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We've let her down

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We've let her down

Post  Guest on Thu 1 Oct - 14:36

I apologise in advance if this is something that has already been discussed.. (newbie ;) )
I have tried to find information on this phrase. Is it true that is is used as "hospital slang" in Britain to indicate that a patient has gone too deep in sedation?
I am not English, so I wouldn't know..
I know it is one of the questions kate has never answered.. Who has more info?

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Re: We've let her down

Post  fishie on Thu 1 Oct - 14:42

Hello juulcy


I've never heard that expression used in that way,in fact it isn't the kind of thing said at all as it would be an admission of failure.I worked as a RGN (nurse) for 20+ years in English hospitals.

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Guest on Thu 1 Oct - 15:31

I've not heard that phrase as a slang reference to sedation.

'We've let her down...' is a strange thing to say when you claim that you're acting within the bounds of responsible parenting and 'checking regularly'.

There was much speculation that the phrase was misheard, and was actually 'we've let her drown...'

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Thu 1 Oct - 18:15

Just called a friend she is a "high independence nurse" nurse, she said she has never heard of it befor, she has been a nurse for 35 years.

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re We've let her down

Post  Fudge on Thu 1 Oct - 19:06

Travis40 wrote:I've not heard that phrase as a slang reference to sedation.

'We've let her down...' is a strange thing to say when you claim that you're acting within the bounds of responsible parenting and 'checking regularly'.

There was much speculation that the phrase was misheard, and was actually 'we've let her drown...'


I have not heard of that interpretation before, but it would not surprise me. After hearing Kate's mother said Madeleine had sleep problems, I always thought she could have woken and wandered out of the apartment and fallen into the pool. I also remember a family heard someone shouting Madeleine well before she was supposed to be found missing. I am convinced something happened to poor Madeleine much earlier than reported.

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Guest on Fri 2 Oct - 0:21

"we have let her down" is a common phrase used in England to mean we have failed to act properly towards her, i.e. by normal acceptable standards. Kate was at least being honest there. From the way it is reported she repeatedly said that I would say it was involuntary she just felt so distraught by what had been allowed to happen and no I do not mean allowing some stranger abductor into the place!

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Ollybelle on Fri 2 Oct - 8:07

In my view to let someone down means not to act appropriatley or not to do what was expected towards someone. If you promise someone or it is expected that you will do something - in Maddie case keep her from harm - and you do do fill that expectation, you let them down. I doubt Kate said 'we let her drown'.

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Re: We've let her down

Post  DavidA on Fri 2 Oct - 8:42

Fudge wrote:I also remember a family heard someone shouting Madeleine well before she was supposed to be found missing. I am convinced something happened to poor Madeleine much earlier than reported.

Do you happen to know where you got this from? Is it in the police statements?

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Christine on Fri 2 Oct - 10:46

DavidA wrote:
Fudge wrote:I also remember a family heard someone shouting Madeleine well before she was supposed to be found missing. I am convinced something happened to poor Madeleine much earlier than reported.

Do you happen to know where you got this from? Is it in the police statements?

This comes from Kazlux on the Maddie case files,all reports about her disappearing before 10pm/
2007: May 3, evening till may 4, morning - TIMELINE - based on statements from the case files and here and there (rare) a direct quote from newspaper articles, all witnesses other than the tapas 9.

21H20, Executive Chef A. E. G. F. P. heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared.
at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples;

Property manager B. J. J. W. heard about the news being investigated on the evening of 3rd May at about 21.30 – 21.40 from P.B., a Dutchman and owner of the Atlántico restaurant, who passed by the witness near the Baptista supermarket, in P da L and who asked for his help in searching for Madeleine. He then went to the place where the events occurred which was at about 21.45 – 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present. When questioned he said that the police had not yet arrived and that about 5 minutes had passed.

Dinner finished at around 21H45 and some minutes passed where waiter R. A.E D. L. O. looked towards the table but saw no one—his colleague told him that all the guests of that table left rapidly and abruptly. He remembers having heard shouts in the direction of the McCann apartment;

Between 21.30 and 22: Fitness instructor/Waiter J. T. R. S. went over to the table and joked with (Diane Webster): “They’ve left you alone?” She responded more of less with these words: “No, they went to see if the little girl was there.” I responded that I hoped they would find her somewhere in the apartment. At saying this, I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleine’s father, running to the pool and to the children’s play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty.

approx. 21.55 pm The Smith Family, (4 adults and 5 children, statements of Aiofe, Martin and Peter) are returning from 'Kelly's Bar', heading north, all spread out along the street and they pass a man walking down the middle of the street, carrying a child, with the head against his left shoulder and the arms hanging down alongside the body, in light colored or pink pyjamas, bare feet, pale skin typical of British and blond, shoulder-length hair; the girl is about 3-4 years old, about 1 metre tall. - The man is not dressed like a tourist; he's wearing cream or beige trousers, classic cut, of linen or cotton. He is white, 30-35 yrs, 1.70-1.80 meters tall, average build, physically fit, short, brown hair, with a face that looks tanned. (GA)

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Annabel on Fri 2 Oct - 10:55

I think Kate gave Madeleine a major blow to her head and brought her later to bed. Probably she went to bed with a headache by the blow. Then she was in a coma and probably deceased. Yes, indeed: "They've let her down!"

