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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Alpine Aster on Wed 26 Aug - 20:56

Carolina wrote:
Alpine Aster wrote:A Mother's instinct is to protect her children not leave them in danger, if Kate thought that an abductor had taken Madeleine would Kate really leave the Twin's on their own!, the so called abductor could have been lurking about and gone back in and taken the Twin's as well, why not shout from the Apartment balcony after all it was like having dinner in your own back garden! Gerry's word's.


No way any mother would leave her children in a situation of danger, her first instinct would be to protect them. Panic is not a valid excuse. If a mother found herself in that situation, the adrenaline would start pumping and she would find the energy to carry both of them in her arms if need be. But Kate had to run to the Tapas Bar because that was part of the script, so that everyone would be a witness to the drama unfolding. Only they forgot what to do with the twins. As they were improvising and were not really experiencing the emotions of parents who have found their daughter missing, they kind of goofed it.

Indeed...

I also find it very hard to understand that if Kate though Madeleine had been abducted that the Twins were not woken immediately and have them both checked over...yet the McCann's just left them there asleep so strange...and very strange that the Twin's did not wake up with all the noise and People tramping over the Apartment...they were zonked out by the sound of it...that is not normal for two babies to sleep through all that...

Grab your babies and get the hell out of the Apartment....and shout for help as you was running from the Apartment....Kate just left them!!!!..

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  ann_chovey on Sat 29 Aug - 12:41

It is very strange that she left the twins. brisk walk to tapas 1 minute 4 seconds, I believe it was timed at, running back 35 seconds? possibly, blurting out 'Madeleine's been abducted', a few seconds of incredulity and tripping over each other by tapas mates before they all leg it to 5a. 1 and a half minutes minimum, I'd say. Anything could have happened, after all when Madeleine disappeared it was a very small window of opportunity we are told.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  wantthetruth on Sat 29 Aug - 12:56

No way I could have left the twins alone.

I would have screamed from the balcony, whilst phoning at the same time!

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  jassi on Sat 29 Aug - 15:10

One has to wonder why she didn't phone.

They both have phones and while it is possible that they both left them behind, it is not likely. They seem the type who wouldn't want to be seperated from their phone. Even if that were the case, some of the others at the table would be likely to have one.

Just another of these little mysteries, I suppose.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Christine on Sat 29 Aug - 16:27

jassi wrote:One has to wonder why she didn't phone.

They both have phones and while it is possible that they both left them behind, it is not likely. They seem the type who wouldn't want to be seperated from their phone. Even if that were the case, some of the others at the table would be likely to have one.

Just another of these little mysteries, I suppose.

They said in their statements : they didn't take their phone with them, nor their watches.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Guest on Sat 29 Aug - 18:04

On discovering her missing and their explaination of their behaviour in the aftermath.

From 15 secs -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YWCVSjIJk8&NR=1

"We were almost non-functioning" - Really! She actually said that!
But they managed to write a 'timeline' on their daughters favourite book and remembered to delete stuff from their mobiles. Functioned well enough to make all these calls to 'high places'. Managed to 'pose' on balconies for the media - the list of 'non-functioning' behaviour is endless!

And then - "tst (or tut)......we were working so hard really..."
This link to this video has been posted so often on blogs - IMHO it says so much. Poor Madeleine - she never had a chance.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  jassi on Sat 29 Aug - 18:07

Christine wrote:
jassi wrote:One has to wonder why she didn't phone.

They both have phones and while it is possible that they both left them behind, it is not likely. They seem the type who wouldn't want to be seperated from their phone. Even if that were the case, some of the others at the table would be likely to have one.

Just another of these little mysteries, I suppose.

They said in their statements : they didn't take their phone with them, nor their watches.

That was Mitchell the Mouth and he had to retract later.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Christine on Sat 29 Aug - 18:28

jassi wrote:
Christine wrote:
jassi wrote:One has to wonder why she didn't phone.

They both have phones and while it is possible that they both left them behind, it is not likely. They seem the type who wouldn't want to be seperated from their phone. Even if that were the case, some of the others at the table would be likely to have one.

Just another of these little mysteries, I suppose.

They said in their statements : they didn't take their phone with them, nor their watches.

That was Mitchell the Mouth and he had to retract later.

