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Political blindness over the Ukraine

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Political blindness over the Ukraine

Post  katertaif on Sat 15 Nov - 21:41

It seems to me that Vladimir Putin has proved beyond doubt that threats and sanctions will not work. I'm not talking about who's right and who's wrong, just the situation. Although we should remember that while our politicians are playing silly games, innocents in the Ukraine are dying needlessly.

Putin likes, and protects his image as a "tough guy", therein lies the danger. Threats of sanctions, and yet more sanctions are going to do no good. That has been proved. he won't cave in to threats especially not from "pipsqueak" countries as he sees us. Obama has said many times that Europe is no longer America's problem. Many Americans agree with this philosophy of isolationism, meanwhile there are "incidents". Russian bombers intercepted by the RAF, a Russian submarine off the Swedish coast. We respond with more threats, that can only ramp up the stakes. We are making it more and more difficult for Putin to back down, especially when Russia has massively beefed up it's own armed forces, and military spending. The "incidents" may increase until there is an "accident"

It could easily get to a cold war scenario, and that, without the coat tails of the US to hang onto, could develop into a hot one. I can just see our politicians scuttling for cover then, with the Red Army chasing them. Stop the threats, stop treating Putin metaphorically with bell book and candle. he doesn't do a leper well at all. Talk to the man. Discuss the problems in the Ukraine sensibly and constructively. Meanwhile stop sanctions. They aren't working anyway.

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Re: Political blindness over the Ukraine

Post  fuzeta on Sun 16 Nov - 16:58

I agree Katertaif I do not see how threatening him is going to do any good. More like make him more determined. The saying goes " speak softly and carry a big stick" Well we have not got a big stick and we are shouting. No good will come of it. What the answer is I do not know, neither do our leaders!

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Re: Political blindness over the Ukraine

Post  katertaif on Sun 16 Nov - 23:57

fuzeta wrote:I agree Katertaif áI do not see how threatening him is going to do any good. More like make him more determined. The saying goes á" speak softly and carry a big stick" á Well we have not got a big stick and we are shouting. No good will come of it. á What the answer is I do not know, neither do our leaders!

Exactly so fuzeta, you don't know the answer, and neither do I. This Cameron though is the de Facto ruler of the country. He should certainly have some idea, through his army of advisors. IS/ISIL/ISIS is to me a global threat, they have already declared a Caliphate, which will resonate very strongly with Muslims world wide. That of course is why they did it. The longer we bleat about each new atrocity and do nothing, the stronger they will get.

My own opinion for what it is worth is they will have to be defeated militarily. At least Lord Dannat the one time head of what our politicians have left of our armed forces agrees on that. Again the longer we delay, the harder it will be. Obama has said repeatedly that European problems are nothing to do with The USA any more, and across the political spectrum in the US there has always been a very strong isolationist stance. Yes the US can be relied on to act to protect their interests; especially Saudi oil and in protecting their interests there, they are protecting ours as well. That I feel though is as far as they will go even when they have inaugurated a new president and Obama is just a bad memory.

So where is the fighting machine that can ultimately take on this gang of killers and rapist thugs? Putin controls it the Red Army. What are our politicians doing? putting his back up while events in the Ukraine unfold, just as they would with or without sanctions. All they are doing is mildly annoying him while "incidents" with Russian bombers, and Fighter aircraft with their IFF transponders switched off fly around the airways. How long before an "incident" becomes a real accident.What if Putin decides to play us at our own game, and impose sanctions of his own; like turning the gas off. He did just that to the Ukraine some time ago now when they didn't want to pay for it. Winter is coming.

Like you I don't know the answer but I believe we should be discussing it with him, in a normal rational manner.

We should take into account that for centuries The Ukraine was an integral part of all the Russias. There has been a great mixing of blood. If there are sufficient ethnic Russians living in the Eastern Ukraine, and feel they should be part of Mother Russia. Don't we feel the same about willy nilly becoming citizens of the United States of Europe? Or our own cultural heritage being changed, hence the support for UKIP? Are we then so very different from them? I'm sure that Putin would respond to a request for a military moratorium on operations in the Ukraine while we talk about it sanely calmly, and honestly instead of Camoron, (spelling deliberate) stops rattling sabres he hasn't got. Certainly the people of the Ukraine would be grateful if they stopped killing them.

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Re: Political blindness over the Ukraine

Post  fuzeta on Mon 17 Nov - 11:10

A good post Katertaif and very true. As history has shown us, for the greater good, it is sometimes necessary to sup with the devil.

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Re: Political blindness over the Ukraine

Post  katertaif on Mon 17 Nov - 23:25

fuzeta wrote:A good post Katertaif and very true. As history has shown us, for the greater good, it is sometimes necessary to sup with the devil.

That is unfortunately true. The Terror group IS/ISIL/ISIS will not be satisfied with the border they have now. This Caliphate of theirs is intended to be global. As it expands It will eventually come into contact with disciplined, and well trained troops. That must be our starting point with a coalition, and the Red army as it's core.

We still have a small fighting force, and as long as they don't allow themselves to become an Islamist country the rest of Europe can between us all mount more than enough to take these ákillers and rapists out. They aren't invincible, the air strikes have proved effective against the armour they looted from the Iraqi army. That in turn means they are still fighting for Kobani. The video they released a few days ago looks a bit sad now.

The danger being that there are strong salafist movements in Germany, and Austria. So far they seem to be given a free hand. We have them here as well with sharia controlled areas and no go zones. A fifth column would be fatal. Almost as bad as their respective governments voting for being neutral even Switzerland cant afford neutrality now. The danger is there. The enemy is known. It needs the western governments to grow some cojones. The sooner they do he sooner the persecutions of Christians, Alawites Yazidis and Shi'ites stop. The sooner the brothels are closed, and the girls in there released, and the sooner people are no longer being beheaded en Masse.

The other extreme danger is the unrest in Pakistan. They are nuclear capable, how capable I don't know. Nuclear weapons in the hands of these narrow minded idiots can only lead to one thing.


Last edited by katertaif on Mon 17 Nov - 23:29; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additional information.)

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