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Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  Guest on Sat 13 Aug - 20:49

AnnaEsse wrote:
Marky wrote:
cherry1 wrote:
interested wrote:If I may be permitted to intrude on the conversation of others - Did the investigation really lead to "nothing"?  My understanding is there was not sufficient evidence to go to court (which often means not enough evidence to get a conviction/a "win".  I often think prosecutors and defense lawyers are only concerned about a "win" for whichever side they may represent and not the truth of what actually occurred.


You are right interested, there was evidence but they thought not enough or imo had instructions from above not to pursue.

Insufficient evidence is not NO evidence.

Of 9 allegations I believe four were put through to the CPS. So we were not talking about one allegation here.

insuffient evidence means no evidence. period. end of. get over it.  

No, it doesn't mean no evidence. It means what it says, "insufficient." not enough.



Simple Definition of insufficient

:  not having or providing enough of what is needed : not sufficient

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insufficient


aka, nothing.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 13 Aug - 20:51

Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:

I think that is what I have said above, but to get as far as the CPS, someone has to trust what the victim is saying for it to get as far as the CPS. If no one ever trusted what someone claiming abuse was alleging, no case would get to the CPS and there would be no prosecutions.

allow me to amplfy my comment. the CPS decide if it's a case they can win. a jury has the last word on the truth.

Marky, you are just repeating in a very simple way what I have been saying. Apart from the fact that someone who claims to have been abused has the right to be taken seriously. I have worked in Child Protection and with Child Protection police on investigations. I know how these things work. In our legal system, both the accuser and the accused have the right to be taken seriously. I do know who makes the decisions about charging...YES I DO KNOW WHO MAKES THE DECISIONS ABOUT CHARGING.

so then, we both agree but from different directions.

I am not agreeing, simply saying what the regulations are regarding Child Protection. Under law, the child has the right to be taken seriously. That is the first part of a lengthy process.

yes, you are agreeing but from the liberal side of the fence which is typically yes but no but yes. the allegation is made, it's investigated, there's no substance, it's over, move on.

you okay?


It is not up to me to agree or disagree with statutes. They are what they are. I am not offering opinion for anyone to agree with, I am stating what is set down in law.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  interested on Sat 13 Aug - 20:51

Marky wrote:
cherry1 wrote:
interested wrote:If I may be permitted to intrude on the conversation of others - Did the investigation really lead to "nothing"?  My understanding is there was not sufficient evidence to go to court (which often means not enough evidence to get a conviction/a "win".  I often think prosecutors and defense lawyers are only concerned about a "win" for whichever side they may represent and not the truth of what actually occurred.


You are right interested, there was evidence but they thought not enough or imo had instructions from above not to pursue.

Insufficient evidence is not NO evidence.

Of 9 allegations I believe four were put through to the CPS. So we were not talking about one allegation here.

insuffient evidence means no evidence. period. end of. get over it.  


Insufficient evidence does not mean "NO EVIDENCE". There was "evidence" but not enough to secure a conviction/a "win" for the prosecutor.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  cherry1 on Sat 13 Aug - 20:55



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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  Guest on Sat 13 Aug - 20:56

interested wrote:
Marky wrote:
cherry1 wrote:
interested wrote:If I may be permitted to intrude on the conversation of others - Did the investigation really lead to "nothing"?  My understanding is there was not sufficient evidence to go to court (which often means not enough evidence to get a conviction/a "win".  I often think prosecutors and defense lawyers are only concerned about a "win" for whichever side they may represent and not the truth of what actually occurred.


You are right interested, there was evidence but they thought not enough or imo had instructions from above not to pursue.

Insufficient evidence is not NO evidence.

Of 9 allegations I believe four were put through to the CPS. So we were not talking about one allegation here.

insuffient evidence means no evidence. period. end of. get over it.  


Insufficient evidence does not mean "NO EVIDENCE".  There was "evidence" but not enough to secure a conviction/a "win" for the prosecutor.

aka nothing. you have insufficient credit on your card. you have insuffient funds in your account. try buying a beer if you insuffient means to pay for it. see how far you get.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  interested on Sat 13 Aug - 21:04

You could have "credit" but not "sufficient" enough to purchase a beer.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  cherry1 on Sat 13 Aug - 21:08

Actually when I was collecting my nephews from school one Summer I came out without my purse and knowing how it was a hot day knew they would be looking forward to an ice cream, so I managed to find bits of change in car and a bit in pocket but not enough for all the ice creams. I explained to ice cream man I was sorry but a bit short as forgot purse and he still gave us ice creams although I had insufficient funds to pay for them, I had something but insufficient but still got ice creams

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  Guest on Sat 13 Aug - 21:11

interested wrote:You could have "credit" but not "sufficient" enough to purchase a beer.

christ.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 13 Aug - 21:14

Here is the legal definition of insufficient evidence.

INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE

TheLaw.com Law Dictionary & Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed.


When there is not enough competent evidence that would reasonably afford a plaintiff or prosecutor with the ability to win their case and, as such, a court will find that continuing the case would result inevitably in dismissal. Not enough evidence to prove the plaintiff’s or prosecutor’s case.

http://dictionary.thelaw.com/insufficient-evidence/

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  Guest on Sat 13 Aug - 21:26

AnnaEsse wrote:Here is the legal definition of insufficient evidence.

INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE

TheLaw.com Law Dictionary & Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed.


When there is not enough competent evidence that would reasonably afford a plaintiff or prosecutor with the ability to win their case and, as such, a court will find that continuing the case would result inevitably in dismissal. Not enough evidence to prove the plaintiff’s or prosecutor’s case.

http://dictionary.thelaw.com/insufficient-evidence/

aka nothing. why are some people finding this hard to accept? it's black or white. can't be any other way and there's no "ah yes but what if. " it's a yes or no. proven or not proven. not proven, game over.

i've lived too long.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 13 Aug - 21:29

Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:Here is the legal definition of insufficient evidence.

INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE

TheLaw.com Law Dictionary & Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed.


When there is not enough competent evidence that would reasonably afford a plaintiff or prosecutor with the ability to win their case and, as such, a court will find that continuing the case would result inevitably in dismissal. Not enough evidence to prove the plaintiff’s or prosecutor’s case.

http://dictionary.thelaw.com/insufficient-evidence/

aka nothing. why are some people finding this hard to accept? it's black or white. can't be any other way and there's no "ah yes but what if. " it's a yes or no. proven or not proven. not proven, game over.

i've lived too long.

Marky, please read again and note that twice the words "not enough" are used. Not enough will never mean nothing.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  Guest on Sat 13 Aug - 21:44

AnnaEsse wrote:
Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:Here is the legal definition of insufficient evidence.

INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE

TheLaw.com Law Dictionary & Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed.


When there is not enough competent evidence that would reasonably afford a plaintiff or prosecutor with the ability to win their case and, as such, a court will find that continuing the case would result inevitably in dismissal. Not enough evidence to prove the plaintiff’s or prosecutor’s case.

http://dictionary.thelaw.com/insufficient-evidence/

aka nothing. why are some people finding this hard to accept? it's black or white. can't be any other way and there's no "ah yes but what if. " it's a yes or no. proven or not proven. not proven, game over.

i've lived too long.

Marky, please read again and note that twice the words "not enough" are used. Not enough will never mean nothing.

insufficient evidence noun: a negligible amount of evidence, absence of sufficient evidence, bereft of eviience, deficient amount of evidence, devoid of sufficient proof, failing proof, inadequate amount of persuasive facts, inadequate confirmation, inadequate facts to prove the point in question, inadequate means of proof, inadequate proof, inadequate proof of facts, inadequate substantiation, incomplete evidence, insufficient admitted testimony, insufficient body of facts, insufficient corroboration, insufficient facts to establish the point in issue, insufficient means of proving a fact, insufficient proof at trial, insufficient veriiication, lacking proof, lean on evidence, meager degree of evidence, paltry amount of evidence, scant testimony, slim proof, sparse proof, thin evidence, weak on evidence.

aka. nothing. unless you're a "no smoke without fire" kinda gal, in which case you'll never accept what you don't want to hear.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  Guest on Sat 13 Aug - 21:45

sleep tight.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 13 Aug - 21:46

Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:Here is the legal definition of insufficient evidence.

INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE

TheLaw.com Law Dictionary & Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed.


When there is not enough competent evidence that would reasonably afford a plaintiff or prosecutor with the ability to win their case and, as such, a court will find that continuing the case would result inevitably in dismissal. Not enough evidence to prove the plaintiff’s or prosecutor’s case.

http://dictionary.thelaw.com/insufficient-evidence/

aka nothing. why are some people finding this hard to accept? it's black or white. can't be any other way and there's no "ah yes but what if. " it's a yes or no. proven or not proven. not proven, game over.

i've lived too long.

