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Scottish independence referendum

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  LJC on Tue 16 Sep - 12:06

Iris wrote:
Panda wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11093454/Scottish-independence-its-a-scandal-that-half-of-us-are-excluded-from-the-vote.html

Why should people who don't live or work here get a vote?

Iris, Hi. I have always enjoyed reading your posts and have always valued your opinion. However, this remark does not sound like you at all because I have always formed an opinion from your posts that you are a generously and fair minded person. It is unfair, imo, that not all Scots get to have a say. I said earlier on, all it would have taken is for someone to prove they are Scottish born and bred for them to apply for a vote because at the end of the day Scotland is their birthplace and homeland. Not all Scots may have wanted to vote and would no doubt not have applied for a vote. But others are passionate about their own country - they just happen to live and work somewhere else. Its sad they have been given no say at all. The whole of the UK is affected but I'll accept it would be too biased towards a No vote if the whole of the UK voted; but Scots everywhere should have been given the chance. So, its not that democratic imo.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  LJC on Tue 16 Sep - 12:10

Marky wrote:i'll just chuck this into the arena. £4.6b represents about 10% of scottish tax revenue. spend is about £62b. that's a big hole.




http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBAQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisismoney.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fnews%2Farticle-2754728%2FSIR-IAN-WOOD-Why-Salmonds-wrong-Scotlands-oil-Its-running-faster-thinks-says-British-billionaire-built-North-Sea-fortune-makes-impassioned-plea-save-union.html&ei=FgMYVIvZC8XC7Ab2hYGIAw&usg=AFQjCNG9EVNDslqAWOv35IjIksIkYOAauQ&sig2=D6LNZk5P_sOhcfe1IJAPTQ

I read that Alex Salmond likes a flutter - he's a gambling man. Now I don't mind anyone gambling with their own money but if he gambles with other peoples money, he may turn out no better than the bankers who cost the UK so dearly under the last Labour government. I think we have all had enough of powerful people who think they can gamble with other peoples money. Thankfully its not going to be my problem.

LJC
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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Guest on Tue 16 Sep - 12:18

LJC wrote:
Iris wrote:
Panda wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11093454/Scottish-independence-its-a-scandal-that-half-of-us-are-excluded-from-the-vote.html

Why should people who don't live or work here get a vote?

Iris, Hi.  I have always enjoyed reading your posts and have always valued your opinion.  However, this remark does not sound like you at all because I have always formed an opinion from your posts that you are a generously and fair minded person.  It is unfair, imo, that not all Scots get to have a say.  I said earlier on, all it would have taken is for someone to prove they are Scottish born and bred for them to apply for a vote because at the end of the day Scotland is their birthplace and homeland.  Not all Scots may have wanted to vote and would no doubt not have applied for a vote. But others are passionate about their own country - they just happen to live and work somewhere else.  Its sad they have been given no say at all.  The whole of the UK is affected but I'll accept it would be too biased towards a No vote if the whole of the UK voted; but Scots everywhere should have been given the chance.  So, its not that democratic imo.

I suppose it would just have been too difficult and expensive to administer. And this was agreed between Salmond and Cameron. I suppose the idea of non-residents getting a vote brings back too many bad experiences of absentee landlords who never come anywhere near Scotland but think they should tell us how to run the place just because they've inherited some land here, or whatever. We've got people who've never even set foot in the place trying to tell us what's best for us and how to vote, as though we are all ignorant peasants. No other nation would put up with it and I don't see why we should have to. Even our three glorious UK party leaders only turned up out of duty when it looked like it was all going pear shaped for them.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Guest on Tue 16 Sep - 12:25

Alex Salmond and the SNP have a track record of eight years in Government. On the whole it has been a good and fair Government, I have only a few minor complaints, they have done some daft things but that has been far outweighed in my opinion by the positive things they have achieved. The previous Labour government in Scotland were shockingly corrupt and few were sorry to see them go. I would trust Alex Salmond to run the country, which is more that I could say for any of the shower in Westminster and certainly the Labour party in Scotland (I've sat on committees with the Salmond administration and I know first hand of many positive things they've done for ordinary Scots, which never make the papers).

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  LJC on Tue 16 Sep - 12:42

Iris wrote:
LJC wrote:
Iris wrote:
Panda wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11093454/Scottish-independence-its-a-scandal-that-half-of-us-are-excluded-from-the-vote.html

Why should people who don't live or work here get a vote?

