Case Files discussions

jjp wrote:Could they have been flying TO Glasgow?

Could this have been the private trip to PDL?

If it is surely they would have chosen to go at half term so they didn't havw to leave the twins ,or maybe they have no choice !!Of course they could have just arrived back and that makes me think of a post saying that they had all been called to go back in Oct !

Excellent point there viv!

Christine wrote:

viv wrote:It seems rather odd that Mr Smith says he saw Gerry just before ten, Russell gets back to the dining table just before ten, and Kate supposedly raises the alarm at 10. Too many coincidences for me. In real life without any pre planning you do not get such immaculate coincidences of time. Given I feel Gerry is quite a control freak, I think he would have wanted things to go off like clockwork. Just to dissuade us a little from that idea, he gets his paid mouthpiece who now seems to have fell out of favour to tell us they had no mobiles and watches. That makes it even more extraordinary I never did see Gerry without a watch on, and I saw him even standing in the sea with his trusty mobile

Viv, IMO Gerry tried to get Maddie out of the apartment when he bumped in to Jeremy Wilkins. He put Maddie in the bushes (hence the dogs cadaver smell), talked to Wilkins, and took Maddie back in the apartment when Wilkins was out of sight. I think the original plan was to get rid of the body around 9. Plans had to be changed then, but Jane Tanner didn't know that. Maybe that's when the first search started, but was quickly silenced.

Interesting thread

Just thought I'd throw this in here as you've made reference to the EVRD dog detecting something in the garden area / flower bed .

With respect to the garden area of apartment 5A, tourist resort "OCEAN CLUB", Praia da Luz, Lagos:

- 1 labelled envelope with delivery note n' 420D/2007-CR/L:
Vestigio:
Vg25 - "Sundry head-hair" - 11 hairs.

1 Garden Ocean(Vg25

The GBSF were responsible for the analysis of hair samples .

The sample / evidence - ( 1 labelled envelope with delivery note n° 420D/2007-CR/L: ) ref. Vg25 , 11 hairs , found in the garden area of Apt5A appear to have disappeared just like Madeleine !!! There is no other reference to this sample that I can find in the files.
They also took samples of the bush / shrubbery for analysis .

Hi everybody, glad to see the files are encouraging discussion.

I know studying them is a massive undertaking, but just the bits I have glanced through while posting them here has convinced me that the answer to this puzzle lies within those files. It might not lead us to where the body of Madeleine is, but it will make a convincing case for how she died and who covered it up.
Once those two facts have been established the solution will follow

justagrannynow wrote:Hi everybody, glad to see the files are encouraging discussion.

I know studying them is a massive undertaking, but just the bits I have glanced through while posting them here has convinced me that the answer to this puzzle lies within those files. It might not lead us to where the body of Madeleine is, but it will make a convincing case for how she died and who covered it up.
Once those two facts have been established the solution will follow

Hi justgrannynow ,

I think your quite right , there is a lot of information contained in the files which when looked at carefully paints a pretty clear picture and it's time all this was brought out into the open . It's also interesting to discover what is there and what is missing . There are also answers I believe in things like the Genetic and Biological Forensic Services report though it's not easy to understand , the sample and results of those 11 hairs found in the garden area / flowerbed for example , if the results are missing as I can't seem to find them anywhere yet , it could be the proof that a body was indeed in that location , though how it could have gotten there is still a mystery and a matter of speculation , along with the EVRD's alert on the Veranda itself outside the parents bedroom .

Does anyone know of any reference anywhere to Apt 5A's safety railings on the Veranda being removed ? There is a photo showing that they were removed at some point , perhaps for forensic testing ? If I knew how to post one here I would show you .

On the 31 July 2007 'Eddie' The Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog ( E.V.R.D.) searched the grounds of Aptartmant 5A and signalled to a scent in the garden area / flowerbed directly underneath the Veranda .

Between 21h49 and 22h00, in the garden adjacent to apartment 5A, accessible from by way of the veranada and steps, the cadaver dog alerted in a garden-bed directly below the veranda.

As a result of Eddies alert in this area a Forensics team appear to have taken samples on 1st Aug. from the shrubbery and fibres from that area as well as 11 hairs found in that spot .

The Genetic and Biological Forensic Service appear to have sent this sample , - 1 labelled envelope with delivery note n' 420D/2007-CR/L:
Vestigio: ( Vg25 ) - "Sundry head-hair" - 11 hairs , along with the samples of shrubbery and fibres to the FSS for analysis ...


Tests for blood were done on the shrubbery and fibres and nothing was found . What the fibres were and whether they were compared to any other know reference samples does not appear to have been done , or if so I have yet to come across them .

The capillary roots of the 11 hairs found in the garden area directly underneath the veranda of Apt 5a were damaged ( not good quality ) so a DNA test was not carried out , it appears no further analysis of these hairs were done , no Morphology analysis of the hairs or mtDNA tests done to try and determine who they may have belonged to .

It is to be hoped that these hairs were not the last remaining traces of Madeleine Beth McCann !


01 August 2007
2. Bushes from the garden of apartment 5 A, OC.
Conditioned and to preserved at SPL:
3. Fibres.
4. Hairs.
...

following the examination carried out by a British specialist dog team. Delivery note no. 286/2007 –CR/L):
21. Fragments of bushes.
There follow photographs of the outside of the apartment from where trace evidence was recovered as well as the detail thereof.
After the above there proceeded the collection of several branches of the climbing
plant in the garden they having been encased in a paper package referenced as trace evidence number 21 and of possible fibres on a wall of the apartment garden, next to the climbing plant, using six Crystal-Tabs appropriate for this they having been referenced as trace evidence number 26.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z10/ ... II3200.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z10/ ... II3201.jpg

Photos 17 through 19: Pictures of the garden area from which the above evidence was collected.
Conclusions:
On 1 August 2007 the following trace evidence was collected from [the apartment and garden] as better described in the report:
[the list of collected items is repeated] ....

From John R Lowe's report -" 286/2007-CRL (21) Fragments of bush/shrubbery
Insofar as it relates to this sample, the examination performed was aimed at the detection of the possible presence of blood, no trace thereof having been found. Particles from the superficial surface layer were recovered and preserved in a way similar to that of hairs and fibres. In my opinion, the capillary roots were not good quality as they were not adequate to perform DNA profile tests. " ...

what a fascinating report, I have not seen this before.

I do recall Rebelo and his men in October 2007 testing the weight of the verandah and apparently there is a service void underneath which could clearly have been a hiding place for a child's body. Particularly, if, as some think and I tend to agree it is certainly possible, Gerry intended to remove the body just after nine, I recall Claudia saying that is when it goes really dark in May. But as he came out he noted Wilkins, so quickly dumped the body under there and brazenly went out to chat to Wilkins.

But the other striking picture that this report seems to be saying to me is there is a climbing plant going up the wall, is it near a window, did Madeleine climb out of the window and try to climb down the plant? They were looking for blood and fibres on the wall by this plant suggesting to me anyway ( I may well be wrong) they thought Maddie might have fell off the plant scraped on the wall and fell down to disaster. I recall a report a long time ago, the police thought she may have suffered a catasrophic head injury on the steps. I am struggling with this in my mind's eye, not knowing the exact geography, but I wonder.

My eldest son Martin in recent years admitted to me that whilst my husband and I were watching TV at the front room end of a large through lounge he and his little brother used to climb out of the upstairs bedroom window, down the drainpipe and Martin would actually lean across the rear dining room window from the drainpipe to view me and my husband watching TV to make sure the coast was clear. They could have fell down onto the slabbed yard and suffered a catastrophic injury. The younger one, Neville would have only been about four or five at the time I believe. I was horrified when I found out, they used to go up the garden, climb over the wall and go off onto the hillies where they liked to play, a wild area, frogs, squirrels owls etc.

I just wonder if that is what happened to Madeleine, this report makes it look a possibility to me. The McCanns would have realised they would have been charged with gross negligence manslaughter, four year olds do things like this, even when their parents are right there!

Photon wrote:

Laffin Assasin wrote:

laci wrote:Sorry to interupt someone has just twitted mccanns spotted at glasgow airport? Dont know how true it is

Has anyone confirmed this, or have you got a link ?

Can some one check what flights were available at the time this was posted ?

Captured at 8am -> tweeted 7pm 1st Nov

Chartered flights include Antalya, Arrecife, Faro, Arrecife, Monastir, Rovaniemi, Sharm el Sheikh, Tenerife. Turin

Scheduled more problematic - does not fly to East Midlands; Faro departs 17.45; Dublin 15.25; Manchester 18.35 and others........

Oh lol, I flew out to Sharm el sheik on Mon 2 November, do you think the McCanns were chasing me