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Ukraine violence escalates

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Sun 2 Mar - 18:25

Latest News, Russia has a convoy of troops who have parked their Lorries and are standing at the gates into Rumainia, young soldiers have massed on the other side of the gate to defend their Country, young men volunteering and a Rumainian Priest is defiantly standing at the gates , facing the Russians.

Our Foreign Secretary , William Hague is boycotting the G8 meeting , very intelligent , if a vote is required .

The acting President in Roumania has said his Country is prepared for War, I hope Europe supplies the Country with plenty of Guns and ammunition, the Country is broke so I doubt it would be well equipped for War, it's like David and Goliath.


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G7 condemns Russia

Post  Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 7:12

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26412914

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 7:35

http://news.sky.com/story/1219877/ukraine-defection-reflects-escalating-rift


http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine-russia-military/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

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Threats of consequences

Post  katertaif on Mon 3 Mar - 9:19

I have often noticed, that what you can sometimes do with reason, and persuasion you can rarely (if ever) achieve the same objective with threats and intimidation. All that usually does is put people's backs up. All this talk of Russia paying the price, and threats of sanctions may just harden Putin's attitude and possibly make him go further than he originally intended. besides that we stand to lose a lot more Than Obama and the US if Putin decides to turn the taps off. China siding with him will not help any tit for tat economic sanctions.

This withdrawal from the G8 is as you say not our governments most intelligent decision but then apart from their highly imaginative expenses claims, they re not noted for intelligence.

I fear these threats may do more harm than good.

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Latest News on Ukraine

Post  Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 10:15

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26414600


Morning Katertaif, Putin is ruthless and has the advantage of a Chief Naval officer in Ukraine defecting, Russian speakers in Ukraine fighting with non Russian Speakers and he knows the Ukraine is no match for Russian might. The rest of the World seems powerless and who will come to the aid of Ukraine if the Russians do invade and try to take over the Country.?

Remember, it was Russia that helped the Prime Minister escape and take a lot of possessions, he must have been in regular contact with Putin and have planned his escape.Putin will argue that the Present Ukranian Government is unlawful.

Whichever way you look at it , it is a mess, even if they try to divide  Ukraine, what happens to the  Russian speakers in Crimea and the Ukraine?

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 10:24

Just announced......Russia and China in agreement over UKRAINE


http://news.sky.com/story/1219922/russia-and-china-in-agreement-over-ukraine


http://news.sky.com/story/1220031/markets-tumble-as-ukraine-tension-escalates

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 10:56

http://news.sky.com/story/1220031/markets-tumble-as-ukraine-tension-escalates

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Ukraine a mess

Post  katertaif on Mon 3 Mar - 10:59

Morning Panda

I could not agree with you more, that whichever way you look at it, it is a mess. I have no torch for Putin at all but I still think that threats of sanctions etc. will do more harm than good. The advent of China agreeing with him will be a great boost for him.

I thought Obama was just blowing off hot air, since while short of a nuclear confrontation they are powerless, and economic sanctions would hurt us a damned sight more than the US. Nor could we expect them to help us. Obama has made it plain what he thinks of us anyway. Putin could turn the pipeline off to us if it came down to it whereas that wouldn't worry Obama at all.

Now that China has entered the equation, it is different. just as there is a great disparity with our China trade, so there is with China and the USA. I think it's time for our politicians in the west, as well as the Ukrainians and Russians to sit back and think about what they are doing. before any more blood is spilled.


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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 15:54

Hi katertaif, I agree , the West is powerless to intervene, China and Russia have always been close politically in that they Rule their Countries with an iron fist and no one has the right to criticise. Stocks are tumbling as are currencies, Russian currency down 10%, that will shake up Russia because despite their size , they only have Gas and Oil to sell supplied to Europe .The Russians and Chinese have concentrated on military might and not getting involved in the rest of the World , if the EU decided to ban imports of Oil and Gas until Russia moved out of Ukraine until a new Government was formed and the Russian speakers in the Ukraine free to live in Crimea It would be impossible at the moment to seperate Crimea from the Ukraine because you have Russian speakers in Ukraine and Crimea, a couple of sma areas as well.. What a mess, how it all works out is anyone's guess.



