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No room at the inn

Post  katertaif on Wed 19 Nov - 7:35

The leaders of the churches in the west have for some time made "strange" statements. I think the Archbishop of Canterbury, the most Reverend Justin Welby, has just made another. We know that the Christian communities in the Middle East are being destroyed, I don't think that is too strong a word. His solution is to refuse them asylum. If anyone needed asylum, they do but he would deny them that.

His reasoning is that there is a risk that these communities, which have been there for 2,000 years may disappear. Too right Rev. Welby, I agree with you there!!!!!

He wants to set up safe havens. Does he really think IS, or the al Nusra Brigade or al Queda, or any of the terrorist gangs operating in that part of the world would honour such a safe haven?

Such a haven would have to be heavily policed by heavily armed troops, nothing else would stop the terrorists. To form any such havens without guarding them, would simply help the terrorists by bringing them all conveniently to one place.

I think the very rev, Welby should get a grip, and if any manage to struggle out of there they should be offered asylum. At least until the terrorists have been dealt with, and it would be safe or them to go back home.


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Re: No room at the inn

Post  kitti on Wed 19 Nov - 8:01

Westminster Cathedral was taken over a few weeks ago by praying Muslims ...they went inside and prayed.


They also broke into the gardens and took their mats an prayed on the grass outside the church.


They have their own mosques but they are not happy with that, they want to pray where Christians pray and take over, it's not right but it wasn't reported in the news, off course not, what would happen if we went int a mosque and did the same , well we wouldn't do that would we.


They burn poppies and are allowed to do it.


A person painted a poppy on a mosque door, he was jailed for 6 months.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  katertaif on Wed 19 Nov - 11:17

kitti wrote:Westminster Cathedral was taken over a few weeks ago by praying Muslims ...they went inside and prayed.


They also broke into the gardens and took their mats an prayed on the grass outside the church.


They have their own mosques  but they are not  happy with that, they want to pray where Christians pray and take over, it's not right but it wasn't reported in the news, off course not, what would happen  if we  went int a mosque and did the same , well we wouldn't do that would we.


They burn poppies and are allowed to do it.


A person painted a poppy on a mosque door, he was jailed for 6 months.

good morning kitti. You're absolutely right, I didn't know that, that makes it even worse,with Welby and that other arch idiot Rowan Williams, constantly promoting Islam: That they did as you say and were allowed to get away with it is worse than spineless. They burn a poppy and get fined £50 which was paid out of his benefits anyway. Despite being unemployed, he didn't even trouble to go to court.

You are right in that we wouldn't go into a mosque to pray but if we did, I guarantee you would be in the cell next to me. We have two legal systems operating now. One for us, and one for anyone we might upset. Then by the time we add sharia law being gradually introduced in London, Birmingham, and wherever else they can get away with it. So much for allegiance to the host country eh?

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Claudia79 on Wed 19 Nov - 12:55

I actually entered a mosque as a non Muslim and I happened to survive. I didn't pray because I don't pray. Lucky girl that I am. I happened to be be born and live in a country with more than 4 million Muslims and I still risked my life by entering a Mosque. What a shame there isn't a Nobel prize for courage.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Guest on Wed 19 Nov - 13:09

Claudia79 wrote:I actually entered a mosque as a non Muslim and I happened to survive. I didn't pray because I don't pray. Lucky girl that I am. I happened to be be born and live in a country with more than 4 million Muslims and I still risked my life by entering a Mosque. What a shame there isn't a Nobel prize for courage.

it is.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  katertaif on Wed 19 Nov - 13:22

Claudia79 wrote:I actually entered a mosque as a non Muslim and I happened to survive. I didn't pray because I don't pray. Lucky girl that I am. I happened to be be born and live in a country with more than 4 million Muslims and I still risked my life by entering a Mosque. What a shame there isn't a Nobel prize for courage.

I've been in four.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Claudia79 on Wed 19 Nov - 13:25

katertaif wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I actually entered a mosque as a non Muslim and I happened to survive. I didn't pray because I don't pray. Lucky girl that I am. I happened to be be born and live in a country with more than 4 million Muslims and I still risked my life by entering a Mosque. What a shame there isn't a Nobel prize for courage.

I've been in four.

