Missing Madeleine
Come join us...there's more inside you cannot see as a guest!

Dr Kelly & Phone Tapping

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Dr Kelly & Phone Tapping

Post  Guest on Sun 5 Jul - 7:14

I was just watching Henry Kelly doing the newspaper review on sky, and he mentioned a new book coming out about the death of Dr. David Kelly. He said the author has uncovered evidence that a phone call was made informing ? Downing Street of the death of Dr Kelly 1 hour before his body was discovered.

Sorry I wasn't listening too closely and missed any other details and there is nothing on the sky website, but I'll keep looking, but in the meantime I have found this link to an article about the death.


The article is too long to fit on this post but is by Norman Baker MP, written in 2006 and well worth a read.

Edited to add that just before his death, Dr Kelly had been planning to expose the UK government involvement in the manufacture of germ warfare.

Have I read somewhere that Gerry McCann was also involved in government research? The family certainly had some very highly placed political contacts which they were able to call upon.


Back to top Go down

Re: Dr Kelly & Phone Tapping

Post  Guest on Sun 5 Jul - 19:26

Operation Mason was the official investigation, set up by Tony Blair and carried out by Thames Valley Police, into the death of Dr Kelly, for the purposes of the Hutton enquiry.

What is strange is that the records show that Operation Mason was set up at 2.30 pm, July 17th 2003, half an hour BEFORE Dr Kelly left his home to supposedly commit suicide.


Back to top Go down

Re: Dr Kelly & Phone Tapping

Post  Susan on Fri 10 Jul - 19:03


WEAPONS inspector David Kelly was writing a book exposing highly damaging government secrets before his ­mysterious death.

He was intending to reveal that he warned Prime Minister Tony Blair there were no weapons of mass destruction anywhere in Iraq weeks before the ­British and American invasion.

He had several discussions with a publisher in Oxford and was seeking advice on how far he could go without breaking the law on secrets.

Following his death, his computers were seized and it is still not known if any rough draft was discovered by investigators and, if so, what happened to the material.

Dr Kelly was also intending to lift the lid on a potentially bigger scandal, his own secret dealings in germ warfare with the apartheid regime in South Africa.


This isnt what you mean granny but I googled and came up with this that I found interesting hmmm I wonder where that book is now!

\'Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.\' Abraham Lincoln


Number of posts : 11477
Age : 57
Location : Spain. The place where children are welcome in tapas bars
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2008-07-21


Back to top Go down

Re: Dr Kelly & Phone Tapping

Post  Guest on Fri 10 Jul - 21:40

I always believed the David Kelly was murdered. No way that guy went into the woods and killed himself.

Taken from Wikipedia:


[edit] "Many dark actors playing games"
On the morning of July 17, 2003, Kelly was working as usual at home in Oxfordshire. Publicity given to his public appearance two days before had led many of his friends to send him supportive e-mails, to which he was responding. One of the e-mails he sent that day was to New York Times journalist Judith Miller,[14] who had used Kelly as a source in a book on bioterrorism, to whom Kelly mentioned "many dark actors playing games."[15][16] He also received an e-mail from his superiors at the Ministry of Defence asking for more details of his contact with journalists.

[edit] Daily walk and subsequent death
At about 15:00, Kelly told his wife that he was going for a walk, as he did every day. He appears to have gone directly to an area of woodlands known as Harrowdown Hill about a mile away from his home, where he allegedly ingested up to 29 tablets of painkillers (co-proxamol, an analgesic drug). He then allegedly cut his left wrist with a knife he had owned since his youth.

[edit] Investigation
Kelly's wife reported him missing shortly after midnight that night, and he was found early the next morning.[17] The government immediately announced that Lord Hutton would lead the judicial Hutton Inquiry into the events leading up to the death. The BBC shortly afterwards confirmed that Kelly had indeed been the single source for Andrew Gilligan's report.