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Russia gives Ukraine a deadline

Post  Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 16:09

http://news.sky.com/


The interim Government in Kiev have brought forward the vote for new President to 30th March....why can't Russia wait that long?

This was planned before the departing PM, who embezzled billions btw, , I hope the UN steps in and imposes harsh sanctions on Russia. Also, the UN deploys troops , it is disgraceful what Russia is doing.Leave America and Britain out of providing soldiers, they have done enough over the years, let Europe provide Troops .


Last edited by Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 16:19; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Guest on Mon 3 Mar - 16:12

Panda wrote:Hi katertaif, I agree , the West is powerless to intervene, China and Russia have always been close politically in that they Rule their Countries with an iron fist and no one has the right to criticise. Stocks are tumbling as are currencies, Russian currency down 10%, that will shake up Russia because despite their size , they only have Gas and Oil  to sell supplied to Europe .The Russians and Chinese have concentrated on military might and not getting involved in the rest of the World , if the EU decided to ban imports of Oil and Gas until Russia moved out of Ukraine until a new Government was formed and the Russian speakers in the Ukraine free to live in Crimea It would be impossible at the moment to seperate Crimea from the Ukraine because you have Russian speakers in Ukraine and Crimea, a couple of sma areas as well.. What a mess, how it all works out is anyone's guess.

economic sanctions imposed on russia could backfire badly on europe. putin could respond by simply shutting off the gas supply. see who gets cold feet first.

  

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 16:22

Marky wrote:
Panda wrote:Hi katertaif, I agree , the West is powerless to intervene, China and Russia have always been close politically in that they Rule their Countries with an iron fist and no one has the right to criticise. Stocks are tumbling as are currencies, Russian currency down 10%, that will shake up Russia because despite their size , they only have Gas and Oil  to sell supplied to Europe .The Russians and Chinese have concentrated on military might and not getting involved in the rest of the World , if the EU decided to ban imports of Oil and Gas until Russia moved out of Ukraine until a new Government was formed and the Russian speakers in the Ukraine free to live in Crimea It would be impossible at the moment to seperate Crimea from the Ukraine because you have Russian speakers in Ukraine and Crimea, a couple of sma areas as well.. What a mess, how it all works out is anyone's guess.

economic sanctions imposed on russia could backfire badly on europe. putin could respond by simply shutting off the gas supply. see who gets cold feet first.

  

Marky, it's gone too far for that 3am tomorrow!!!!! This has been planned for  months which is why Putin helped the Prime Minister escape . Where we go from here is anyone's guess. It all started when the Ukraine wanted to join the EU.

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Hague says constant fear of escalation

Post  Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 17:37

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26415789

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Ukraine no match for Russian Military and Armoury

Post  Panda on Mon 3 Mar - 17:49

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26421703

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Guest on Mon 3 Mar - 19:57

Panda wrote:
Marky wrote:
Panda wrote:Hi katertaif, I agree , the West is powerless to intervene, China and Russia have always been close politically in that they Rule their Countries with an iron fist and no one has the right to criticise. Stocks are tumbling as are currencies, Russian currency down 10%, that will shake up Russia because despite their size , they only have Gas and Oil  to sell supplied to Europe .The Russians and Chinese have concentrated on military might and not getting involved in the rest of the World , if the EU decided to ban imports of Oil and Gas until Russia moved out of Ukraine until a new Government was formed and the Russian speakers in the Ukraine free to live in Crimea It would be impossible at the moment to seperate Crimea from the Ukraine because you have Russian speakers in Ukraine and Crimea, a couple of sma areas as well.. What a mess, how it all works out is anyone's guess.

economic sanctions imposed on russia could backfire badly on europe. putin could respond by simply shutting off the gas supply. see who gets cold feet first.