You're right, it was the Mouth, but he only took back the issue of the watches not of the phones.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Guest on Tue 1 Sep - 11:51

For what it's worth, here is my opinion. When something has happened to one of your children, you're immediate reaction is to grab ALL your children to you, making sure they are alright and see to the subject in hand. I have two young uns, and when one of them gets hurt/momentarily lost in a shop, my first reaction is to grab them both (or the one who's not lost) and scream like a crazed lunatic for someone to help me, while I either tend to the hurt one, or look frantically for the one who is hiding in a rail of trousers, if you see what I mean. I don't think for one second that it is 'natural', or 'normal' to ignore the two sleeping babies in the room from where Kate believed Madeleine had been abducted and run to the restaurant, not knowing what fate the babies held in the next few seconds/minutes. As someone else said, you would either stay with them while screaming for help, or grab them and run for help. THAT, IMO would be the 'normal' and 'natural' motherly thing to do. All, of course, just my opinion, but one of a mother.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Guest on Tue 1 Sep - 12:04

MissBlonde wrote:For what it's worth, here is my opinion. When something has happened to one of your children, you're immediate reaction is to grab ALL your children to you, making sure they are alright and see to the subject in hand. I have two young uns, and when one of them gets hurt/momentarily lost in a shop, my first reaction is to grab them both (or the one who's not lost) and scream like a crazed lunatic for someone to help me, while I either tend to the hurt one, or look frantically for the one who is hiding in a rail of trousers, if you see what I mean. I don't think for one second that it is 'natural', or 'normal' to ignore the two sleeping babies in the room from where Kate believed Madeleine had been abducted and run to the restaurant, not knowing what fate the babies held in the next few seconds/minutes. As someone else said, you would either stay with them while screaming for help, or grab them and run for help. THAT, IMO would be the 'normal' and 'natural' motherly thing to do. All, of course, just my opinion, but one of a mother.


I tend to agree, but the occasions you refer to were in a shop. Of course if you didn't grab the one that is present then there is a huge chance that whilst trying to find the missing one you'd lose that one too.

If you try and imagine the present one is asleep and in a confined space it does tend to alter the circumstances a bit.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  jassi on Tue 1 Sep - 12:12

Its never been satisfactorily explained why Kate did no go to Jane's apartment as her first port of call.
She knew she was there and would be the nearest assistance. Indeed, Madeleine might have been there.

I know that allegedly she was in a blind panic, though that doesn't fit with her persona - she is a trained doctor, an anaesthetist and GP no less and these sort of people do not just 'go to pieces' , so that reason really doesn't stand.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Guest on Tue 1 Sep - 12:21

jassi wrote:Its never been satisfactorily explained why Kate did no go to Jane's apartment as her first port of call.
She knew she was there and would be the nearest assistance. Indeed, Madeleine might have been there.

I know that allegedly she was in a blind panic, though that doesn't fit with her persona - she is a trained doctor, an anaesthetist and GP no less and these sort of people do not just 'go to pieces' , so that reason really doesn't stand.

Yes, she could have gone to Jane Tanners, it would have been sensible to do so. She is trained to hold it together in a crisis situation, but hell, a crisis situation involving your own children is certainly different. I think most mums go to pieces pretty quickly in a situation similar to this. Doctors aren't trained in what to do when one of their own children goes missing.

She was either acting, badly, or reacting unplanned to a crisis. I can't make a call on which of those happened that night.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Guest on Tue 1 Sep - 12:26

Brumdog wrote:
MissBlonde wrote:For what it's worth, here is my opinion. When something has happened to one of your children, you're immediate reaction is to grab ALL your children to you, making sure they are alright and see to the subject in hand. I have two young uns, and when one of them gets hurt/momentarily lost in a shop, my first reaction is to grab them both (or the one who's not lost) and scream like a crazed lunatic for someone to help me, while I either tend to the hurt one, or look frantically for the one who is hiding in a rail of trousers, if you see what I mean. I don't think for one second that it is 'natural', or 'normal' to ignore the two sleeping babies in the room from where Kate believed Madeleine had been abducted and run to the restaurant, not knowing what fate the babies held in the next few seconds/minutes. As someone else said, you would either stay with them while screaming for help, or grab them and run for help. THAT, IMO would be the 'normal' and 'natural' motherly thing to do. All, of course, just my opinion, but one of a mother.