The Hutton Inquiry reported on January 28, 2004 confirming that Kelly had committed suicide. Lord Hutton wrote:

I am satisfied that none of the persons whose decisions and actions I later describe ever contemplated that Kelly might take his own life. I am further satisfied that none of those persons was at fault in not contemplating that Kelly might take his own life. Whatever pressures and strains Kelly was subjected to by the decisions and actions taken in the weeks before his death, I am satisfied that no one realised or should have realised that those pressures and strains might drive him to take his own life or contribute to his decision to do so.
Hutton concluded, controversially, that the Ministry of Defence were obliged to make Kelly's identity known once he came forward as a potential source, and had not acted in a duplicitous manner. However, Hutton criticised the MoD for not alerting Kelly to the fact that his name had become known to the press.

[edit] Controversial issues

[edit] "I will probably be found dead in the woods"
During the Hutton inquiry, a British ambassador called David Broucher reported a conversation with Kelly at a Geneva meeting in February 2003. Broucher related that Kelly said he had assured his Iraqi sources that there would be no war if they co-operated, and that a war would put him in an "ambiguous" moral position.[7] Broucher had asked Kelly what would happen if Iraq were invaded, and Kelly had replied, "I will probably be found dead in the woods." Broucher then quoted from an email he had sent just after Kelly's death: "I did not think much of this at the time, taking it to be a hint that the Iraqis might try to take revenge against him, something that did not seem at all fanciful then. I now see that he may have been thinking on rather different lines."

According to an entry in one of Kelly’s diaries, as related by his daughter Rachel to the Hutton Inquiry, the meeting actually took place on February 18 2002[18] a year earlier than that related by David Broucher.[19] And any such references to 'Resolution 1441' could not have taken place as it hadn't been passed until November 8, 2002. As such it could not be a source of hostility by the Iraqis.

[edit] Fatality of ulnar artery cuts
Although suicide was officially accepted as the cause of death, some medical experts have raised doubts, suggesting that the evidence does not back this up. The most detailed objection was provided in a letter from three medical doctors published in The Guardian,[20] reinforced by support from two other senior physicians in a later letter to the Guardian.[21] These doctors argued that the autopsy finding of a transected ulnar artery could not have caused a degree of blood loss that would kill someone, particularly when outside in the cold (where vasoconstriction would slow blood loss). Further, this conflicted with the minimal amount of blood found at the scene. They also contended that the amount of co-proxamol found was only about a third of what would normally be fatal. Nor was he seen to have left the house with any bottled water or other liquid which would have been essential to assist in the consumption of the pills. Dr. Rouse, a British epidemiologist wrote to the British Medical Journal pointing out that the act of committing suicide by severing wrist arteries is an extremely rare occurrence in a 59-year-old man with no previous psychiatric history.[22] Nobody else died from that cause during the year.

[edit] Little blood lost
Dave Bartlett and Vanessa Hunt, the two paramedics who were called to the scene of Kelly's death, have since gone public with their view that there was not enough blood at the location to justify the belief that he died from blood loss. Bartlett and Hunt told the Guardian that they saw a small amount of blood on plants near Kelly's body and a patch of blood the size of a coin on his trousers. They said they would expect to find several pints of blood at the scene of a suicide involving an arterial cut.[23][24]

However, two of Britain's top forensic pathologists, Chris Milroy and Guy Rutty, dismissed the paramedics' claims, saying it is hard to judge blood loss from the scene of a death, as some blood may have seeped into the ground. Milroy also told the Guardian that Kelly's heart condition may have made it hard for him to sustain any significant degree of blood loss.[25]

[edit] No fingerprints on knife
On October 15, 2007, it was discovered, through a Freedom of Information request, that the knife with which Kelly allegedly committed suicide had no fingerprints on it.[26][27]

[edit] Lack of formal inquest
The Hutton Inquiry took priority over an inquest, which would normally be required into a suspicious death.[28] The Oxfordshire coroner, Nicholas Gardiner, considered the issue again in March 2004. After reviewing evidence that had not been presented to the Hutton Inquiry, Gardiner decided that there was no need for further investigation. This conclusion did not satisfy those who had raised doubts, but there has been no alternative official explanation for Kelly's death.