Iris, Hi.  I have always enjoyed reading your posts and have always valued your opinion.  However, this remark does not sound like you at all because I have always formed an opinion from your posts that you are a generously and fair minded person.  It is unfair, imo, that not all Scots get to have a say.  I said earlier on, all it would have taken is for someone to prove they are Scottish born and bred for them to apply for a vote because at the end of the day Scotland is their birthplace and homeland.  Not all Scots may have wanted to vote and would no doubt not have applied for a vote. But others are passionate about their own country - they just happen to live and work somewhere else.  Its sad they have been given no say at all.  The whole of the UK is affected but I'll accept it would be too biased towards a No vote if the whole of the UK voted; but Scots everywhere should have been given the chance.  So, its not that democratic imo.

I suppose it would just have been too difficult and expensive to administer.  And this was agreed between Salmond and Cameron.  I suppose the idea of non-residents getting a vote brings back too many bad experiences of absentee landlords who never come anywhere near Scotland but think they should tell us how to run the place just because they've inherited some land here, or whatever.  We've got people who've never even set foot in the place trying to tell us what's best for us and how to vote, as though we are all ignorant peasants.  No other nation would put up with it and I don't see why we should have to.  Even our three glorious UK party leaders only turned up out of duty when it looked like it was all going pear shaped for them.

Whether someone has set foot in Scotland or not, whether they have the vote or not; anyone living in the UK is entitled to have an opinion as we are all affected. Its not a case of treating the Scots like peasants at all. Even foreign countries, if they trade with Scotland or if they are involved in Scottish finances; they have the obligation to tell their side and how it will affect them. Alex Salmond calls it scaremongering but it seems to a good many people that he is afraid of people hearing the truth. Companies and businesses have a legal obligation to tell of how they will be affected. And there are a great many true Scots who if you cut them in half their blood would be the colour of their tartan, who are not getting a vote and no doubt very few of them are absentee landlords; just hard working Scots. I am not disputing it was agreed between Salmond and Cameron but its not democratic and it favours the Yes vote imo.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  LJC on Tue 16 Sep - 12:51

Iris wrote:Alex Salmond and the SNP have a track record of eight years in Government.  On the whole it has been a good and fair Government, I have only a few minor complaints, they have done some daft things but that has been far outweighed in my opinion by the positive things they have achieved.  The previous Labour government in Scotland were shockingly corrupt and few were sorry to see them go.  I would trust Alex Salmond to run the country, which is more that I could say for any of the shower in Westminster and certainly the Labour party in Scotland (I've sat on committees with the Salmond administration and I know first hand of many positive things they've done for ordinary Scots, which never make the papers).

Corruption comes about over time and it comes about with complacency of your position and 8 years is nothing. Salmond will not be there forever and others will take his place. Certainly a Yes vote affects Labour in general far more than it will affect the Conservatives, who will probably do well if Scotland goes independent and Labour lose 40+ seats. David Cameron may be fatally wounded but the Conservatives overall would fair better than Labour I think in the long term. David Cameron knows his party would do better with a Yes vote but nevertheless he puts the future of the UK above his party.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Angelina on Tue 16 Sep - 13:15

Over 100,000 people living in Scotland who are from other countries are able to vote...when in a few years they may return to their own countries...and yet Scots living in England can't vote. Weird or what.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Angelina on Tue 16 Sep - 13:16

LJC wrote:
Iris wrote:Alex Salmond and the SNP have a track record of eight years in Government.  On the whole it has been a good and fair Government, I have only a few minor complaints, they have done some daft things but that has been far outweighed in my opinion by the positive things they have achieved.  The previous Labour government in Scotland were shockingly corrupt and few were sorry to see them go.  I would trust Alex Salmond to run the country, which is more that I could say for any of the shower in Westminster and certainly the Labour party in Scotland (I've sat on committees with the Salmond administration and I know first hand of many positive things they've done for ordinary Scots, which never make the papers).

Corruption comes about over time and it comes about with complacency of your position and 8 years is nothing. Salmond will not be there forever and others will take his place.  Certainly a Yes vote affects Labour in general far more than it will affect the Conservatives, who will probably do well if Scotland goes independent and Labour lose 40+ seats. David Cameron may be fatally wounded but the Conservatives overall would fair better than Labour I think in the long term.  David Cameron knows his party would do better with a Yes vote but nevertheless he puts the future of the UK above his party.

That would be a first...most politicians are only out for numero uno!

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  LJC on Tue 16 Sep - 13:21

Angelina wrote:Over 100,000 people living in Scotland who are from other countries are able to vote...when in a few years they may return to their own countries...and yet Scots living in England can't vote.   Weird or what.

Absolutely agree Angelina, its to do with where you come from. Perhaps some of these 100,000 people from other countries who live in Scotland are landlords or land owners who have no interest in the future of Scotland at all but can vote if they wish.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  LJC on Tue 16 Sep - 13:27

Angelina wrote:
LJC wrote:
Iris wrote:Alex Salmond and the SNP have a track record of eight years in Government.  On the whole it has been a good and fair Government, I have only a few minor complaints, they have done some daft things but that has been far outweighed in my opinion by the positive things they have achieved.  The previous Labour government in Scotland were shockingly corrupt and few were sorry to see them go.  I would trust Alex Salmond to run the country, which is more that I could say for any of the shower in Westminster and certainly the Labour party in Scotland (I've sat on committees with the Salmond administration and I know first hand of many positive things they've done for ordinary Scots, which never make the papers).

Corruption comes about over time and it comes about with complacency of your position and 8 years is nothing. Salmond will not be there forever and others will take his place.  Certainly a Yes vote affects Labour in general far more than it will affect the Conservatives, who will probably do well if Scotland goes independent and Labour lose 40+ seats. David Cameron may be fatally wounded but the Conservatives overall would fair better than Labour I think in the long term.  David Cameron knows his party would do better with a Yes vote but nevertheless he puts the future of the UK above his party.

That would be a first...most politicians are only out for numero uno!

True and Cameron would most likely be made to step aside if its a Yes vote but, looking at the bigger picture, a Yes vote is better for the Conservatives and yet the Conservative party as a whole wants a No vote. Labour have always relied on the Scottish vote to get them elected in Westminster on the other hand, so it is a first and I do feel the Conservatives are putting the UK first.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Guest on Tue 16 Sep - 13:27

LJC wrote:
Marky wrote:i'll just chuck this into the arena. £4.6b represents about 10% of scottish tax revenue. spend is about £62b. that's a big hole.




http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBAQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisismoney.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fnews%2Farticle-2754728%2FSIR-IAN-WOOD-Why-Salmonds-wrong-Scotlands-oil-Its-running-faster-thinks-says-British-billionaire-built-North-Sea-fortune-makes-impassioned-plea-save-union.html&ei=FgMYVIvZC8XC7Ab2hYGIAw&usg=AFQjCNG9EVNDslqAWOv35IjIksIkYOAauQ&sig2=D6LNZk5P_sOhcfe1IJAPTQ

I read that Alex Salmond likes a flutter - he's a gambling man.  Now I don't mind anyone gambling with their own money but if he gambles with other peoples money, he may turn out no better than the bankers who cost the UK so dearly under the last Labour government.  I think we have all had enough of powerful people who think they can gamble with other peoples money.  Thankfully its not going to be my problem.

from what i've been told he's bitterly divided a country already divided by religion. whatever happens come friday about half the country will be disappointed. what will happen then?


Last edited by Marky on Tue 16 Sep - 14:08; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  LJC on Tue 16 Sep - 13:49

Marky wrote:
LJC wrote:
Marky wrote:i'll just chuck this into the arena. £4.6b represents about 10% of scottish tax revenue. spend is about £62b. that's a big hole.




http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBAQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisismoney.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fnews%2Farticle-2754728%2FSIR-IAN-WOOD-Why-Salmonds-wrong-Scotlands-oil-Its-running-faster-thinks-says-British-billionaire-built-North-Sea-fortune-makes-impassioned-plea-save-union.html&ei=FgMYVIvZC8XC7Ab2hYGIAw&usg=AFQjCNG9EVNDslqAWOv35IjIksIkYOAauQ&sig2=D6LNZk5P_sOhcfe1IJAPTQ

I read that Alex Salmond likes a flutter - he's a gambling man.  Now I don't mind anyone gambling with their own money but if he gambles with other peoples money, he may turn out no better than the bankers who cost the UK so dearly under the last Labour government.  I think we have all had enough of powerful people who think they can gamble with other peoples money.  Thankfully its not going to be my problem.

from what i've been told he's bitterly decided a country already divided by religion. whatever happens come friday about half the country will be disappointed. what will happen then?
 

Yes, he is a very divisive type of person. If roughly half of the Scots are voting No then he doesn't speak for everyone, no matter he has governed there for 8 years. In politics, 8 years is nothing and he has only governed on a limited basis thus far and yet still half of the population is saying No to him. He is on a personal crusade of his own for more power and to be quite frank about it, I think he worries a great many people.

LJC
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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Guest on Tue 16 Sep - 14:12

LJC wrote:
Marky wrote:
LJC wrote:
Marky wrote:i'll just chuck this into the arena. £4.6b represents about 10% of scottish tax revenue. spend is about £62b. that's a big hole.




http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBAQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisismoney.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fnews%2Farticle-2754728%2FSIR-IAN-WOOD-Why-Salmonds-wrong-Scotlands-oil-Its-running-faster-thinks-says-British-billionaire-built-North-Sea-fortune-makes-impassioned-plea-save-union.html&ei=FgMYVIvZC8XC7Ab2hYGIAw&usg=AFQjCNG9EVNDslqAWOv35IjIksIkYOAauQ&sig2=D6LNZk5P_sOhcfe1IJAPTQ

I read that Alex Salmond likes a flutter - he's a gambling man.  Now I don't mind anyone gambling with their own money but if he gambles with other peoples money, he may turn out no better than the bankers who cost the UK so dearly under the last Labour government.  I think we have all had enough of powerful people who think they can gamble with other peoples money.  Thankfully its not going to be my problem.

from what i've been told he's bitterly decided a country already divided by religion. whatever happens come friday about half the country will be disappointed. what will happen then?
 

Yes, he is a very divisive type of person.  If roughly half of the Scots are voting No then he doesn't speak for everyone, no matter he has governed there for 8 years.  In politics, 8 years is nothing and he has only governed on a limited basis thus far and yet still half of the population is saying No to him.  He is on a personal crusade of his own for more power and to be quite frank about it, I think he worries a great many people.

they ought to be worried about his number two as well i wouldn't turn my back on her.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  LJC on Tue 16 Sep - 15:04

Marky wrote:
LJC wrote:
Marky wrote:
LJC wrote:
Marky wrote:i'll just chuck this into the arena. £4.6b represents about 10% of scottish tax revenue. spend is about £62b. that's a big hole.




http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBAQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisismoney.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fnews%2Farticle-2754728%2FSIR-IAN-WOOD-Why-Salmonds-wrong-Scotlands-oil-Its-running-faster-thinks-says-British-billionaire-built-North-Sea-fortune-makes-impassioned-plea-save-union.html&ei=FgMYVIvZC8XC7Ab2hYGIAw&usg=AFQjCNG9EVNDslqAWOv35IjIksIkYOAauQ&sig2=D6LNZk5P_sOhcfe1IJAPTQ

I read that Alex Salmond likes a flutter - he's a gambling man.  Now I don't mind anyone gambling with their own money but if he gambles with other peoples money, he may turn out no better than the bankers who cost the UK so dearly under the last Labour government.  I think we have all had enough of powerful people who think they can gamble with other peoples money.  Thankfully its not going to be my problem.

from what i've been told he's bitterly decided a country already divided by religion. whatever happens come friday about half the country will be disappointed. what will happen then?
 

Yes, he is a very divisive type of person.  If roughly half of the Scots are voting No then he doesn't speak for everyone, no matter he has governed there for 8 years.  In politics, 8 years is nothing and he has only governed on a limited basis thus far and yet still half of the population is saying No to him.  He is on a personal crusade of his own for more power and to be quite frank about it, I think he worries a great many people.

they ought to be worried about his number two as well i wouldn't turn my back on her.

Well he is like the sheriff and she is his deputy and we all know what deputy's really want. She will not be content with being his deputy forever if they win the vote and she will be waiting for him to slip up. Politics is ruthless and she has a ruthless look about her.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Guest on Tue 16 Sep - 17:00

Marky wrote:
LJC wrote:
Marky wrote:i'll just chuck this into the arena. £4.6b represents about 10% of scottish tax revenue. spend is about £62b. that's a big hole.




http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBAQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisismoney.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fnews%2Farticle-2754728%2FSIR-IAN-WOOD-Why-Salmonds-wrong-Scotlands-oil-Its-running-faster-thinks-says-British-billionaire-built-North-Sea-fortune-makes-impassioned-plea-save-union.html&ei=FgMYVIvZC8XC7Ab2hYGIAw&usg=AFQjCNG9EVNDslqAWOv35IjIksIkYOAauQ&sig2=D6LNZk5P_sOhcfe1IJAPTQ

I read that Alex Salmond likes a flutter - he's a gambling man.  Now I don't mind anyone gambling with their own money but if he gambles with other peoples money, he may turn out no better than the bankers who cost the UK so dearly under the last Labour government.  I think we have all had enough of powerful people who think they can gamble with other peoples money.  Thankfully its not going to be my problem.

from what i've been told he's bitterly divided a country already divided by religion. whatever happens come friday about half the country will be disappointed. what will happen then?