I tend to agree, but the occasions you refer to were in a shop. Of course if you didn't grab the one that is present then there is a huge chance that whilst trying to find the missing one you'd lose that one too.

If you try and imagine the present one is asleep and in a confined space it does tend to alter the circumstances a bit.

I can see where you are coming from , but that 'confined space' was not unlike the shop I was in the middle of, still possibly very dangerous for my other child. Kate didn't know who was possibly still lurking outside or nearby. iykwim.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Guest on Tue 1 Sep - 12:34

Yes, I understand 100% what you mean.

My own personal experience of one wandering off in a shop is that I would grab the other and go search, or leave them with a trusted adult whilst I went and searched.

If they were asleep my main concern would be with the missing one, and I'm not 100% sure that I would wake two 2 year olds up and run around with them. It would make searching a bit of a nightmare and much slower.

It's difficult. I'm not sure that it's possible to get to the bottom of the psyche of a parent in this situation.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Guest on Tue 1 Sep - 12:44

Brumdog wrote:Yes, I understand 100% what you mean.

My own personal experience of one wandering off in a shop is that I would grab the other and go search, or leave them with a trusted adult whilst I went and searched.

If they were asleep my main concern would be with the missing one, and I'm not 100% sure that I would wake two 2 year olds up and run around with them. It would make searching a bit of a nightmare and much slower.

It's difficult. I'm not sure that it's possible to get to the bottom of the psyche of a parent in this situation.

I also agree with you, my main concern in Kate's situation would be the missing child, but I can't help find it unnatural that she would leave the other two, not when her first thought was that Madeleine had been abducted, as she claims. But no, you're right, it would take someone a lot more qualified than me (lol), or probably most of us on here, to get to the bottom of how someone 'should' react in this situation, if this is indeed possible. :)

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Guest on Tue 1 Sep - 12:51

Yes, it's a bit of a brick wall.

Both sides of the argument can claim her behaviour to back up their beliefs, because in actuality there are very few aspects of crisis behaviour that can be nailed down to either.

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Re: On Finding Madeleine not there

Post  Carolina on Wed 2 Sep - 9:37

Some people insist that panic explains the reaction of Kate McCann when she left her twins behind when she went to the Tapas bar.

I am sorry but I don't fall for that kind of excuse. For me there are no ifs, ands or buts. No mother who loves her children would have leave them alone, never, never, never. Her instinct would be to protect her children not to leave them in a possibly dangerous situation.

The fact that Kate McCann did so was significant enough for the PJ to ask her about it. It was one of the 48 questions she refused to answer. So, it obviously was not a reaction people would expect from a mother, it is not a normal one.

It can only be explained by the fact that the McCanns knew that the twins were not in danger. It seems to me that, in their panic (this is where panic does come into the picture) and lack of time, they were not able to fully prepare their abduction scenario and they overlooked the twins.

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Guest on Sun 6 Sep - 14:18

With reference to the prior posts about the phones/statements by C.Mitchell. Something that has always puzzled me about his statement of their lack of phones is that the majority of people who have a Mobile phone take it with them as a matter of course eg shopping/on trains/buses/visiting friends etc during the day, yet he would have us believe that a woman in a foreign country she was unfamiliar with,walking down a quiet poorly lit road at night alone didn't take her phone with her ??? Also she found Madeleine 'missing' from the flat &if she didn't take her phone to the Tapas bar it must have been in the flat where she was at that time when she discovered Madeleine' missing'. So why didn't she just phone Gerry ?? Best wishes Rose xx

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Re: on discovering madeleine not there

Post  Guest on Sun 6 Sep - 14:41

Hello Carolina, An excellent post. I agree with you, no mother would go against every one of their human and maternal instincts and further endanger her children by leaving them alone in a situation where a child has already disappeared from and an 'abductor ' may be lurking (Kate said she knew Madeleine had been 'abducted' straightaway, as Cuddle Cat was placed high up according to her ) As you say there was a certain amount of panic which is why the twins & the safety issues involved were overlooked. I also think they underestimated the fact that the general public would pick up on this anomaly re maternal instincts & Kates actions/reactions on that night. With all best wishes Rose xx

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