Pat Brown

MaryB wrote:One thing I thought didn't make sense was this. At an interview quite recently last year I think Kate McCann said when she went to the apartment for her check the door of the bedroom wasn't at the same angle as they had left it. Now there was two other checks made on the children so why would the angle of the door be the same as they had left it when the went out initially. Can't think why some of those discrepancies have not been picked up by the police.

MaryB wrote:One thing I thought didn't make sense was this. At an interview quite recently last year I think Kate McCann said when she went to the apartment for her check the door of the bedroom wasn't at the same angle as they had left it. Now there was two other checks made on the children so why would the angle of the door be the same as they had left it when the went out initially. Can't think why some of those discrepancies have not been picked up by the police.

The End Is Nigh wrote:But there isn't a shred of physical evidence (or even intelligence) to support Abduction. Only the words of the parents and companions (I hesitate to use the word "friends").

Velvet wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:But there isn't a shred of physical evidence (or even intelligence) to support Abduction. Only the words of the parents and companions (I hesitate to use the word "friends").

Is it not possible for an 'abductor' to have gone through the patio door, into the children's room and opened the window/pulled up shutter incase someone disturbed them. Then picked up Madeleine and walked out through the front door which is the closest door exit from the children's room? Someone who thinks about an escape route before they enter could mean they know what they are doing, so they literally could have been in and out in minutes. Of course I not saying there wouldnt be but tell me what evidence you would expect to see if someone came in how I explained above?

Velvet wrote:

dazedandconfused wrote:

Velvet wrote:

kitti wrote:You don't become neutral or a fence sitter after 5 years unless your have an agenda.

And what would my agenda be? I have no agenda but do not categorically believe either way she was abducted/killed. Does that make me a bad person? A pro? A troll? No I'm someone with an open mind to what could have happened to Madeleine. I have had conversations on here about the dogs, where I originally thought they were wrong, and after discussing it and actually looking into them in more depth I cannot justify them being wrong. At the same time I do not see how a body could have been so well hidden in a country that they didn't particularly know very well. Forgive me if I don't fully agree with everyones opinions on here, however it makes me no more right or wrong on this subject than anyone else.

If you're leaning more towards an abductor, do you seriously think that Madeleine may still be alive? If not there is masses of scope for concealment of a body - cliffs, the sea, roadworks in town - all could be used both by someone within the group, or someone totally unconnected to them. Sadly the dogs have indicated that someone bled and died in the apartment and as there seems to be only one person who has gone missing from it, it seems to me that there's very little likelihood of Madeleine still being alive but I would love to be proved wrong and to hear that she's safe and well.

I do not believe she is alive, like yourself I would love to be proven wrong but statistically she died pretty much within the first few hours IF there was an abduction.( If my memory serves me right on children abductions.) I'm not certain she was abducted, like you said the dogs findings only really point to Madeleine. However there is the possibility that someone did walk in and take her, so I won't rule it out.

AnnaEsse wrote:

Velvet wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:But there isn't a shred of physical evidence (or even intelligence) to support Abduction. Only the words of the parents and companions (I hesitate to use the word "friends").

Is it not possible for an 'abductor' to have gone through the patio door, into the children's room and opened the window/pulled up shutter incase someone disturbed them. Then picked up Madeleine and walked out through the front door which is the closest door exit from the children's room? Someone who thinks about an escape route before they enter could mean they know what they are doing, so they literally could have been in and out in minutes. Of course I not saying there wouldnt be but tell me what evidence you would expect to see if someone came in how I explained above?

Velvet, I have sent you a private message.

Claudia79 wrote:

Velvet wrote:

dazedandconfused wrote:

Velvet wrote:

kitti wrote:You don't become neutral or a fence sitter after 5 years unless your have an agenda.

And what would my agenda be? I have no agenda but do not categorically believe either way she was abducted/killed. Does that make me a bad person? A pro? A troll? No I'm someone with an open mind to what could have happened to Madeleine. I have had conversations on here about the dogs, where I originally thought they were wrong, and after discussing it and actually looking into them in more depth I cannot justify them being wrong. At the same time I do not see how a body could have been so well hidden in a country that they didn't particularly know very well. Forgive me if I don't fully agree with everyones opinions on here, however it makes me no more right or wrong on this subject than anyone else.

