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No change there then

Post  katertaif on Tue 31 Mar - 13:51

I see the Liberal democrats are up to their normal pre election pranks. Promising anything and everything knowing perfectly well they will never be called upon to do any of it. They will not be the government after the election. However they have had a taste of lording it in a coalition, and I have absolutely no doubt that they are hoping to get the chance to do it again. yellow despatch box and all.The majority party whoever they are will squash Clegg's promises on the NHS etc. so that they can carry the can ánot the Lib. Dems. There are a number of reasons why the N.H.S. is faltering. An ageing and growing population, áOperations being routinely carried out now that were undreamed of when the N.H.S. was born. Abuses of the system. These are just a start. In real terms of what the N.H.S. actually costs, the sums being mentioned are a drop in the ocean anyway, and a cynical attempt to buy votes without actually paying for them.

Personally I think they have more chance of being greatly reduced as they were in the European elections. The lavish promises have a new note of urgency about them in an attempt to prevent that.


Last edited by katertaif on Tue 31 Mar - 13:53; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: No change there then

Post  Guest on Tue 31 Mar - 15:30

katertaif wrote:I see the Liberal democrats are up to their normal pre election pranks. Promising anything and everything knowing perfectly well they will never be called upon to do any of it. They will not be the government after the election. However they have had a taste of lording it in a coalition, and I have absolutely no doubt that they are hoping to get the chance to do it again. yellow despatch box and all.The majority party whoever they are will squash Clegg's promises on the NHS etc. so that they can carry the can ánot the Lib. Dems. There are a number of reasons why the N.H.S. is faltering. An ageing and growing population, áOperations being routinely carried out now that were undreamed of when the N.H.S. was born. Abuses of the system. These are just a start. In real terms of what the N.H.S. actually costs, the sums being mentioned are a drop in the ocean anyway, and a cynical attempt to buy votes without actually paying for them.

Personally I think they have more chance of being greatly reduced as they were in the European elections. The lavish promises have a new note of urgency about them in an attempt to prevent that.

they're just socialists with posh accents.


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Re: No change there then

Post  Badboy on Tue 31 Mar - 16:02

I THINK POLLS INDICATE SNP MIGHT HAVE MORE SEATS THAN LIB DEMS IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.
SOUNDS LIKE SNP MIGHT HOLD BALANCE OF POWER IN A HUNG OR QUATERED PARLIAMENT.

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Re: No change there then

Post  katertaif on Tue 31 Mar - 22:40

Badboy wrote: I THINK POLLS INDICATE SNP MIGHT HAVE MORE SEATS THAN LIB DEMS IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.
SOUNDS LIKE SNP MIGHT HOLD BALANCE OF POWER IN A HUNG OR QUATERED PARLIAMENT.

You may be right at that I could have mistaken yellow for orange, and it was only on screen for a matter of 5 seconds or so. That doesn't explain why it is that UKIP remain with their pair of seats. I think the SNP are praying that they will hold the balance of power, which is something I strongly disagree with but then I have no say in that side of it.

Listening to Clegg this evening, the Liberal Democrats have worked wonders. From their position as minor or junior partner party, they pushed through all that is good against the wishes of the dastardly senior partner and blocked all that was bad. I assume that is why they were so severely hammered in the European elections, and why they are terrified that the same may happen in May.

One thing I see, the hymn sheet has changed from everyone go to University to everyone get an apprenticeship. One of the Labour candidates claimed that we have had to employ immigrant labour from outside the EU as the indigenous work force were not trained up, but are becoming so now. That comment was breathtaking in it's monumental ignorance or arrogance, I'm not sure which. What were the years of everyone go to Uni for if it wasn't to give us this wonderfully trained workforce, and if apprenticeships are the answer, why were they scrapped for so many years, leading to a skills gap now?

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Re: No change there then

Post  fuzeta on Tue 31 Mar - 23:09

Oh yes to hear him talk Clegg was God's gift to the last government. The devil's more like. To listen to him talk you would think he had worked wonders. Constantly stopping those nasty Tories in all their evil deeds. Constantly coming up with wonderful schemes to waste money and achieve nowt. What a big girl's blouse he is. Neither use nor ornament.

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Re: No change there then

Post  katertaif on Wed 1 Apr - 1:24

fuzeta wrote:Oh yes to hear him talk Clegg was God's gift to the last government. The devil's more like. áTo listen to him talk you would think he had worked wonders. Constantly stopping those nasty Tories in all their evil deeds. Constantly coming up with wonderful schemes to waste money and áachieve nowt. á What a big girl's blouse he is. Neither use nor ornament.

