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"Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

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"Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  frencheuropean on Thu 1 May - 9:16

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html


Schadenfraud, 30 April 2014
 
Schadenfraud



EXCLUSIVE to mccannfiles.com

By Dr Martin Roberts
30 April 2014


SCHADENFRAUD

According to Tracey Kandohla (Daily Mirror, 25 April), former GP Kate has said: "There is nothing to suggest Madeleine is not alive."

She has also said: "Madeleine is still alive until someone proves otherwise."

As has been pointed out on several previous occasions, it is not actually necessary to prove Madeleine is dead (or 'not still alive') by revealing her corpse. It can be done indirectly by proving that she was not abducted (see: 'There's nothing to say she's not out there alive' – McCannfiles, 27.6.09). Given that condition, there can be only one answer to Gerry McCann's outburst, "Where is the child?" Telekinesis is not, I'm afraid, an option in this case.

Prior to the first of DCI Andy Redwood's 'revelation moments' it could be (and indeed was) established that no abductor could possibly have exited the McCanns' apartment at a time coincident with Jane Tanner's so-called sighting (see: 'No Way Out' and 'No Way Out At All' – McCannfiles, 8.7.13 and 13.7.13). Despite (or perhaps because of) the obviously contrived emergence of an innocent parent portering their own daughter around the streets of Praia da Luz at the time, the McCanns remain of the view that this is not whom Jane Tanner saw on the night of May 3rd, raising the possibility of there having been no end of transient child bearers in the vicinity that night, like a Pierce Brosnan scene from the re-make of The Thomas Crown Affair.

Recent personal experience has confirmed two things in particular: that the introduction of an unverifiable third-party into the account of a crime is a gambit as old as Methuselah and, despite jurors being cautioned against speculation, phrases such as 'could have', 'might have' etc. are as irresistible as bananas are to monkeys. (Their use in deliberation - the phrases not the bananas - should be banned). Nevertheless, in the context of the McCanns' account of Madeleine's 'abduction' they are rife, which would leave any prosecuting counsel the task of discounting limitless flights of imagination before they could address the most probable cause or sequence of events.

So now how do we prove Madeleine was not abducted? Perhaps by focussing on what a child abduction is, or isn't.

Both parents, Kate McCann especially, have expressed remorse at not having been present 'at that minute', when 'it' happened. Needless to say, had they been in attendance at the time then 'it' should not have happened at all. Taking things at face value, it is perfectly obvious that the McCanns would not have stood back while their daughter was abducted by a stranger. No parent would do so (unless faced with Sophie's Choice perhaps). Hence, if the McCanns were seen to have been tacit accomplices to the act of Madeleine's removal from apartment 5A the Ocean Club, they will not have been complicit in abduction, but something else entirely. Either way they would have harboured some fore-knowledge of the event.

And that's the rub. They did exhibit foreknowledge, which means (a) the event in question was not abduction as commonly understood and (b) they knew what it was, just as well as they knew what it wasn't. In the words of an anonymous lawyer, repeated for emphasis by Kate McCann in her book 'madeleine', "One coincidence, two coincidences - maybe they're still coincidences. Any more than that and it stops being coincidence."

Coincidentally Kate McCann experienced a sudden aversion to own her camera, following her last photograph of daughter Madeleine, eight hours before she was found to be missing. Coincidentally, Gerry McCann's receipt of regular text messages, and his predictable recourse to voicemail thereafter (a daily routine associated with the aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance), was a behaviour he exhibited on May 2nd – over twenty four hours before Madeleine was found to be missing. Coincidentally, a McCann family member photographed a subject of unique relevance to the search for their missing daughter before she was discovered missing. That's three coincidences where, according to no less an authority than Kate McCann herself, the occurrence of more than two means none of them can be considered chance events (as there's no means of identifying the one that might be).

