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the pope

Post  4timesanan on Sun 10 Jan - 15:00

someone has asked me this, how easy is it to get an audience the pope?..anyone have a clue

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Re: the pope

Post  Guest on Sun 10 Jan - 15:02

Clarence Mitchell can arange one !!

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Re: the pope

Post  Dimsie on Sun 10 Jan - 15:07

Very difficult, I believe, and I know several people personally who were extremely annoyed at how the McCanns had this arranged for them so easily. After all, on what grounds did they get this honour conferred on them? They'd gone out at night, leaving their children home alone in an unlocked apartment, one child was missing ... and they get the much-coveted honour of meeting the Pople? Very odd indeed. Though it seems the Vatican maybe didn't stay on side very long afterwards, as they removed the reference to the disappearance from their website.

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Re: the pope

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 10 Jan - 16:04

On the day the McCanns kissed the Pope's ring, there were people representing homeless children in Brazil, who never made it into the line-up.

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Re: the pope

Post  Guest on Sun 10 Jan - 16:52

Actually it isn't difficult to get into the crowd for one of the audiences - but you need to book well in advance.

Getting in the front row for a personal blessing - or even getting into the crowd at short notice isn't as simple but can be done relatively easily so long as you have a tame Archbishop or Cardinal to arrange it for you.

Mitchell may have used contacts but his personal remit does NOT stretch to organising that kind of thing. It would have been Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor (a prelate with an excellent understanding of Roman procedures) or someone of that level who spoke to Archbishop Harvey in Rome to arrange the McCann trip.

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Re: the pope

Post  T4two on Sun 10 Jan - 17:16

jjp wrote:Actually it isn't difficult to get into the crowd for one of the audiences - but you need to book well in advance.

Getting in the front row for a personal blessing - or even getting into the crowd at short notice isn't as simple but can be done relatively easily so long as you have a tame Archbishop or Cardinal to arrange it for you.

Mitchell may have used contacts but his personal remit does NOT stretch to organising that kind of thing. It would have been Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor (a prelate with an excellent understanding of Roman procedures) or someone of that level who spoke to Archbishop Harvey in Rome to arrange the McCann trip.

Indeed it was to be sure

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Re: the pope

Post  Guest on Sun 10 Jan - 17:35

The dress code for women is that they dress completely in black and cover their heads. Kate did neither. Clearly the rules that apply to normal mortals, do not apply to the McScum. Even Camilla knew how to dress properly when she met the Pope.

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Re: the pope

Post  Guest on Sun 10 Jan - 18:18

Dress is formal - black recommended - but wearing something on the head is not necessary outdoors and only worn by some these days even indoors.

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Re: the pope

Post  4timesanan on Sun 10 Jan - 18:26

ta for reply's..
the video of kate meeting the pope..she takes a deep breath that looks to me like relief...

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Re: the pope

Post  ann_chovey on Sun 10 Jan - 18:33

4timesanan wrote:someone has asked me this, how easy is it to get an audience the pope?..anyone have a clue

A private audience, probably not that easy, the McCanns were in the 'crowd scene' and it was arranged when Clarence lobbied Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor.

you can get one on-line......

http://www.viator.com/Rome/d511/pope-tours?pref=02&aid=g2035

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Re: the pope

Post  tanszi on Sun 10 Jan - 18:40

not nit picking, i like many others saw the video, i didnt realise it was a private audience.

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Re: the pope

Post  ann_chovey on Sun 10 Jan - 18:41

from Wiki......

Answer
Short of being a cardinal, archbishop, or bishop, or a member of the pope's staff, a private audience with the Pope normally requires a request or letter of introduction from one's bishop and the acceptance of the invitation by the pope or the pope's staff. My understanding is that this was the general policy during the reign of Pope John Paul II.

When I met John Paul II it was in the context of his morning Mass at the Apostolic Palace followed by a brief audience with all of the attendees afterwards. (Even though we were not 1-on-1 with the pope, I believe this is considered a 'private' audience as the meeting did not take place at, for example, the 'public' Wednesday audience.) I was among a group of seminarians who had asked our bishop to write a letter some 3-4 months before our trip. I seem to remember that in the letter we needed to indicate where we were staying in Rome (phone number), so that we could be reached if/when we were chosen to come over. The evening of our last night in Rome, we were called at the hotel and told to be at the bronze doors at 6:30am. I seem to remember that we needed to have our passports and that there was a security screen of some type. After about 1/2 hour - 45 minutes, we were lead up several grand stairways, through a courtyard, up some more stairs, and through the palace to the ante-room at the papal apartment. There we vested for Mass and were given some basic protocol instructions by Msgr. Dziwisz. We seminarians were handed some mimeographed books (marked "English"?) and asked to sing at the Mass. (The music was not very good, as I recall... shockingly lousy 70's/80's stuff, surprisingly.) The papal photographer and Swiss Guards are present at all times.

No doubt, there is a dress code, but all I know is that bishops/priests and seminarians were expected to be dressed in clerical dress appropriate to their rank. It seemed everyone else was wearing black business attire (it looked like a Blues Brothers convention or a mob movie, I am not sure). I don't remember if the women were veiled, although I seem to remember there was some protocol about that.