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Fudge on Fri 2 Oct - 10:56

Christine wrote:
DavidA wrote:
Fudge wrote:I also remember a family heard someone shouting Madeleine well before she was supposed to be found missing. I am convinced something happened to poor Madeleine much earlier than reported.

Do you happen to know where you got this from? Is it in the police statements?

This comes from Kazlux on the Maddie case files,all reports about her disappearing before 10pm/
2007: May 3, evening till may 4, morning - TIMELINE - based on statements from the case files and here and there (rare) a direct quote from newspaper articles, all witnesses other than the tapas 9.

21H20, Executive Chef A. E. G. F. P. heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared.
at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples;

Property manager B. J. J. W. heard about the news being investigated on the evening of 3rd May at about 21.30 – 21.40 from P.B., a Dutchman and owner of the Atlántico restaurant, who passed by the witness near the Baptista supermarket, in P da L and who asked for his help in searching for Madeleine. He then went to the place where the events occurred which was at about 21.45 – 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present. When questioned he said that the police had not yet arrived and that about 5 minutes had passed.

Dinner finished at around 21H45 and some minutes passed where waiter R. A.E D. L. O. looked towards the table but saw no one—his colleague told him that all the guests of that table left rapidly and abruptly. He remembers having heard shouts in the direction of the McCann apartment;

Between 21.30 and 22: Fitness instructor/Waiter J. T. R. S. went over to the table and joked with (Diane Webster): “They’ve left you alone?” She responded more of less with these words: “No, they went to see if the little girl was there.” I responded that I hoped they would find her somewhere in the apartment. At saying this, I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleine’s father, running to the pool and to the children’s play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty.

approx. 21.55 pm The Smith Family, (4 adults and 5 children, statements of Aiofe, Martin and Peter) are returning from 'Kelly's Bar', heading north, all spread out along the street and they pass a man walking down the middle of the street, carrying a child, with the head against his left shoulder and the arms hanging down alongside the body, in light colored or pink pyjamas, bare feet, pale skin typical of British and blond, shoulder-length hair; the girl is about 3-4 years old, about 1 metre tall. - The man is not dressed like a tourist; he's wearing cream or beige trousers, classic cut, of linen or cotton. He is white, 30-35 yrs, 1.70-1.80 meters tall, average build, physically fit, short, brown hair, with a face that looks tanned. (GA)


Thanks Christine for the above, I have been trying to find the one I remember, which was a couple who heard someone shouting Madeleine at I think about 9-15pm. I am useless at searching but will keep trying.

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Re: We've let her down

Post  littlepixie on Fri 2 Oct - 10:57

It was the Carpenters I think

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Guest on Fri 2 Oct - 11:05

Thank you littlpixie I was really trying to remember their name! I think it was Mrs Carpenter who particularly thinks she heard faint calling Maddie, Maddie around 9.30 ish. It made me think Kate made her check earlier on thought Maddie had gone out of the open patio door but Gerry had already gotten rid of her and Kate was not, at first involved in that, but that is just another variation on a theme. Kate gives the impression since a few days post Maddie disappearance she is very much involved! She did seem genuinely distraught at first but that soon changed, I have often felt after Gerry saying for god's sake pull yourself together woman you will make us look guilty. Odd really because Kate's initial demeanour was normal and what people expected. It was when they started laughing and jogging, Gerry's perverse view of being normal perhaps that we all thought, no way!

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Annabel on Fri 2 Oct - 11:12

The Smith sighting is only mentioned once in 57 pages and is dismissed with just one sentence that is a grave falsification imo. The "alibi" given to Gerry McCann is solely based on the witness statements of his Tapas friends. Other witnesses that place the occurences of May 3rd in a different timeframe are not even mentioned in the report:

Stephen Carpenter's wife heard somebody call "Madeleine, Madeleine" at around 21:15-21:30

The main chef from the Ocean Club places the turmoil at the Tapas Bar at 21:20

A property manager knew about the disappearance of a child at around 21:30-21:40

Given this alternative timeline, Gerry might very well have been the person seen by Mr. Smith and a reconstruction might have proven this. The main witness was never questioned again AFTER he recognized Gerry because of a falsified statement by the PJ, claiming Gerry was definitely at the table at that time.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic140.html

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Guest on Fri 2 Oct - 11:19

I think the case was just politely dumped by the PJ whilst saying as little as possible because it was realised the McCanns were responsible, there was definitely no stranger abduction for the PJ to prosecute, and it was going to be left to UK to continue to battle with a difficult investigation of proving the guilt of the McCanns and trying to find Maddie, with Pt help of course.

