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Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Claudia79 on Wed 30 Jul - 12:00

wantthetruth wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:Hatred is hatred. There isn't a good and a bad kind of hatred. The day people understand that is the day there are more chances humankind can live in Peace. Until then, History will keep repeating itself.

Well said   

A couple of days ago I carefully watched a Jew and a Muslim fighting online. Although it was sad, it was also hilarious in the bad sense. Both wanted the other to die a painful death. The Jew wanted Muslims to be wiped off the face of the world and the Muslim wanted Jews to be exterminated. Both were too stupid to realise that they are exactly the same: extremists which have no place in a civilised world. The ironic thing is that both believed they were right and I'm sure if they could they would kill each other.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Claudia79 on Wed 30 Jul - 13:07

It seems the baby delivered through an emergency c-section performed on the dead mother didn't survive.    

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/30/373329/palestinian-miracle-baby-dies/

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Claudia79 on Wed 30 Jul - 15:02

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/30/us-mideast-gaza-idUSKBN0FV04A20140730

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  katertaif on Thu 31 Jul - 9:59

Iris wrote:http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/07/media-cover-up-of-hamas-crimes-starting-to-unravel/

Good morning Iris

Everyone wants peace, in Gaza, and a negotiated settlement. There is only one sticking point and that is the complete and absolute refusal of Hamas to recognise the state of Israel. How can there possibly be any negotiations at least honest and frank negotiations with a n organisation that openly wants you dead or driven out of what they still insist is Palestine? the simple answer is there can be none. The moment there is a cease fire, and eventually there must be. Hamas will simply start preparing for the next round.

Those tunnels did not build themselves nor were they dug overnight. from the extent of them I would say they have been more than two years in the making and that means the negotiations leading to a cease fire in 2012 were a sham. Hamas never meant to keep any agreement. Siting launch pads and storing rockets in Schools and hospitals leave Israel no choice but to attack them or face months of continuous rocket fire themselves.

It is also quite possible for Hamas given a lack of concern for life among some of them to have deliberately fired on a school themselves just so they can blame Israel. I don't agree with Israel completely in the matter of the border area, that policy must change, but they must defend themselves against an enemy that wants them dead

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  wantthetruth on Thu 31 Jul - 11:13

http://www.channel4.com/news/israel-gaza-reserve-troops-un-palestine

Isreal calls up 16,000 more reserve troops.......

  

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Guest on Thu 31 Jul - 13:44

wantthetruth wrote:http://www.channel4.com/news/israel-gaza-reserve-troops-un-palestine

Isreal calls up 16,000 more reserve troops.......

  

I don't think they had a choice, when you see what they are up against.


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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  katertaif on Thu 31 Jul - 15:36

Iris wrote:
wantthetruth wrote:http://www.channel4.com/news/israel-gaza-reserve-troops-un-palestine

Isreal calls up 16,000 more reserve troops.......

  

I don't think they had a choice, when you see what they are up against.


Quite right Iris, I see once again the twin questions of sovereignty, and the hostile intent of those tunnels are not to be addressed.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Guest on Thu 31 Jul - 15:42

The last "peace deal" with Hamas was agreed in 2012. Those sophisticated tunnels have been built and equipped over quite a long period since 2012. To me, this proves that there was never any intention to abide by any peace agreement. Fool the Israelis once, shame on Hamas. Fool the Israelis twice, shame on Israel and the rest of the world.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  katertaif on Thu 31 Jul - 17:06

Precisely Iris. Yet the apologists will not address that or the sovereignty question, because they can't. The tragedy of Gaza is destined to be repeated as it has been more than once already, unless Israel sorts out Hamas once and for all. If they can do that, ultimately fewer innocents will be killed, and more children able in the end to grow up without fear. Israeli children as well as Palestinian.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Badboy on Sun 10 Aug - 1:35

ISIS ARE SUPPOSEDLY IN GAZA.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  katertaif on Sun 10 Aug - 9:10

Badboy wrote:ISIS ARE SUPPOSEDLY IN GAZA.

Good morning Badboy

Yes, that is certainly their claim, and given that Hamas is in itself a designated terrorist organisation there is every possibility that they are. From their point of view it would make perfect sense. Although I don't recall ever seeing or hearing any IS pronouncements in relation to Israel, I assume, like most of the terror groups that Israel is a prime target.