  

Marky, it's gone too far for that 3am tomorrow!!!!! This has been planned for  months which is why Putin helped the Prime Minister escape . Where we go from here is anyone's guess. It all started when the Ukraine wanted to join the EU.

putin holds all the cards. obama is weak. roosevelt said speak softly and carry a big stick. obama speaks loudly and carries a matchstick. as far as cameron is concerned parliament hamstrung him over syria so he can wail all he likes, who's listening. hollande is weak, italy? merkel is dependent on russian gas. let this one play out, there's sod all the west can do. diplomacy against force. no contest.

  


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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Tue 4 Mar - 4:41

I agree marky , China has already said no Leader should be deposed undemocratically...cough cough.

Russia has the Veto in the Security Council , Europe is very quiet on the matter , it's a David and Goliath scenario .

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Boycotting games

Post  katertaif on Tue 4 Mar - 9:58

Good morning Marky

Putin has apparently ordered over 150,000 troops back to their bases. Whether that will lessen the tension is of course another story. It would still only take one incident since both sides are digging in over Crimea.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Paralympic games. I recall this sort of thing happened during the cold war a lot, and once athletes were specifically asked by their governments to boycott the games, but most chose to go anyway.

I can't see any economic sanctions biting deeply enough quickly enough to influence Putin's plans whatever they are and I'm sure he knows in his own mind exactly what he intends to do. Obama is just spouting hot air, and certainly would not come to Europe's aid, and especially not ours. He has made it quite clear what his opinion of us is and on a personal level I have never trusted him at all.

As for a diplomatic solution, our politicians certainly have no idea, I wouldn't trust most of them to run a winkle stall in Whitby

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Tue 4 Mar - 10:08

Several Ukrainians carrying their Flag, singing their National Anthem attempted to enter Sevastopol Airport , but the Russian Soldiers are firing warning shots and demanded they move back . There are Cameras and Press reporting so my guess is the Soldiers would not want to be seen to fire on the Ukrainians. Putin has insisted the troops are there protecting the interests of the Elected President ....if you believe that , you'll believe anything!!

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Ukrainian violence

Post  katertaif on Tue 4 Mar - 11:26

Good morning Panda

As far as believing Putin goes, if he said night was dark and day was light, I wouldn't believe him. The majority of troops on both sides have no wish to fight each other at the very least they share a common language. It's the hotheads on both sides who are most likely to trigger anything off. Not helped by the lack of intelligence on the part of our politicians who seem incapable of realising that threats will only harden attitudes. Not that their threats carry any actual substance.

I'm sure of one thing. Putin has a game plan, and an objective in mind.

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Tue 4 Mar - 12:45

katertaif wrote:Good morning Panda

As far as believing Putin goes, if he said night was dark and day was light, I wouldn't believe him. The majority of troops on both sides have no wish to fight each other at the very least they share a common language. It's the hotheads on both sides who are most likely to trigger anything off. Not helped by the lack of intelligence on the part of our politicians who seem incapable of realising that  threats will only harden attitudes. Not that their threats carry any actual substance.

I'm sure of one thing. Putin has a game plan, and an objective in mind.

Afternoon ...just...katertaif, when you read in that article that so many people were starved to death by the Russian Government  you realise how brutal some regimes still are . The problem is Russian speaking People in both Ukraine and Crimea which is very pro Russia.