If Madeleine McCann was not abducted then she is dead. She was not abducted. She is therefore dead, and has been for seven years, since before the establishment of 'Madeleine's Fund' by her parents, who did not ask for money at first but very quickly set up a way of dealing with it that traded on the false premise of the child's unexplained disappearance, and continues to do so."


I suppose that the title "Schadenfraud" is a play on the German word Schadenfreude ( wiki:Schadenfreude (/ˈʃɑːdənfrɔɪdə/; German: [ˈʃaːdənˌfʁɔʏdə] ( listen)) is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1] This word is a loanword from German. The literal English translation is 'Harm-Joy'. ) .


Last edited by frencheuropean on Thu 1 May - 9:27; edited 1 time in total

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  Panda on Thu 1 May - 9:27

Thanks frencheuropean

Something has to break soon, now we know the 7 years is not until 2.8.2015 this speculation can't go on for another year ......can it???  

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  matthew on Thu 1 May - 11:59

A prosecution POV

"As has been pointed out on several previous occasions, it is not actually necessary to prove Madeleine is dead (or 'not still alive') by revealing her corpse. It can be done indirectly by proving that she was not abducted


If Madeleine McCann was not abducted then she is dead. She was not abducted. She is therefore dead, and has been for seven years, since before the establishment of 'Madeleine's Fund' by her parents, who did not ask for money at first but very quickly set up a way of dealing with it that traded on the false premise of the child's unexplained disappearance, and continues to do so."


The McCann & tapas timeline has been shot to pieces, Jane Tanner did not see an abductor & Redwood is suggesting death before Madeleine left 5A without explaining to Kate or Gerry his reasons why...hence Kate "wanting to know" before next weeks GROUND SEARCHES in Portugal   
*gone fishing*



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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  Panda on Thu 1 May - 12:26

matthew wrote:A prosecution POV

"As has been pointed out on several previous occasions, it is not actually necessary to prove Madeleine is dead (or 'not still alive') by revealing her corpse. It can be done indirectly by proving that she was not abducted


If Madeleine McCann was not abducted then she is dead. She was not abducted. She is therefore dead, and has been for seven years, since before the establishment of 'Madeleine's Fund' by her parents, who did not ask for money at first but very quickly set up a way of dealing with it that traded on the false premise of the child's unexplained disappearance, and continues to do so."


The McCann & tapas timeline has been shot to pieces, Jane Tanner did not see an abductor & Redwood is suggesting death before Madeleine left 5A without explaining to Kate or Gerry his reasons why...hence Kate "wanting to know" before next weeks GROUND SEARCHES in Portugal   
*gone fishing*

Hi matthew, havn't seen you posting for a while.  

A long time ago the Portugese Prosecutor asked a Judge if there was enough evidence to go to Trial.....the Judge said, "show me the body", the same might apply to the McCann / Amaral case. Even if the English Court declares Madeleine dead for legal reasons what would the Portugese do,? I hope they close the case after this trial, the McCanns have been a bane on the lives of the Residents of PDL, refused to co-operate with the Portugese Police caused the sacking of several Portugese workers at the Ocean Club they don't deserve any more attention.



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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  matthew on Thu 1 May - 12:45

Hi Panda, it wasn't easy to reopen this case but reopened it has

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id151.html

Lawyer of McCanns admits to move towards court proceedings

After having been shelved, the process of the investigation of the disappearance of Maddie has little chance of being reopened, unless new evidence is found. This is the opinion of a judge contacted by DN yesterday on the eve of the release of the process to defendants, witnesses and media, starting today.

Based on his judiciary experience, the source believes that "only a key factor could lead to the resumption of investigations, and that would be something like the appearance of the body or per the accused request." Otherwise, he continues, "it is difficult for such a process to be open again, because you cannot be openning and closing a case that attracts so much media attention."

After having had access to the files of the process of the disappearance of their daughter, the parents of Madeleine McCann can now consider sueing former inspector of the Judicial Police Gonçalo Amaral and some Portuguese newspapers, due to statements issued on the investigations. The information was advanced yesterday by Rogerio Alves to DN.