We've seen in demonstrations etc. that there is no thought to this, simply gut reaction. Israel has attacked Gaza. The reasons don't matter, what Hamas has done to cause it doesn't matter. I am shocked at some of our MP's like Gallloway, and now Abbott. shouting the odds against Israel. That is whipping up hatred if anything is. The terror groups must be rubbing their hands in glee. It's no good designating them as terrorist organisations, if some of our own MP's are going to court votes (because that's what they're doing) are going tot make them legitimate in this way.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  wjk on Sun 10 Aug - 20:00

This is why Israel SHOULD be allowed to defend itself and CANNOT open the boarders for 'trade' imo!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avivim_school_bus_massacre

Victims
Ester Avikezer, 23[5]
Yehuda Ohayon, 10[6]
Yafa Batito, 8[7]
Mimon Biton, 7[8]
Haviva Biton, 7[9]
Chana Biton, 8[10]
Shimon Biton, 9[11]
Shulamit Biton, 9[12]
Machluf Biton, 28[13]
Aliza Peretz, 14[14]
Rami Yarkoni, 29[15]
Shimon Azran, 35[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27alot_massacre

Victims
Ilana Turgeman of Safed
Rachel Aputa of Safed
Yocheved Mazoz of Safed
Sarah Ben-Shim'on of Safed
Yona Sabag of Safed
Yafa Cohen of Safed
Shoshana Cohen of Safed
Michal Sitrok of Safed
Malka Amrosy of Safed
Aviva Saada of Safed
Yocheved Diyi of Safed
Yaakov Levi of Safed
Yaakov Kabla of Safed
Rina Cohen of Safed
Teacher of Safed
Teacher of Safed
Teacher of Safed
Ilana Ne'eman of Safed
Sarah Madar of Safed
Tamar Dahan of Safed
Sarah Sofer of Safed
Lili Morad of Safed
David Madar of Safed
Yehudit Madar of Safed
Sylvan Zerach of Ma'alot
Fortuna Cohen (seven months pregnant) of Ma'alot
Yosef Cohen of Ma'alot
Eliahu Cohen, 4, of Ma'alot
One unknown of Safed
Unnamed Arab-Israeli woman of Fassuta
Unnamed Arab-Israeli woman of Fassuta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphinarium_discotheque_suicide_bombing

Victims
Maria Tagiltseva, 14, of Netanya[8]
Raisa Nimrovsky, 15, of Netanya[9]
Ana Kazachkova, 15, of Holon[10]
Katherine Kastaniyada-Talkir, 15, of Ramat Gan[11]
Irina Nepomnyashchi, 16, of Bat Yam[12]
Mariana Medvedenko, 16, of Tel-Aviv[13]
Yulia Nelimov, 16, of Tel Aviv[14]
Liana Saakyan, 16, of Ramat Gan[15]
Marina Berkovizki, 17, of Tel Aviv[16]
Simona Rodin, 18, of Holon[17]
Aleksei Lupalu, 16, of the Ukraine[18]
Yelena Nelimov, 18, of Tel Aviv[19]
Irena Usdachi, 18, of Holon[20]
Ilya Gutman, 19, of Bat Yam[21]
Roman Dezanshvili, 21, of Bat Yam[22]
Pvt. Diez (Dani) Normanov, 21, of Tel Aviv[23]
Ori Shahar, 32, of Ramat Gan[24]
Yael-Yulia Sklianik, 15, of Holon[25] – died of her injuries on June 2, 2001
Sergei Panchenko, 20, Ukraine[26] – died of his injuries on June 2, 2001
Jan Bloom, 25, of Ramat Gan[27] – died of his injuries on June 3, 2001
Yevgeniya Dorfman, 15, of Bat-Yam[28] – died of her injuries on June 19, 2001

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  katertaif on Sun 10 Aug - 22:26

Most of the western leaders, while paying lip service to a countries right to defend itself are not terribly interested in this side of the story. Israel has overreacted they say, and almost 2,000 innocent Palestinians have died. Nor are they interested in why these innocents have died, because Hamas' leaders are using them as human shields. Not themselves you understand, but their own people are even denied the safety of these tunnels. That's why they have died. None of these were apparently Hamas fighters.

MP's such as Galloway and Abbott speaking at mass meetings and whipping the crowd into a frenzy against Israel should (IMO) bar them from any public office since they are saying what they think will get them votes, and not necessarily what they really think. I noticed that Abbott yesterday said nothing of the murderous excesses of IS, nothing of the crucifixions of Christians (children among them) The kidnapping of women to be eventually sold as sex slaves, as they were in Nigeria a few weeks ago. People being buried alive, or stoned to death. Of course that wouldn't get her many votes in the "my brother right or wrong" type of scenario

Why is this not being treated the same way as Israel's supposed excesses in Gaza? Some of which have yet to be proven?

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  wjk on Wed 13 Aug - 20:27

Yet again, Hamas break the ceasefire!

http://news.sky.com/story/1318219/rocket-fired-into-israel-as-truce-about-to-end

At least one rocket has been fired from Gaza into Israel two hours before a three-day ceasefire was due to end, Israeli police say.