While we were there as "pilgrims", I suppose, "business" meetings with the pope presumably follow the same basic protocol for arranging them... a letter from your bishop and an invitation from the pope's staff. When he was healthy, JP2 was reported to be in constant motion, meeting with people all day long, including at meals.

My understanding is that Pope Benedict XVI does not typically invite visitors and pilgrims to his morning Mass as John Paul II did, and my impression from various news reports is that he does not hold nearly as many "business" meetings as his predecessor did, either.

Benedict seems much more an introvert, preferring to allow more 'business' to take place at the hands of his underlings... this is the good practice of 'subsidiarity' within an organization. Of note, most 'business' can and should be done with the various dicasteries, commissions, and offices of the Vatican and need not go directly to the pope. A wise piece of advice would be to make sure that any 'business' take place at the lowest point possible in the 'chain of command' before asking to see the pope.

The only meetings which the pope is required to have, it would seem, are meetings with the worlds' bishops every 5 years, called "ad limina" visits. The various bishops of the world are on a rotation where they come at 5 year intervals. At these meetings, a group of bishops across a territory come to Rome and meet the pope and the various offices of the Vatican. At some point, each bishop gets a small bit of time (10? 15? minutes at least) to tell the pope about his diocese and the work going on there.

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Re: the pope

Post  MaryB on Sun 10 Jan - 19:10

I read that the McCanns didn't actually have an audience with the Pope. They were pushed to the front of the crowd. And the Pope was told of the disappearance of Madeleine. So it was not strictly speaking an audience with the Pope. And in any case no devout Catholic would ever have IVF. It is called an evil in a document on the subject from the Vatican. (Just for information. I am not judging.)

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Re: the pope

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 10 Jan - 19:14

MaryB wrote:I read that the McCanns didn't actually have an audience with the Pope. They were pushed to the front of the crowd. And the Pope was told of the disappearance of Madeleine. So it was not strictly speaking an audience with the Pope. And in any case no devout Catholic would ever have IVF. It is called an evil in a document on the subject from the Vatican. (Just for information. I am not judging.)

There's nothing devout about them if they think that having faith is popping into a church for 10 minutes in their busy day to pray.

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Re: the pope

Post  Guest on Sun 10 Jan - 19:23

The 'meeting' which the McCanns had with the Pope was a perfectly normal one. When you apply online for a ticket for the open audience you are recommended to get there as early as possible. The most popular positions are at the front or along the aisles where the Pope will pass. However, those who know the routine will not aim at the front but at the side aisles as there will almost always be 'special' guests brought and placed in front of you if you are at the front and you won't have any say in the matter. That is how the McCanns were placed in the front. Vatican personnel placed them there at the request of the Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster or someone else who had words with the Archbishop responsible for the arrangements. Being placed at the front counts as a 'private audience' in some circles though it is far from private.

I have personally been in the crowd on a number of occasions and though often early have never been able to secure a front line position. These are effectively reserved for those who have lobbied and been accorded the privilege.

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Re: the pope

Post  the one and only big_l on Sun 10 Jan - 21:16

did gerry not get preferntial treatment for his work with pilkington test tubes ?

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Re: the pope

Post  AnnaEsse on Sun 10 Jan - 21:19

the one and only big_l wrote:did gerry not get preferntial treatment for his work with pilkington test tubes ?

Do you think he was trying out the strengthened, UV proof, burglar-proof glass?

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Re: the pope

Post  the one and only big_l on Sun 10 Jan - 21:21

AnnaEsse wrote:
the one and only big_l wrote:did gerry not get preferntial treatment for his work with pilkington test tubes ?

Do you think he was trying out the strengthened, UV proof, burglar-proof glass?

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Re: the pope

Post  lynn on Mon 11 Jan - 9:08

The Mcs didn't have a proper audience with the Pople like Camilla did, they were in the line up. Bet they wanted the full deal though and had to settle for less. Perhaps some cash changed hands. The Pope just sees those who are presented and probably doesn't know anything much about them. It is who you know and not what you know in all churches!

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Re: the pope

Post  Ang on Tue 12 Jan - 21:43

This is how I remember it. Clarence Mitchell arranged it with Cardinal Cormack Murphy O'Connor He said so when he was sitting on a train going somewhere. It actually was not a private audience, it was the public address but they actually made it to the front because of their influence. GMc kissed the Pope's ring but Kate Mc did not. What she did was a bit odd - she handed the Pope to bless a picture of Madeleine the wrong way up so that the picture of Madeleine was facing her - not the Pope. It was also reported that a butterfly landed on Kate's head which apparently is symbolic of someone who had passed and were returning to say the person was alright (which in this case of course is Madeleine).

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Re: the pope

Post  Guest on Tue 12 Jan - 21:54

I think your memory serves you well Ang. That is how I recall it right down to the detail of the butterfly, though I never actually saw that bit, only read about it.

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Re: the pope

Post  MaryB on Tue 12 Jan - 22:10

lynn wrote:The Mcs didn't have a proper audience with the Pople like Camilla did, they were in the line up. Bet they wanted the full deal though and had to settle for less. Perhaps some cash changed hands. The Pope just sees those who are presented and probably doesn't know anything much about them. It is who you know and not what you know in all churches!

I wonder what St Peter will have to say to them. When they reach those pearly gates.

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Re: the pope

Post  Alfiefinn on Tue 12 Jan - 22:11

Hopefully, he'll tell them to get downstairs.

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