Without going into detail about what he has read in the more than twenty volumes related to the investigation, Rogerio Alves said that prosecutions may be in the pipeline. Precisely, one of the targets can be some Portuguese newspapers, as has happened in the UK, a hypothesis that has already been mentioned. "In this moment it does not make sense to announce such a decision. This hypothesis is under consideration and we will be waiting until the end of the judicial holidays," advances the former Bastonário of the Bar (OA).

Even without assuming the possible processes, Rogerio Alves suggests what can happen in the future, when he warns that "no evidence was found to incriminate the McCanns, and the lack of evidence led to the closure of the case by the Attorney General, so those who say the contrary must now be thinking of how to save their faces ".

Despite all the research on the disappearance of Madeleine being available for public consultation today, that does not mean that it is accessible to anyone. As DN confirmed with a judicial source, "the fact that the process is open to third parties refers only to the media, that makes a bridge with society."

Not sure if Kate & Gerry requested the case to be reopened & if they did...what took them so long?

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  Panda on Thu 1 May - 13:22

matthew wrote:Hi Panda, it wasn't easy to reopen this case but reopened it has

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id151.html

Lawyer of McCanns admits to move towards court proceedings

After having been shelved, the process of the investigation of the disappearance of Maddie has little chance of being reopened, unless new evidence is found. This is the opinion of a judge contacted by DN yesterday on the eve of the release of the process to defendants, witnesses and media, starting today.

Based on his judiciary experience, the source believes that "only a key factor could lead to the resumption of investigations, and that would be something like the appearance of the body or per the accused request." Otherwise, he continues, "it is difficult for such a process to be open again, because you cannot be openning and closing a case that attracts so much media attention."

After having had access to the files of the process of the disappearance of their daughter, the parents of Madeleine McCann can now consider sueing former inspector of the Judicial Police Gonçalo Amaral and some Portuguese newspapers, due to statements issued on the investigations. The information was advanced yesterday by Rogerio Alves to DN.

Without going into detail about what he has read in the more than twenty volumes related to the investigation, Rogerio Alves said that prosecutions may be in the pipeline. Precisely, one of the targets can be some Portuguese newspapers, as has happened in the UK, a hypothesis that has already been mentioned. "In this moment it does not make sense to announce such a decision. This hypothesis is under consideration and we will be waiting until the end of the judicial holidays," advances the former Bastonário of the Bar (OA).

Even without assuming the possible processes, Rogerio Alves suggests what can happen in the future, when he warns that "no evidence was found to incriminate the McCanns, and the lack of evidence led to the closure of the case by the Attorney General, so those who say the contrary must now be thinking of how to save their faces ".

Despite all the research on the disappearance of Madeleine being available for public consultation today, that does not mean that it is accessible to anyone. As DN confirmed with a judicial source, "the fact that the process is open to third parties refers only to the media, that makes a bridge with society."

Not sure if Kate & Gerry requested the case to be reopened & if they did...what took them so long?

Hi Matthew, I know at times I am thick , but wasn't the case reopened to allow SY and OPORTO to access the files? We know SY have not found any information . OPORTO, the 4 man Portugese Police Officers have been working in Oporto and submitted their report to the PJ but nothing has happened so far. and SY is miffed because the Portugese will not share the info they have.

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  matthew on Thu 1 May - 13:47

lol. We know nothing what SY & the PJ are really up to...only compelling new evidence would allow the PJ to reopen this shelved case.

Lessons may have been learned from the original investigation...who says only one side can use spin?

"it is difficult for such a process to be open again, because you cannot be openning and closing a case that attracts so much media attention."

This is it...now or never


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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  Panda on Thu 1 May - 13:56

This has never been a normal case or it would not be still ongoing after 7 years, but it's like playing a game of snakes and ladders, up one minute and down the next.  The Wheels of Justice grind very slowly in Portugal , wake me up when it's all over.   

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  matthew on Thu 1 May - 14:00

That would be a good sleep   

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  Panda on Thu 1 May - 14:22

matthew wrote:That would be a good sleep   

I could do with it trying to fathom what is going on. , when you think just how many blogs, forums, Newspapers etc all discussing the same topic, for 7 yrs and we are still none the wiser !!! Yet if someone asked us all why we appear to be so addicted what could we say?

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  matthew on Thu 1 May - 14:41

Panda wrote:
matthew wrote:That would be a good sleep   

I could do with it trying to fathom what is going on. , when you think just how many blogs, forums, Newspapers etc all discussing the same topic, for 7 yrs and we are  still none the wiser !!! Yet if someone asked us all why we appear to be so addicted what could we say?

A 3 year old girls death has been covered up & for some of us it is impossible to look the other way

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  chrissie on Thu 1 May - 14:53

matthew wrote:
Panda wrote:
matthew wrote:That would be a good sleep   

I could do with it trying to fathom what is going on. , when you think just how many blogs, forums, Newspapers etc all discussing the same topic, for 7 yrs and we are  still none the wiser !!! Yet if someone asked us all why we appear to be so addicted what could we say?

A 3 year old girls death has been covered up & for some of us it is impossible to look the other way

Spot on Matthew!

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  Panda on Thu 1 May - 15:01

matthew wrote:
Panda wrote:
matthew wrote:That would be a good sleep   

I could do with it trying to fathom what is going on. , when you think just how many blogs, forums, Newspapers etc all discussing the same topic, for 7 yrs and we are  still none the wiser !!! Yet if someone asked us all why we appear to be so addicted what could we say?

A 3 year old girls death has been covered up & for some of us it is impossible to look the other way

Now don't come all pious on me matthew , admit it, it's the intrigue and the high profile people that interest us. Plus the little nagging feeling that maybe the McCanns ARE not guilty of Madleleine's demise. Guilty of neglect , yes, but cool enough to act the innocent for 7 years???? We all felt sorry that Madeleine disappeared because she was such a pretty child , but what exactly should we do to get justice for her. ? Iv'e done my bit , nothing else I can do.

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  wjk on Thu 1 May - 15:36

Panda wrote:
matthew wrote:
Panda wrote:
matthew wrote:That would be a good sleep   

I could do with it trying to fathom what is going on. , when you think just how many blogs, forums, Newspapers etc all discussing the same topic, for 7 yrs and we are  still none the wiser !!! Yet if someone asked us all why we appear to be so addicted what could we say?

A 3 year old girls death has been covered up & for some of us it is impossible to look the other way

Now don't come all pious on me matthew , admit it, it's the intrigue and the high profile people that interest us. Plus the little nagging feeling that maybe the McCanns ARE not guilty of Madleleine's demise. Guilty of neglect , yes, but cool enough to act the innocent for 7 years???? We all felt sorry that Madeleine disappeared because she was such a pretty child , but what exactly should we do to get justice for her. ? Iv'e done my bit , nothing else I can do.

I don't agree. I have no nagging feeling that they are not guilty. I don't believe they've acted not guilty for 7 yrs. Covered their backsides and put on a show to try and look not guilty, more like. Just being here and not going away is as much as we can do to try and get justice for her and I'll be here until the end, whenever that might be!

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  jeanmonroe on Thu 1 May - 16:14

but what exactly should we do to get justice for her. ? Iv'e done my bit , nothing else I can do.
------------------------------------------------------

there is one, final, thing you can do.

Write/contact David Payne and ask him what the 'few things' are that he knows and 'considers pertinent and relevent to establish the material truth', about a 3 years old child's 'disapperance', in May 2007 in PDL, Portugal.

He hasn't told the Police, maybe he'll tell you.