If you're leaning more towards an abductor, do you seriously think that Madeleine may still be alive? If not there is masses of scope for concealment of a body - cliffs, the sea, roadworks in town - all could be used both by someone within the group, or someone totally unconnected to them. Sadly the dogs have indicated that someone bled and died in the apartment and as there seems to be only one person who has gone missing from it, it seems to me that there's very little likelihood of Madeleine still being alive but I would love to be proved wrong and to hear that she's safe and well.

I do not believe she is alive, like yourself I would love to be proven wrong but statistically she died pretty much within the first few hours IF there was an abduction.( If my memory serves me right on children abductions.) I'm not certain she was abducted, like you said the dogs findings only really point to Madeleine. However there is the possibility that someone did walk in and take her, so I won't rule it out.

Lots of things can't be ruled out. I haven't ruled out alien abduction either.

Velvet wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Velvet wrote:

dazedandconfused wrote:

Velvet wrote:

And what would my agenda be? I have no agenda but do not categorically believe either way she was abducted/killed. Does that make me a bad person? A pro? A troll? No I'm someone with an open mind to what could have happened to Madeleine. I have had conversations on here about the dogs, where I originally thought they were wrong, and after discussing it and actually looking into them in more depth I cannot justify them being wrong. At the same time I do not see how a body could have been so well hidden in a country that they didn't particularly know very well. Forgive me if I don't fully agree with everyones opinions on here, however it makes me no more right or wrong on this subject than anyone else.

If you're leaning more towards an abductor, do you seriously think that Madeleine may still be alive? If not there is masses of scope for concealment of a body - cliffs, the sea, roadworks in town - all could be used both by someone within the group, or someone totally unconnected to them. Sadly the dogs have indicated that someone bled and died in the apartment and as there seems to be only one person who has gone missing from it, it seems to me that there's very little likelihood of Madeleine still being alive but I would love to be proved wrong and to hear that she's safe and well.

I do not believe she is alive, like yourself I would love to be proven wrong but statistically she died pretty much within the first few hours IF there was an abduction.( If my memory serves me right on children abductions.) I'm not certain she was abducted, like you said the dogs findings only really point to Madeleine. However there is the possibility that someone did walk in and take her, so I won't rule it out.

Lots of things can't be ruled out. I haven't ruled out alien abduction either.

So the abduction theory can't be ruled out?

Velvet wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:But there isn't a shred of physical evidence (or even intelligence) to support Abduction. Only the words of the parents and companions (I hesitate to use the word "friends").

Is it not possible for an 'abductor' to have gone through the patio door, into the children's room and opened the window/pulled up shutter incase someone disturbed them. Then picked up Madeleine and walked out through the front door which is the closest door exit from the children's room? Someone who thinks about an escape route before they enter could mean they know what they are doing, so they literally could have been in and out in minutes. Of course I not saying there wouldnt be but tell me what evidence you would expect to see if someone came in how I explained above?

The End Is Nigh wrote:

Velvet wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:But there isn't a shred of physical evidence (or even intelligence) to support Abduction. Only the words of the parents and companions (I hesitate to use the word "friends").

Is it not possible for an 'abductor' to have gone through the patio door, into the children's room and opened the window/pulled up shutter incase someone disturbed them. Then picked up Madeleine and walked out through the front door which is the closest door exit from the children's room? Someone who thinks about an escape route before they enter could mean they know what they are doing, so they literally could have been in and out in minutes. Of course I not saying there wouldnt be but tell me what evidence you would expect to see if someone came in how I explained above?

The Abduction concept has a dedicated debate here https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t19102-could-there-have-been-an-abductor


Why not give your hypothesis an airing?

Claudia79 wrote:

Velvet wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Velvet wrote:

dazedandconfused wrote:

If you're leaning more towards an abductor, do you seriously think that Madeleine may still be alive? If not there is masses of scope for concealment of a body - cliffs, the sea, roadworks in town - all could be used both by someone within the grou

p, or someone totally unconnected to them. Sadly the dogs have indicated that someone bled and died in the apartment and as there seems to be only one person who has gone missing from it, it seems to me that there's very little likelihood of Madeleine still being alive but I would love to be proved wrong and to hear that she's safe and well.

I do not believe she is alive, like yourself I would love to be proven wrong but statistically she died pretty much within the first few hours IF there was an abduction.( If my memory serves me right on children abductions.) I'm not certain she was abducted, like you said the dogs findings only really point to Madeleine. However there is the possibility that someone did walk in and take her, so I won't rule it out.

Lots of things can't be ruled out. I haven't ruled out alien abduction either.

So the abduction theory can't be ruled out?