[edit] Reactions
The BBC broadcast a programme on Kelly on February 25, 2007 as part of the series The Conspiracy Files;[29] the network commissioned an opinion poll to establish the views of the public on his death. 22.7% of those surveyed thought Kelly had not killed himself, 38.8% of people believe he had, and 38.5% said they did not know.[30]

[edit] Norman Baker book
On 19 May 2006 Norman Baker, Liberal Democrat MP for Lewes, who had previously investigated the Hinduja affair, which led to the resignation of government minister Peter Mandelson, announced that he had been investigating "unanswered questions" from the official inquiry into Kelly's death.[31] He later announced that he had uncovered evidence to show that Kelly did not die from natural causes.[32] In July 2006, Baker claimed that his hard drive had been wiped remotely.[33] Baker's book The Strange Death of David Kelly was serialised in the Daily Mail before publication in November 2007.

Family members of David Kelly expressed their displeasure at forthcoming publication, the husband of Kelly's sister Sarah saying, "It is just raking over old bones ... I can't speak for the whole family, but I've read it all [Baker's theories], every word, and I don't believe it."[34]

In his book Baker argued that Kelly did not commit suicide and examined the many unanswered questions that surrounded the incident. Baker examined the evidence and uncovered omissions and inconsistencies that cast doubt on the Hutton inquiry's conclusions. While Baker hinted at a cover-up involving Thames Valley Police, who carried out the official investigation into Kelly’s death, he also provided what he considered a plausible explanation to treat Kelly's death as suicide.[35]


Back to top Go down

How the PCC has failed to address phone taping issues since 2005

Post  pm on Tue 14 Jul - 18:28

"We do not do money. If we did money we would have lawyers, if we had lawyers the whole blinking thing would come to a grinding halt" Sir Christopher Meyer, PCC Chairman

Following the news that Rupert Murdoch's journalists [News International] were hacking phones and using criminal methods to get their stories, and after UK prosecutors ordered an urgent review of previous case files relating to the tapping of telephones belonging to prominent politicians, sportsmen and celebrities. After Scotland Yard refused to reinvestigate the phone-hacking there's a talk of a class action by those affected.

Other prominent victims of the Sunday newspaper are said to include former Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott, London’s Mayor Boris Johnson, Hollywood star Gwyneth Paltrow, former Cabinet minister Tessa Jowell and celebrities Lenny Henry and Nigella Lawson. Supermodel and actress Elle MacPherson and PR guru Max Clifford were also said to have been targeted. Source

Meanwhile the Commons' Culture, Media and Sport Committee heard today the PCC's [Press Complaints Commission] Director Tim Toulmin, who stated that there is no new evidence that journalists are still involved in phone-tapping.

«Asked whether there was any evidence that phone tapping was still happening in the industry, he replied: "No, not yet. If there is any out there and anyone wants to bring any evidence before us then of course, we will look at it right away."»

«John Whittingdale, the chairman of the commons culture committee, said today that the Guardian revelations about alleged phone hacking at the News of the World "raised questions" about the extent of the practice and "might contradict" evidence given by former News International executive chairman Les Hinton.

Speaking at the start of a hearing prompted by Guardian stories that the paper's publisher had secretly paid £1m to victims of phone hacking at the tabloid, he revealed that Hinton did not want to change the evidence he gave to a previous culture committee inquiry into press self-regulation in 2007.

Paul Farrelly MP asked Toulmin whether the PCC regretted his decision not to call former NoW editor Andy Coulson during its 2007 investigation into the extent of phone hacking and other activities on Fleet Street. Toulmin said "maybe it would have been better for the PCC to have done so. The focus of this is on have we been misled?"»