Quite so fuzeta

This election is shaping up to be the closest one in our history. None of the alleged politicians of the three largest parties will go near the reasons for that. There is only one glaring reason and that is we just are no longer able to trust them not to line their own pockets at our expense. Even as we speak and although there is no government until after the election, we have MP's renting their London homes out to other MP's while renting another themselves. the bill(s) being met by the taxpayer with no option in the matter.

When the expenses scandal first broke on the incredulous voter, a couple were so bad, and so blatant, they actually went to jail. Not as many by a long chalk as should have been locked up, and the sentences in any event set to ensure they could continue plundering the public purse when they came out. The only thing I would give the Tories over Labour and the Liberals is that their fiddling was more imaginative.

At the last election Cameron made us a solemn pledge, one they as usual forget 5 years on. Immigration would be reduced to tens of thousands in this parliament. No if's or but's. He also at that time said if I don't keep that promise sack me. So what should we do now? His own seat is ultra safe. A Pug ape from the rock of Gibraltar would get in with the right colour of rosette. In point of actual fact he should lose his seat. as should Clegg . The man for all seasons.

I said at the start alleged politicians, because the days when someone entered parliament to do what they thought was best for the country are gone. now they enter parliament to do what they think is best for themselves. The wish to enter politics should automatically debar that person from doing so has never been more true.

Another thing that seems to have been forgotten by Clegg and his cohorts is that the last general election was also a hung parliament (is that a Freudian slip I wonder) The Liberals also has talks with Labour about offering them a coalition as well. now whether we agree with the tories or Labour it seems to me that the very fact that they were willing to prop up whichever party offered them the most was a betrayal of the voters trust anyway. Whatever we as individuals lean towards in our politics, you cannot be prepared to cast your vote left or right and still claim to be as pure as the driven snow. They were openly hungry for power, and it didn't matter how long the spoon was. Nor was it important what the electorate thought.

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Re: No change there then

Post  fuzeta on Wed 1 Apr - 10:21

Exactly right katertaif. I remember all Clegg's shenanigans, he is a disgrace. What worries me is that at the last election people were fooled by him. Putting him top of those silly debates even though he said one thing and five minutes later contradicted himself. This fact is all very worrying to me. Goodness knows what shambles we will end up with.

Yes Cameron has not fulfilled his promises and it will cost him but as you say his own seat will be safe.

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Re: No change there then

Post  Angelina on Wed 1 Apr - 18:48

fuzeta wrote:Exactly right katertaif. áI remember all Clegg's shenanigans, he is a disgrace. áWhat worries me is that at the last election people were fooled by him. áPutting him top of those silly debates even though he said one thing and five minutes later contradicted himself. áThis fact is all very worrying to me. áGoodness knows what shambles we will end up with.

Yes Cameron has not fulfilled his promises and it will cost him but as you say his own seat will be safe.

Clegg is awful and I hope he loses his seat at the election and takes that horrible Cable man with him. UKIP will fail miserably.

I have a horrible feeling with are either going to be ruled by the SNP or have coalitions for many years, like Italy.

IMO the reason the NHS is in such a mess is due to the large number of people coming here for free treatment and the fact - harsh tho it may seem - is that we are all living too long, often very miserably. I speak from watching someone bedridden for 7 years with no quality of life and no end to it in sight. A rotten, pathetic way to end up.

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Re: No change there then

Post  fuzeta on Wed 1 Apr - 19:19

Now here is something to cheer you up. We could end up with a coalition of Red Ed, The SNP and a couple of Liberals probably Nick and Vince.

Best book your ticket out of the country now or you won't get a seat after the polls.

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Re: No change there then

Post  Angelina on Wed 1 Apr - 19:35

fuzeta wrote:Now here is something to cheer you up. áWe could end up with a coalition of Red Ed, áThe SNP áand a couple of Liberals probably Nick and Vince.

Best book your ticket out of the country now or you won't get a seat after the polls.

Do you mean I've got to suffer another 6 weeks of election fever only to end up with that lot....arghhhhhhhhhh!!!

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Re: No change there then

Post  fuzeta on Wed 1 Apr - 20:05

I forgot a couple of 'Greens' as well. What with Nick and them we will all have wind turbines in our gardens.

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Re: No change there then

Post  katertaif on Wed 1 Apr - 21:56

Angelina wrote:
fuzeta wrote:Exactly right katertaif. áI remember all Clegg's shenanigans, he is a disgrace. áWhat worries me is that at the last election people were fooled by him. áPutting him top of those silly debates even though he said one thing and five minutes later contradicted himself. áThis fact is all very worrying to me. áGoodness knows what shambles we will end up with.

Yes Cameron has not fulfilled his promises and it will cost him but as you say his own seat will be safe.

Clegg is awful and I hope he loses his seat at the election and takes that horrible Cable man with him. á áUKIP will fail miserably.

I have a horrible feeling with are either going to be ruled by the SNP or have coalitions for many years, like Italy.

IMO the reason the NHS is in such a mess is due to the large number of people coming here for free treatment and the fact - harsh tho it may seem - is that we are all living too long, often very miserably. á áI speak from watching someone bedridden for 7 years with no quality of life and no end to it in sight. á A rotten, pathetic way to end up.

Yes Angelina, that is certainly one reason for the problems the NHS has. We have had a step increase in population, while at the same time our infrastructure has not grown to keep pace. That population requires treatment just like the rest of us. Then there are the medical migrants. One way or another, all of our services are struggling to cope. The question is not if, but when a serious breakdown will happen. A mild winter has saved us from the predicted power cuts, but what of future years?

I think UKIP deserves a chance, if for no other reason than they cannot be any worse than the three main parties, who between them, with their sectarian politics have damaged this country severely. Osborne and Cameron can bleat all they want to about economic recoveries and faster growth than anyone else. Most of it is on the basis of massaged figures. Similar to when G. Brown promised British jobs for British workers, then 6 months later we find that something like 80% of jobs were in fact going to foreign workers. The unemployment figures have been so manipulated as to be totally meaningless.

Another reason for heaving the Lib. Dems. out on their ears s that after being (deservedly) out of power for a century, they cried for proportional representation (PR) it would of course give them more seats and could only take away seats from the other two. Then with over 50 MP's and a taste of power at last, they became worried. If they had REAL power they may have to disgrace themselves as they did before by reneging on all the flash promises they made when there wasn't a chance of them forming a government. In any case they had what they wanted, the trappings of power, and at the same time able to blame the Tories for the bad, and pat themselves on the back for the good. So they no longer wanted PR; they wanted the status quo. They had promised a referendum however so they cobbled up this notion of AV. With the BNP starting to gain favour as well as UKIP, the last thing they wanted or needed was any change. So in it' s way, the concept of AV was brilliant, it would preserve the status quo, keep out the BNP and UKIP, and if we did accept it, it would be guaranteed to return a hung parliament as it does in those countries that have it. Yet another reason for not voting Lib. Dem on the 7th May.

Just a final one on the NHS, we agree there are many receiving free treatment who should not be, and the hospitals and GP's say there are great difficulties in collecting the money, and they are not "tax" collectors anyway. Well I have spent the greater part of my working life living and working in various places where they have no NHS. S. Africa, Nigeria, Botswana, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Holland Oman among them. I have unfortunately fallen ill from time to time and there was never any difficulty about getting the money, often before the treatment. Why is it so difficult to do it here?

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Re: No change there then

Post  Badboy on Thu 2 Apr - 1:30

I SAW SOMETHING ABOUT A POL SUGGESTING NICK CLGG WILL LOSE HIS SEAT IN SHEFFIELD,I BELIEVE.

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Re: No change there then

Post  katertaif on Thu 2 Apr - 11:40

Badboy wrote:I SAW SOMETHING ABOUT A POL SUGGESTING NICK CLGG WILL LOSE HIS SEAT IN SHEFFIELD,I BELIEVE.

Yes I saw that one as well. it is very rare for a safe seat to change hands but not unknown. With a little luck it will happen to Clegg. Personally I find all this backbiting after 5 years of coalition to be highly distasteful. The holding up of a yellow despatch box by Alexander being a prime example. Alexander was one of four who must have signed off on the budget. he had to. Whatever you or I or anyone else thinks of the budget. Alexander signed to say he agreed or at least accepted it. To be holding up a yellow despatch box within hours is breath taking in it's arrogance.

Cable and Clegg mouthing off against the tories after 5 years of co-operation. Or have they simply been quietly accepting the additional salaries, the authority of power without the responsibility, and above all happily grabbing all the other perks their exalted positions conferred on them. and the doors that would be opened for them to make more money? Is it any wonder that no one trusted them for over a century? Two faced isn't in it. forty two faced as my Mother used to say about covers it.

Politics is a dirty game, and a devious one. made more so I believe by the calibre of people attracted to it these days. I mean to describe some of them as heavyweight politicians is a joke. Prescott was and still is little more than a thug, and a loud mouthed shop steward. If some of the tories got any more laid back, they would be horizontal altogether. but The Lib. Dems. really are pushing it.

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Re: No change there then

Post  katertaif on Thu 2 Apr - 11:52

fuzeta wrote:I forgot a couple of 'Greens' as well. áWhat with Nick and them we will all have wind turbines in our gardens.

I'm quite sure that given enough time the "Green's" will come up with something being damaged by wind turbines. I've picked out a nice little cave, Just in case!. A pity we will not be able to go to Prague again, but an aeroplane is out of the question of course, and my government refuses to go in a balloon. She's getting very reactionary.

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Re: No change there then

Post  Badboy on Wed 15 Apr - 23:35

LIB DEMS HAVE PROMISED INCREASED SPENDING ON EDUCATION AND HEALTH.
EXTRA 8BILLION ON HEALTH,NOT SURE ON EDUCATION.

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Re: No change there then

Post  katertaif on Thu 16 Apr - 9:50

Badboy wrote:LIB DEMS HAVE PROMISED INCREASED SPENDING ON EDUCATION AND HEALTH.
EXTRA 8BILLION ON HEALTH,NOT SURE ON EDUCATION.

Good morning old son

The last time the Liberals were in power alone, áand then a period in coalition was a century ago, They were then steadily reduced in numbers to the low point of 6 MP's in the 1950's, Since then they have specialised in lavish promises. Secure in the knowledge that they would never ever be called upon to keep any of them. Gradually as the first hand memory of the disaster they caused faded, they have had a long road to recovery

Finally they got their chance and went into coalition with the Conservatives in 2010. They also had talks with Labour and the possibility of partnering them. All things to all people. They messed up as well on promises, notably over university fees, and are now doing what they seem to do best. Whatever good the last government did was down to the Lib. Dems. Unpopular decisions being the fault of the tories. Even a quick look shows that to be impossible. they couldn't have been a) strong enough to force the good things through against the more numerous tories while b) being too weak to stop them doing what was badly done/unpopular.

However the election goes on May 7th. it looks as if the Lib. Dems are just back to their normal. We will give you this this and this and abolish that and that and that and it will be a life of great beauty. Just vote for us, and you'll see.




Last edited by katertaif on Thu 16 Apr - 9:52; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mispelling)

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Re: No change there then

Post  Angelina on Thu 16 Apr - 18:56

According to a recently delivered leaflet from the Green Party, they are going to cut rail fares by 10% and increase Gvt spending on the railways........by returning them to public ownership. Not quite sure how they think that would work.

Unfortunately, I'm plenty old enough to remember the shambolic mess it all was before the sell off, the continual strikes by railway workers, etc etc.


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Re: No change there then

Post  katertaif on Fri 17 Apr - 0:53

Angelina wrote:According to a recently delivered leaflet from the Green Party, they are going to cut rail fares by 10% and increase Gvt spending on the railways........by returning them to public ownership. á á á á á Not quite sure how they think that would work.

Unfortunately, I'm plenty old enough to remember the shambolic mess it all was before the sell off, the continual strikes by railway workers, etc etc. á


Watching the so called multi party debate this evening Angelina, I was struck by one basic truth. the utter contempt in which the ruling political class holds us. We are quite obviously (as they see it) far too stupid to see through the lies, and hypocrisy. I was in addition struck by the quite obvious partisan audience gathered together by the BBC. It has always been the same with them

We are counters, pawns to be moved around on a political board no more than. Re-nationalisation of the railways in this day and age would barely inconvenience our political masters at best, it sounds good though you must admit. that it didn't work then, and wouldn't work now, is irrelevant. If it's worth votes. we'll say it. They can safely discount people such as yourself who will think about and examine such vote catchers. That is why I believe Cameron wasn't there. he took advice from his "spin" doctors. was advised he would lose votes either way but non appearance would cost him fewer votes than being there. In this case let Farage take the kicking.




In my innocence I always thought it was our votes who decided the government. it seems they do, by manipulating us.

