees for Matt to find it this way after Gerry had closed it to 5 degrees

3) The abductor was still in the apartment after Matt left so he could open the door to completely open for Kate to find it shis way after Matt had left it at 50 degrees

The scenario that Oldfield checked on the McCann children at all is completely implausible. I still believe that he holds the key to this mystery and it must be determined why he was lying through his teeth and why he changed his statement between his witness statement and his rogatory.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  widowan on Sun 29 Dec - 20:30

jinvta wrote:
Curtains for the McCanns

Kate McCann, RTE One interview

EXCLUSIVE to mccannfiles.com

By Dr Martin Roberts
26 December 2013


CURTAINS FOR THE McCANNS

Kate McCann (interviewed)

"Well the shutter was up and the window was open, I'm not lying about that, and even if they want to say theoretically, 'oh she wandered out the back of the apartment', then they're basically saying a three-year old has opened the long curtains, closed them behind her, opened the patio doors, closed them behind her, opened the gate at the top of the stairs, closed that behind her (GM interjecting: 'with the child lock') and done the same at the bottom... you know it's just not... it's not possible."

So let's get this straight. The repertoire of manoeuvres described here by Kate McCann is what daughter Madeleine must have done had she departed 5A on her own initiative that Thursday night, May 3, 2007. That being so then the same observations must apply to the last person to have exited 5A via the patio before Kate McCann revisited the apartment at 10.00 p.m., necessarily navigating her way past all the re-positioned obstructions she personally describes in her interview. But there's a hitch.

If the McCanns had ever had their house ransacked they would know full well that burglars never tidy up after them, whether escaping with valuables (e.g., jewellery) or, in the McCann scheme of the world, incidentals, like a child in arms. Hence anyone fleeing the scene of the crime prior to Matthew Oldfield's 9.30 p.m. inspection would not have bothered to draw the drapes behind them, re-set the child-proof lock on the gate, etc., etc. And, if we examine Matthew Oldfield's various (redacted) accounts of his utterly pointless, and eventually fruitless, entry into the McCanns' apartment, we discover that he makes no reference whatsoever to unlocking gates or drawing back heavy curtains; only going through the door and 'seeing the light':

MO first statement

"That the door through which he entered the apartment was closed but not locked. That he doesn't know if it is usual for Madeleine's parents to leave the door closed but not locked in so far as that door is visible from the restaurant."

MO second statement

"...he took the quickest route between Russell's apartment and the side garden gate entrance to the rear patio of the McCann residence, to which he gained access through the glass sliding door into the apartment lounge. The door was closed but not locked as Kate had said it would be."

MO rogatory interview

"So I thought I might as well and I can report back and they can be, you know, be reassured that everything was okay. And we talked a lot in the previous interviews about what state the shutters were in, whether they were, and they were all definitely down, there's three shutters, you know, there's, you know, two, and they're all at the same level, there was no, I would have noticed if they were, if one was up and the rest were down, it would have looked odd.

"I went in to check on G**** and actually went in through the door, unlocked the door, looked in, into her room, all fine.

"So I went back and did the check on five 'A', on Madeleine and the kids, erm, and went back through the patio entrance, so through the gate, through the patio doors, erm, there was, it was light enough to see through the apartment and there sort of a little table light on the right at the end of the sofa and when you walk into the room, you could see straight into it, because the door was open.

"And I just sort of came back out really through the same way and shutting the patio doors.

4078 "Okay. Did you leave by the patio door?"

Reply "Yeah, back the same way, because this door would have been locked and that's the shortest way anyway of coming through there, so I would have gone back out the same door."

Clearly the only effort expended by Matthew Oldfield was in sliding back the patio door – hypothetically. He does not even conclude here with his exit as a statement of fact, merely one of likelihood ('I would have gone back out the same door'). There's really no call for the subjunctive mood in a situation as cut-and-dried as this one is attempting to be.

But back to the curtains.