In terms of jurisdiction, if this was a stranger abduction only the Portuguese Police could investigate and prosecute the perpetrator but if this was a homicide or sex offending/kidnapping by the McCanns and other British UK would have jurisdiction. That is why the PJ will not re-open this case but Gerry suggests he would like them to, I bet he would, because that would mean he gets them to accept one of his barmy theories. But Gerry needs to remember one simple thing, the Portuguese Police are not the third world stupid idiots he thought they were going to be!!

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Fudge on Fri 2 Oct - 12:35

Thanks all for remembering it was the Carpenters and finding the report.

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Fri 2 Oct - 12:56

Viv, do you still believe that the PJ will never re-open the case, imo I think that the PJ are quietly working with this case still
If Gerry feels confident that this case will never be re-opened, then imo he is in for a shock.

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Fudge on Fri 2 Oct - 13:10

LOTV

I think you just might be right

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Lillyofthevalley on Fri 2 Oct - 13:15

Fudge Im 99% sure

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Fudge on Fri 2 Oct - 13:38

LOTV

I like those odds

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Dimsie on Fri 2 Oct - 13:39

I certainly hope the case will be reopened eventually, though what it'll take to get to that point I've no idea.

As for the 'We've let her down', it sounds an odd thing to say, IMO. Yes, they HAD let her down, that's true enough, but it just sounds a strange form of words to say at that time. It's more like something someone would say at a later stage, when going over the whole thing in their mind and when they're sure something dreadful has happened. Since, regardless of what they say, there's absolutely no way they could have known at that stage that Madeleine was abducted, then why the rather theatrical 'We've let her down'? Madeleine might have turned up 10 minutes later, having enjoyed herself hiding somewhere and listening to them all calling for her. I'm not saying she WOULD have done that; IMO a child out at night by herself would be very frightened, but they must have thought she'd be happy enough to leave the apartment on her own or they wouldn't have left a door open for her to do this if she woke up. Definitely that 'we've let her down' was a strange thing to say.

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Lilemor on Fri 2 Oct - 14:45

Annabel wrote:I think Kate gave Madeleine a major blow to her head and brought her later to bed. Probably she went to bed with a headache by the blow. Then she was in a coma and probably deceased. Yes, indeed: "They've let her down!"


A blow to her head.
Could be. And often it does happen then that the injured person must vomit.
Did not one of the tapas group say that a child did vomit?
The vomit... There could be sth with vomit.

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as above

Post  halfamo on Fri 2 Oct - 14:57

Annabel wrote:I think Kate gave Madeleine a major blow to her head and brought her later to bed. Probably she went to bed with a headache by the blow. Then she was in a coma and probably deceased. Yes, indeed: "They've let her down!"

This has always been my thoughts also ,i think Madeleine was a typical three year old ,more than capable of a tantrum .Then we have a mother who IMO is maybe on a short fuse .A child who was slapped harder than intended.

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Guest on Fri 2 Oct - 17:01

Easily done, I remember being in a precinct years ago and one kid was playing up. The mother slapped him and his head bounced off the brick wall behind him. The sound of contact seemed to echo and the place lulled into silence.

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Re: We've let her down

Post  Guest on Sat 3 Oct - 20:14

Lillyofthevalley wrote:Viv, do you still believe that the PJ will never re-open the case, imo I think that the PJ are quietly working with this case still
If Gerry feels confident that this case will never be re-opened, then imo he is in for a shock.


Hiya Lilly,

The PJ thoroughly investigated this case and if there was any possibility that it was a stranger who abducted Madeleine they would have to re-open the case because that would mean the crime was entirely within their jurisdiction, not the UK.

But I believe that Maddie was not abducted by a stranger, whatever happened to her, was arranged by her own parents. That means that they committed a very serious offence against Madeleine and that means it is up to the British Police to prosecute them for that. And the British Police have never closed their file. So getting justice means the British Police getting a breakthrough in the evidence, like Jane Tanner starting to tell the truth for a change or finding Madeleine, dead or alive. There are numerous other possibilities including of course the financial dealings of the McCanns and the contacts they have with others.

I think it is extremely likely that the Portuguese Police continue to work closely with the British Police to bring the McCanns and others to justice. I believe the Spanish Police have also been very much involved in that. We are all members of the EU and that positively requires that we all work together to bring criminals to justice. That is precisely what European countries will be doing on this case, but at the end of the day, Kate and Gerry will be brought to trial in England and Wales.

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Re: We've let her down

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