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Re: No change there then

Post  joyce1938 on Fri 17 Apr - 10:49

Binkin heck ,I too watched a programn late and it was horrible ,one against another ,where do you find truth in al that shambles eh ? I wanted to put tape over their mouthes most of the time . This in of those times you might feel like voting. for no one joyce1938 too disgusted to even write more

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Re: No change there then

Post  Angelina on Fri 17 Apr - 12:35

I watched it and thought it was nowhere near as interesting as the last one. I can't believe I actually thought Milliband was the best one there

Leanne Wood actually wants to undo the laws put in place by Thatcher over strikes.

So, we've got one party wanting to re-nationalise the railways and another wanting the strike laws repealed....put the 2 of them together and we go backwards by at least 30 years...disaster!

And they have the cheek to say Cameron's policies are putting us back 30 years. Stones and glasshouses come to mind!


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Re: No change there then

Post  fuzeta on Fri 17 Apr - 19:36

Angelina wrote:I watched it and thought it was nowhere near as interesting as the last one. á á I can't believe I actually thought Milliband was the best one there

Leanne Wood actually wants to undo the laws put in place by Thatcher over strikes.

So, we've got one party wanting to re-nationalise the railways and another wanting the strike laws repealed....put the 2 of them together and we go backwards by at least 30 years...disaster!

And they have the cheek to say Cameron's policies are putting us back 30 years. á áStones and glasshouses come to mind!


Well I have to agree with you Angelina that Miliband did come across as the best one there, if you believed everything he said and did not look between the lines and lets face it he was not really very pressed. Leanne Wood as you say wants to go back thirty years and has so far not come up with how the economy can survive with these measures.

The awful grating voice of Natalie Bennett was an assault on the ears and to make it worse came up with the most ridiculous policies I have ever heard. I wonder if Australia would like her back? I doubt it.

Then the horrible aggressive manner of Nicola Sturgeon who is interested in three things only, Scotland, another referendum for them and screwing England for as much as she can get out of us.

Nigel Farage to me was the best because he wrapped nothing up and laid what he believed right on the line (agree with him or not) Of course the others had to have their moments of absolute disgust, it is expected of them and they don't fail. He alienated the partisan audience but he expected that, he was talking to the viewers not them.

The BBC never fail to round up the audience to suit them. Despite David Dimbleby's protestations that they were random. They were about as random as the audiences he has on 'Question time

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Re: No change there then

Post  joyce1938 on Fri 17 Apr - 21:34

Well said fuzeta,i agree too with what we are discussing right now .The best I can come up with ,with what we can read between the lines ,so much talk and sticky tape for the mouths were in order,my head was aching with one talking over the other. If we really have done better than most of Europe over last few years monitory wise, I cant see any of the others can be any better as their ideas are all so different to one another. Will they ever speak truth at these times ?joyce1938

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Re: No change there then

Post  fuzeta on Fri 17 Apr - 21:45

" If we really have done better than most of Europe over last few years monitory wise, I cant see any of the others can be any better as their ideas are all so different to one another"

That just about sums it up Joyce


"Will they ever speak truth at these times ?joyce1938 "

I doubt it Joyce
.


Last edited by fuzeta on Fri 17 Apr - 21:50; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add)

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Re: No change there then

Post  katertaif on Fri 17 Apr - 22:48

joyce1938 wrote:Binkin heck ,I too watched a programn late and it was horrible ,one against another ,where do you find truth in al that shambles eh ? áI wanted to put tape over átheir mouthes most of the time . áThis in of those times you might feel like voting. for no one ájoyce1938 átoo disgusted to even write more

Good evening Joyce.

Find truth in any sort of political programme? The whole object is to lie so as to convince yourself let alone the audience. It could have been a good programme, even an excellent one. Modern politics has descended áinto a sort of childish feud in which all sides make extravagant claims and shout yes you did.no I didn't and yah boo sucks to you at each other. If you can in addition claim that your big brother is bigger than his big brother and if he crosses that line he'll find out; the argument is complete.

They are throwing figures around at each other (and us) like confetti at a wedding. Not one in ten of us understands these figures which isn't surprising since they don't understand them themselves. What we do understand is that under the old style of politics which unfortunately is still with us. what they say now, and what they promise now will all be forgotten after the election whoever wins.

Have you ever noticed the one thing that all member of all parties used to agree on? when it came áto a rise in pay for MP's. they debated the subject agreed the figure and voted themselves that increase. Now of course it is supposed to be decided by an independent body when even the MP's realised they just couldn't go on awarding themselves more money. The body is about is independent as we are on our kidney function and works on the old boy system of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.



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Re: No change there then

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