It seems as though the abductor has already struck, and that Oldfield, in his naivety, has failed to notice the unlocked gate(s), the withdrawn drapes or the victim's absence. So he 'just sort of came back out really through the same way and shutting the patio doors', redressing absolutely nothing. How then did Kate McCann encounter all those closures, if neither the child snatcher nor Matthew Oldfield was responsible for them, to say nothing of Madeleine herself?

Oh, I know. The abductor wove in and out of the passers by to snatch his victim in-between Oldfield's visit at 9.30 (when all the shutters were down) and Kate McCann's return at 10.00 (when the bedroom shutter was open).

But he would still have left the patio curtains drawn back, the doors open and the gates unlocked.

Since we may reasonably infer, from Kate McCann's own description of the status quo at the time, that no sign of interference was evident (apart, that is, from the open bedroom window and raised shutter, something which Kate McCann would not lie about at least), it is therefore highly likely that no-one left 5A in a desperate hurry via the patio during this second half-hour either.

The non-discerning might, I suppose, subscribe to the poodle's prediction that, 'he got out of the window fairly easily', like a stale odour perhaps, or that he simply walked out through the front door, which Matthew Oldfield has already told us 'would have been locked'. There's 'no way' of course that Madeleine herself could have done either of those things, is there?
==============================================
Well, wait.

Oldfields left their doors locked - that's why Matt needed to unlock his door to check Grace. He couldn't have gone in to see her from his own patio doors by unlocking them because the patio doors only unlock from inside.So he went in the front and went out the front. onew apt over from McCanns. Surely the easiest and most likely listening check would be to simply pass by their kids' window and listen.

They - Oldfields- had the apt next to the mcCanns which also had a front door which locked from the inside and was accessible form the outside by a key, or a patio door which could only be unlocked from inside. And locked fronm the inside, like any sliding glass patio door I know of,.

So he went the front way to get into his own apt., let himself in with his key, went out that same way (he doesn't say he went out his own patio door leaving it unlocked as he'd have had to if he left by his own patio door) then went to check McCanns from their patio door which was left closed but unlocked - don't you have to go around from the outside, back to the other entrance -the one visible from the tapas, the one K&G said they left unlocked -in order to check inside their apt?

so he is not willing to leave his own patio door unlocked and goes the long way around to check Grace, but then walks back from his own front door, around through the patio entrance to Mccanns? Since everyone was responsible for their own kids it seems unlikely that a casual check by Oldfield would have been via the McCanns' patio doors - he'd have likely simply passed by the McCaNNS' front door (left locked, so no way he could get in), and near their kids' bedroom window - where shutters would be easily visible either up or down.

I don't like the subjunctive here AT ALL - it's like he's describing how he WOULD HAVE DONE IT in order to make it fit.

if I were checking my own apt next to Mccanns by MY front door, 30 feet from theirs? - and if I left by MY FRONT DOOR, and passed by THEIR front door - mind you only ten minutes since Gerry returned from his 910 -915 check, when matt says he left to take Kate's place as the 930 check, I'd have done a listening check at that window - 3 feet from THEIR front door. Not gone around the building then in by their patio door. That's way too much checking that even their own parents weren't willing to do.

He doesn't say how he exited Russell's door after he went to check in with Russell.

If Matt went by Russell's apt after he checked Grace, then which door did he leave OBrien's by? Where was their apt compared to his and 5A? I thought they were a bit further off or up a level? Did he go into their apt ? how odd, if so. Let me in so I can leave out the back and check Gerry's kids whom I know have an open door just below here?

I can't see him going into and out of his own apt by his front door then going the long way round to check madeleine when a listening check would surely do since it was only ten minutes from the time Gerry would have returned from HIS check. Gerry was there at 910-915 then returned to the Tapas, only 10-15 minutes later Matt would have leapt up to check again.

in fact why ANYONE even Kate would leave at 930 to check Madeleine after her husnand returned is beyond me. Surely the half hour checking clock would begin ticking from when Gerry had last been there, not from when he GOT UP from the table at 905.

Matt doesn't say how he verified Russell's needs at that time. Did he go into ObRien's flat? And leave out their patio doors? I don't get it.

If he did a window check he too would have left the tapas at 930 and not returned until many minutes later, due to all his nonsense in the OBrien flat and McCann flat. Say he gets back at 940 or 945, Kate would not need to get up to do her check in the middle of dinner just 15 minutes after Matt returned telling them all quiet?

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  jinvta on Sun 29 Dec - 21:44

MO second statement

"...he took the quickest route between Russell's apartment and the side garden gate entrance to the rear patio of the McCann residence, to which he gained access through the glass sliding door into the apartment lounge. The door was closed but not locked as Kate had said it would be."

Good point widowan. It was only the Payne's who were on the floor above, the rest of the apartments were on the ground floor. Surely the "quickest route" referred to above would have involved Oldfield exiting O'Brien's patio door, which O'Brien could have locked behind him as Oldfield left.

I believe that Oldfield and O'Brien tried to explain away the timing of this check as coinciding with a lull between courses (they had just finished starters and were awaiting for the main course to arrive). However, the timing is ridiculous given that both Tanner and Gerry would have just returned only 10-15 minutes earlier. It would have made much more sense to wait until the meal was finished to conduct the next round of checks. Further, if they were so diligent about checks, conducting them every 15 minutes, then why did neither Oldfield stand up to check on their daughter when Kate got up to check more than 30 minutes past the last check on Grace? For some reason the Oldfields, who arrived at 2045, checked at 2100 and 2125, did not feet it was necessary to conduct another check at 2200. Even more suspicious, is why didn't Kate offer to return the favor of checking on the Oldfield's child at this time?

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Mon 30 Dec - 9:04

The McCanns had the side gate which made it easier for them to check, yet proved to be the most negligent. !! I think the Oldfields and Obrien/Tanner were quite happy to do their own checking. It would be interesting to see the Cardboard Page again showing their timelines .

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  widowan on Mon 30 Dec - 15:53

jinvta wrote:Oldfield allegedly (according to his statements) did a listening check at 8:55/9:00. He originally stated that the Payne's were already at the table when he went for this check, but later changed his statement to say that the check occurred earlier and the purpose was to hurry up the Paynes who had not yet arrived. Why the change in the purpose of this early check, who knows? Kate claims it was actually Russell who left at 9 pm, just before Gerry, so there could be some truth to her slip up. Amaral claims that Russell was gone for a very long time (45 minutes), so perhaps Oldfield was covering for Russell's absense.

Oldfield then claims to have gone into the McCanns apartment at 9:25/9:30. He notes two windows (not one) and that the color of the curtains were green (not blue), so it is highy unlikely that the man ever stepped foot anywhere near the inside of the apartment.  Also, based on the position of where Gerry/Matt/Kate found the door, we are expected to believe that:

1) The abductor entered the apartment sometime between 8:30 and 9 pm to open the door to half open for Gerry to find it that way at his 9:05 check

2) The abductor was still in the apartment after Gerry left so he could open the door to 50 degrees for Matt to find it this way after Gerry had closed it to 5 degrees

3) The abductor was still in the apartment after Matt left so he could open the door to completely open for Kate to find it shis way after Matt had left it at 50 degrees

The scenario that Oldfield checked on the McCann children at all is completely implausible. I still believe that he holds the key to this mystery and it must be determined why he was lying through his teeth and why he changed his statement between his witness statement and his rogatory.

Didn't McCann testify on his behalf on some medical malpractice case Oldfield was embroiled in? I recall him owing Gerry a favor unless that was a forum myth. Completely making up a visit to his child's bedside, screwing up the timeline of the investigation and making the parents look guilty is a funny way of repaying him.

Of course if McCanns DID do something to Madeleine, then helping them cover it up actually seems like a huge favor to ask of anyone, I don't care if they helped you win your malpractice case; you are going to prison and lose your kids and lose your job and profession - due to a professional favor?

Oldfield clearly lied, he changed his story about going right IN to the room, to just being outside the door and not going in. Outside the bedroom door that is.

Thus, allowing for MM to have been gone by 930 ( since Jane saw bundleman at 915 and that ws Gerry's alibi,) - he'd have had to have encountered the doors and window etc open and MM gone, had he actually looked into the bedroom.

I guess that was the reason for the waffling about the bedroom seeming more light some how - ie, the shutters would have been up, since kate did not open them herself - although on a dark night it'd still be dark, but "less dark" than he "would have expected" (there's that subjunctive) had the shutters been down.

It is all BS.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  widowan on Mon 30 Dec - 15:56

And yes for SY to open the timeline to between 9 and 10 seems to indicate they do not think Oldfield made this check at ALL. Passing by the window on the way in to his own apt he'd have seen it open and the shutters "smashed and jimmied" or going into the house itself, during the "time" of the abduction.

His statement when you read it screams This is lies. Maybe when he was actually saying it, it sounded more certain and honest.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  widowan on Mon 30 Dec - 16:18

jinvta wrote:MO second statement

"...he took the quickest route between Russell's apartment and the side garden gate entrance to the rear patio of the McCann residence, to which he gained access through the glass sliding door into the apartment lounge. The door was closed but not locked as Kate had said it would be."

Good point widowan. It was only the Payne's who were on the floor above, the rest of the apartments were on the ground floor. Surely the "quickest route" referred to above would have involved Oldfield exiting O'Brien's patio door, which O'Brien could have locked behind him as Oldfield left.

I believe that Oldfield and O'Brien tried to explain away the timing of this check as coinciding with a lull between courses (they had just finished starters and were awaiting for the main course to arrive). However, the timing is ridiculous given that both Tanner and Gerry would have just returned only 10-15 minutes earlier. It would have made much more sense to wait until the meal was finished to conduct the next round of checks. Further, if they were so diligent about checks, conducting them every 15 minutes, then why did neither Oldfield stand up to check on their daughter when Kate got up to check more than 30 minutes past the last check on Grace? For some reason the Oldfields, who arrived at 2045, checked at 2100 and 2125, did not feet it was necessary to conduct another check at 2200. Even more suspicious, is why didn't Kate offer to return the favor of checking on the Oldfield's child at this time?

Exactly - the closest route from OBrien to McCann thru patio doors is only if you go out their back patio door ? - and he never says he WENT IN to OBrien's apt when calling round for OBrien. Obrien stayed there because his kid was lying in her vomit. So Oldfield goes BACK - does he go in? Is he really trying to chivvy OBrien into returning to the BAR with him, with his daughter so ill? Or checking if OBrien has a message for his wife - or needs anything; okay. Go from your apt, leaving it locked - which has to be via the front door - to Obrien's, and then what?

This interview isn't very interested in what he did in OBrien's apt and I would be very interested. After all, OBRien is away from the table when MM goes missing, there is a child crying and vomiting in his apt - for all the investigation knows that could be Madeleine in there.

If I am Obrien busy with my ill child, I will open the front door to Matt and say "I'm afraid Evie is ill, I can't go back - tell Jane to bring me something to eat, thanks" - then shut the door. I would not be inviting him in to use my house as a short cut to check on McCanns. But if he DID go in - rather rudely "Can I just duck through here to go down and check on McCanns kids?" then you would think he would say so.

if he left out his own patio door then he'd have said that.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  jinvta on Tue 31 Dec - 1:46

From Russell's witness statement:

At around 9.35/9.40, taking advantage of the lull between two courses, the informant left the restaurant with Matthew to check the children. When he got there, his daughter **** was crying. He stayed in her bedroom with her. He supposes that Matthew checked his apartment. Matthew returned to the restaurant five minutes after leaving it. His partner came to take his place in ****'s bedroom around 15 minutes later after finishing dinner.

Russell's statement is very odd. He makes no mention of Matthew coming back to his apartment, in fact, he claims to not even know whether or not Matt in fact did check his own apartment. Yet, somehow he seems to know that Matthew returned to the restaurant only five minutes after leaving it. Wow! Is he a mind reader? Five minutes is awfully quick to check on your own child, go to Russell's apartment to check and see how Russell and his daughter are doing, and then walk around and check on the McCann children on the way back. It all sounds rather contrived.

So, let us have a look at Matthew's witness statement:

At around 9.25pm, the interviewee went into his apartment and Madeleine's apartment to check on the children. He states that the door of the fourth apartment (room?), that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was half-open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots. That he couldn't see the bed occupied by Madeleine, but as it was all quiet, he deduced that she was sleeping. That the light in question was from an artificial source but not inside the bedroom, rather from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open.

The apartment has two bedrooms, a lounge, a small kitchen and a bathroom. The couple's bedroom has a window which is visible from the restaurant. The children's bedroom windows look out on the road outside the tourist complex. Then the interviewee went back to the restaurant.

He states that the bedroom has two windows. The twins occupy two cots placed in the middle of the room and Madeleine occupies a bed pushed against the wall, facing the wall which has the two windows that look out onto the outside of the complex. That the door through which he entered the apartment was closed but not locked. That he doesn't know if it is usual for Madeleine's parents to leave the door closed but not locked because that door is visible from the restaurant.

Strange that, no mention of Russell going with him on the check, in fact no mention of Russell at all. How could he have completely forgotten about Russell? Kate claims that Russell was the one who left to conduct at check at 9 pm (not Matthew), so perhaps Russell was gone from the table for much longer than he claims (Amaral thinks it was 45 minutes).

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Tue 31 Dec - 5:06

I think Russell's statement is questionable. It is a known fact that Jane Tanner went to check on their children about the same time as Gerry checked on his, she discovered their daughter had been sick and rushed back to tell Russell. He was in the middle of eating his steak dinner and the Cook kept it warm for him while he went to attend to his daughter. When he returned the rest of the group had left the restaurant and he finished off his steak , with only Fiona's Mother for Company I presume.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  jinvta on Tue 31 Dec - 6:23

Panda wrote:I think Russell's statement is questionable. It is a known fact that Jane Tanner went to check on their children about the same time as Gerry checked on his,  she discovered their daughter had been sick and rushed back to tell Russell. He was in the middle of eating his steak dinner and the Cook kept it warm for him while he went to attend to his daughter. When he returned the rest of the group had left the restaurant and he finished off his steak , with only Fiona's Mother for Company I presume.

I think that many would beg to differ with you on it being a known fact that Tanner checked at all. Both Amaral and Inspector Moura believed that Tanner never left the table that night, and based on the evidence, I would agree with them. There is absolutely no way that Tanner could have walked by Jez and Gerry talking on the narrow path without either of them seeing her. She was likely lying to cover up Russell's extended absence (rumored to be 9:00 - 9:45), as allegedly he came back to the table just before Kate got up to do her infamous check. Kate claims that it was Russell (not Matt) who got up just before Gerry at 9 pm.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  widowan on Wed 1 Jan - 18:38

There are no known facts! That's the hell of this timeline! And why it would have been so helpful to reconstruct the event, unless you are part of the T9 and know you'll be caught in a web of lies and improbabilities.

Why would Matt go at 830 to chivvy Paynes along (he met them coming as he went there) then again at 9, to be offended that Gerry went just as he returned, thus leaving the impression he did not trust Matt's check, then again at 925?

The poor guy didn't have a chance to sit and eat his food. All of this running and checking out of a sense of guilt that they were holding up the proceedings at the bar, and hogging too much time away from other diners? From a person who has no guilt about leaving his child alone 5 nights in a row, it doesn't wash as a motive.

He comes across as quite a helpful person to the point of being some sort of self appointed lackey.

His good offices are not appreciated I feel sure - how much do you appreciate some guy coming to "hurry" you to dinner when you are trying to put 2 kids to bed?  How is that possible? " Hurry and leave the kids even if they're still awake, we need to ORDER?"  