This is my timeline of events as I see it.: The Ukrainian President starts negotiation with the EU  to become Members .
                                                       Russia doesn't like this one bit and threatens to withhold the loan to the Ukraine, the Ukraine President
caves in and cancels the Membership request.
When the population in Kiev hears of this they are furious  even though the Russian speakers do not want this either, preferirng to retain their ties with Russia . The demonstrations escalate causing damage and lives as the Government authorised troops to do what was necessary to stop the riots.
Eventually , the rebels won , the President did a runner to Russia, preplanned ,taking as much priceless  keepsakes as he could. It was later found out that he had embezzled 7 billion . He was discovered in a hotel in Moscow under the protection of Putin, the Russians claim to have a letter from the President asking for asylum from Russia.A temporary Parliament was assembled in Ukraine , stony broke , but financial assistance was promised by the IMFand some other Countries . Putin  immediately ordered Guards at Airports, Docks etc on the pretext they were safeguarding their Ships and Planes. even though the acting President of Ukraine said he would bring the Election  for Ukraine forward to March.  Now it is a standoff and Putin knows he will win, not just by might, but because Europe has cheap energy and in Britain the Oligarchs are spending on Football teams, expensive houses etc. and Putin knows no Country will go to the aid of Ukraine , the US, nor Britain  can't afford another War. The G 8, UN etc won't go against Russia.

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Putin says no immediate need to invade Eastern Ukraine

Post  Panda on Tue 4 Mar - 16:19

Putin Says No Immediate Need to Invade Eastern Ukraine, Leaves Threat Dangling
By Ilya Arkhipov and Indira A.R. Lakshmanan  Mar 4, 2014 2:35 PM GMT  179 Comments  Email  Print
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Photographer: Mikhail Klimentyev/RIA-Novosti/Presidential Press Service via AP Photo
Russian President Vladimir Putin, center, and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, left, and... Read More
Vladimir Putin said he sees no immediate need to invade eastern Ukraine as the Obama administration prepares $1 billion in loan guarantees for the cash-strapped nation and threatens sanctions against Russia.

In his first public remarks since Russian forces took control of the Crimean peninsula in southern Ukraine, President Putin still reserved the right to use force to protect ethnic Russians. There’s “no such necessity” to do so at present, he said. Secretary of State John Kerry arrived in Kiev to present a financial aid package to the interim government, which needs as much as $15 billion in the coming years to stay afloat.

“Clearly Putin would like to lower some of the rhetoric,” Paul Denoon, who oversees $29 billion of emerging-market debt at New York-based AllianceBernstein Holding LP, said today by phone. “But I don’t think he’s signaled a new direction in his intentions. We still think there’s a risk of escalation.”

Related:

Russia Stays in Ukraine as Putin Invokes Ousted President
Putin Says No Immediate Need to Invade Eastern Ukraine
Kerry’s Kiev Visit Puts Him on Diplomatic Front Lines
Goldman Sees Russia Taming Ruble Losses After Plunge
Russia is tussling with the West for influence over Ukraine, which claims its former Soviet master deployed troops to block army bases and airports in Crimea after protests in Kiev deposed former president Viktor Yanukovych on Feb. 22. The U.S. and Europe are racing to seal billions of dollars of aid to help the new administration in Kiev avoid bankruptcy.


Photographer: Mikhail Klimentyev/AFP via Getty Images
Russia's President Vladimir Putin, left, watches military exercises at the Kirillovsky... Read More
Russia is also staking its own claim, saying Ukraine owes state-controlled energy giant OAO Gazprom (GAZP) $2 billion.

Kerry Visit

Russia’s Micex stock index, which yesterday plunged 11 percent, reversed some of those losses and rose 5.2 percent today. The ruble strengthened 1.1 percent against the dollar-euro based used by the central bank, which unexpectedly raised its benchmark interest rate by 150 basis points to 7 percent yesterday.

Kerry is visiting Kiev to underscore U.S. support for the new Ukrainian government led by Premier Arseniy Yatsenyuk and provide assistance to the fledgling administration.

A Snapshot of Ukraine's Past and Future

U.S. officials traveling with him said sanctions such as travel and asset bans on Russian individuals and institutions are likely within days if Russia doesn’t de-escalate its actions in Ukraine and return its forces to barracks. They spoke on condition they not be named because the penalties aren’t finalized.

