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Ukraine violence escalates

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Claudia79 on Fri 28 Feb - 16:23

And now you left me in a dilemma. I'm a Portuguese citizen living in Portugal but who was born and lived a part of my life in Germany. How corrupt should I feel?

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Guest on Fri 28 Feb - 16:33

Claudia79 wrote:And now you left me in a dilemma. I'm a Portuguese citizen living in Portugal but who was born and lived a part of my life in Germany. How corrupt should I feel?

well, since both germany and portugal are pretty good on the scale ii'd say you should feel quite righteous.   

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Claudia79 on Fri 28 Feb - 16:52

Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:And now you left me in a dilemma. I'm a Portuguese citizen living in Portugal but who was born and lived a part of my life in Germany. How corrupt should I feel?

well, since both germany and portugal are pretty good on the scale ii'd say you should feel quite righteous.   

Well, they're not exactly on the same level but it seems I should just be grateful I wasn't born a corrupt Ukranian, Russian or Venezuelan.

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Fri 28 Feb - 18:20

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/28/world/europe/ukraine-politics/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/02/world/ukraine-divided/?iid=article_sidebar

read some of the comments on this link, interesting.

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Guest on Fri 28 Feb - 20:21

Claudia79 wrote:
Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:And now you left me in a dilemma. I'm a Portuguese citizen living in Portugal but who was born and lived a part of my life in Germany. How corrupt should I feel?

well, since both germany and portugal are pretty good on the scale ii'd say you should feel quite righteous.   

Well, they're not exactly on the same level but it seems I should just be grateful I wasn't born a corrupt Ukranian, Russian or Venezuelan.

i'm glad you are. the thought of you sent to a gulag because you bunged the waiter €5 to get a a table in a restaurant with a sea view would make me sad. nobody deserves that. it's cruel.

ps. how are you?   



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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Claudia79 on Fri 28 Feb - 22:48

Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:And now you left me in a dilemma. I'm a Portuguese citizen living in Portugal but who was born and lived a part of my life in Germany. How corrupt should I feel?

well, since both germany and portugal are pretty good on the scale ii'd say you should feel quite righteous.   

Well, they're not exactly on the same level but it seems I should just be grateful I wasn't born a corrupt Ukranian, Russian or Venezuelan.

i'm glad you are. the thought of you sent to a gulag because you bunged the waiter €5 to get a a table in a restaurant with a sea view would make me sad. nobody deserves that. it's cruel.

ps. how are you?   



Yeah, it's great to belong to the good part of the world where life is fair and wonderful.
I'm fine, thank you. And you?

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Guest on Sat 1 Mar - 6:05

Claudia79 wrote:
Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:And now you left me in a dilemma. I'm a Portuguese citizen living in Portugal but who was born and lived a part of my life in Germany. How corrupt should I feel?

well, since both germany and portugal are pretty good on the scale ii'd say you should feel quite righteous.   

Well, they're not exactly on the same level but it seems I should just be grateful I wasn't born a corrupt Ukranian, Russian or Venezuelan.

i'm glad you are. the thought of you sent to a gulag because you bunged the waiter €5 to get a a table in a restaurant with a sea view would make me sad. nobody deserves that. it's cruel.

ps. how are you?   



Yeah, it's great to belong to the good part of the world where life is fair and wonderful.
I'm fine, thank you. And you?

isn't it just. hunky dory baby, hunky dory.   

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Claudia79 on Sat 1 Mar - 11:25

Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:And now you left me in a dilemma. I'm a Portuguese citizen living in Portugal but who was born and lived a part of my life in Germany. How corrupt should I feel?

well, since both germany and portugal are pretty good on the scale ii'd say you should feel quite righteous.   

Well, they're not exactly on the same level but it seems I should just be grateful I wasn't born a corrupt Ukranian, Russian or Venezuelan.

i'm glad you are. the thought of you sent to a gulag because you bunged the waiter €5 to get a a table in a restaurant with a sea view would make me sad. nobody deserves that. it's cruel.

ps. how are you?   



Yeah, it's great to belong to the good part of the world where life is fair and wonderful.
I'm fine, thank you. And you?

isn't it just. hunky dory baby, hunky dory.   

I'm glad.