«The News of the World's former royal correspondent, Clive Goodman, and a private detective were jailed in 2007 after accessing voice messages left for members of the royal family and celebrities».
We note the assurances of the Chairman of News International that Mr Goodman was acting wholly without authorisation and that Mr Coulson had no knowledge of what was going on. We find it extraordinary, however, that the News of the World was prepared to apply one standard of accountability to the £105,000 retainer paid to Mr Mulcaire and another, far weaker, standard to the substantial cash payments paid to Mr Mulcaire by Mr Goodman. The existence of a "slush fund" effectively can only further the belief that editors condone such payments—on a "no need to know" basis—as long as they provide good copy. Self-regulation must require vigilance by editors, otherwise the impression may be given that editors will turn a blind eye as long as good stories are the result, a practice of which at least some editors are guilty, according to the General Secretary of the NUJ. We also find it extraordinary that in their investigation into the case the PCC did not feel it necessary to question Mr Coulson on these points. in HoC- Culture, Media and Sport Committee Publications, 2007

«Andy Coulson also quit as editor after admitting ultimate responsibility for the tapping - although he denied any knowledge of what had been going on. He is now Conservative leader David Cameron's key communications aide.»

«The Guardian has claimed it knows the names of other reporters at the newspaper who were involved in phone tapping.»

Sources for above article extracts denoted by «» in the Guardian, Express, HoC Culture, Media and Sport Committee Publications, Press Gazette, Telegraph, Journalism.co.uk and Times.

All of this would have never made into the news if the PCC had in 2005 followed the advice by the Information Commissioner Richard Thomas, who regulates the data protection act (as well as FOIA). In 2005 he wrote to the PCC, urging it to warn newspapers editors about the methods they often use to obtain personal details.
While the PCC, controversially, is not subject to the freedom of information act, the information commissioner disclosed the letters and e-mails under FOIA. And they show that the PCC had, over a period of a year, come under heavy pressure from the information commissioner to produce “a clear public statement warning journalists and editors of the very real risks of committing criminal offences.” Otherwise, said Thomas to Sir Christopher Meyer, PCC chairman, “The PCC and the principles of self regulation will be shown in a poor light.” in FOIA Centre News 06.08.05

«Richard Thomas learnt at a lunch with Cristopher Meyer and Tim Toulmin in December 2004 that the PCC guidance note had “run into the sand”. Thomas wrote to Meyer the following week, saying: “My concern is that unless the attention of journalists and editors is drawn to the real possibility of committing criminal offences under the data protection act 1998 there is a real risk that the all too widespread practice of paying to obtain confidential information about people in the public eye will continue unabated.

“As you know, I am strongly of the view that the PCC and the principles of self regulation will be shown in a poor light unless – at the least – you are able to point to a clear public statement warning journalists and editors of the very real risks of committing criminal offences. Ideally, this would be reinforced by a clear message from the PCC as to the unacceptability of journalistic law breaking.”

“We were broadly content with the draft we saw earlier in the year… My particular concern is that journalists and editors might take unwarranted comfort from the [public interest] defence.”

“I fear that it might be assumed that simply because a journalist subjectively considers a particular story to be in the public interest, the prohibitions on obtaining personal information without consent can safely be ignored. I am satisfied that the courts would not accept this defence lightly. In other words, they would consider that the public interest in the obtaining (and presumably subsequent publication) of the information in question would have to be extremely strong to justify obtaining the information dishonestly.”

Meyer replied by saying that he had asked Toulmin to “resurrect” the guidance note, adding: “It goes without saying that the [PCC] cannot condone criminal behaviour, and if the note raises awareness about what journalists must do to comply with the act then that will be most welcome.”»

Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 4300
Age : 45
Location : Cave of the MOUNTAIN OF THE 3RD WORLD - PORTUGAL - St Gerald i am sending your goats to you again
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2008-07-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Dr Kelly & Phone Tapping

Post  pm on Tue 14 Jul - 18:29

FOIA Centre Commentary
Tim Toulmin wrote a letter published in Press Gazette, after a shorter version of this article appeared in that magazine, saying: “The information commissioner was pushing at an open door as far as the PCC was concerned regarding his request for us to issue guidance about the data protection act.” “The dull truth is that the guidance was somewhat delayed by detailed queries from one of the trade bodies. It is hardly fair for us or the information commissioner to say he pressured us: when this hurdle arose we heard nothing from his office for eight months while the matter was considered further.”We say that one benefit of FOIA is that it helps the media and public go behind the PR gloss. And so it is that while Toulmin seeks to deny that the information commissioner pressured the PCC over stopping newspapers from obtaining confidential information illegally, we know the true picture. Correspondence spanning a year up until shortly before the PCC issued advice to editors over the subject in March 2005 shows that the information commissioner pressed for that guidance to be given and repeatedly asked for drafts to be made tougher: requests that met with partial success. The information commissioner’s office released the correspondence under FOIA. The PCC is not subject to FOIA, but that may yet change. Perhaps, we can then find out what’s really going on at the PCC.

After reading this, one has to ask: What good is the PCC for?

Watch the Press standards, privacy and libel inquiry at phone tapping, recorded today, with Tim Toulmin, Director, Press Complaints Commission; Paul Johnson, Deputy Editor, Guardian News & Media and Nick Davies, journalist, Guardian

Update via Journalism.com.uk: Phone hacking: Davies presents fresh evidence to the House of Commons

Nick Davies, the journalist who authored the main reports alleging widespread instances of phone hacking attempts, said that a key source had proclaimed the News International statement on Friday as 'designed to deceive'.

In addition, a number of new sources have got in touch following News International's statement of denial, the journalist claimed.

Davies has now been authorised to make public evidence which was previously kept private, he said

New evidence included:

* Email which showed that chief reporter Neville Thurlbeck and another [unnamed by Davies] News of the World reporter had been in communication with the private investigator Glenn Mulcaire, with a transcript of 35 messages from phones which belonged to Taylor and his legal advisers.

* A contract which showed former NOTW assistant editor Greg Miskiw's signature on an agreement with Mulcaire, who was using a false name.

Davies questioned the Metropolitan Police's handling of the case, criticising its assistant commissioner John Yates' statement last week, when Yates said that all relevant parties who had their phones hacked had already been contacted.

On Friday night, however, Davies said, the Metropolitan Police put out a statement saying 'the process of contacting people is underway and we expect this to take some time to undertake'.

This came out late on Friday, and was not reported by newspapers on Saturday, he added.

"I think there is something quite worrying here for all of us. I think what begins to be very worrying about all this is that we're not being told the truth," Davies said.

"It is very, very hard to resist the conclusion that News International has been involved in covering up the involvement of its journalists with private investigators who have broken the law," he said.

As if: Murdoch Unaware
in bloomberg news, 9th July (image Murdoch with News Corp CFO David DeVoe)

The Information Commission said in an e-mailed statement today that it had documented “widespread media involvement in illegally obtaining personal information.”

“Following a court order in 2008 we made available a copy of some information from our investigation into the buying and selling of personal information, to lawyers acting on behalf of Gordon Taylor,” Mick Gorrill, assistant information commissioner at the Information Commission, said in the statement. “This included material that showed that 31 journalists working for The News of the World and The Sun had acquired people’s personal information through blagging.”

News Corp. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Rupert Murdoch said yesterday that he wasn’t aware of any payments made to settle legal cases in which the company’s newspaper reporters may have been involved in criminal activity. “If that had happened, I would know about it,” Murdoch said in an interview at the Allen & Co. media conference in Sun Valley, Idaho.

By Joana Morais

Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster

Number of posts : 4300
Age : 45
Location : Cave of the MOUNTAIN OF THE 3RD WORLD - PORTUGAL - St Gerald i am sending your goats to you again
Warning :
0 / 1000 / 100

Registration date : 2008-07-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Dr Kelly & Phone Tapping

Post  Sponsored content

Sponsored content

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum