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10th February in court

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  MaryB on Sun 7 Feb - 19:02

Are we expecting to hear anything new on Wednesday. I wonder why it was adjourned for a few weeks.

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  Alfiefinn on Sun 7 Feb - 19:25

I too will be waiting with bated breath to see what (if anything) is reported on Wednesday. I have made sure I haven't committed to anything so I can be about.

I so hope we get twitter reports again

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  lea on Sun 7 Feb - 19:57

Alfiefinn wrote:I too will be waiting with bated breath to see what (if anything) is reported on Wednesday. I have made sure I haven't committed to anything so I can be about.

I so hope we get twitter reports again

so do i,it made my day last time,lol

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  Alfiefinn on Sun 7 Feb - 19:58

Hi lea

I know, it was right exciting - I'm hoping for more of the same - especially if the McCanns return

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  lea on Sun 7 Feb - 20:01

Alfiefinn wrote:Hi lea

I know, it was right exciting - I'm hoping for more of the same - especially if the McCanns return

Alfiefinn,hope the mccans do return,it wont be the same,
not being able to see red faced gerry shouting at the reporters again,lol

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  Alfiefinn on Sun 7 Feb - 20:02

Dearest Gerry - talking like his pants were too tight and spluttering in rage at journalists. I shall never forget the sight (much as I may like to)

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  jay2001 on Sun 7 Feb - 20:07

Even if the Mcs don't go I hope Sky cover the event, not the twisting BBC. But even if Jondipaulo doesn't twitter I'm sure the Portuguese guy will. Sorry forgot his name - think it's Carvahlo or something like that.

Like Mary I think it's strange the case was adjourned for a few weeks, but as long as justice is served I'll be happy. I'm worried though that too many people have too much to lose and that the judge may not find in Sr Amaral's favour. It doesn't seem possible that she could carry on to the full libel trial, but I've been disappointed so many times in this case.

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  Alfiefinn on Sun 7 Feb - 20:10

I know what you mean jay, but hope springs eternal, doesn't it? Maybe someday soon the right side will win.

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  jay2001 on Sun 7 Feb - 20:15

Thanks Alfie - let's hope this time next week we've got some positive news/vibes from the hearing.

If it wasn't for these forums I think I'd've thrown the towel in long ago!

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  lea on Sun 7 Feb - 20:55

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE EVERYTHING TO HAND THEN YOU WONT MISS A TWEET,
sorry left caps lock on,
flask,chocolate and sandwiches etc,

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  Alfiefinn on Sun 7 Feb - 20:57

lea, don't forget the bucket in case nature calls

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  lea on Sun 7 Feb - 21:04

Alfiefinn wrote:lea, don't forget the bucket in case nature calls

dont think i will go that far alfie lol

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  dumouchelwolf on Sun 7 Feb - 21:52

lea wrote:MAKE SURE YOU HAVE EVERYTHING TO HAND THEN YOU WONT MISS A TWEET,
sorry left caps lock on,
flask,chocolate and sandwiches etc,

Good idea

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  Guest on Mon 8 Feb - 0:10

I had a dig around for some Flight prices and times to Lisbon, unfortunatly, I didn't find any thing that "tweaked my radar" enough to book them.

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  fred on Mon 8 Feb - 9:26

Laffin Assasin wrote:I had a dig around for some Flight prices and times to Lisbon, unfortunatly, I didn't find any thing that "tweaked my radar" enough to book them.

Sleasyjet sometimes are o.k. you won't need to pay for a suitcase, if you are only going for a couple of days.

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  Dimsie on Mon 8 Feb - 10:37

It really will be interesting to see if the McCanns find time yet again to go to Portugal in the pursuit of book-banning (and ultimately money from the author the banned book), yet once again find no time to go searching for their daughter in the area indicated by their chief private investigator. Surely the media can see something so plainly and unashamedly done, time after time? Let's make it easy for them -

FACTS: FOR ANY MEDIA TYPES ( ) READING HERE -

Their chief PI says their daughter is being held in Portugal; they go to Portugal to look for ... er ... um ... well, what?

Of course, they could yet show how committed they are to the 'search' and may go to comb that lawless region for any sign of their daughter. After all, Dave Edgar did spell out what needed to be done search-wise - 'try and reach as much of that mountainous region outside the resort as we can.'

I'm sure Dave will be glad of all the help he can get. It's only a thought of mine, but a bit of help with the search would probably be more useful than a night of partying and polluting the air with risky sky lanterns.

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  lea on Mon 8 Feb - 10:45

Dimsie wrote:It really will be interesting to see if the McCanns find time yet again to go to Portugal in the pursuit of book-banning (and ultimately money from the author the banned book), yet once again find no time to go searching for their daughter in the area indicated by their chief private investigator. Surely the media can see something so plainly and unashamedly done, time after time? Let's make it easy for them -

FACTS: FOR ANY MEDIA TYPES ( ) READING HERE -

Their chief PI says their daughter is being held in Portugal; they go to Portugal to look for ... er ... um ... well, what?

Of course, they could yet show how committed they are to the 'search' and may go to comb that lawless region for any sign of their daughter. After all, Dave Edgar did spell out what needed to be done search-wise - 'try and reach as much of that mountainous region outside the resort as we can.'

I'm sure Dave will be glad of all the help he can get. It's only a thought of mine, but a bit of help with the search would probably be more useful than a night of partying and polluting the air with risky sky lanterns.

this is why nobody beleives them,
their private plods come out with loads of crap and still the mccmucks dont bother searching,
they are only interested in suing people which try and defames them,lol
this proves their private plods are telling porkies.
the mccmucks dont seem to be taking them seriously.

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Wednesday the 10th/Blacksmith

Post  Annabel on Mon 8 Feb - 14:43

Wednesday the 10th






















We had planned to bring our own “twin tracks” – current events and the background to the case – together by this Wednesday but the skeletons are still being shovelled out of the Team McCann cupboard, so not quite. Still, it’s unlikely that there’ll be a verdict then so perhaps we’ll have convergence by judgement day.

Gradually the issues at the heart of the case, which are bigger than Goncalo Amaral or any other individual, have become clearer. They will remain, like unhealed wounds, until one day, somewhere, a full libel case reaches the courts.

Until then we have the present hearing.

The McCanns’ legal team have claimed that Amaral’s theory of death in 5A reflects only his own false assumptions. Looking at the investigation as a whole, says the lawyer Duarte, rather than merely the early stages before Amaral was removed, his conclusions are clearly not justified by the investigation evidence. Therefore his repetition of the claim is an outrageous libel and a breach of their rights under Portuguese law.

How to decide the truth? The evidence lies, of course, in the case papers. But to go through them, and the required witness clarifications, would amount to a full-scale trial covering months. The McCanns’ case is that even if this were practical – and the costs would be colossal - such an effort would take too long: the damage caused by Amaral’s “thesis” has to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

They claimed, therefore, that the key evidence should be the famous archiving dispatch by the prosecutors, which can be taken as a factual and unarguable summary of the entire investigation. The relevant passages concern, firstly, "the absence of evidence for any involvement of the parents in a serious crime", which, states the document, “seems to result from the objective circumstances of them not being inside the apartment when she disappeared and from their normal behaviour until the disappearance and afterwards.”
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And, secondly, there is the conclusion: that the entire investigation had produced no evidence at all to formulate any intelligible theory as to what had happened and no evidence to decide whether the child is alive or dead.

Thus, the parents claim, and have claimed repeatedly, the authoritative summary of the whole investigation does not support Amaral’s claim that the child is definitely dead and, as a matter of simple fact, “clears” them. Judgement should, therefore, be given against Amaral and the handcuffs of the injunction remain in place.

On the other side lies the fact that the report explicitly refuses to “clear” them. In a long section on the vexed question of the inconsistencies in the Tapas 9’s version of events, and the need for a reconstruction of their movements to clarify them, it says quite clearly that after all nine were requested to attend,

“nevertheless, despite national authorities taking all measures to render their trip to Portugal viable and after the many doubts that they raised about the necessity and opportunity of their trip were clarified several times, they chose not to attend, for unknown motives, which rendered the [attempted reconstruction ] impractical.”

“We believe,” adds the report, “that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were made arguidos: their innocence regarding the fateful event. The investigation was also disturbed, because these facts remain to be clarified.”

So that is what this judge, and no doubt future judges, will have to confront.

So far two of the McCann claims have been shown to be untrue and go out of the window, unless the judge is both deaf and blind. Factually, there is no “clearance” for the parents in the report, and therefore in the investigation. Secondly the belief in “the involvement” of the McCanns was not Amaral’s alone but that of the whole investigative team, as the police testified. A third claim that the document does not support Amaral’s belief that the child is dead is true. The prosecutors say that the chances are 50/50 and one of them repeated it in court.

But they say that on the basis of an incomplete, or as the prosecutors describe it, a "disturbed", not just archived, investigation. The very people seeking the protection of the Portuguese justice system refused to co-operate with that system when the investigation took place and, absurdly, remain beyond its reach while sitting in the courtroom! Leaving this conflict of rights and responsibilities aside, the question for the judge, which we hope Goncalo Amaral’s lawyers will point out, is this: if they and the seven other key witnesses had agreed to co-operate would the report still say the same things?

No. Purely as a matter of fact it cannot. The entire reconstruction section is out. The claim that the parents lost their chance to show their innocence is out. And the conclusions arising from their questioning would have to be incorporated into the investigation and therefore the summary’s conclusions would have to take a different form, one way or the other.
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Would the chances of the child still be, like Schrodinger's cat, an undecidable 50/50? We don't know, because the people claiming the protection of the law will not let us know, even though they were free to do so. So the claim that the archiving summary decides matters of fact is very moot indeed.

Those are the questions that the judge will have to consider. And more judges in the future. It looks like the lawyers are going to be raking it in for a very long time to come.
Posted by john blacksmith at 05:38

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  Carolina on Mon 8 Feb - 16:06

Surely the final dispatch of the PP, which by the way, he did not sign, is his opinion based on the investigation and is no more valid than the report made by Tavares de Almeida or the book by GA. Another PP could have arrived at a completely different conclusion. So, it all comes down to opinions! The report of the PP is in no way the final word on the case and the only way that can be done is by reopening it.

It should be pointed out that after GA was taken off of the case, nothing was really done in investigating the case and surely it is obvious that no new evidence was uncovered to change the course of the investigation and the conclusions arrived at in September 2007. Nothing was uncovered to exonerate the McCanns and the lifting their arguido status was a purely a political decision and not a result of the investigation.

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Re: 10th February in court

Post  Claudia79 on Mon 8 Feb - 17:12

Carolina wrote:Surely the final dispatch of the PP, which by the way, he did not sign, is his opinion based on the investigation and is no more valid than the report made by Tavares de Almeida or the book by GA. Another PP could have arrived at a completely different conclusion. So, it all comes down to opinions! The report of the PP is in no way the final word on the case and the only way that can be done is by reopening it.

It should be pointed out that after GA was taken off of the case, nothing was really done in investigating the case and surely it is obvious that no new evidence was uncovered to change the course of the investigation and the conclusions arrived at in September 2007. Nothing was uncovered to exonerate the McCanns and the lifting their arguido status was a purely a political decision and not a result of the investigation.

There was no investigation after GA was taken from the case. Which was why he was taken off the case. So no more investigation was done.

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Re: 10th February in court

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