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Sat 1 Mar - 11:26

http://news.sky.com/story/1219302/ukraine-says-russia-has-sent-in-6000-troops

It is getting very serious now. Russia has Jets on standby, the existing PM of Ukraine says he has not resigned and will carry on as President. The new Ukrainian Government is bringing the Election date forward to 30th March . There is a rumour that Russian Troops are in every Ukraine Airport, Obama is virtually powerless and Putin knows it. Where is the United nations in all this?????

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Guest on Sat 1 Mar - 11:33

Claudia79 wrote:
Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:

Well, they're not exactly on the same level but it seems I should just be grateful I wasn't born a corrupt Ukranian, Russian or Venezuelan.

i'm glad you are. the thought of you sent to a gulag because you bunged the waiter €5 to get a a table in a restaurant with a sea view would make me sad. nobody deserves that. it's cruel.

ps. how are you?   



Yeah, it's great to belong to the good part of the world where life is fair and wonderful.
I'm fine, thank you. And you?

isn't it just. hunky dory baby, hunky dory.   

I'm glad.

i'm glad your glad and i'm glad for you too.   

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Guest on Sat 1 Mar - 11:34

Panda wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1219302/ukraine-says-russia-has-sent-in-6000-troops

It is getting very serious now. Russia has Jets on standby, the existing PM of Ukraine says he has not resigned and will carry on as President. The new Ukrainian Government is bringing the Election date forward to 30th March . There is a rumour that Russian Troops are in every Ukraine Airport, Obama is virtually powerless and Putin knows it. Where is the United nations in all this?????

as equally powerless as obama.   

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Sat 1 Mar - 12:01

Marky wrote:
Panda wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1219302/ukraine-says-russia-has-sent-in-6000-troops

It is getting very serious now. Russia has Jets on standby, the existing PM of Ukraine says he has not resigned and will carry on as President. The new Ukrainian Government is bringing the Election date forward to 30th March . There is a rumour that Russian Troops are in every Ukraine Airport, Obama is virtually powerless and Putin knows it. Where is the United nations in all this?????

as equally powerless as obama.   

It looks as if there will be another Civil War marky and Ukraine will be divided. It's obvious Crimea will want the support of Russia and it would mean Kiev can join the EU and get financial support from them.


Yes, United Nations is a misnomer and they have done absolutely nothing to stop this madness in the World.

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Russian reaction

Post  katertaif on Sat 1 Mar - 12:06

Obama has again warned Russia not to make the situation worse. Apart from that statement having many interpretations, Putin will not take any notice. He has already wrong footed The US and the EU with the speed of Russian reaction in the Crimea. His claim that is protecting ethnic Russians may be spurious but he will use that as the springboard. It is difficult to see what the US can do anyway. McCain ruled out military action last night anything else would take so long as to be useless. By the time any sanctions could take any effect. Russia will have done whatever it is they plan on doing anyway.

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Sat 1 Mar - 12:21

Hi katertaif

The U.S. has enough to worry about with the damage caused by Floods and now snow, plus , the American people would protest if the Government decided to send troops to Kiev.    This is the latest minute by minute account.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/01/crimea-crisis-deepens-as-russia-and-ukraine-ready-forces-live-updates


This is one of the comments, quite insightful I think .



TheSailor99

01 March 2014 9:36am


Recommend

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I think we have to recognise that the Crimea will have to revert to Russia as part of the deal for the rest of the Ukraine to join the EU. It is a bitter pill for Putin to accept the loss of the Ukraine but to lose the Russian major naval port in the Black Sea as well would be too much to bear.

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Ukraine violence

Post  katertaif on Sat 1 Mar - 13:01

Hi Panda

I think you are right again. The US has more than enough to worry about. From the speed of Russian reaction, I have a feeling they have had these contingency plans for some time. Putin has been at pains to project his image as a rugged man of action. Now he'll have to live up to it or become a laughing stock. His planners will have taken the US economic position into account I have no doubt. Ukraine is a buffer between Russia and the West. He'll take whatever action he needs to tin order to keep it that way..

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  malena stool on Sat 1 Mar - 13:14

Putin is protecting what he sees as his assets in the Crimea, this is no more than we here in the UK would do, (if we had enough armed forces and materiel support to be capable of carrying out such an action) or the US would do if one of their assets/bases was put under threat.