Marky, please read again and note that twice the words "not enough" are used. Not enough will never mean nothing.

insufficient evidence noun:  a negligible amount of evidence, absence of sufficient evidence, bereft of eviience, deficient amount of evidence, devoid of sufficient proof, failing proof, inadequate amount of persuasive facts, inadequate confirmation, inadequate facts to prove the point in question, inadequate means of proof, inadequate proof, inadequate proof of facts, inadequate substantiation, incomplete evidence, insufficient admitted testimony, insufficient body of facts, insufficient corroboration, insufficient facts to establish the point in issue, insufficient means of proving a fact, insufficient proof at trial, insufficient veriiication, lacking proof, lean on evidence, meager degree of evidence, paltry amount of evidence, scant testimony, slim proof, sparse proof, thin evidence, weak on evidence.

aka. nothing. unless you're a "no smoke without fire" kinda gal, in which case you'll never accept what you don't want to hear.

Your own definition above doesn't say no evidence.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  cherry1 on Sat 13 Aug - 22:32

Marky how did I manage to get my ice creams then with insufficient money! It was because I had some money - not no money

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  cherry1 on Sat 13 Aug - 23:27

Marky wrote:
interested wrote:
Marky wrote:
cherry1 wrote:
interested wrote:If I may be permitted to intrude on the conversation of others - Did the investigation really lead to "nothing"?  My understanding is there was not sufficient evidence to go to court (which often means not enough evidence to get a conviction/a "win".  I often think prosecutors and defense lawyers are only concerned about a "win" for whichever side they may represent and not the truth of what actually occurred.


You are right interested, there was evidence but they thought not enough or imo had instructions from above not to pursue.

Insufficient evidence is not NO evidence.

Of 9 allegations I believe four were put through to the CPS. So we were not talking about one allegation here.

insuffient evidence means no evidence. period. end of. get over it.  





Insufficient evidence does not mean "NO EVIDENCE".  There was "evidence" but not enough to secure a conviction/a "win" for the prosecutor.

aka nothing. you have insufficient credit on your card. you have insuffient funds in your account. try buying a beer if you insuffient means to pay for it. see how far you get.



I managed to get ice creams with insufficient money so sure I could get a beer too!

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  cherry1 on Sun 14 Aug - 9:25

Marky wrote:
interested wrote:You could have "credit" but not "sufficient" enough to purchase a beer.

christ.



No idea what a pint of beer costs, but let's say its £2, if you have in your pocket £1.99 technically you have insufficient credit to pay for the pint, but it would be a mean barman who wouldn't let you have a pint for the sake of being one penny short, if I was the barman (barwoman ) I would even put the extra penny in myself rather than deny the customer a beer for the sake of one penny!

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  Guest on Sun 14 Aug - 10:25

AnnaEsse wrote:
Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:Here is the legal definition of insufficient evidence.

INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE

TheLaw.com Law Dictionary & Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed.


When there is not enough competent evidence that would reasonably afford a plaintiff or prosecutor with the ability to win their case and, as such, a court will find that continuing the case would result inevitably in dismissal. Not enough evidence to prove the plaintiff’s or prosecutor’s case.

http://dictionary.thelaw.com/insufficient-evidence/

aka nothing. why are some people finding this hard to accept? it's black or white. can't be any other way and there's no "ah yes but what if. " it's a yes or no. proven or not proven. not proven, game over.

i've lived too long.

Marky, please read again and note that twice the words "not enough" are used. Not enough will never mean nothing.

insufficient evidence noun:  a negligible amount of evidence, absence of sufficient evidence, bereft of eviience, deficient amount of evidence, devoid of sufficient proof, failing proof, inadequate amount of persuasive facts, inadequate confirmation, inadequate facts to prove the point in question, inadequate means of proof, inadequate proof, inadequate proof of facts, inadequate substantiation, incomplete evidence, insufficient admitted testimony, insufficient body of facts, insufficient corroboration, insufficient facts to establish the point in issue, insufficient means of proving a fact, insufficient proof at trial, insufficient veriiication, lacking proof, lean on evidence, meager degree of evidence, paltry amount of evidence, scant testimony, slim proof, sparse proof, thin evidence, weak on evidence.

aka. nothing. unless you're a "no smoke without fire" kinda gal, in which case you'll never accept what you don't want to hear.

Your own definition above doesn't say no evidence.

not mine but thanks for the thought.


https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjCv5PwycDOAhWsAMAKHYxACGcQFggMMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Flegal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com%2Finsufficient%2Bevidence&usg=AFQjCNGp_WrnMvVE3NXVHKGtV48BY2sUhQ&sig2=6dtEsPDXW9uhXQhkoWcZFg

okey doke, let's try it this way. whatever you think they got amounts to a big fat nothing. no case, no charges, no trial. nothing. nothing will happen.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  cherry1 on Sun 14 Aug - 10:35

Oh why has my penny short gone blue?