Wouldn't you kill him if he did that to you? It's rather control freakish and infringing, I know there are people like that, but do you go on holiday with them?

Paynes are adults, they knew what time the reservations were made, as Fiona had made them, and they know how to tell time. Having someone barge up to your flat just when you desperately need it to be SILENT so you can sneak out would not be a help, and that is what would have happened, evidently, had they not crossed his path on their way to the Tapas bar.

Gerry clearly didn't appreciate Matt's 9 pm check since he arose instantly Matt returned, to do it again, at 905. Did Matt even leave the table at 9? I doubt it. He'd have just returned from his check and chivvying exercise and now that all were at the table it is time to order starters and suck down another glass of wine before you go out again.

Then we have the 925 check with Russell who doesn't say whether Matt came in and left via the patio doors - again, how helpful it is to have someone doing this when your child is in that condition and you are in the midst of bathing an upset, ill, crying child and washing out her bedding? Not very. Let me just interrupt you to dash through your house on my way to check McCanns' kids because that is the top priority for us all; although he didn't appreciate it the last time.

Matt doesn't recall going over there to do that  or state that he did so in this interview - and it stands to reason he didn't do it. Or he did it and left it out then added it later?

I think he went to his own via his locked front door as that is the only way he could have gone IN to check since his patio doors were locked - or he stood outside Grace's window and listened - and went back again out his locking front door and past McCanns' locked front door and their kids' window.

I don't think he went through anyone's patio door, his or O'Brien's,  to the patio door of 5 A - to see nothing helpful and a few things that didn't exist (first Madeleine in her bed, then no, I didn't see her - then blue curtains and light coming from outside the room which would have meant the shutters were open - the shutters he had to have passed, seeing them closed initially, on ihs way to check his own child, were now open, on his way back).

So the bad guy was NOT in the house yet at 925 ish on his way PAST them to his own apt - but somehow this all aligns with Jane seeing MM carried off at 915. It's not just where MM was at 925 and whether he saw HER but how the shutters were since if they were closed the abduction hadn't happened yet.

You can't just wave this off as no one wearing watches and being confused about what exact time was, as Clarrie tries to do.

Matt if he did his check via his front door passed McCanns window, didn't he? Or is he lying about leaving his OWN patio doors open? It just gets ridiculous.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  jinvta on Wed 1 Jan - 20:24

widowan,

Due to the wall and entrance to the car park in front of the apartments, Matt would not have actually passed directly in front of the McCanns front door/windows. He would have needed to backtrack a bit once inside the car park to get to the McCann's apartment.

That being said, I still wonder why initially Matt said that everyone was present at 9 pm when he got up to do his early check after arriving at 8:45 pm. The Paynes all said that they arrived at the Tapas around 8:50/9 pm, and no mention of passing or meeting Matt on the way. Why then was the purpose of this check changed in later statements to be for the purpose of hurrying up the Paynes? There has to be a reason. I agree with you that it makes absolutely no sense to try to hurry along another family as they are trying to get their kids down to sleep. How very rude and unhelpful!

I suppose the most likely scenario is that Matt did not bother to check on his children at all that night, or perhaps only checked once at 9:25 pm when he only went into his own apartment, or perhaps just checked at the window. I also find it unbelievable that Matt would go back to check on Russell before heading back to the Tapas bar. He is a big boy, he can walk back the 1-2 minutes by himself. Did he need Russell to hold his hand? No, of course not. So the most likely scenario here is that Russell was the one who got up to check at 9pm (as Kate stated, not Matt), and he had been gone for quite some time, thus the need for Matt to check on him and make sure everything was okay. Had they both gone at 9:25 it makes no sense for Matt to check on Russell, just check your own kid then head back to the restaurant.

The position of the doors place the bad guy in the apartment before Gerry's 9:05 pm check (for Gerry to find the door open to half way when he left it at 5 degrees) and then again sometime between 9:25 pm and 10pm (for Kate to find the door completely open when Matt had found it open to 50 degrees and did not touch it). That is a very long time to be hanging around the apartment and/or returning to the apartment after whisking away Madeleine at 9:15 pm so he could open the door completely.