More follows...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28779813

Rocket fired from Gaza hits Israel
Breaking news
A rocket fired from Gaza has hit southern Israel just hours before a three-day ceasefire was due to expire, police say.

The rocket came down in an open area near Ashkelon, but caused no casualties or damage, a spokeswoman said.

Israeli and Palestinian negotiators have been involved in indirect talks in Egypt aimed at finding a long-term solution to the Gaza conflict.

About 2,000 people have died since the fighting in Gaza began on 8 July.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Badboy on Mon 18 Aug - 23:27

HAMAS HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF TRYING TO STAGE A COUP AGAINST MAHMOUD ABBAS,SO ISRAEL SAYS.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  katertaif on Tue 19 Aug - 0:47

Badboy wrote:HAMAS HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF TRYING TO STAGE A COUP AGAINST MAHMOUD ABBAS,SO ISRAEL SAYS.

That would make perfect sense from the Hamas viewpoint. They could then concentrate on wiping out Israel.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Claudia79 on Tue 19 Aug - 11:59

Stupidity really is universal.
A Jewish woman and a Muslim man getting married in Israel had to hire security.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727596/Mixed-couple-forced-hire-security-marry-amid-protests-Israeli-court-refused-ban-demonstrations-outside-reception-venue.html


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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Badboy on Wed 20 Aug - 13:49

TRUCE BROKEN YESTERDAY.
TALKS HAVE BROKEN DOWN.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  katertaif on Wed 20 Aug - 14:37

Badboy wrote:TRUCE BROKEN YESTERDAY.
TALKS HAVE BROKEN DOWN.

I don't believe the cease fire had any real hope anyway. They weren't even negotiating directly with each other. Israel has shown good will by withdrawing troops, now if they have to do it all again they will lose even more. That part of it seems to be quite acceptable to some.

I believe Hamas were simply taking stock. They have been hurt, with their tunnels destroyed (all of them?) they needed new launch pads, and possibly to replenish their stores of rockets.

I see a lot of rockets have been fired at Tel Aviv airport. Now an airport is civilian and it is just as much a war crime to fire on one as the war crimes the Israelis are supposed to have committed. strangely we don't hear about that side of it from the pro Palestinian faction.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Badboy on Wed 20 Aug - 15:05

George Galloway said Bradford should be an Israel free zone, being interviewed by police.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 20 Aug - 16:00

Badboy wrote:George Galloway said Bradford should be an Israel free zone, being interviewed by police.

And on Sky News he said he was not going to back down because of the police probe. He's claiming his right to freedom of speech. Well, George, your problem is that when your "freedom of speech" impinges on others' rights, you are committing an offence under UK law.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  katertaif on Wed 20 Aug - 16:05

Badboy wrote:George Galloway said Bradford should be an Israel free zone, being interviewed by police.

That is of course a 100% racist remark. Coming from one who has had questionable dealings with Saddam Hussein in the past, he himself is not only a dodgy character, but no respecter of free speech. At least you can have free speech, providing you are completely free to agree with him.

Taken holistically it's a disgusting way to tout for votes in the changing electorate make up of the country. Pandering to a crowd, some of whom at least may be very anti Jewish. Naturally if his words did somehow lead to violence against a Jewish person or Jewish property, the same Galloway would walk away saying it was no doing of his.

No doubt he will claim parliamentary privilege, which means that if we were doing it, he would be the first to demand our arrest.

How much credence can be placed in such a person? a person who claims to be a politician, although absolutely not a neutral one, and can appear on a popular programme, and suck Rula Lenska's toes. At least my wife told me that is what he did I personally have never watched it.

An extremely poisonous individual. alert and alive for the main chance at all times

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  katertaif on Wed 20 Aug - 16:13

AnnaEsse wrote:
Badboy wrote:George Galloway said Bradford should be an Israel free zone, being interviewed by police.

And on Sky News he said he was not going to back down because of the police probe. He's claiming his right to freedom of speech. Well, George, your problem is that when your "freedom of speech" impinges on others' rights, you are committing an offence under UK law.

As you say, freedom of speech only goes so far, and is a privilege that carries responsibilities. Personally I would like to see him, have his British citizenship revoked, and let him go and instruct the leaders of Hamas in democracy, and keeping promises.

The electoral make up of the country is changing, and Galloway's only interest is to see that his own nether regions stay firmly anchored to a green leather bench as long as possible. Doesn't matter what he says, or too whom, as long as there are votes in it.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Badboy on Sun 24 Aug - 19:40

ISRAEL HAS LEVELLED SEVERAL BUILINGS IN GAZA,METHINKS,ONLY SAW THE HEADLINE ON MSN,DIDN'T READ ARTICLE.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Post  Badboy on Wed 27 Aug - 0:03

I BELIEVE A TRUCE IS A POSSIBILITY.

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Re: Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

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