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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  interested on Thu 1 May - 16:33

No nagging feeling here. I consider they are responsible, if not for Madeleine's actual death, but for covering up her death. I've been reading today about the McCanns' recent comments and how Kate wants to "know" one way or another whether Madeleine is dead. She knows Madeleine is dead and the only thing she wants to "know" now is that she and her husband will not be charged. I have no nagging feeling about that. Their hypocrisy will not end until their dishonesty is exposed and they are formally charged - I just hope I live long enough to see that day.

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  kitti on Thu 1 May - 16:46

I agree....she wants US to know what we already know....they know, they've always known, we don't know what happened that night or the night before but what we do know is...Kate McCann knows Madeleine is dead hence the cadaver scent on her clothes, unless Kate McCann did all the covering up herself ,which I doubt, Gerry McCann knows too, THAT is written in the PJ files.



So they are both guilty off hiding a dead body....



Who did what and when will come one day.

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  tanszi on Thu 1 May - 17:31

my stance has always been that if the McCs want us to believe the children were left unattended, then they and no one else are ultimately responsible for whatever it was that happened to Madeleine, and the far reaching consequences of that, and all the other people who became involved and the subsequent effect on their lives and livelihoods.



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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  Lioned on Thu 1 May - 18:31

Demonstrably bad people.

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  malena stool on Thu 1 May - 21:02

Despicable ...............

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  jinvta on Fri 2 May - 5:34

tanszi wrote:my stance has always been that if the McCs want us to believe the children were left unattended, then they and no one else are ultimately responsible for whatever it was that happened to Madeleine, and the far reaching consequences of that, and all the other people who became involved and the subsequent effect on their lives and livelihoods.  

Exactly! They are culpable for whatever happened to Madeleine, and should have been arrested on suspicion of child endangerment right from the beginning. This would have put pressure on them to cooperate from the beginning and would not have allowed them to get their stories straight with their friends. However, as we all know, political intervention prevented the PJ from doing this.

Madeleine needs to be declared dead so that the McCanns can be prosecuted for neglect leading to harm. At the very least, this would be some form of justice for Madeleine.

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  Wintabells on Fri 2 May - 17:36

"a McCann family member photographed a subject of unique relevance to the search for their missing daughter before she was discovered missing".

Wracking my brains to work out what Dr Roberts is referring to here? can anyone help?

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  LJC on Fri 2 May - 23:56

Wintabells wrote:"a McCann family member photographed a subject of unique relevance to the search for their missing daughter before she was discovered missing".

Wracking my brains to work out what Dr Roberts is referring to here? can anyone help?

Perhaps the close up photo of her eye defect?

I've been deep in thought on this point also Wintabells.

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  flower on Sat 3 May - 11:52

An interesting observation........ Further to the last two comments from Wintabells and LJC does anyone have any ideas? Sorry, but it has beaten me................ will keep pondering though................

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

Post  almostgothic on Sat 3 May - 13:01

I've been bashing me brains out over this one too, so I'm glad that others are also thinking about it!

He mentions three coincidences:

In the first two, he is quite specific and mentions names -1) KM and 2) GM.
In the last one he mentions 'a McCann family member', which is not specific.
If it was K or G then he surely would have said so?
Does this hint at another family member?

In the first two, he gives a specific time as to when these coincidences happened - 1) eight hours before found missing and 2) over 24 hours before found missing.
In the last one, he merely states that it happened before she was discovered missing, which is not specific.

So what do we have here? A family member who is neither K nor G took a photo at an unspecified time?
Which could be any time at all, even pre-holiday?

Dr Roberts calls the photo 'a subject of unique relevance to the search ...'
And that SO puts me in mind of 'Juxtapose' and his 'one piece of gold evidence that cannot be refuted'.

I keep thinking of the tennis ball photo and remember reading somewhere that some think it was fake in terms of time and location. Of how the playing and adjoining surfaces, though similar colour-wise, were materially different. I don't know if they're right or wrong. But it's an interesting point, given Dr R's non-specific third coincidence.

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Re: "Schadenfraud" by Dr Martin Roberts-30/04/2014

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