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  cherry1 on Sun 14 Aug - 10:39

Now its gone black, spooky

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 14 Aug - 17:08

Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
Marky wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:Here is the legal definition of insufficient evidence.

INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE

TheLaw.com Law Dictionary & Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed.


When there is not enough competent evidence that would reasonably afford a plaintiff or prosecutor with the ability to win their case and, as such, a court will find that continuing the case would result inevitably in dismissal. Not enough evidence to prove the plaintiff’s or prosecutor’s case.

http://dictionary.thelaw.com/insufficient-evidence/

aka nothing. why are some people finding this hard to accept? it's black or white. can't be any other way and there's no "ah yes but what if. " it's a yes or no. proven or not proven. not proven, game over.

i've lived too long.

Marky, please read again and note that twice the words "not enough" are used. Not enough will never mean nothing.

insufficient evidence noun:  a negligible amount of evidence, absence of sufficient evidence, bereft of eviience, deficient amount of evidence, devoid of sufficient proof, failing proof, inadequate amount of persuasive facts, inadequate confirmation, inadequate facts to prove the point in question, inadequate means of proof, inadequate proof, inadequate proof of facts, inadequate substantiation, incomplete evidence, insufficient admitted testimony, insufficient body of facts, insufficient corroboration, insufficient facts to establish the point in issue, insufficient means of proving a fact, insufficient proof at trial, insufficient veriiication, lacking proof, lean on evidence, meager degree of evidence, paltry amount of evidence, scant testimony, slim proof, sparse proof, thin evidence, weak on evidence.

aka. nothing. unless you're a "no smoke without fire" kinda gal, in which case you'll never accept what you don't want to hear.

Your own definition above doesn't say no evidence.

not mine but thanks for the thought.


https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjCv5PwycDOAhWsAMAKHYxACGcQFggMMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Flegal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com%2Finsufficient%2Bevidence&usg=AFQjCNGp_WrnMvVE3NXVHKGtV48BY2sUhQ&sig2=6dtEsPDXW9uhXQhkoWcZFg

okey doke, let's try it this way. whatever you think they got amounts to a big fat nothing. no case, no charges, no trial. nothing. nothing will happen.

No charges, but that doesn't mean no evidence. The police prepared a dossier of evidence and presented it to the CPS. They did not present a dossier of no evidence, but one that was deemed to be insufficient. I don't believe the police would present a dossier of no evidence. Nothing has come of it, but it remains that insufficient still means not sufficient.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  Badboy on Sun 14 Aug - 23:31

INSUFFICENT EVIDENCE,I TAKE TO MEAN THEY HAVE SOME EVIDENCE EG WITNESS STATEMENTS ETC BUT INSUFFICENT TO PROVE ANYTHING.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 15 Aug - 8:49

Badboy wrote:INSUFFICENT EVIDENCE,I TAKE TO MEAN THEY HAVE SOME EVIDENCE EG WITNESS STATEMENTS ETC BUT INSUFFICENT TO PROVE ANYTHING.

Yes, that's my understanding, Badboy. The police seemed to take quite a while compiling their dossier for the CPS, who then decided that the evidence would not be sufficient to have a good chance of a conviction. I don't think the glare of publicity helped at all and maybe there shouldn't be any until a case like this goes to court.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  Lioned on Wed 24 Aug - 14:29

Marky wrote:
interested wrote:
Marky wrote:
cherry1 wrote:
interested wrote:If I may be permitted to intrude on the conversation of others - Did the investigation really lead to "nothing"?  My understanding is there was not sufficient evidence to go to court (which often means not enough evidence to get a conviction/a "win".  I often think prosecutors and defense lawyers are only concerned about a "win" for whichever side they may represent and not the truth of what actually occurred.


You are right interested, there was evidence but they thought not enough or imo had instructions from above not to pursue.

Insufficient evidence is not NO evidence.

Of 9 allegations I believe four were put through to the CPS. So we were not talking about one allegation here.

insuffient evidence means no evidence. period. end of. get over it.  :gum:


Insufficient evidence does not mean "NO EVIDENCE".  There was "evidence" but not enough to secure a conviction/a "win" for the prosecutor.

aka nothing. you have insufficient credit on your card. you have insuffient funds in your account. try buying a beer if you insuffient means to pay for it. see how far you get.
:gum:

I have insufficient spuds left in the fridge for tonights meal but there is enough for me so Mrs Lion can go without ! Thats how it works in my World anyway.

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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

Post  cherry1 on Wed 24 Aug - 17:03


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Re: Cliff owning an apartment in Ocean Club?

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