Nope. Not 100%. Nor alien abduction. Nor spontaneous human combustion. And I still think my last two options are as likely as the one you mention in your question. Elvis can still be alive too.

Velvet wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:But there isn't a shred of physical evidence (or even intelligence) to support Abduction. Only the words of the parents and companions (I hesitate to use the word "friends").

Is it not possible for an 'abductor' to have gone through the patio door, into the children's room and opened the window/pulled up shutter incase someone disturbed them. Then picked up Madeleine and walked out through the front door which is the closest door exit from the children's room? Someone who thinks about an escape route before they enter could mean they know what they are doing, so they literally could have been in and out in minutes. Of course I not saying there wouldnt be but tell me what evidence you would expect to see if someone came in how I explained above?

Velvet wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Velvet wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Velvet wrote:

I do not believe she is alive, like yourself I would love to be proven wrong but statistically she died pretty much within the first few hours IF there was an abduction.( If my memory serves me right on children abductions.) I'm not certain she was abducted, like you said the dogs findings only really point to Madeleine. However there is the possibility that someone did walk in and take her, so I won't rule it out.

Lots of things can't be ruled out. I haven't ruled out alien abduction either.

So the abduction theory can't be ruled out?

Nope. Not 100%. Nor alien abduction. Nor spontaneous human combustion. And I still think my last two options are as likely as the one you mention in your question. Elvis can still be alive too.

So the chances of the Mccanns genuinely having there child really abducted is the same chances as her being abducted by aliens? Hmm interesting and so very helpful to know!

gillyspot wrote:

Velvet wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:But there isn't a shred of physical evidence (or even intelligence) to support Abduction. Only the words of the parents and companions (I hesitate to use the word "friends").

Is it not possible for an 'abductor' to have gone through the patio door, into the children's room and opened the window/pulled up shutter incase someone disturbed them. Then picked up Madeleine and walked out through the front door which is the closest door exit from the children's room? Someone who thinks about an escape route before they enter could mean they know what they are doing, so they literally could have been in and out in minutes. Of course I not saying there wouldnt be but tell me what evidence you would expect to see if someone came in how I explained above?

Wouldn't the pulling up of the shutter & opening the window make it more likely a) the children will wake with the noise & the cold b) Make someone passing outside wonder why the window was open? c) waste valuable time. All "abductor" needed was to grab Madeleine & go straight out. It could be done in one minute flat.

Velvet wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:

Is it not possible for an 'abductor' to have gone through the patio door, into the children's room and opened the window/pulled up shutter incase someone disturbed them. Then picked up Madeleine and walked out through the front door which is the closest door exit from the children's room? Someone who thinks about an escape route before they enter could mean they know what they are doing, so they literally could have been in and out in minutes. Of course I not saying there wouldnt be but tell me what evidence you would expect to see if someone came in how I explained above?

Claudia79 wrote:

Velvet wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Velvet wrote:

dazedandconfused wrote:

If you're leaning more towards an abductor, do you seriously think that Madeleine may still be alive? If not there is masses of scope for concealment of a body - cliffs, the sea, roadworks in town - all could be used both by someone within the group, or someone totally unconnected to them. Sadly the dogs have indicated that someone bled and died in the apartment and as there seems to be only one person who has gone missing from it, it seems to me that there's very little likelihood of Madeleine still being alive but I would love to be proved wrong and to hear that she's safe and well.

I do not believe she is alive, like yourself I would love to be proven wrong but statistically she died pretty much within the first few hours IF there was an abduction.( If my memory serves me right on children abductions.) I'm not certain she was abducted, like you said the dogs findings only really point to Madeleine. However there is the possibility that someone did walk in and take her, so I won't rule it out.

Lots of things can't be ruled out. I haven't ruled out alien abduction either.

So the abduction theory can't be ruled out?

Nope. Not 100%. Nor alien abduction. Nor spontaneous human combustion. And I still think my last two options are as likely as the one you mention in your question. Elvis can still be alive too.

dazedandconfused wrote:I forgot to say that those shutters make a hell of a noise when they're raised and lowered. As they were dining so close by and it was out of season, the noise would have surely reached the diners, if we're going with the abduction theory and ignoring the dogs' indications. Leaving so many small children alone, they would have been on the alert for any tiny sign that they might be needed back at their apartments.

tigger wrote:Velvet: re your a) It's on record that those particular shutters make a lot of noise when rolled up or down. They're metal shutters for a start and the mechanism - the ratchet and so on, also makes quite a lot of noise. I've had shutters like that in France.