And you survived without serious injuries? I'd publish a book if I were you.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Guest on Wed 19 Nov - 15:18

Claudia79 wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I actually entered a mosque as a non Muslim and I happened to survive. I didn't pray because I don't pray. Lucky girl that I am. I happened to be be born and live in a country with more than 4 million Muslims and I still risked my life by entering a Mosque. What a shame there isn't a Nobel prize for courage.

I've been in four.

And you survived without serious injuries? I'd publish a book if I were you.

sounds like a bit of a competition in the making here.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  katertaif on Wed 19 Nov - 15:30

Claudia79 wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I actually entered a mosque as a non Muslim and I happened to survive. I didn't pray because I don't pray. Lucky girl that I am. I happened to be be born and live in a country with more than 4 million Muslims and I still risked my life by entering a Mosque. What a shame there isn't a Nobel prize for courage.

I've been in four.

And you survived without serious injuries? I'd publish a book if I were you.

There is absolutely no problem with a non Muslim going into a Mosque with or without sarcasm, provided you enter the correct way. In my case washing my feet and leaving my shoes outside. In every case, with me, the Imam was delighted to show me round. In The Oman for example my trainees wanted me to go everywhere with them. They even taught me the Rakats. However I do imagine there is a world of difference between going into Mosques in Oman, Saudi Arabia or Nigeria as I have, and going into a Mosque controlled by IS, al Nusra Brigade, Boko Haram, al Shabaab, or al Queda. Were I to go into one there and survive, I should certainly write a book

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Guest on Wed 19 Nov - 15:52

I've been in a Mosque, a Chapel and a Gudwara. Do I win?

Oh, and several casinos which could also qualify as places of worship for some people.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  katertaif on Wed 19 Nov - 16:04

Iris wrote:I've been in a Mosque, a Chapel and a Gudwara.  Do I win?

and several casinos which could also qualify as places of worship for some people.

Good afternoon Iris. Yes you have it for me I've never been to a Sikh place of worship. several times to a C. of E. church but no Gudwara.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Claudia79 on Wed 19 Nov - 17:59

katertaif wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I actually entered a mosque as a non Muslim and I happened to survive. I didn't pray because I don't pray. Lucky girl that I am. I happened to be be born and live in a country with more than 4 million Muslims and I still risked my life by entering a Mosque. What a shame there isn't a Nobel prize for courage.

I've been in four.

And you survived without serious injuries? I'd publish a book if I were you.

There is absolutely no problem with a non Muslim going into a Mosque with or without sarcasm, provided you enter the correct way. In my case washing my feet and leaving my shoes outside. In every case, with me, the Imam was delighted to show me round. In The Oman for example my trainees wanted me to go everywhere with them. They even taught me the Rakats. However I do imagine there is a world of difference between going into  Mosques in Oman, Saudi Arabia or Nigeria as I have, and going into a Mosque controlled by IS, al Nusra Brigade, Boko Haram, al Shabaab, or al Queda. Were I to go into one there and survive, I should certainly write a book

Hmmm, I guess that's where the 'generalisations are stupid' thing comes from. I only had to take my shoes off. But then again, I also had to cover up my arms and legs to go into certain catholic churches. Religions and their questionable rules.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Claudia79 on Wed 19 Nov - 18:00

Iris wrote:I've been in a Mosque, a Chapel and a Gudwara.  Do I win?

Oh, and several casinos which could also qualify as places of worship for some people.

I think so. Especially if you managed to come out of all of them without injuries. Especially the casinos, which I personally think are the most dangerous ones!

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  katertaif on Wed 19 Nov - 19:06

Claudia79 wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I actually entered a mosque as a non Muslim and I happened to survive. I didn't pray because I don't pray. Lucky girl that I am. I happened to be be born and live in a country with more than 4 million Muslims and I still risked my life by entering a Mosque. What a shame there isn't a Nobel prize for courage.

I've been in four.

And you survived without serious injuries? I'd publish a book if I were you.

There is absolutely no problem with a non Muslim going into a Mosque with or without sarcasm, provided you enter the correct way. In my case washing my feet and leaving my shoes outside. In every case, with me, the Imam was delighted to show me round. In The Oman for example my trainees wanted me to go everywhere with them. They even taught me the Rakats. However I do imagine there is a world of difference between going into  Mosques in Oman, Saudi Arabia or Nigeria as I have, and going into a Mosque controlled by IS, al Nusra Brigade, Boko Haram, al Shabaab, or al Queda. Were I to go into one there and survive, I should certainly write a book

Hmmm, I guess that's where the 'generalisations are stupid' thing comes from. I only had to take my shoes off. But then again, I also had to cover up my arms and legs to go into certain catholic churches. Religions and their questionable rules.

"Generalisations are stupid" I'm afraid goes right past me. Women are treated differently in Mosques as they are in almost every religion. In the Roman church for example, a woman is supposed to cover her head. A man not. In a Mosque they have their own place in which to worship. For me it was an enlightening experience. especially my chats with the Imams. In Oman particularly.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  fuzeta on Wed 19 Nov - 19:36

The question is, were any of you praying to a different religion in these Mosques? I believe that was the point, looking back over the thread. Kitti pointed out that Muslims were praying in Christian places of worship. Would we be able to do the same, or even think of doing it?

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Claudia79 on Wed 19 Nov - 21:32

fuzeta wrote:The question is, were any of you praying to a different religion in these Mosques?  I believe that was the point, looking back over the thread.   Kitti  pointed out that  Muslims were praying in Christian places of worship.  Would we be able to do the same, or even think of doing it?

I don't know. I don't pray. But it was clear I was not a Muslim and some people knew I was raised in a Christian/Catholic environment. And there were several other non Muslims there. Mostly in silence. If they were praying or not, I have no idea. But it doesn't make any sense to me for people to pray, whatever their religion, in a place of worship where the God isn't the one they 'root for'. But then again, religion is a matter of faith not rationality so I guess anything is possible.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Claudia79 on Wed 19 Nov - 21:39

katertaif wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I actually entered a mosque as a non Muslim and I happened to survive. I didn't pray because I don't pray. Lucky girl that I am. I happened to be be born and live in a country with more than 4 million Muslims and I still risked my life by entering a Mosque. What a shame there isn't a Nobel prize for courage.

I've been in four.

And you survived without serious injuries? I'd publish a book if I were you.

There is absolutely no problem with a non Muslim going into a Mosque with or without sarcasm, provided you enter the correct way. In my case washing my feet and leaving my shoes outside. In every case, with me, the Imam was delighted to show me round. In The Oman for example my trainees wanted me to go everywhere with them. They even taught me the Rakats. However I do imagine there is a world of difference between going into  Mosques in Oman, Saudi Arabia or Nigeria as I have, and going into a Mosque controlled by IS, al Nusra Brigade, Boko Haram, al Shabaab, or al Queda. Were I to go into one there and survive, I should certainly write a book

Hmmm, I guess that's where the 'generalisations are stupid' thing comes from. I only had to take my shoes off. But then again, I also had to cover up my arms and legs to go into certain catholic churches. Religions and their questionable rules.

"Generalisations are stupid" I'm afraid goes right past me. Women are treated differently in Mosques as they are in almost every religion. In the Roman church for example, a woman is supposed to cover her head. A man not. In a Mosque they have their own place in which to worship. For me it was an enlightening experience. especially my chats with the Imams. In Oman particularly.

Sure.
Yes, they are. As they are treated differently in politics, the corporate world and the job market in general so I wouldn't expect it to be different in religion, particularly if churches base their 'teachings' on such old 'writings'. In fairness, I never had to cover my head inside a catholic church although my mother, who is 71 years old, says that when she was a child it was recommended.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Guest on Wed 19 Nov - 21:50

uhuh, thought i could see where this was headed. about time.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  katertaif on Wed 19 Nov - 22:55

fuzeta wrote:The question is, were any of you praying to a different religion in these Mosques?  I believe that was the point, looking back over the thread.   Kitti  pointed out that  Muslims were praying in Christian places of worship.  Would we be able to do the same, or even think of doing it?

Quite correct fuzeta that was the original thread which seems to have been overlooked. In my case (I cannot speak for others) I wanted to see the set up and speak to the Imam(s) I had no other motive, and while in the Mosque, I did not pray to anyone (I don't pray at all) What I did notice is that as per usual in Islamic affairs men and women were separated.

The original thread was an invasion of a church with harmful intentions. The point being they not only got away with it but it was barely reported, I imagine that was so that no one would be upset we cant have that

had it been the other way round, and Christians had taken over a Mosque with the same intentions, it would most certainly have been shouted from the roof tops, and I dare say there would have been demonstrations waving placards with behead those who insult Islam blazoned on them. Kitti was trying to point out the disparity in justice our multicultural society has.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  Claudia79 on Thu 20 Nov - 0:33

Just to make it quite clear, Katertaif, that in your post, unlike others that followed, you did not distinguish between Mosques in 'problem' areas and other Mosques. This is a quote from the post which caught my attention and made me reply:

You are right in that we wouldn't go into a mosque to pray but if we did, I guarantee you would be in the cell next to me. wrote:

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  katertaif on Thu 20 Nov - 1:31

Claudia79 wrote:Just to make it quite clear, Katertaif, that in your post, unlike others that followed, you did not distinguish between Mosques in 'problem' areas and other Mosques. This is a quote from the post which caught my attention and made me reply:


I was talking about the forcible entry of a Mosque as I think you know. That in fact was the start of the thread, with a post saying that Muslims had deliberately entered a Christian place of worship complete with prayer mats. there could only be one interpretation of such an act, and it is not harmonious.

Had I or yourself for that matter done the same thing rather than enter in peace as we did. there would have been demonstrations in the streets calling for the heads of those who insulted Islam. Under such circumstances I repeat we would be in adjoining cells. I cant speak for Portugal with it's 4 million Muslims. but that would happen in Britain, and has happened with far less cause.

I for one would never dream of forcibly entering a place of worship in order to impose my own method of worship, and I believe such an act should be universally condemned.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  kitti on Thu 20 Nov - 6:50

Respect.....where is it.


I would never dream off going into a mosque and praying to my god, what's the point, I'm s christian besides I prob wouldn't get out alive if I did, I wouldn't do it, disrespectful.



So why is it ok for Muslims to 'take over' which they did , it wasn't one or two off them, the whole church was entered by Muslims and one women complained in the church, and they prayed to their god, why, why did they do that, disrespectful THEN they broke into the gardens and prayed, why.


They have their mosques but they all jointly decided to 'intimidate' which I would feel intimidated if i was in church and they came in whilst i was quietly having a moment to myself ...no respect for other people's faith at all.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  katertaif on Thu 20 Nov - 7:18

You are absolutely right there kitti. As for respect why should they show respect to an infidel who is destined for hell fire anyway? All religions as far as I know except for the Buddhists believe themselves to have the one true faith and everyone else is wrong. A few months ago now, I watched a video in which one of the firebrands said that while all others think they are right, we KNOW that we are. So what are you supposed to do with that?


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Re: No room at the inn

Post  kitti on Thu 20 Nov - 9:59

I have no problem with people going into churches and they want to pray and it isn't their faith but to go into a church purposely to insult that church is not on...I wouldn't do it but it seems some faiths just don't want other faiths so they go into the church purposely to insult.

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Re: No room at the inn

Post  katertaif on Thu 20 Nov - 10:08

kitti wrote:I have no problem with people going into churches and they want to pray and it isn't their faith but to go into a church purposely to insult that church is not on...I wouldn't do it but it seems some faiths just don't want other faiths so they go into  the church  purposely to insult.

Absolutely kitti, I could not agree more. Any real religion would welcome others who want to go in, even if it's only curiosity. As  long as it's done in a spirit of peace. To invade a church in the way it was done,, is disrespectful at the very least.

I will say it again, if we had done that to a Mosque,, it would have been headline news, There would have been placard waving demonstrations in the street. Questions asked in parliament I don't doubt. From the news I read coming from Egypt Libya and a few other places, where the so called Arab spring has left extremists in charge, there would be rioting, with Christian churches burned to the ground and clergy killed.

In Saudi Arabia, you would be lucky to survive it.

I did a bit of research kitti vis a vis churches. In Egypt alone this year. 4 people were killed when a Muslim Brotherhood mob attacked a Coptic church in a suburb of Cairo.

An Evangelical church was attacked in a Cairo suburb, One man died after being shot in the head and a few days later a mob attacked a church in the Giza area, but were driven off after a gunfight with police. In the village of Tarshoub in upper Egypt, after rioting and burning several Christian properties, the priest of the Christian church was expelled from the village and the church remains closed. There are other incidents, but they serve to show the intolerance of some Muslims, even in places where things are supposed to be quiet. Of course similar things are happening all over the Muslim world, and I have to admit that in some places Christians are attacking Mosques. There are extremists everywhere. It's a hydra headed monster.


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