It's simply not true to say that the whole country is divided by religion. Glasgow is divided by religion. Edinburgh, to a much lesser extent. Other places, no. I've lived in Ayr, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Inverness and Perth and I regularly work in Stirling and Dundee. I can't say I've ever seen any evidence of any religious divide outside of Glasgow, and even then, it's been instigated by the immigrant Irish community.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Guest on Tue 16 Sep - 17:02

I must admit I agree about the Poison Dwarf. She reminds me of the Klingons in Star Trek (the Klingon Emperor gets to be Emperor by murdering the previous Emperor.)

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Guest on Tue 16 Sep - 17:26

Iris wrote:
Marky wrote:
LJC wrote:
Marky wrote:i'll just chuck this into the arena. £4.6b represents about 10% of scottish tax revenue. spend is about £62b. that's a big hole.




http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBAQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisismoney.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fnews%2Farticle-2754728%2FSIR-IAN-WOOD-Why-Salmonds-wrong-Scotlands-oil-Its-running-faster-thinks-says-British-billionaire-built-North-Sea-fortune-makes-impassioned-plea-save-union.html&ei=FgMYVIvZC8XC7Ab2hYGIAw&usg=AFQjCNG9EVNDslqAWOv35IjIksIkYOAauQ&sig2=D6LNZk5P_sOhcfe1IJAPTQ

I read that Alex Salmond likes a flutter - he's a gambling man.  Now I don't mind anyone gambling with their own money but if he gambles with other peoples money, he may turn out no better than the bankers who cost the UK so dearly under the last Labour government.  I think we have all had enough of powerful people who think they can gamble with other peoples money.  Thankfully its not going to be my problem.

from what i've been told he's bitterly divided a country already divided by religion. whatever happens come friday about half the country will be disappointed. what will happen then?

It's simply not true to say that the whole country is divided by religion.  Glasgow is divided by religion.  Edinburgh, to a much lesser extent.  Other places, no.  I've lived in Ayr, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Inverness and Perth and I regularly work in Stirling and Dundee.  I can't say I've ever seen any evidence of any religious divide outside of Glasgow, and even then, it's been instigated by the immigrant Irish community.

only repeating what i was told. well, that's not entirely true. i've left a lot out. the parts about families being torn apart by all this. tax raises. that stuff.


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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Guest on Tue 16 Sep - 17:31

The NO campaign is certainly divided by religion. The Orange Order had a march to support them, but the official NO campaign very publicly dissociated itself from them.

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Scotland would not be able to join the EU for 5 years.

Post  Panda on Tue 16 Sep - 19:10

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11099167/Spanish-warn-independent-Scotland-would-get-euro-not-pound.html#article.

I will be surprised if the EU is still functioning after 5 years.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Guest on Tue 16 Sep - 19:32

Panda wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11099167/Spanish-warn-independent-Scotland-would-get-euro-not-pound.html#article.

I will be surprised if the EU is still functioning after 5 years.

pretty much as i said earlier. you gotta love the last paragraph.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Guest on Wed 17 Sep - 8:42

Yeah, like we're gonna be taking economic advice from Spain.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Angelina on Wed 17 Sep - 8:59

Iris wrote:Yeah, like we're gonna be taking economic advice from Spain.  

Oh well, there's always Greece

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  Panda on Wed 17 Sep - 9:00

Spain is in dire straits financially along with most EU Countries and they know if the Scots win Britain will leave the EU and their contribution will very much affect the coffers .

Cameron is such a wimp , when it comes to be told how noisy your Hoover must be it's time to make a sharp exit.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  katertaif on Wed 17 Sep - 9:06

Angelina wrote:
Iris wrote:Yeah, like we're gonna be taking economic advice from Spain.  

Oh well, there's always Greece

You never know, Salmond and Sturgeon may decide to go for an Eire style referendum. keep voting until they get it right, or at least as right as Salmond wants it. The nearer it gets to the vote the murkier the waters become and the more uncertain things seem to be. Of course much of that may be down to the dirty tricks campaigns being run by both sides.

katertaif
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Re: Scottish independence referendum

Post  katertaif on Wed 17 Sep - 9:14

Panda wrote:Spain is in dire straits financially along with most EU Countries and they know if the Scots win Britain will leave the EU and their contribution will very much affect the coffers .

Cameron is such a wimp , when it comes to be told how noisy your Hoover must be it's time to make a sharp exit.

What has the Scottish decision got to do with what would then be the rest of the UK's membership of the EU? A totally separate thing surely! I would have thought Spain would welcome a Yes vote if anything. An independent Scotland joining the EU as a nett contributor together with us already a nett contributor would between us put more into the communal coffers to the benefit of Spain, Greece, Roumania, Eire, etc. etc.

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Re: Scottish independence referendum

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