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  LJC on Wed 1 Jan - 23:17

widowan wrote:If I am Obrien busy with my ill child, I will open the front door to Matt and say "I'm afraid Evie is ill, I can't go back - tell Jane to bring me something to eat, thanks" - then shut the door. I would not be inviting him in to use my house as a short cut to check on McCanns. But if he DID go in - rather rudely "Can I just duck through here to go down and check on McCanns kids?" then you would think he would say so.

I agree with this statement. Surely the apartments had microwaves? If your daughter is as sick as O'Brien makes out, wouldn't you simply get your OH to fetch your meal from the restaurant (clingfilmed of course) and re-heat it yourself in the apartment? What was the big deal about having to get back to the restaurant to eat it there? It is all so contrived.

He may have invited Matt back through, for quickness, its the kind of thing I can imagine somehow between mates on holiday. I don't know on this one.

But definately, if your kid's sick and vomiting, you would not really feel like coming and going just for the sake of eating. Even if the company back at the restaurant was so scintillating that you could not bare to be away from it, surely if your child is really sick you would sacrifice the pleasure for one little night?

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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  widowan on Thu 2 Jan - 0:27

LJC wrote:
widowan wrote:If I am Obrien busy with my ill child, I will open the front door to Matt and say "I'm afraid Evie is ill, I can't go back - tell Jane to bring me something to eat, thanks" - then shut the door. I would not be inviting him in to use my house as a short cut to check on McCanns. But if he DID go in - rather rudely "Can I just duck through here to go down and check on McCanns kids?" then you would think he would say so.

I agree with this statement.  Surely the apartments had microwaves?  If your daughter is as sick as O'Brien makes out, wouldn't you simply get your OH to fetch your meal from the restaurant (clingfilmed of course) and re-heat it yourself in the apartment?  What was the big deal about having to get back to the restaurant to eat it there?  It is all so contrived.

He may have invited Matt back through, for quickness, its the kind of thing I can imagine somehow between mates on holiday.  I don't know on this one.

But definately, if your kid's sick and vomiting, you would not really feel like coming and going just for the sake of eating.  Even if the company back at the restaurant was so scintillating that you could not bare to be away from it, surely if your child is really sick you would sacrifice the pleasure for one little night?

If Evie was sick enough that jane couldn't see to her herself, then it makes no sense for her to leave to go get Russell - who watched Evie during That little stint? - or, once having Russell in the apt, for them to contrive some way for him to go back to eat AT THE TAPAS, yes I am sure they had a microwave or even if not - come on! - your 3 year old (who had surgery on her foot recently) is that sick and all you can consider is how to dash back and forth?

Carrying a plate for him to microwave or just eat it as it is - or for god's sake order a pizza.

Yet we have all this back and forth, never before but on this one night, everything is different, the checks are different, the kid is sick. the people all who watched their own child prior to this are up and down to see to MADELEINE - apart from kate of course who does know her daughter wasn't well and had cried previously, and for whom she left the door unlocked so she could get out - doesn't want to get up to go and see - AT ALL - at any time -

COME ON

She puts herself at the table whinging and nervous about what madeleine meant about crying earlier; but it's good enough to leave her, without REALLy checking if she was asleep when they left, and having anyone else check her later - sure, its good enough to have matt get up to check. Not when it's Gerry's turn at 9, but on her turn at 930.

I don't know how any of them managed to sit through a meal in that situation but please don't mention leaving kids alone, get over it! We don't want to hear about that, it's boring

Now the kidnapping at 915 is right out, but yet the timeline is open to 9-10

When who was there? Russ, Matt, Jane, Gerry. Jez.

Sy puts the time during when these 4 were in and out; why are we looking at other people's phone records and not at the reconstruction?








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Re: Curtains for the McCanns by Dr. Martin Roberts

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