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This article shows a Map of Ukraine

Post  Panda on Sat 1 Mar - 13:25

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/02/world/ukraine-divided/?hpt=hp_t2

Some good comments there


Last edited by Panda on Sat 1 Mar - 13:34; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Sat 1 Mar - 13:30

malena stool wrote:Putin is protecting what he sees as his assets in the Crimea, this is no more than we here in the UK would do, (if we had enough armed forces and materiel support to be capable of carrying out such an action) or the US would do if one of their assets/bases was put under threat.

malena, he crossed the line by giving Political Asylum to the deposed President knowing he had stolen Billions from the Government coffers. It was all arranged, no one knew a thing about it and the tension is heightened by all the Soldiers, Airports protected etc, and what did the acting President do? Arranged an early Election for the end of March, no retaliation , just Democracy at work.

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  malena stool on Sat 1 Mar - 13:42

Panda wrote:
malena stool wrote:Putin is protecting what he sees as his assets in the Crimea, this is no more than we here in the UK would do, (if we had enough armed forces and materiel support to be capable of carrying out such an action) or the US would do if one of their assets/bases was put under threat.

malena, he crossed the line by giving Political Asylum to the deposed President knowing he had stolen Billions from the Government coffers. It was all arranged, no one knew a thing about it and the tension is heightened by all the Soldiers, Airports protected etc, and what did the acting President do? Arranged an early Election for the end of March, no retaliation , just Democracy at work.

I know Panda, buut we as a nation have given protection to despots from across the world and for all we mere plebs know it still goes on. The US is just as bad, they gave shelter to and eventually naturalised, post WW2 to the very people who designed and built pilotless V1s and V2 rockets that killed thousands of men women and children here in the UK and used forced slave labour to build them..

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Guest on Sat 1 Mar - 14:18

seems like putin is cranking up the stakes.  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26400035


Last edited by Marky on Sat 1 Mar - 15:08; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Sat 1 Mar - 14:26

We are living in sad dangerous times,two convicted in the U.K. of helping Syrian rebels....how many more will MI5 find????  
 
Now, overnight we have a divided Ukraine planned and executed probably within days.  Let's hope common sense prevails and if the Ukrainian vote at the end of this month is to seperate and join the EU it should be honoured. Until then, not one shot fired.

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Sat 1 Mar - 15:54

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26400597


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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Sun 2 Mar - 8:01

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26403996


Apparently William Hague is to visit Ukraine.....fat  lot of good that will do.!!!  I hope he doesn't promise British troops will be available. Obama had a 90 minute telephone conversation with Putin and warned him that he was breaking International Law. Putin ignores all this and has even encroached into Ukraine. Why hasn't the United Nations or G8 intervened before the situation gets worse???

The acting President of Ukraine says his Country is preparing for War and has warned Putin to pull back.It comes after Russian Parliament approved action taken by Putin.

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  katertaif on Sun 2 Mar - 10:48

Good morning Panda

As you say, Hague visiting Kiev is nothing more than a PR exercise and one that could be very dangerous, in that it may persuade the new authorities in Ukraine that we will help them.. I don't think even Willie is silly enough to promise troops, but probably money.It does look as if there will be a great deal more civil upheaval if not outright civil war . The situation not being helped by the minority Muslim population, and the rabble rousing from Chechnya, urging a Jihad for a caliphate.

Ukraine's authorities have threatened to restart their nuclear programme but I don't think Putin would stand for that whatever his present intentions are.

Whatever those intentions, Obama telling Putin to pack it in will only harden his mood. perhaps it would be better to offer to work with Russia to find a peaceful solution rather than recalling of Ambassadors. The Ukraine is desperate for money which is the root of the present crisis. It might be worth while to give them the money with no strings attached rather than watch it all descend into a bloody conflict which may last years.

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Sun 2 Mar - 14:29

Afternoon katerfait, Only just saw your post , I must have deleted it before reading it because there were a lot of e-mails to be deleted.

You may not know but earlier today, the Ukrainian Border Control stopped a few Russian Speaking Rumainians and they had knives and a couple of old guns that they were taking to the Russian speaking allies in Crimea.

This is where the danger lies because you have Russians speaking in both parts of Rumania , how are they going to seperate the Country and what about the Russian ships in the Baltic, the Airports that Russians use. ?

The situation has worsened and the Rumainians are saying Russia is infiltrating more troops into Rumania as if getting ready for War. The head of NATO has called for calm and told Russia they must recognise International Law , but Putin is not listening now he has the backing of his Government.

Even if they reach a settlement and have a border of some sort, what about the Russian speakers in Rumania and the ones in Crimea???

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

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