An International Monetary Fund delegation is also due in the Ukrainian capital today. Ukraine needs $15 billion in the next 2 1/2 years to stay afloat, Finance Minister Oleksandr Shlapak said March 1. Russia has halted an aid package of that size sealed with Yanukovych in December.

Extremist Coup

Putin claims extremists orchestrated a coup to dislodge Yanukovych and says Russian speakers in Ukraine’s east and south need protection. Ukraine’s acting President Oleksandr Turchynov has warned that a military invasion would be an act of war, saying Russians aren’t at risk.

Putin said troops stationed in Crimea, where Russia keeps its Black Sea fleet, have only been securing their bases. Russia has 16,000 troops in the Crimea region, while it’s permitted to have as many as 25,000, Vitaly Churkin, Russia’s ambassador to the United Nations, said yesterday.
Putin Says No Immediate Need to Invade Eastern Ukraine, Leaves Threat Dangling
By Ilya Arkhipov and Indira A.R. Lakshmanan Mar 4, 2014 2:35 PM GMT 179 Comments Email Print
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Twitter
Google+
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Save

Photographer: Mikhail Klimentyev/RIA-Novosti/Presidential Press Service via AP Photo
Russian President Vladimir Putin, center, and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, left, and... Read More
Vladimir Putin said he sees no immediate need to invade eastern Ukraine as the Obama administration prepares $1 billion in loan guarantees for the cash-strapped nation and threatens sanctions against Russia.

In his first public remarks since Russian forces took control of the Crimean peninsula in southern Ukraine, President Putin still reserved the right to use force to protect ethnic Russians. There’s “no such necessity” to do so at present, he said. Secretary of State John Kerry arrived in Kiev to present a financial aid package to the interim government, which needs as much as $15 billion in the coming years to stay afloat.

“Clearly Putin would like to lower some of the rhetoric,” Paul Denoon, who oversees $29 billion of emerging-market debt at New York-based AllianceBernstein Holding LP, said today by phone. “But I don’t think he’s signaled a new direction in his intentions. We still think there’s a risk of escalation.”

Related:

Russia Stays in Ukraine as Putin Invokes Ousted President
Putin Says No Immediate Need to Invade Eastern Ukraine
Kerry’s Kiev Visit Puts Him on Diplomatic Front Lines
Goldman Sees Russia Taming Ruble Losses After Plunge
Russia is tussling with the West for influence over Ukraine, which claims its former Soviet master deployed troops to block army bases and airports in Crimea after protests in Kiev deposed former president Viktor Yanukovych on Feb. 22. The U.S. and Europe are racing to seal billions of dollars of aid to help the new administration in Kiev avoid bankruptcy.


Photographer: Mikhail Klimentyev/AFP via Getty Images
Russia's President Vladimir Putin, left, watches military exercises at the Kirillovsky... Read More
Russia is also staking its own claim, saying Ukraine owes state-controlled energy giant OAO Gazprom (GAZP) $2 billion.

Kerry Visit

Russia’s Micex stock index, which yesterday plunged 11 percent, reversed some of those losses and rose 5.2 percent today. The ruble strengthened 1.1 percent against the dollar-euro based used by the central bank, which unexpectedly raised its benchmark interest rate by 150 basis points to 7 percent yesterday.

Kerry is visiting Kiev to underscore U.S. support for the new Ukrainian government led by Premier Arseniy Yatsenyuk and provide assistance to the fledgling administration.

A Snapshot of Ukraine's Past and Future

U.S. officials traveling with him said sanctions such as travel and asset bans on Russian individuals and institutions are likely within days if Russia doesn’t de-escalate its actions in Ukraine and return its forces to barracks. They spoke on condition they not be named because the penalties aren’t finalized.

An International Monetary Fund delegation is also due in the Ukrainian capital today. Ukraine needs $15 billion in the next 2 1/2 years to stay afloat, Finance Minister Oleksandr Shlapak said March 1. Russia has halted an aid package of that size sealed with Yanukovych in December.

Extremist Coup

Putin claims extremists orchestrated a coup to dislodge Yanukovych and says Russian speakers in Ukraine’s east and south need protection. Ukraine’s acting President Oleksandr Turchynov has warned that a military invasion would be an act of war, saying Russians aren’t at risk.

Putin said troops stationed in Crimea, where Russia keeps its Black Sea fleet, have only been securing their bases. Russia has 16,000 troops in the Crimea region, while it’s permitted to have as many as 25,000, Vitaly Churkin, Russia’s ambassador to the United Nations, said yesterday.

“The use of the military is an extreme case,” Putin told reporters at his residence near Moscow today. “But we have a direct request from a legitimate president, Yanukovych, on military aid to protect Ukrainian citizens.”

Putin’s comments signal the crisis, the worst between Russia and the West since the Cold War ended, won’t immediately escalate. The standoff roiled markets as Russia held military exercises on Ukraine’s eastern border. The drills, which included fighter jets and tanks, ended today.

Ukraine’s hryvnia gained 6.7 percent to 9.1 per dollar, while the yield on the government’s dollar debt due 2023 fell 82 basis points to 9.738 percent, data compiled by Bloomberg show.

To contact the reporters on this story: Ilya Arkhipov in Moscow at iarkhipov@bloomberg.net; Indira A.R. Lakshmanan in Washington at ilakshmanan@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Balazs Penz at bpenz@bloomberg.net

Putin’s comments signal the crisis, the worst between Russia and the West since the Cold War ended, won’t immediately escalate. The standoff roiled markets as Russia held military exercises on Ukraine’s eastern border. The drills, which included fighter jets and tanks, ended today.

Ukraine’s hryvnia gained 6.7 percent to 9.1 per dollar, while the yield on the government’s dollar debt due 2023 fell 82 basis points to 9.738 percent, data compiled by Bloomberg show.

To contact the reporters on this story: Ilya Arkhipov in Moscow at iarkhipov@bloomberg.net; Indira A.R. Lakshmanan in Washington at ilakshmanan@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Balazs Penz at bpenz@bloomberg.net

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  malena stool on Tue 4 Mar - 17:03

Is he simply doing a little bit of old fashioned cold war muscle flexing while at the same time preparing every nation that is dependent on Russian gas for a potential price hike and remind them just how much they need Russian fuel?


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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Panda on Tue 4 Mar - 17:13

malena stool wrote:Is he simply doing a little bit of old fashioned cold war muscle flexing while at the same time preparing every nation that is dependent on Russian gas for a potential price hike and remind them just how much they need Russian fuel?


Probably malena, Russian stocks and ROE for the rouble have gone down which is why his tone has softened and he called a Press Conference.Let's not forget though that Russia was helping the Ukraine President escape to Russia because i suspect Putin would like to see him back in power so he can manipulate him again. This Russian guy held up a sheet of paper saying that was the letter received from the Ukrainian President requesting sanctuary.

IF Putin and the Ukraine agree that Russia can have Crimea back , what happens to the non-Russian speakers there and the Russian speakers in Ukraine, very tricky .

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  Guest on Tue 4 Mar - 20:29

malena stool wrote:Is he simply doing a little bit of old fashioned cold war muscle flexing while at the same time preparing every nation that is dependent on Russian gas for a potential price hike and remind them just how much they need Russian fuel?


you betcha. obama doesn't give a stuff about europe and cares even less about the uk. the us imports most of its oil from canada and is fracking it's way towards gas independence. obama and kerry are just paying lip service to world affairs and putin knows this. they won't do anything and most european countries are worried about sanctions less putin turns off the flow. let them get on with it.

 

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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

Post  malena stool on Tue 4 Mar - 20:49

Exactly Marky,
It's just a shame that Mrs Thatcher isn't here to see the damage her vendetta/feud with Scargill and the miners has inflicted on our country. From being self supporting in both coal and gas, we now have to buy in at top price a product we once exported.


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Re: Ukraine violence escalates

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